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[SW:TOR]OMG PRE-ORDER OMG! (Wait Collector's Edition is $150? D:) Pre-Order Details in OP

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote:
    I'd be interested in learning in what country breaking a MMO beta NDA can result in fines or jail time

    the USA? they are the zaniest over sue you over anything, and retarded copyright laws etc.

    Jail time? Probably not. However, a monetary fine for "Breech of Contract"? Yeah, I can see that. The fact is that a court won't give a damn if your breach of an NDA was for a video game or for GE's latest jet fighter engine. You still broke a legal document and the penalties of said breach will be enforced.

    Most NDA's have a clause in them that says something along the lines of "If the undersign breaches this contract, X penalty will be assessed." Since someone broke the NDA contract, Bioware can enforce said penalty, and the courts will back Bioware up.

    But then Bioware would incur the time and cost to prosecute these people, which probably isn't worth either. Unless said NDA breakers were causing tangible harm to the company, but it's just posting scraps on the Internet. Unless there was some very specific penalty mentioned in the NDA, then it would be difficult and time consuming for a company to prove tangible loss as a result of the breach. Most of these things just say, "If you breach this contract, we'll kick you ass out of the beta tests and ban you from ever testing any of our games, affiliates games, or anyone else's we may be friends with..."

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I do think the whole invisibility-stealth thing is thoroughly tired and I wish games would stop including it

    I guess stealth relying on environmental conditions is too limiting for a game with environments as diverse as MMOs, but limited duration or restricted offensive abilities or really any kind of creativity at all would be welcome.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    and yeah, breaking an NDA (or whatever contract) is a tort, so jail time is pretty out of the question

    grounds for civil action, but it's vanishingly unlikely that bioware would actually pursue these sites for anything other than a takedown, and if they wanted to do that they'd just go at the webhost, not the person writing the entries.

    (especially since betacake et al provide some of the best prerelease marketing)

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote:
    AspectVoid wrote:
    I'd be interested in learning in what country breaking a MMO beta NDA can result in fines or jail time

    the USA? they are the zaniest over sue you over anything, and retarded copyright laws etc.

    Jail time? Probably not. However, a monetary fine for "Breech of Contract"? Yeah, I can see that. The fact is that a court won't give a damn if your breach of an NDA was for a video game or for GE's latest jet fighter engine. You still broke a legal document and the penalties of said breach will be enforced.

    Most NDA's have a clause in them that says something along the lines of "If the undersign breaches this contract, X penalty will be assessed." Since someone broke the NDA contract, Bioware can enforce said penalty, and the courts will back Bioware up.

    But then Bioware would incur the time and cost to prosecute these people, which probably isn't worth either. Unless said NDA breakers were causing tangible harm to the company, but it's just posting scraps on the Internet. Unless there was some very specific penalty mentioned in the NDA, then it would be difficult and time consuming for a company to prove tangible loss as a result of the breach. Most of these things just say, "If you breach this contract, we'll kick you ass out of the beta tests and ban you from ever testing any of our games, affiliates games, or anyone else's we may be friends with..."

    The question was "can result in fine or jail time" not "will result in fine or jail time." Unless there is a large group of people working together to circumvent the NDA that Bioware/EA can prosecute in a single lawsuit, then I don't see anything beyond banning coming from this, but it is a slim possibility.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    am0nam0n Registered User regular
    devCharles wrote:
    I think I'd be way more into a PVP server if permanent stealth classes didn't exist. My last PVP server experience was in Rift and 80% of the time I was attacked by the opposite faction, it was by a rogue stunlocking me and proceeding to 3 shot me to death. Could a better player managed that better? Probably. I wasn't a great PVPer, but it did put me off the experience a bit. That being said, I'm totally down for some RVR style PVP on a designated planet or something where you get bonuses for holding or taking areas. A much more involved Game of Towers would be nice with benefits beyond a buff and getting those benefits beyond just having more people of one faction in the zone.

    I liked how DAoC was early on (not sure how it changed). You could completely level to max. in non-contested areas. However, the RvR actually gave you incentives to go and capture targets.

    I rarely ventured out. I was quite content in carebear land. I've done PvP servers, even as a Rogue. Ultimately, I like playing the game at my pace. I'm more of a cooperative person. So, PvE it is for mE.

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I do think the whole invisibility-stealth thing is thoroughly tired and I wish games would stop including it

    I guess stealth relying on environmental conditions is too limiting for a game with environments as diverse as MMOs, but limited duration or restricted offensive abilities or really any kind of creativity at all would be welcome.

    Agree. HARD.

