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A Song of Ice and Fire - Here Be Spoilers. Book People! Discuss the TV Show Here!

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Posts

  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh man. Had a nice chat w/ the wife over dinner, asked what she thought of last night's episode after some time to reflect...
    book 2/3
    ...when I mentioned that many denizens of the internet are threatening to leave the series after Ned's execution, she found that ridiculous. The book has been written that way for a long time, she said. Then she drops this lovely nugget: "Plus, I'm sure George makes sure that Joffery gets what's coming to him. I mean, yeah...I guess if he's not brutally murdered within the next season I'll be...pretty upset."

    This is going to be so much fun.

    ...actually, which happens first? RW or Joff's comeuppance?
    Red Wedding.
    Joffrey's murder was necessary after that. Without Joffrey's death, Storm of Storms would have destroyed my ability to ever care about another human being again.

    Hachface on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh man. Had a nice chat w/ the wife over dinner, asked what she thought of last night's episode after some time to reflect...
    book 2/3
    ...when I mentioned that many denizens of the internet are threatening to leave the series after Ned's execution, she found that ridiculous. The book has been written that way for a long time, she said. Then she drops this lovely nugget: "Plus, I'm sure George makes sure that Joffery gets what's coming to him. I mean, yeah...I guess if he's not brutally murdered within the next season I'll be...pretty upset."

    This is going to be so much fun.

    ...actually, which happens first? RW or Joff's comeuppance?

    massive book 3 spoilers
    Joff dies at his own wedding which is after the red wedding (and also after Sansa and Tyrion's wedding)

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AvicusAvicus regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    valiance wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Shae's characterization in the TV series doesn't match the image of her I had from the books. I think I actually like TV Shae better.

    Characterization I like better on the TV show, but lookswise I like my imaginary Shae. Unlike Sean Bean, who was totally different from my imagined Ned Stark but instantly replaced him in my head forever.

    also they missed a huge opportunity to ALL BOOK SPOILERS
    foreshadow R&L by not doing the tower of joy and promised me ned stuff. the arya and baelor thing, while cool, is not nearly as plot integral as R&L. and as I reread the series, the more I realise how important foreshadowing is. disappointed they took that out. it sort of undercuts all the work GRRM did in interweaving those threads and hints.

    Like people have already said it wouldn't have made much sense and it would have been foreshadowing things very far into the future. I'm sure they will find other ways to include the scene later in the series if it is necessary.

    And you never know, it may have been removed because it is a complete red herring!

    Avicus on
    stephen_coop.gifkim_coop.gifscott_guitar.gif
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    This is a quote from the TV thread ... but I didn't want to get in trouble over there, so I bring it here ...

    Balefuego wrote: »
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I think it seems pretty obvious that Tywin Lannister knows about Joffreys parentage. He's interested in establishing a "dynasty that will last a thousand years". I suppose that it'll be easy enough to recognize Joffrey as a Lion later on when Robert has been dead a while by just bribing everyone else or killing Roberts family.

    I think you are making a bit of a leap here

    I am ... like 300 pages into the 3rd book, and I still haven't figured out if Tywin knows about this, let alone what his opinion on it is ... I get a few vague impressions about how he'd deal with it, but it wasn't spelled out or anything.

    Book 3 spoiler.
    That council scene with Tywin telling Tyrion he has to marry Sansa was golden though ... can't wait to see this resolved.

    TheBigEasy on
  • the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Hachface wrote: »
    Oh man. Had a nice chat w/ the wife over dinner, asked what she thought of last night's episode after some time to reflect...
    book 2/3
    ...when I mentioned that many denizens of the internet are threatening to leave the series after Ned's execution, she found that ridiculous. The book has been written that way for a long time, she said. Then she drops this lovely nugget: "Plus, I'm sure George makes sure that Joffery gets what's coming to him. I mean, yeah...I guess if he's not brutally murdered within the next season I'll be...pretty upset."

    This is going to be so much fun.

    ...actually, which happens first? RW or Joff's comeuppance?
    Red Wedding.
    Joffrey's murder was necessary after that. Without Joffrey's death, Storm of Storms would have destroyed my ability to ever care about another human being again.

    Well then...guess I'll need to literally strap her to the couch to make sure she keeps watching for that payoff.

    the Togfather on
    The night is dark and full of terrors.
    twit feed
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    This is a quote from the TV thread ... but I didn't want to get in trouble over there, so I bring it here ...

