I guess some people forget the enormous physical undertaking associated with trying to do a global launch. Just so you don't forget: Australia is halfway across the fucking world. It ain't easy to just "poof", have servers in Australia. Guess I'm saying just cut EA/BW a break here.
I guess some people forget the enormous physical undertaking associated with trying to do a global launch. Just so you don't forget: Australia is halfway across the fucking world. It ain't easy to just "poof", have servers in Australia. Guess I'm saying just cut EA/BW a break here.
We wouldn't expect our own servers. We're used to playing on American servers. We've adapted to 500ms pings by evolving our playstyles to take the delay into account so that we aren't really bothered by it :P
Long story short: It's not that they don't want to sell the product to you. It's that if they officially sold it, they would probably be legally liable to a certain quality of service, local customer support number, etc. that they aren't offering.
So the alternative is the "you can play if you want to, we just can't 'officially' sell the game to you *wink*"
I have a feeling they also are a bit concerned about launching too big all at the same time. Yeah, you're setting people that aren't from the country of choice behind the curve of playing a couple of months, but you also get to control population a bit more. People who potentially drop after the first month free up space. It could be a big cost strategy that could sound pretty dick but be really financially sensible.
Then again, if you let those other people hear/read about the game months in advance, it may put them off to trying it if they hear people complaining about stuff. You could potentially lose out on a lot of revenue as well...
Probably depends how much confidence you have in the game as a developer, which is a complete guess. It seems like game companies tend to overrate how good their game is continuously, so they probably think that early adopters will lead to an early majority instead of the early adopters and majority being tide into the first couple of weeks like most MMOs.
I guess some people forget the enormous physical undertaking associated with trying to do a global launch. Just so you don't forget: Australia is halfway across the fucking world. It ain't easy to just "poof", have servers in Australia. Guess I'm saying just cut EA/BW a break here.
We wouldn't expect our own servers. We're used to playing on American servers. We've adapted to 500ms pings by evolving our playstyles to take the delay into account so that we aren't really bothered by it :P
fortunately this option will be there for you
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I thought Rift was going to be a solid 1M or so MMO simply based on the extremely high level of polish and well run launch. It was a fun game that was essentially bug-free and smooth running from day 1.
Then they forgot to secure their webservers and lost half their customer base in a week.
Wait what? Can you elaborate on that? I never heard about this fallout.
I thought Rift was going to be a solid 1M or so MMO simply based on the extremely high level of polish and well run launch. It was a fun game that was essentially bug-free and smooth running from day 1.
Then they forgot to secure their webservers and lost half their customer base in a week.
Well then lets hope the new sw:tor build fix a few problems. At last the CE has a authenticator. :P
[...]
Concerns
OK, so three concerns because I really don't know how they'll play out...
My first concern is the launcher. Not the issues with downloading and installing because I'm sure you'll fix those, but with security. The game seems to have a two-step authentication process in which the launcher executable is responsible for authentication which it then passes to the game client executable.
Rift used a similar technology and it opened the door to severe hacking as soon as the game was released. The Rift hackers figured out how to log into peoples' accounts given only their account ID which was readily available on the forums. They didn't need email address. They didn't need password. They just needed one number they could easily get to (or randomly generate) and the knowledge they gained by reverse-engineering the authentication token passed between launcher and game client.
.
.
My guess is, less of a Bioware fuckup, more of an EA fuckup.
Those asshats couldn't plan a beach party.
Depending on where you are, planning a beach party can be a challenge. In New England, we have these obnoxious things called greenhead flies during the July/August months. They bite you. Not like a pinch, but like a chunk of skin removed. You basically have to get lucky at planning anything during this season.
Also, AlterSWTOR constantly just reposting BetaCake is pretty pathetic. Wish they'd get some of their own material. Even the extra screenies they are posting today was already linked to yesterday.
Don't want to beat this to death, but any company maintains the right to chose where their product is available for purchase. Bioware has no legal obligation to distribute ToR in any channel it doesn't want to. If, at launch, this includes those in foreign countries, that's their choice.
However, they are in no way blocking you from actually buying, nor playing the game. You can still play the game in any country, so long as you find a distribution channel to purchase the game.