    Can we come up with some a "rogue" paradigm that doesn't involve completely invisibile stalkers, able to lock down single players long enough to kill them without fear of retribution? Remove this, and you remove an enourmous percentage of PvP griefing.

    EDIT: And on a larger note (and keep in mind I love PvP), let's put skills that completely remove the control of your character in that trash can, as well. Let's see if we can come up with something better than, "I hit one button, you run in a circle for 8 seconds, unable to do anything LOLZ!" forms of crowd control.

    ironzerg on
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    BeltaineBeltaine BOO BOO DOO DE DOORegistered User regular
    They could easily fix stealth by implementing environment variables.

    If you're in a wooded area with lots of brush, you should be able to sneak up on someone fairly easily.

    If you're on a dirt road in the middle of an open plain... not so much.

    Typically though, an MMO implementation of "stealth" is an on/off switch for the stealther and a spot check from the stealthee. which is a really lazy way of implementing stealth.

    XdDBi4F.jpg
    PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote:
    EDIT: And on a larger note (and keep in mind I love PvP), let's put skills that completely remove the control of your character in that trash can, as well. Let's see if we can come up with something better than, "I hit one button, you run in a circle for 8 seconds, unable to do anything LOLZ!" forms of crowd control.

    I think abilities like WoW Rogue Blind (renders you unable to do things, but any damage you take removes the effect) are fine, but flat out stuns and fears are silly goosery. Even something like Cyclone (stuns you, but also makes you immune to damage) is borderline fine.

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    Catastrophe_XXVICatastrophe_XXVI Registered User regular
    I like the idea of the jedi mind trick. Casting something on a player tham makes you invisble to just them. Or maybe an area affect "spell" that works on a group of mobs and maybe up to x players. That way spreading out and watching your team mates means getting jumped by rogues is harder. But, if a rogue is smart enough and jumps the person last in the pack from behind they should be able to get in and out. So I guess having one that is a single target "mind trick" and another that's an AOE "smoke bomb"

    PSN ID: Catastrophe_xxvi
    3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
    Shiny Code: 3837
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    I like the idea of the jedi mind trick. Casting something on a player tham makes you invisble to just them.

    That's a pretty awesome idea.

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    DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    I have to be honest, as someone who is as down on end game raiding as I am, the idea of loot bags really piques my interest back up.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    am0n wrote:
    It becomes much easier if BioWare added customizable lists. If someone is bad at dungeons/raids, you may not want to ignore them. They may still be okay people to talk to. But you'd like to remember they aren't worth grouping with. I tried to advocate a 'Warning List' or some way to customize a list such that you can add them to it, not ignore them, but have their name show up maybe in another color in chat, so you can recognize them.

    WoW had an addon with functionality like that.

    It's called GearScore.

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    that isn't at all what gearscore did

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    Decoy wrote:
    I have to be honest, as someone who is as down on end game raiding as I am, the idea of loot bags really piques my interest back up.

    What's the loot bag idea?

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited July 2011
    that isn't at all what gearscore did

    Read my post again.

    quickrate.jpg

    Echo on
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    hoodie13hoodie13 punch bro Registered User regular
    Decoy wrote:
    I have to be honest, as someone who is as down on end game raiding as I am, the idea of loot bags really piques my interest back up.

    What's the loot bag idea?
    After bosses/dungeons, EVERYONE gets a bag o' loot, and you don't have to roll for it. The chance factor comes in what you end up getting in your bag.

    PSN: HoodieThirteen
    XBL: Torn Hoodie
    @hoodiethirteen
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    ChaosRedChaosRed Registered User regular
    Confirmation today that there will be both RP-PVP and RP-PVE server designations. That pleases me. It was mentioned before by a beta tester, but I just saw a link on twitter that confirmed it again.

    I still haven't seen any word on whether mods are going to be allowed (or if there is any kind of scripting at all). Last I heard, they were toying with the idea of at least allowing some basic macros, but that's it. Anyone have an update on this?

    dbf1147f15514b46.png
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    ChaosRed wrote:
    I still haven't seen any word on whether mods are going to be allowed (or if there is any kind of scripting at all). Last I heard, they were toying with the idea of at least allowing some basic macros, but that's it. Anyone have an update on this?

    Think I read "we want mods, but it won't be in at release" from a dev.

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    PaperFootballPaperFootball Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Friday update is a flashpoint walkthrough.
    Watching that darkside choice made my stomache hurt. I don't even have the stones to mass murder polygons.

    PaperFootball on
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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    Mon Calamari ftw. I would so play one if they were an option.