    Balefuego wrote: »
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I think it seems pretty obvious that Tywin Lannister knows about Joffreys parentage. He's interested in establishing a "dynasty that will last a thousand years". I suppose that it'll be easy enough to recognize Joffrey as a Lion later on when Robert has been dead a while by just bribing everyone else or killing Roberts family.

    I think you are making a bit of a leap here

    I am ... like 300 pages into the 3rd book, and I still haven't figured out if Tywin knows about this, let alone what his opinion on it is ... I get a few vague impressions about how he'd deal with it, but it wasn't spelled out or anything.

    Book 3 spoiler.
    That council scene with Tywin telling Tyrion he has to marry Sansa was golden though ... can't wait to see this resolved.


    Pretty sure that so far
    Tywin has no idea, especially since Cersei seems to mention on occassion how pissed he'd be if he knew, and very early in the first book Tyrion quips to her "did you think I was as blind as father?"

    hailthefish on
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning regular Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah I can't imagine he knows.
    From Tywin's point of view, he's already won when the series begins. He won when Robert married Cersei. His daughter is queen, his grandson will be king, the kingdom is completely in debt to his house. Then Cersei's spitefulness and lack of impulse control threatens to destroy everything Tywin's worked for. It's hard to imagine he would let that pass if he knew. I'm pretty sure he believes the twincest is all an invention by his political opponents.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • DracomicronDracomicron regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Bring back the days of Royal proclamations and shit. I bet Robert would have had a right proper inch.

    I'm pretty sure he had about six or seven of them.

    Dracomicron on
    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • KhaczorKhaczor regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm going through book 4 now and I have a greater appreciation of the Dorne chapters now that I've gotten a MUCH better handle on all the houses in Westeros and how they interact with each other.

    Khaczor on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Khaczor wrote: »
    I'm going through book 4 now and I have a greater appreciation of the Dorne chapters now that I've gotten a MUCH better handle on all the houses in Westeros and how they interact with each other.

    Re-reading is so helpful. You would have to have the memory of God to catch everything on a first readthrough.

    Hachface on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    That and the first time through it's hard to tell what's important and what's not, so I tended to gloss over stuff I thought was just :words: only to find out later it had bearing on the story.

    hailthefish on
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    My biggest problem was (and still is, since I am not finished) keeping all the names straight ... GRRM uses a metric fuckton of secondary characters, and it always reads as if you are supposed to know who that is.

    TheBigEasy on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    And quite a few names get reused!

    hailthefish on
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Random Question: If I pre-order Dance for Kindle, do I get charged now or on July 12th?

    (It feels so weird to jump mid-series to e-book...)

    Doctor Detroit on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Think you get charged now.

    hailthefish on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    This is a quote from the TV thread ... but I didn't want to get in trouble over there, so I bring it here ...

    Balefuego wrote: »
    Demiurge wrote: »
    I think it seems pretty obvious that Tywin Lannister knows about Joffreys parentage. He's interested in establishing a "dynasty that will last a thousand years". I suppose that it'll be easy enough to recognize Joffrey as a Lion later on when Robert has been dead a while by just bribing everyone else or killing Roberts family.

    I think you are making a bit of a leap here

    I am ... like 300 pages into the 3rd book, and I still haven't figured out if Tywin knows about this, let alone what his opinion on it is ... I get a few vague impressions about how he'd deal with it, but it wasn't spelled out or anything.

    Book 3 spoiler.
    That council scene with Tywin telling Tyrion he has to marry Sansa was golden though ... can't wait to see this resolved.

    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TomantaTomanta regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    And quite a few names get reused!

    Just be thankful the series doesn't center around the Freys!

    Tomanta on
  • metaghostmetaghost regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    But the books are also never from Tywin's perspective.

    Series spoilers -
    I think it could be argued that Tywin's distaste for Jaime's decision to join the Kingsguard is possibly an indication that he at least suspects the truth, though he frames his distaste as being wholly about Jaime's unwillingness to maintain the Lannister name and remain heir to Casterley Rock. I felt like there was something about Jaime's conversation with his... Aunt? in book 4 that suggested things hadn't been so secret, though that may have just been a reflection of Tywin's death allowing the Aunt to speak more freely.

    metaghost on
    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    metaghost wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    But the books are also never from Tywin's perspective.