There's no way it will hit WoW's 12 million subscriber mark, but that doesn't mean its going to be stuck at 500k. I think there's a real possibility that it could hit 3 to 4 million users, but I don't think it will sustain that. The reason I think this is because I know a number of people who have never played an MMO, but did play and love KotoR and want more of that. I think these people will buy in temporarily and will artificially boost the TOR subscriber base.
I think at some point in its first year it will reach that 3 to 4 million mark, but don't think it will sustain those numbers. I expect year 1 to boast numbers in the 3 to 4 million mark. Years 2 and 3 to be between 1 and 2 million subscribers, and then settle out between 750k and 1 million in its later years.
Never say never my friend. And when it comes to predicting a games success, let alone potential subscriber numbers 3 years in advance, as hard fact: just don't; it makes you look silly. Games have been known to succeed (and fail) when people have said otherwise. But who am I kidding, we don't all have magical balls that allow us to see into the future like you do. You should give me one so I know which stocks to invest in when the US stock market crashes (again).
The best advice for most reasonable folk here is simply to "wait and see".
I will enjoy the game and that's all that really matters anyways.
I absolutely hope they prove me wrong. I would love nothing more than for TOR to blow up big and have WoW type success. My love of Star Wars and Bioware games proves that. I just tend to be pessimistic so that I can be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed.
Oh god I'm dodging all the videos, almost time to go into media blackout. I just have to find out if there will be an IP blocking deal or what. I just don't trust them now.
The point isn't pessimism or optimism or whatever, it's just that making predictions about subscriber numbers three years out is sort of dumb
I'll disagree with that. In business you have to be able to project what kind of profit and where your revenue is going to come years out from release. To do anything else leaves a giant opening for failure and for your company to crash and burn. EA has obviously already done this (which they showed when they said they only need a sustained 500,000 subscribers for TOR to be profitable).
Why can't we, as fans, do the same thing? Hell, given that EA is a publicly traded company, if anyone was going to invest in EA, it would be only due diligence to look at the market, look at market trends, and to work out a long term view as to how TOR is going to shape up, since it has the potential to be a massive, sustained revenue stream for the company.
We can't do that because we don't have the details of the game. They do that because they can project future releases for the game based on projections for how long it takes them to make the content.
This is like saying AoC is totally going to steal subs from wow because it's a gritty, more realistic wow. I mean, look at all the leaks that came from the beta. levels 1-20.... look at all that polish. (not Polish). In 3 years, it'll probably have 3-5 mill subs and at least 1 expac.
Maybe with an open beta, and some more comprehensive reviews out, we could make some informed projections. But staring at screenshots and poorly worded leaks isn't informed.
Oh god I'm dodging all the videos, almost time to go into media blackout. I just have to find out if there will be an IP blocking deal or what. I just don't trust them now.
No ip blocks atm and if the add one, use a vpn service and ignore it. :P
The point isn't pessimism or optimism or whatever, it's just that making predictions about subscriber numbers three years out is sort of dumb
I'll disagree with that. In business you have to be able to project what kind of profit and where your revenue is going to come years out from release. To do anything else leaves a giant opening for failure and for your company to crash and burn. EA has obviously already done this (which they showed when they said they only need a sustained 500,000 subscribers for TOR to be profitable).
Why can't we, as fans, do the same thing? Hell, given that EA is a publicly traded company, if anyone was going to invest in EA, it would be only due diligence to look at the market, look at market trends, and to work out a long term view as to how TOR is going to shape up, since it has the potential to be a massive, sustained revenue stream for the company.
my god is it getting tired for people in these threads to spout of about how much they know about the business of mmos
I'm willing to bet you have access to approximately zero percent of the market data available to EA (to whatever extent that data can even be reasonably used to make a three year prediction)
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The point isn't pessimism or optimism or whatever, it's just that making predictions about subscriber numbers three years out is sort of dumb
I'll disagree with that. In business you have to be able to project what kind of profit and where your revenue is going to come years out from release. To do anything else leaves a giant opening for failure and for your company to crash and burn. EA has obviously already done this (which they showed when they said they only need a sustained 500,000 subscribers for TOR to be profitable).