    And yeah, that DS choice is heavy stuff.

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    ChaosRedChaosRed Registered User regular
    Thanks for the update Echo. RP mods are my goal of course, they greatly help RP. The WOW RP mods are really quite good.

    I was watching the new Dev video uploaded to SWTOR today. Ion Fist? Really? Is there a Snare Devil too? Or a Grouper Man?

    The combat is really pretty LOL in a lot of places. Not exactly highly entertaining to watch and the smuggler seemed largely irrelevant to the fight. Still the story seemed interesting and some of the voice work was really good.

    I hope players don't gripe/whine about which choices are chosen by a party. I can see myself often wanting to pick choices that will probably extend the scenario further (rather than shortcut it) and if I win the conversation I could see impatient players griping about it. Some players hate anything that takes additional time and personally, I am never in a hurry in these games. It seemed to me, that the choice the players made in the video (opening the air lock), allowed them to bypass another fight (where they would have to fight to reach the secondary switches to unlock the bridge). So it looks to me, like maybe some of the choices go beyond dark/light, they actually effect the length of the scenario.

    One cool thing though, is SWTOR devs have mentioned choices have long lasting effect. By destroying that engineer, the group may have made the second part of the scenario harder. My worry is, all the choices will get documented eventually, players will learn the most efficient way to complete a story and then demand a party all make those choices in unison for "maximum efficiency".

    dbf1147f15514b46.png
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    So Zabraks can be Consulars? Thought what was known about race/class combos didn't say so.

    Which is good, because that was my plan.

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    3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote:
    AspectVoid wrote:
    I'd be interested in learning in what country breaking a MMO beta NDA can result in fines or jail time

    the USA? they are the zaniest over sue you over anything, and retarded copyright laws etc.

    Jail time? Probably not. However, a monetary fine for "Breech of Contract"? Yeah, I can see that. The fact is that a court won't give a damn if your breach of an NDA was for a video game or for GE's latest jet fighter engine. You still broke a legal document and the penalties of said breach will be enforced.

    Most NDA's have a clause in them that says something along the lines of "If the undersign breaches this contract, X penalty will be assessed." Since someone broke the NDA contract, Bioware can enforce said penalty, and the courts will back Bioware up.

    But then Bioware would incur the time and cost to prosecute these people, which probably isn't worth either. Unless said NDA breakers were causing tangible harm to the company, but it's just posting scraps on the Internet. Unless there was some very specific penalty mentioned in the NDA, then it would be difficult and time consuming for a company to prove tangible loss as a result of the breach. Most of these things just say, "If you breach this contract, we'll kick you ass out of the beta tests and ban you from ever testing any of our games, affiliates games, or anyone else's we may be friends with..."

    I'm actually under an NDA, and play testing for a major table top gaming company. My NDA was a boilerplate affair, but I did have it explained to me that the penalties for violating it are deliberately vague - it depends on the damage done, and the NDA is the bullet in the gun that let's them annihilate you in court. It could be as simple as "You'll never playtest with us again." to "You've done financial harm to the company by revealing secrets to our competitors, prepare to lose all your money." One thing that was brought up to me was that I could never discuss what we playtested, even after the product is live, as it may one day be used in a future product.

    Either way, I take it pretty seriously.

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    ChaosRed wrote:
    Thanks for the update Echo. RP mods are my goal of course, they greatly help RP. The WOW RP mods are really quite good.

    I was watching the new Dev video uploaded to SWTOR today. Ion Fist? Really? Is there a Snare Devil too? Or a Grouper Man?

    The combat is really pretty LOL in a lot of places. Not exactly highly entertaining to watch and the smuggler seemed largely irrelevant to the fight. Still the story seemed interesting and some of the voice work was really good.

    I hope players don't gripe/whine about which choices are chosen by a party. I can see myself often wanting to pick choices that will probably extend the scenario further (rather than shortcut it) and if I win the conversation I could see impatient players griping about it. Some players hate anything that takes additional time and personally, I am never in a hurry in these games. It seemed to me, that the choice the players made in the video (opening the air lock), allowed them to bypass another fight (where they would have to fight to reach the secondary switches to unlock the bridge). So it looks to me, like maybe some of the choices go beyond dark/light, they actually effect the length of the scenario.

    One cool thing though, is SWTOR devs have mentioned choices have long lasting effect. By destroying that engineer, the group may have made the second part of the scenario harder. My worry is, all the choices will get documented eventually, players will learn the most efficient way to complete a story and then demand a party all make those choices in unison for "maximum efficiency".