    Series spoilers -
    I think it could be argued that Tywin's distaste for Jaime's decision to join the Kingsguard is possibly an indication that he at least suspects the truth, though he frames his distaste as being wholly about Jaime's unwillingness to maintain the Lannister name and remain heir to Casterley Rock. I felt like there was something about Jaime's conversation with his... Aunt? in book 4 that suggested things hadn't been so secret, though that may have just been a reflection of Tywin's death allowing the Aunt to speak more freely.

    But
    didn't Jaime join the Kingsguard before Cersei went to King's Landing? I don't remember how it all played out, but he was obviously part of the Guard before she married Robert.

    Doctor Detroit on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    metaghost wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    But the books are also never from Tywin's perspective.

    Series spoilers -
    I think it could be argued that Tywin's distaste for Jaime's decision to join the Kingsguard is possibly an indication that he at least suspects the truth, though he frames his distaste as being wholly about Jaime's unwillingness to maintain the Lannister name and remain heir to Casterley Rock. I felt like there was something about Jaime's conversation with his... Aunt? in book 4 that suggested things hadn't been so secret, though that may have just been a reflection of Tywin's death allowing the Aunt to speak more freely.

    But
    didn't Jaime join the Kingsguard before Cersei went to King's Landing? I don't remember how it all played out, but he was obviously part of the Guard before she married Robert.

    She was going to go to court to be a lady and learn about the court and stuff (like Ned wanted for Arya) but when Jamie decided to join the Kingsguard, Tywin changed his mind and Cersei stayed in Casterly Rock, or something like that.

    I highly suspect Tywin didn't know because he didn't want to know.

    hailthefish on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    metaghost wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    But the books are also never from Tywin's perspective.

    Series spoilers -
    I think it could be argued that Tywin's distaste for Jaime's decision to join the Kingsguard is possibly an indication that he at least suspects the truth, though he frames his distaste as being wholly about Jaime's unwillingness to maintain the Lannister name and remain heir to Casterley Rock. I felt like there was something about Jaime's conversation with his... Aunt? in book 4 that suggested things hadn't been so secret, though that may have just been a reflection of Tywin's death allowing the Aunt to speak more freely.
    In book 4, Kevan makes it apparent that he knew about it, but again it's implied that Tywin was either unwilling or unable to see the truth.

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Reverend_ChaosReverend_Chaos Suit Up! Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Ah they were apparently also in the stands at the tournament

    Myrcella-Tommen-Barristan-game-of-thrones-21866168-1024-576.png

    I transferred this from the TV Show thread because I didn't want to open up a can of worms that would lead to people who have read the book guessing on something the show (as far as I know) did not announce

    Who is the girl at the bottom left of this picture....she is sitting awfully close to the King's children. I am guessing she is Maergery Tyrell? I can't even remember if any other Tyrell's were at the Tournament other than Loras....but looking at the color, and what looks like a flower on her dress, that was my guess. Anyone?

    I haven't re-read the series in a couple of years, so I am due to re-read it, and I am fighting the urge to re-read it in preparation of Dance coming out, since then I'll have to wait to read the new book. ARGH!!

    Reverend_Chaos on
    “Think of me like Yoda, but instead of being little and green I wear suits and I'm awesome. I'm your bro—I'm Broda!”
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It can't be Margeary Tyrell because she's not in King's Landing, she's still at Highgarden

    pretty sure it's just a random extra/lady

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TarantioTarantio regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Yeah, I don't think they cast anyone for speaking roles in later seasons without explicitly showing them this season.

    Tarantio on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I wouldn't be surprised if they dont bother casting her next year either. It makes more sense to just wait for season 3

    Balefuego on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    RE Jamie
    The starks beating the shit out of him and breaking his hands so he can never wield a sword again would be enough for me. And if he publicly admits that Joffrey is his son then I'll even have him over for dinner.
    :D :D :D :D

    hailthefish on
  • dojangodojango regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Speaking of Margarey Tyrell, I was wondering...
    Major Book 3/4 Spoilers
    So, is Margarey involved at all in Jeoffery's poisoning? Because if her grandma did it, wouldn't she have to be forewarned to avoid drinking from Jeoffery's winecup once the poision was introduced? I'll need to reread the scene again, but if she was aware of what might happen... Well, that would be a different aspect of that character.

    dojango on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    RE Jamie
    The starks beating the shit out of him and breaking his hands so he can never wield a sword again would be enough for me. And if he publicly admits that Joffrey is his son then I'll even have him over for dinner.
    :D :D :D :D
    Yeah but it loses all sense of satisfaction... once he becomes the coolest character in the book.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Exactly.

    hailthefish on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    metaghost wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    I always felt like the books were fairly blatant about the fact that Tywin didn't know.

