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SC2: GO READ THE NEW THREAD!!

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Posts

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Stilts wrote: »
    Okay, after, like...I can't even remember how many months of not playing, I want to try and start laddering again. Maybe get myself out of bronze finally.

    Given all the recent changes to Protoss and the techniques people have learned, what's a good opening for me to just do over and over until my macro actually becomes decent enough for me to start worrying about the complexities of this game?

    vs. T - 2 Gate Robo

    vs. P - 4 gate (sorry), practice transitions out of it

    vs Z - Dunno. 3 Gate sentry expand maybe?

    Spaffy on
    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Stilts wrote: »
    Okay, after, like...I can't even remember how many months of not playing, I want to try and start laddering again. Maybe get myself out of bronze finally.

    Given all the recent changes to Protoss and the techniques people have learned, what's a good opening for me to just do over and over until my macro actually becomes decent enough for me to start worrying about the complexities of this game?

    For all matchups

    9 Pylon
    Chronoboost Nexus when pylon finishes
    13 Gateway
    Chronoboost Nexus when gateway is begun constructing
    15 Assimilator
    16 Pylon
    18 Cybercore
    22 Pylon
    23 2nd Assimilator
    Start warpgate research and a stalker as soon as your cybernetics core finishes. With your next 100 gas, drop a robotics facility, then another gateway.

    Matchup specific things
    -vs Terran
    Make 2 observers out of the robotics bay before making any immortals. Send one to their base and keep one at your base. This lets you see everything they are going to do. If they are expanding, make your own nexus and don't produce any immortals. If they are not expanding, and have a factory already or even a starport already, drop a third gateway. If you see two or more barracks and no units, start making an immortal because an attack is coming.

    vs Protoss
    Make an Immortal as soon as your robo finishes and chronoboost it, and add two more gateways after the robo instead of just 1. Expanding is not a safe option in PvP and your opponent is unlikely to be doing it.

    vs Zerg
    Make one observer than one immortal. Don't make any more until you confirm what they're doing. Expand before adding any additional gateways unless you have a reason to suspect them to make a lot of units.

    Things to focus on while executing this

    1) Crisp timing on building placement. Put that pylon on 9 exactly at 100 minerals. Don't wait until you're sitting on 130 to do so. Throw that gateway at exactly 150 minerals. Make your robo as soon as you have 200 minerals 100 gas. Late buildings mean late other buildings which means late units which means you lose.

    2) Constant probe production. The supply numbers given above for the build are dependent on constant probe production. You will find that you get the minerals for things exactly on time if you are constantly making probes.

    3) Add pylons when needed. Times when you need to begin a pylon are
    -16
    -22
    -29
    -36
    -44

    from there make 2 at a time whenever you have spare minerals and all your production buildings are busy.

    4) Continually make things out of all your production facilities, with the exception of your robo. Always make sure your gateways are building, and if they are warpgates make sure they are always on cooldown. Don't let a warpgate sit idle for more than a few seconds if you can help it.

    5) Send your scout probe after making the pylon in all matchups.

    Dhalphir on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    If you play at my times and I see you in the PA channel, I'll run through a quick game vs AI to show you what the build should look like, done well, so you have a reference.

    Dhalphir on
  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Thanks so much, Dhal. Those are exactly the sort of tips I was hoping for.

    Just one question: should I be chronoboosting warpgate research, or should I just focus on boosting probe production the whole time?

    Stilts on
    IKknkhU.gif
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Spend your chrono on warpgate research for now. Once you get more confident in predicting what your opponent is doing based on the information your probe scout gives you, you can start spending less on warpgate and more on probes when you believe your opponent is doing something economically focused.

    The thing to keep in mind is that while technically you will fall behind an opponent economically if you don't chronoboost probes, you're in Bronze. The simple fact of constantly building probes (if you remember to do it) will give you an economic edge over your opponents already, and in that situation it is better to be safe.

    Dhalphir on
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    No starting Zealot on any of those builds Dhal?

    ChaosHat on
  • SceptreSceptre Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Vari! Congratulations dude! You've worked for it, that's for sure.

