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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hahaha, the news post is great.

    "It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who."

    and

    "I want you to think about that future, the one we want to live in. Hopefully it will be some comfort while you are looking over your transaction history, trying to figure out exactly how much of your hard earned savings have been converted into dildos."

    Darmak on
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  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    trying to refresh a thread about denial of service attacks

    seeing this
    The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.

    oh, cruel irony

    Captain K on
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I don't really agree with the newspost though. He is saying they are doing this to enhance security.

    But they aren't. They don't give a shit about that kind of thing.

    Haven't they publicly stated that they are just doing it for fun, hence their name.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I didn't really understand the newspost to claim that they had that as a goal. Or had anything as a goal.

    Captain K on
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought the PSN outage was pretty funny, but as soon as Minecraft went down, shit got real. I'm not angry at Lulzsec, so much as disappointed. It's like a group of stalwart heroes broke into an evil corporation's headquarters, then ran off to the park and punched some toddlers in the back of the head.

    Dark Raven X on
    Oh brilliant
  • The GeekThe Geek Oh-Two Crew, Omeganaut Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    What is DDoS and why is so much stuff vulnerable to it? One would think that when these DDoS hacks started going around, that people would beef up their security against whatever it is.

    It's essentially a million people mashing 'refresh' on your server so that no one else can use it.

    Not a lot you can do about that, except having more robust servers. When popular website links to some small-time webpage; the resulting outage is essentially caused by an unintentional DDOS attack

    It's like when a sight is wanged, but on purpose.

    The Geek on
    BLM - ACAB
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Captain K wrote: »
    I didn't really understand the newspost to claim that they had that as a goal. Or had anything as a goal.

    Yeah you're right, I was reading it wrong.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    well

    their goal was the lulz



    but that goes without saying

    Captain K on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who.

    Aww. I'd let my cat dance on the keyboard for me, but I don't want his dirty feet on my desk.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Jephery wrote: »
    It’s been an education for me, to be sure: custom passwords everywhere, now, 2-step where available, and when I need a new password I let my daughter go fucking crazy nuts on the keyboard. And then I say who’s my little hash function? Who is it? She knows who.

    Aww. I'd let my cat dance on the keyboard for me, but I don't want his dirty feet on my desk.

    at least there's a practical solution for this problem.

    still nothing for adolescent (in body and/or mind) script kiddies.

    fightinfilipino on
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    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    kingworks wrote: »
    So glad I don't play any online games of consequence.

    BTW, what's the over/under on Blizzard getting hacked - if they haven't already?

    They tried to hack Blizzard, but weren't terribly successful

    This makes me happy.

    sarukun on
  • sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I thought the PSN outage was pretty funny, but as soon as Minecraft went down, shit got real. I'm not angry at Lulzsec, so much as disappointed. It's like a group of stalwart heroes broke into an evil corporation's headquarters, then ran off to the park and punched some toddlers in the back of the head.

    Everybody looks the same to you when you are a sociopath.

    And if these guys were your definition of stalwart heroes, I'm thinkin' maybe you need some better role models.

    Painting Sony as an "evil" corporation seems pretty asinine too, come to think of it. Insensitive and careless with their costumer's needs, sure, but painting them as "evil" is alarmist propaganda, and largely nonsense.

    sarukun on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Artreus wrote: »
    I don't really agree with the newspost though. He is saying they are doing this to enhance security.

    But they aren't. They don't give a shit about that kind of thing.

    Haven't they publicly stated that they are just doing it for fun, hence their name.

    There have been statements to both ends, but really they aren't a directed organization or anything. The fact that so many account thefts are being publicized but the info isn't being dumped into the usual torrent or sale channels errs on the security side of things. They may have an objectionable methodology, but at least some of them are trying to navigate an acceptable morality.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh, he said the endgame of the situation as in the eventual result, not as in the goal of the organization.

    RoyceSraphim on
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  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    rhylith wrote: »
    These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.

    Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    rhylith wrote: »
    These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.

    Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.

    Do we know for a fact they are teenagers?

    Butters on
    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
  • Clint EastwoodClint Eastwood My baby's in there someplace She crawled right inRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    With a name like Lulzsec, I really hope they're teenagers and not creepy Halkunesque 37 year olds doing stuff for Lulz.

    Clint Eastwood on
  • bawkbawkboo1bawkbawkboo1 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Captain K wrote: »
    As far as I understand it, a DDoS attack (something denial of service) is nothing more than internet traffic spamming somebody's service until it crashes because it can't handle all the traffic. So basically you just turn your internet star destroyer until it's facing somebody's login server and blast it with pings and requests and stuff until it goes down.

    I think the reason it works is because it's so simple.