    But the books are also never from Tywin's perspective.

    Series spoilers -
    I think it could be argued that Tywin's distaste for Jaime's decision to join the Kingsguard is possibly an indication that he at least suspects the truth, though he frames his distaste as being wholly about Jaime's unwillingness to maintain the Lannister name and remain heir to Casterley Rock. I felt like there was something about Jaime's conversation with his... Aunt? in book 4 that suggested things hadn't been so secret, though that may have just been a reflection of Tywin's death allowing the Aunt to speak more freely.

    But
    didn't Jaime join the Kingsguard before Cersei went to King's Landing? I don't remember how it all played out, but he was obviously part of the Guard before she married Robert.
    Jaime joined the Kingsguard so he wouldn't get married off and so he could stay near Cersei.

    This pissed Tywin off something fierce because Jaime was always his chosen heir.

    shryke on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 regular Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    I just started looking at the map, and I can't figure out why they had to cross at the twins, why not just plan ahead and go around?

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • galenbladegalenblade regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I just started looking at the map, and I can't figure out why they had to cross at the twins, why not just plan ahead and go around?

    That's where Greywater Watch is, which IIRC is kind of boggy and marshy. Plus on the west side of the Neck is a forest, which could be hell to get through quickly. Plus they were in a hurry to make the diversion work.

    galenblade on
    linksig.jpg
  • DracomicronDracomicron regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I just started looking at the map, and I can't figure out why they had to cross at the twins, why not just plan ahead and go around?

    It's really terrible terrain, if I recall correctly. Swamps and such. Not good for troop movements.

    Dracomicron on
    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • jammujammu Never-Ending, Never Alone Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    And he wanted to get Frey's men to join his army. Northern army got ~4000 more men from that deal.

    jammu on
    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • CristoCristo regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    But guys, Fizban just really doesn't get it.

    Please explain in more depth.

    Cristo on
    Unlucky wrote: »
    So, after having read all of his stuff, Pony's officially my hero now. I wish I could be that callous towards humanity.
  • DracomicronDracomicron regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Cristo wrote: »
    But guys, Fizban just really doesn't get it.

    Please explain in more depth.

    As trolly as Fizban often is, it is a legitimate question that people may have been thinking if they don't remember the books very well.

    Also not terribly likely to cause arguments.

    He may prove me wrong.

    Dracomicron on
    Gary Gygax wrote:
    ''The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.''
  • metaghostmetaghost regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    RE: Looking at the map and asking questions of routes and whatnot -

    Honestly, I just don't look at the maps as being particularly useful in terms of solving these questions. In the later books, it always sounds like there are infinitely more large riverways than the map really suggests that completely encumber travel off of the King's Road, though I suppose that's because it's apparently typhoon season from A Storm of Swords > A Feast for Crows. But still, I just don't bother trying to figure out why people travel how they do, and trust that these imaginary people do in fact know their way around an imaginary landscape.

    metaghost on
    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • Modern ManModern Man regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    You can't just move an army wherever you want, especially in a medieval setting. The Twins sit on an important trade route, so there are likely roads that lead to the castles and further south.

    Fantasy writers tend to be awful at dealing with the logistics of medieval armies. Their armies tend to be too big, too fast and too effective. Throughout most of human history, a significant majority of every army was pretty useless for anything other than terrorizing enemy civilians and MAYBE defending in place. They were poorly trained, poorly organized and tended to fall apart when they ran into real opposition (witness, for example, what typically happened to much larger Persian armies when they ran into smaller, but highly trained Greek units that weren't afraid to actually attack their enemies and fight).

    Robb needed to move his army across roads and bridges because if he started taking them through marshes or heavy woods, many of them would just wander off and go back home. It is very difficult to keep a medieval army made up heavily of peasant levies in the field for any significant period of time.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The Septons speech in AFFC gives you a good idea of the kind of ridiculousness inherent in a medieval army.

    shryke on
  • hailthefishhailthefish regular Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    From the TV thread, the best GIF ever.

    2jep5yb.gif

    hailthefish on
This discussion has been closed.