    Sceptre on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    No starting Zealot on any of those builds Dhal?

    No no, you can make a zealot. I just don't put units in my build orders because it can make people delay the buildings to get their units at a specific time if they find things don't quite line up.

    Just fit a zealot in sometime between the cybercore at 18 and the pylon at 22, wherever you can find a spare 100 minerals without affecting probe production.

    Dhalphir on
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    That build seems like it would only really work for high level players, as it would rely on very good control to defend strong early attacks

    DodgeBlan on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Code A matches at 13:10pm KST today (about 3 hours from now!)

    oGsTheWind vs MVP_Tails
    HoSeo_VanVanth vs SocceR (this match might not be so great)
    NSHoSeo San vs FXO_Sheth (holy shit yes)
    SlayerSMMA vs ZeNEXPuzzle (this will be epic)

    Then later at 18:10pm KST we have the first 2 Code S groups of the season, with

    Group A
    IMNestea
    ST_July
    TSLTricksteR
    and TSL_Rain was supposed to be in the group, this group just has 3 players in it since he has forfeited his spot

    Group B
    anyproPrime.WE
    TSL_Clide
    MVP_viOlet
    oGsEnsnare

    My predictions for Code A

    Tails will beat TheWind. TheWind just doesn't have enough time for practise being a coach, and I think when he loses now he will stick to purely coaching and not attempt to requalify.
    SocceR will beat VanVanth. VanVanth sucks. The only way he'll win is if he gets lucky in a PvP coinflip.

    I think San is going to beat Sheth. But, I want Sheth to win. So I'll call it as a Sheth victory.

    I think Puzzle is going to beat MMA. Puzzle is very very very good, and MMAs best matchup is TvZ, not TvP. I am disappointed these two had to meet in the first round.

    Code S group A predictions
    I think July and Nestea are pretty obviously going to take the top 2 spots in this group. Nestea is a god at ZvZ, while July is average at best. July will lose to Nestea, and take a walkover win to Rain. Nestea will beat July and take the walkover win. Both of them will beat Trickster. He is a good player, but he's not exceptional, and Korean Protosses are having a very hard time vs Korean Zergs at the moment. Unless Trickster has come up with something fancy for these two Zergs, he'll be going to the up and down matches. Admittedly, with two Zergs in his group and no Rain, Trickster only has to practise one matchup, while the Zerg players each have to practise ZvP and ZvZ, but I don't think it will be enough.

    Code S Group B predictions
    This is a bit of a mediocre group. None of the players here have shown any exceptional results or exceptional play. viOlet has shown flashes of brilliance, and Ensnare has been a solid face in the GSL Code S for a while, but I think that the group will shake out as

    1 - TSL Clide
    2- MVP Violet
    3 - anypro
    4 - Ensnare

    Dhalphir on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    That build seems like it would only really work for high level players, as it would rely on very good control to defend strong early attacks

    Bronze players don't do strong early attacks. They do weak late attacks. It will be fine.
    This is not intended to be a build he can use forever until he can get into Diamond, although with good control you totally could.
    Its merely intended to be something that removes the importance of interpreting your early scouting information correctly by getting very fast observers.

    Dhalphir on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    in this youtube video, is bisu focus firing the mines from the vultures? I don't know exactly how it all works but I know the mines pop up for a second before they run in and do their damage.

    just want to make sure I am impressed by the right thing.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    good predictions dhal I concur

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    yes that is what he is doing

    Dhalphir on
  • TannerMSTannerMS Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    My predictions for Code A

    Tails will beat TheWind. TheWind just doesn't have enough time for practise being a coach, and I think when he loses now he will stick to purely coaching and not attempt to requalify.
    SocceR will beat VanVanth. VanVanth sucks. The only way he'll win is if he gets lucky in a PvP coinflip.

    I think San is going to beat Sheth. But, I want Sheth to win. So I'll call it as a Sheth victory.

    I think Puzzle is going to beat MMA. Puzzle is very very very good, and MMAs best matchup is TvZ, not TvP. I am disappointed these two had to meet in the first round.