    It stands for distributed denial of service, and it isn't at all new or advanced. And yeah, it's just flooding the servers with thousands of web requests until it goes down. Obviously, doing that doesn't lead to passwords being disclosed. It's like if thousands of people showed up to a store and made it unavailable to real customers.

    bawkbawkboo1 on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Butters wrote: »
    Do we know for a fact they are teenagers?
    I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    What if we just smacked them around a little?

    A Dabble Of Thelonius on
  • TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    rhylith wrote: »
    These guys also DDOS'd the CIA's website. I hope they track the dumbasses down and put them away for a long time.

    Yes, I can definitely see how teenagers should be institutionalized for years of their life in wretched living conditions and potentially among violent offenders for messing up some websites. That will definitely protect the fundamental structure of society and teach people not to engage in that behavior in the future. It sure worked all the other times we did it.

    it's not about protecting society or teaching potential future offenders

    it's about fuck those assholes

    TheySlashThem on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Butters wrote: »
    Do we know for a fact they are teenagers?
    I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.

    So what do you propose be done with grown adults (assuming their are some) that know full well they are breaking the law and possibly causing millions in damages. Should they not be subject to prosecution?

    Butters on
    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    I agree with Annie. I don't see how putting them in jail is a measured response to some DDOS attacks.

    Druhim on
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  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Butters wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    Do we know for a fact they are teenagers?
    I'd wager a fair amount of money that there are teenagers in the group. I wouldn't be surprised if there are also twenty-something or older folks among them. I don't think that would really change the value of the response "putting them away for a long time" would have in this situation.

    So what do you propose be done with grown adults (assuming their are some) that know full well they are breaking the law and possibly causing millions in damages. Should they not be subject to prosecution?
    I don't think they should be subject to long term imprisonment = I don't think they should be subject to any prosecution? What? Does society hang in such a perilous balance that we can't brook any compromise or attempt at constructive resolution?

    Aneurhythmia on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.

    Butters on
    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Just sentence them all to a year in Amish country.

    Maximum on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Butters wrote: »
    It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.

    Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    I agree with Annie. I don't see how putting them in jail is a measured response to some DDOS attacks.

    what about all the credit card info they claimed they got from bethesda and sony?

    Burden of Proof on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.

    The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.

    Brolo on
  • BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Rolo wrote: »
    Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.

    The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.

    http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/861936-playstation-network-hack-could-cost-sony-1-5billion

    One expert, Larry Ponemon of privacy and information security research group the Ponemon Institute, said that the total cost to Sony could be $1.5billion (£900million) - from a combination of lost business, compensation, and the cost of rectifying the breach. Other figures being thrown around are even larger, rising as high as $24billion, as estimated by business magazine Forbes.

    Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/861936-playstation-network-hack-could-cost-sony-1-5billion#ixzz1Pqe3XTJk

    ...or $1.5 billion. Or $24 billion. Somewhere in the $170 million to $24 billion range.

    Brolo on
  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    MaximumJ wrote: »
    Just sentence them all to a year in Amish country.

    This seems like a fair sentence.

    Or maybe make them do some community service or something.

    Get their asses out of their computer chairs and make use of these fuckers. At least some of them need to be made examples of, just because they're young adults doesn't make them immune to punishment.

    If they physically did march into a business's headquarters or a retail store and clogged it up for laughs then they'd get the same treatment. They should get the same level of consequences for doing it virtually, especially in the case of online-only shops like Minecraft.

    TankHammer on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    If you flash mobbed a store? You might get a CTW.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2011
    Druhim wrote: »
    I agree with Annie. I don't see how putting them in jail is a measured response to some DDOS attacks.

    what about all the credit card info they claimed they got from bethesda and sony?

    First of all, this discussion was in response to someone claiming they should be put away for a long time specifically for the DDOS attacks. Secondly, since when is claiming to have done something the same as actually having done it?

    Druhim on
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  • jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    yeah I mean how DARE Sony create electronic entertainment devices which I am free to either purchase or not, or purchase one of their competitor's products! PURE EVIL!

    the PSN hack was in response to Sony removing Linux support. sad thing is Sony tried to reach out to the "home-brew" crowd by allowing Linux on the console in the first place, but people ended up using it for hax and pirating games, so they had to remove it. they fucked it up in other words.

    it would be like if I handed you a dirt-bike and said "now don't go tearing up other people's lawns with it" - you went out tore up people's lawns so I had to take it away, then you got all mad and starting throwing rocks thru their windows instead. HACK-TAVISTS!! FOR THE PEOPLE!

    jwalk on
  • Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It doesn't seem like these "hacking groups" can do anything actually relevant. They are just inconveniencing minor websites and easy targets with large amounts of traffic and trying to exploit any obvious holes in security.