Why can't we, as fans, do the same thing? Hell, given that EA is a publicly traded company, if anyone was going to invest in EA, it would be only due diligence to look at the market, look at market trends, and to work out a long term view as to how TOR is going to shape up, since it has the potential to be a massive, sustained revenue stream for the company.
my god is it getting tired for people in these threads to spout of about how much they know about the business of mmos
I'm willing to bet you have access to approximately zero percent of the market data available to EA (to whatever extent that data can even be reasonably used to make a three year prediction)
Well, duh. Of course I have what amounts to 0% of the marketing data available to EA. They're a freaking mega corporation with an entire department who get paid for doing this kind of stuff. They probably have dozens of studies done on the market research for TOR.
What I have is the recent history of MMOs, both large properties and new IPs, and general attitudes of the mass public toward TOR. Of MMOs released in the last two years, only Aion has sustained a Multi-Million subscriber base for any length of time, and a large portion of that was Korean. History shows that most MMOs are sustained at sub-1 million subscribers, and even some of the biggest properties not named WoW, such as City of Heroes and Lord of the Rings Online were at sub 250k subscribers before going free to play.
My guesses (and yes, what I posted were guesses) were based on how new MMOs have done in recent times with a boost for being a big name property by a big name developer.
Pazaak is a terrible game and they should stop trying to shove card games into RPGs.
I agree that Pazaak was pretty weak in KotOR. I also agree that I didn't like the card game implementation in Final Fantasy 8 or 9. But I think if a company were to actually come up with a fun set of rules and make the game completely optional, its a good idea.
Collectibles within an MMO are a great way to keep people hooked. Just look at the vanity pets in WoW. I just wish the vanity pets had a little more to them. The ones that are scripted to shoot at each other are awesome and I wish Blizzard would've turned the whole thing into a self contained meta game.
You know that chess-type game that Artoo and Chewie were playing on the Falcon? The one with the holograms? A really cool meta game for TOR would be if they allowed you to collect hologram characters and battle each other on a board like that.
I agree. Pazak was terrible in KOTOR and so was Caravan in FO:NV.
At least if it's two player Pazaak and not one player versus the computer, you probably won't be cheated.
Or the computer will find a way to cheat you both, and you'll have someone with whom to commiserate.
JustinSane07 plays a +3, for a total of 20. JustinSane07 wins! JustinSane07's card morphs into a +5, for a total of 22. Busted! MuddBudd wins! Muddbudd receives 350 credits. MuddBudd's 350 credits morph into 350 ounces of Bantha shit.
Posts
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
We wouldn't expect our own servers. We're used to playing on American servers. We've adapted to 500ms pings by evolving our playstyles to take the delay into account so that we aren't really bothered by it :P
So the alternative is the "you can play if you want to, we just can't 'officially' sell the game to you *wink*"
Then again, if you let those other people hear/read about the game months in advance, it may put them off to trying it if they hear people complaining about stuff. You could potentially lose out on a lot of revenue as well...
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
fortunately this option will be there for you
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'm starting to rethink my allegiances to the Republic.
Steam - Wildschwein | The Backlog
Grappling Hook Showdown - Tumblr
Wait what? Can you elaborate on that? I never heard about this fallout.
ahaha
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
:^:
I do with the videos were higher res though, you can barely read the text.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Depending on where you are, planning a beach party can be a challenge. In New England, we have these obnoxious things called greenhead flies during the July/August months. They bite you. Not like a pinch, but like a chunk of skin removed. You basically have to get lucky at planning anything during this season.
But I digest....
It looks like they need to resize some text.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l_XJ7Xn1qkg/Ti4PUnym_wI/AAAAAAAAAOw/z9GtqrdI9Wc/s1600/aaa14xqg1.png
Look at the power crystal modifiers.
Also, AlterSWTOR constantly just reposting BetaCake is pretty pathetic. Wish they'd get some of their own material. Even the extra screenies they are posting today was already linked to yesterday.
Don't want to beat this to death, but any company maintains the right to chose where their product is available for purchase. Bioware has no legal obligation to distribute ToR in any channel it doesn't want to. If, at launch, this includes those in foreign countries, that's their choice.