    Allow me to drop some knowledge on your ass. TheWind has openly admitted that he doesn't give a shit so he's out like you said. Everything else is WRONG! Soccer is mediocre from what I've heard and Vanvanth has 4 seasons of TV experience on him. That's a huge deal. Sheth isn't going to beat San, he's going to MAUL HIM. Sheth's best matchup is ZvP and San's only shining moment was when he was abusing the fuck out of Khaydarin in PvT! Furthermore, Sheth is HUNGRY! He's always been incredibly driven and now he's thrown away everything to go smoke some Korean rear! Puzzle is a great player but MMA has the heart of a champion, there's no way he's going down to some clown.

    Vari, thank goodness you made masters today so I can stop moping about getting thrashed earlier

    TannerMS on
  • His CorkinessHis Corkiness Registered User
    edited June 2011
    He is attacking each individual mine with barely the necessary number of Dragoons to kill it before it does damage, while also repositioning his Dragoons to stop them from being cut off by the Vultures.

    His Corkiness on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    TannerMS wrote: »
    Vari, thank goodness you made masters today so I can stop moping about getting thrashed earlier

    hahaha. I felt awesome after that game.


    He is attacking each individual mine with barely the necessary number of Dragoons to kill it before it does damage, while also repositioning his Dragoons to stop them from being cut off by the Vultures.

    thanks. it truly is beautiful, when they ran threw the replay after the game I got a better look (I am bad at multitasking and people yelling in korean didn't clue me in on when to look). even flash was just laughing after it.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Do you like Jaedong?

    Do you like Zerg?

    You'll like this game!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRqS68D2TH0


    starts at 4mins

    peacekeeper on
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I like to think that I similarly inspired confidence when you beat me, Vari <3

    kedinik on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    that jaedong v light game is dope, i remember it

    also, im gonna watch gsl tonight for the first time in forever

    mostly because of san v sheth, but the rest looks good too!

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Congrats Vari!!!

    You got power up!
    a-600x528.jpg

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Also, a very cute video series from a civilization long lost.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NdVPTQkRaY

    There are 5 episodes total but the first kicked things off quite well.

    MMMig on
    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Grats Vari, now you just have to aim for GM :)

    PantsB on
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  • SeguerSeguer Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I love that series, Mig

    Seguer on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    qxc commentating?

    how interesting

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wait what is this?

    This is great. They've just got guys who I don't know who they are, doing weird shit.

    stimtokolos on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    also tails owns and is now my favorite protoss player

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wow, that was uhm. Not the best for thewind.

    stimtokolos on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    i'm actually pretty interested by what tails is doing now

    first that early 1 zealot pressure to punish fast hatch on a wide nat

    and then dt's to capitalize on that economy lead?

    iiiinteresting

    edit: holy shit whole game aggression by tails

    DOPE

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    qxc wolf is a good combo.

    stimtokolos on
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Holy shit that overlord dodge.
    That could be the game.
    Wow, maybe not, I'm not sure.

    stimtokolos on
  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    qxc is great. My god.

    stimtokolos on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    qxc is great. My god.

    Yeah he's very entertaining.

    6 pools that don't end up immediately winning or losing are weird

    PantsB on
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  • PoolCuePoolCue Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    your time is up, wind!

    PoolCue on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    So yeah that was an odd build

    PantsB on
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  • SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Wow, guess red was determined to be all-in that PvP

    Smasher on
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Dark Shrine? Naw I don't need to chrono out another observer, I'll let the colossus finish

    PantsB on
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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    PantsB wrote: »
    Dark Shrine? Naw I don't need to chrono out another observer, I'll let the colossus finish

    Definitely a bad move, that.

    kedinik on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    sheth vs san is up next right? lets have lots of discussion in here so i can follow and live through you guys from work

    Dhalphir on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    god why did it have to be against san

    i know i joked that san was my favorite protoss, but honestly san is one of the ones that i just love to watch (although admitedly he has some weak matchups and excels in some areas of the game and not so much in others)

    but sheth is our new american hope (considering other than qxc there isn't too much visible talent on the fxo team)

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
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