    I don't think it should even be getting attention because thats all it is, some people who just want attention.

    Its fair to want them to go to jail and get outraged over it I guess... but I'm not one to think witch hunts should be started over immature pranks. Theres more important people to go after than losers with too much time on their hands.

    Black_Heart on
  • M.D.M.D. and then what happens? Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I think the point is that losers with too much time on their hand still costs damage to happen in a monetary value. So if some kids play a prank on my website and I end up losing customers and revenue nothing should happen to them?

    I dont think long term jail time is approriate but there should be a punishment for the crime commited.

    M.D. on
  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    It doesn't seem like these "hacking groups" can do anything actually relevant. They are just inconveniencing minor websites and easy targets with large amounts of traffic and trying to exploit any obvious holes in security.

    I don't think it should even be getting attention because thats all it is, some people who just want attention.

    Its fair to want them to go to jail and get outraged over it I guess... but I'm not one to think witch hunts should be started over immature pranks. Theres more important people to go after than losers with too much time on their hands.

    Getting a website to shut down causes lost revenue (in sales and advertising) and forces a company to spend its resources on more preventative measures. Pranks or not they have to potential to cause lasting damage which makes their activities very relevant.

    Obvious security holes or not these individuals have no right to engage in this activity. If one is able to drive a truck through the front door of a convenient store the blame doesn't lie with the store owner for not having concrete pillars out front.
    Butters wrote: »
    It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.

    Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.

    I would consider several months in prison to be a pretty long time for a non violent crime of this sort.

    Butters on
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  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Rolo wrote: »
    Rolo wrote: »
    Still, a DDOS attack or a security breach can cause several millions of dollars, In Sony's case the cost of their breach was estimated at $170M, and that's not including all of the third parties who couldn't sell games using PSN while the service was down.

    The people responsible for the hack certainly won't have the money to pay for the damages they've caused, even if you garnish whatever wages they make for the rest of their lives.

    http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/861936-playstation-network-hack-could-cost-sony-1-5billion

    One expert, Larry Ponemon of privacy and information security research group the Ponemon Institute, said that the total cost to Sony could be $1.5billion (£900million) - from a combination of lost business, compensation, and the cost of rectifying the breach. Other figures being thrown around are even larger, rising as high as $24billion, as estimated by business magazine Forbes.

    Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/games/861936-playstation-network-hack-could-cost-sony-1-5billion#ixzz1Pqe3XTJk

    ...or $1.5 billion. Or $24 billion. Somewhere in the $170 million to $24 billion range.

    That's out of fucking control. I mean, even assuming those are the most sensationalist estimates, the realistic ones are out of control. That kind of underscores a larger problem with how the system is built, but that doesn't really shift the blame from the attackers to the victims by any means. But it doesn't really help determine an appropriate solution, either. Maybe you can pin specific costs on the attackers: new hardware, staff, bandwidth for the free games, overtime hours, etc., but estimates of lost sales are super nebulous. And since those people almost certainly can't pay back even a fraction of the losses, they get imprisoned as a sort of weird symbolic gesture that doesn't really help anyone figure out a better approach to what's going on. I dunno, man.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    jwalk wrote: »
    the PSN hack was in response to Sony removing Linux support. sad thing is Sony tried to reach out to the "home-brew" crowd by allowing Linux on the console in the first place, but people ended up using it for hax and pirating games, so they had to remove it. they fucked it up in other words.

    it would be like if I handed you a dirt-bike and said "now don't go tearing up other people's lawns with it" - you went out tore up people's lawns so I had to take it away, then you got all mad and starting throwing rocks thru their windows instead. HACK-TAVISTS!! FOR THE PEOPLE!

    Last I checked, the Linux homebrew wasn't nearly sophisticated enough to run modified games online. I think they had barely decrypted the disc system for playing unofficial game media. Piracy was probably the big concern there. But I think the attack was in response to that whole extended lawsuit and subpoena of personal info for folks who even visited the websites of the groups working on the work arounds.

    So the analogy doesn't really hold up.

    Aneurhythmia on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Butters wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    It depends on your definition of long-term imprisonment. I don't think a few months in prison is extreme in the case where you have an adult that is just trying to cause as much havoc as he can for the fun of it.

    Would you really ever read the phrase "put them away for a long time" as a few months? Honestly.

    I would consider several months in prison to be a pretty long time for a non violent crime of this sort.

    That just doesn't read to me at all, but we're likely at an impasse attempting to infer another person's meaning.

    edit: If this post were just slightly more combative, I might have pulled a Defender triple-shot there. So, uh, f u Jon.

    Aneurhythmia on
This discussion has been closed.