    To me the above is why it's absolutely imperative, imho, to find friends and play together. ToR's system might unitentionally start to put a few nails in the, "I play MMO's like a single player game, even when I'm in a group" mentality.

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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Friday update is a flashpoint walkthrough.
    Watching that darkside choice made my stomache hurt. I don't even have the stones to mass murder polygons.

    The sad thing is
    It appears to be a bit of a shortcut option for that flashpoint. Hard to say for sure, there may be other circumstances we aren't aware of, but at least outwardly it appears to be "hit butan, skip running around." I wonder if that's going to be making it a really common pick.

    I know I'd pick the other option if it were "in character" for me, but I doubt it would make me many friends if I won.

    I liked what I saw. I'm really looking forward to flashpoints.

    EDIT: Also
    That Mandalorian deserves a medal for best slow clap ever.

    Silas Brown on
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    FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Bioware has been in this game for a while, so I think they expect NDA violations as soon as they send out Alpha and Beta invitations. A quick marketing fella, a clever marketing fella, would create his game marketing plan accordingly.

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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    ChaosRed wrote:
    Thanks for the update Echo. RP mods are my goal of course, they greatly help RP. The WOW RP mods are really quite good.

    I was watching the new Dev video uploaded to SWTOR today. Ion Fist? Really? Is there a Snare Devil too? Or a Grouper Man?

    The combat is really pretty LOL in a lot of places. Not exactly highly entertaining to watch and the smuggler seemed largely irrelevant to the fight. Still the story seemed interesting and some of the voice work was really good.

    I hope players don't gripe/whine about which choices are chosen by a party. I can see myself often wanting to pick choices that will probably extend the scenario further (rather than shortcut it) and if I win the conversation I could see impatient players griping about it
    . Some players hate anything that takes additional time and personally, I am never in a hurry in these games. It seemed to me, that the choice the players made in the video (opening the air lock), allowed them to bypass another fight (where they would have to fight to reach the secondary switches to unlock the bridge). So it looks to me, like maybe some of the choices go beyond dark/light, they actually effect the length of the scenario.

    One cool thing though, is SWTOR devs have mentioned choices have long lasting effect. By destroying that engineer, the group may have made the second part of the scenario harder. My worry is, all the choices will get documented eventually, players will learn the most efficient way to complete a story and then demand a party all make those choices in unison for "maximum efficiency".


    I was thinking the exact same thing. I can't see myself taking the Dark Side choice, at least not on my Jedi Knight. Sure, it probably adds 10-15 minutes to the dungeon run, but I want dem Light Side points.

    You and me, ChaosRed, we should be bros. Bros who take long and uneccessary detours.

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Watching captured 16:9 footage in a 4:3 video on my 16:9 screen.

    Because alpha leakers are dumb.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Ok so what are the chances of Bioware/EA releasing server names and info prior to the launch. I've got so many people I need to coordinate with. My old WoW guild, two separate groups of real life friends, getting everyone together is gonna be a logistical nightmare.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote:
    ChaosRed wrote:
    Thanks for the update Echo. RP mods are my goal of course, they greatly help RP. The WOW RP mods are really quite good.

    I was watching the new Dev video uploaded to SWTOR today. Ion Fist? Really? Is there a Snare Devil too? Or a Grouper Man?

    The combat is really pretty LOL in a lot of places. Not exactly highly entertaining to watch and the smuggler seemed largely irrelevant to the fight. Still the story seemed interesting and some of the voice work was really good.

    I hope players don't gripe/whine about which choices are chosen by a party. I can see myself often wanting to pick choices that will probably extend the scenario further (rather than shortcut it) and if I win the conversation I could see impatient players griping about it
    . Some players hate anything that takes additional time and personally, I am never in a hurry in these games. It seemed to me, that the choice the players made in the video (opening the air lock), allowed them to bypass another fight (where they would have to fight to reach the secondary switches to unlock the bridge). So it looks to me, like maybe some of the choices go beyond dark/light, they actually effect the length of the scenario.

    One cool thing though, is SWTOR devs have mentioned choices have long lasting effect. By destroying that engineer, the group may have made the second part of the scenario harder. My worry is, all the choices will get documented eventually, players will learn the most efficient way to complete a story and then demand a party all make those choices in unison for "maximum efficiency".


    I was thinking the exact same thing. I can't see myself taking the Dark Side choice, at least not on my Jedi Knight. Sure, it probably adds 10-15 minutes to the dungeon run, but I want dem Light Side points.

    You and me, ChaosRed, we should be bros. Bros who take long and uneccessary detours.