However, they are in no way blocking you from actually buying, nor playing the game. You can still play the game in any country, so long as you find a distribution channel to purchase the game.
There's no story here.
I absolutely hope they prove me wrong. I would love nothing more than for TOR to blow up big and have WoW type success. My love of Star Wars and Bioware games proves that. I just tend to be pessimistic so that I can be pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Oceanic SWTOR Guild - Voidstalker Brigade
On rift I think it fell off due too it marketing where their not ashamed to say it a wow killer.
I'll disagree with that. In business you have to be able to project what kind of profit and where your revenue is going to come years out from release. To do anything else leaves a giant opening for failure and for your company to crash and burn. EA has obviously already done this (which they showed when they said they only need a sustained 500,000 subscribers for TOR to be profitable).
Why can't we, as fans, do the same thing? Hell, given that EA is a publicly traded company, if anyone was going to invest in EA, it would be only due diligence to look at the market, look at market trends, and to work out a long term view as to how TOR is going to shape up, since it has the potential to be a massive, sustained revenue stream for the company.
This is like saying AoC is totally going to steal subs from wow because it's a gritty, more realistic wow. I mean, look at all the leaks that came from the beta. levels 1-20.... look at all that polish. (not Polish). In 3 years, it'll probably have 3-5 mill subs and at least 1 expac.
Maybe with an open beta, and some more comprehensive reviews out, we could make some informed projections. But staring at screenshots and poorly worded leaks isn't informed.
I really don't want this to be World of Star Warscraft
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
But... this is "teh internets"... *sigh*
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
No ip blocks atm and if the add one, use a vpn service and ignore it. :P
Sith beta combat videos http://justswtor.blogspot.com/2011/07/sith-combat-videos-spoilers.html
Dark Horse Comic The Lost Suns (Old Republic) #2 preview http://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/Previews/17-774?page=0
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
my god is it getting tired for people in these threads to spout of about how much they know about the business of mmos
I'm willing to bet you have access to approximately zero percent of the market data available to EA (to whatever extent that data can even be reasonably used to make a three year prediction)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Well, duh. Of course I have what amounts to 0% of the marketing data available to EA. They're a freaking mega corporation with an entire department who get paid for doing this kind of stuff. They probably have dozens of studies done on the market research for TOR.
What I have is the recent history of MMOs, both large properties and new IPs, and general attitudes of the mass public toward TOR. Of MMOs released in the last two years, only Aion has sustained a Multi-Million subscriber base for any length of time, and a large portion of that was Korean. History shows that most MMOs are sustained at sub-1 million subscribers, and even some of the biggest properties not named WoW, such as City of Heroes and Lord of the Rings Online were at sub 250k subscribers before going free to play.
My guesses (and yes, what I posted were guesses) were based on how new MMOs have done in recent times with a boost for being a big name property by a big name developer.
I agree that Pazaak was pretty weak in KotOR. I also agree that I didn't like the card game implementation in Final Fantasy 8 or 9. But I think if a company were to actually come up with a fun set of rules and make the game completely optional, its a good idea.
Collectibles within an MMO are a great way to keep people hooked. Just look at the vanity pets in WoW. I just wish the vanity pets had a little more to them. The ones that are scripted to shoot at each other are awesome and I wish Blizzard would've turned the whole thing into a self contained meta game.
You know that chess-type game that Artoo and Chewie were playing on the Falcon? The one with the holograms? A really cool meta game for TOR would be if they allowed you to collect hologram characters and battle each other on a board like that.
At least if it's two player Pazaak and not one player versus the computer, you probably won't be cheated.
Or the computer will find a way to cheat you both, and you'll have someone with whom to commiserate.
JustinSane07 plays a +3, for a total of 20.
JustinSane07 wins!
JustinSane07's card morphs into a +5, for a total of 22. Busted!
MuddBudd wins!
Muddbudd receives 350 credits.
MuddBudd's 350 credits morph into 350 ounces of Bantha shit.
your penalty for trying to play pazaak is playing pazaak endlessly, forever
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This should be the next thread title.