    I couldn't take that Flashpoint's particular Dark Side choice, since I don't believe in killing my own men in a situation where it really isn't necessary. On the other side, if that was a random, third party ship rather than a Republic ship, and those people where random mercenaries, then I would totally take the Dark Side choice.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote:
    Ok so what are the chances of Bioware/EA releasing server names and info prior to the launch. I've got so many people I need to coordinate with. My old WoW guild, two separate groups of real life friends, getting everyone together is gonna be a logistical nightmare.

    No idea, they haven't announced anything regarding that yet, as far as I know.
    At the very latest, the server names will be known when the early access phase starts, so if you've got some friends who haven't pre-ordered, you have a few days to communicate.

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    anyone with an iq over 80, and is enjoying the beta, doesn't want to risk their slot for rando's who just complain.

    ergo dumb beta leaks.

    belligerent on
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    DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote:
    I was thinking the exact same thing. I can't see myself taking the Dark Side choice, at least not on my Jedi Knight. Sure, it probably adds 10-15 minutes to the dungeon run, but I want dem Light Side points.

    If you choose the Light Side option, you will get light side points, regardless if the person who won the role chose the Dark Side option. So there's always that.

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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I am scared to death of going to a RP server and correcting someone

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    tricontricon Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    AspectVoid wrote:
    I couldn't take that Flashpoint's particular Dark Side choice, since I don't believe in killing my own men in a situation where it really isn't necessary. On the other side, if that was a random, third party ship rather than a Republic ship, and those people where random mercenaries, then I would totally take the Dark Side choice.

    I don't know the darkside option is a rational transaction or as spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I mean seriously why run around the ship and destroy the secondary conduits
    when you can press one button. OK maybe the republic ship designer needs a few lessons about fail-safes.

    Oh well I guess I will get many darkside points on my trooper. :D

    tricon on
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    ChaosRedChaosRed Registered User regular
    Good points on ensuring you find good friends, with similar play styles to work with in this game.

    And heck yeah, if a lollygagging role player is a suitable style for you, by all means look me up when the game gets going. I had every intention of posting what RP server and main characters I will be running when the time comes.

    Also, hilarious point about the "slowest, widest clap in MMO history", I had meant to comment on how awful the clap animation was. It looked like he was really uncoordinated and had to concentrate really hard on clapping, lest he actually miss hitting the other hand. I think I've seen circus seals clap with more alacrity.

    I love these new photos of some of the Trooper gear...check it out!

    http://torwars.com/2011/07/29/costume-greatness-storm-trooper/

    :)


    dbf1147f15514b46.png
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Maz- wrote:
    Lucascraft wrote:
    Ok so what are the chances of Bioware/EA releasing server names and info prior to the launch. I've got so many people I need to coordinate with. My old WoW guild, two separate groups of real life friends, getting everyone together is gonna be a logistical nightmare.

    No idea, they haven't announced anything regarding that yet, as far as I know.
    At the very latest, the server names will be known when the early access phase starts, so if you've got some friends who haven't pre-ordered, you have a few days to communicate.

    If you make guilds now, guilds with set alliances and rivalries will have a very good chance of all landing on the same server.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    tricon wrote:
    AspectVoid wrote:
    I couldn't take that Flashpoint's particular Dark Side choice, since I don't believe in killing my own men in a situation where it really isn't necessary. On the other side, if that was a random, third party ship rather than a Republic ship, and those people where random mercenaries, then I would totally take the Dark Side choice.

    I don't know the darkside option is a rational transaction or as spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I mean seriously why run around the ship and destroy the secondary conduits
    when you can press one button. OK maybe the republic ship designer needs a few lessons about fail-safes.

    Oh well I guess I will get many darkside points on my trooper. :D

    Oh, don't get me wrong, I totally understand why someone would take that option. I just don't believe in sacrificing my own people when its not necessary. If they'd been anyone but Republic soldiers, I'd have sent them out an airlock as soon as I knew which button to push.

    I completely expect to be more dark than light, Jedi or not.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    Silas BrownSilas Brown That's hobo style. Registered User regular
    After watching the leaked Smuggler video, I find myself increasingly ambivalent about the class. It initially interested me because of the cover mechanic, which had me picturing a tactical combat experience, but it's clear that you can just drop cover wherever, reducing it to a glorified mandatory stance trigger.

    I really want in the beta just so I can try the Smuggler out before the game launches. I need to experience first hand what that mechanic is like.

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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    Wait, wait, Republic soldiers?

    I got this.

    *boop*

    Out the airlock the moment you turn your back.

    Totes not your fault, nothing you could do.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
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