Scottsman, if you're still interested in the Booties, I was looking at trading them for your vintage Trophy Belt.
Also have a Quick Fix if you wouldn't mind trading for a spare Eternal Reward.
Scottsman, if you're still interested in the Booties, I was looking at trading them for your vintage Trophy Belt.
Also have a Quick Fix if you wouldn't mind trading for a spare Eternal Reward.
Sure. I'll probably be busy tomorrow, but I'd be down for both trades.
EDIT: Just to keep things clear.
DeMoN: I'm still willing to trade the "Your Eternal Reward" and a nametag for the Market Gardener
AuburnTiger: I'm Willing to trade (or give away more likely) a cooler
Pata: I'm up for trading the Vintage Chargin' Targe for a refined metal
Skexis: Willing to trade Vintage Trophy Belt and a "Your Eternal Reward" for the Booties and the Quick Fix.
I probably won't be free until 5pm Alaskan time (6pm PST, 10pm EST) and possibly later during the week, but send me a Steam friends request/message if you're online and I'll try and get your stuff to you. Steam name is still UndeadScottsman.
Hey Ebo I was gonna post that replay where I shot those guys with a kritz but whenever I try to watch it the game crashes and says getdynamicbaseline: findstringindex(bullshit)
thanks valve
tofu on
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
Pretty much. Snipers and spies do not counter 3 heavy medic pairs. If they did, then most games on the PA servers would not be dominated by heavy medics.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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VivixenneRemember your training, and we'll get through this just fine.Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
I would argue that the issue is not that heavies are OP but the these pub servers lack players who are able to counter them.
But that's just me. Heavy-Medics are effective but far from OP... even three pairs of them (of reasonable skill) are not that hard for two decent spies and a sniper to stop. And if you let all three pairs build three ubers at once then thats kinda YOUR team's fault not theirs.
If those 6 people were standing in a line and never turned around, sure.
Lokiamis on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
I bring great shame to my family by doing so, but I have to side with Rami on this.
There's a bunch of reasons Heavy/Medic pair spamming is strong. The first is obviously Heavy's 1v1 combat strength since the movespeed/spin-up patch. If you're losing a 1v1 with a Soldier, Demo or Scout, you suck at Heavy. That's really all there is to say about it.
Then there's the "a good Spy/Sniper counters them" argument. What confuses people is that yes, good players of these classes will get kills on Heavy/Medic pairs, but that generally isn't going to matter. The presence of these pairs on the front line in the first place means that your own front line cannot engage them without being at a disadvantage. For your Spies, this means there's fewer distractions to take advantage of to get backstabs off; for your Snipers it means the enemy team is much more likely to be moving quickly to your position. In essence, you might stall the inevitable getting a load of kills on their H/M pairs, but your team is probably going to lose anyway for it.
There's also the issue that it's much easier and quicker to counter Spies and Snipers than it is H/M. Spies? One paranoid Pyro following the pairs around is going to mitigate a lot of backstabbing. Snipers? Well, if you've got the enemy frontline on the run, a Spy is going to have an easy time disrupting the Aussie.
The two options at the moment, neither of which are perfect, are Kritzed Sticky Demoman, which is as strong as ever, and Pyro/Engineer pairs (which PA never does because PA hates actually defending its engies and countering spies... seriously).
Well, two medic + heavies are enough to break a front or take a point, so you can devote the third one to watching the flank and mowing down any scouts/spies that go for your medics.
Demos that actually use stickies and pipes instead of silly melee setups are actually pretty good against heavies. If the heavy doesn't have medic then I'd expect to kill him or force him to run most time. If he does have a medic you can spam them in to slowing and retreating or set a trap and kill him, or his medic, or both of them. Or all 6 of them if they don't look up. (they never look up).
Hell against 3 Heavy Medic pairs it might be the one time the Scottish resistance is actually pretty reasonable? Have not tried that.
I bring great shame to my family by doing so, but I have to side with Rami on this.
There's a bunch of reasons Heavy/Medic pair spamming is strong. The first is obviously Heavy's 1v1 combat strength since the movespeed/spin-up patch. If you're losing a 1v1 with a Soldier, Demo or Scout, you suck at Heavy. That's really all there is to say about it.
Then there's the "a good Spy/Sniper counters them" argument. What confuses people is that yes, good players of these classes will get kills on Heavy/Medic pairs, but that generally isn't going to matter. The presence of these pairs on the front line in the first place means that your own front line cannot engage them without being at a disadvantage. For your Spies, this means there's fewer distractions to take advantage of to get backstabs off; for your Snipers it means the enemy team is much more likely to be moving quickly to your position. In essence, you might stall the inevitable getting a load of kills on their H/M pairs, but your team is probably going to lose anyway for it.
There's also the issue that it's much easier and quicker to counter Spies and Snipers than it is H/M. Spies? One paranoid Pyro following the pairs around is going to mitigate a lot of backstabbing. Snipers? Well, if you've got the enemy frontline on the run, a Spy is going to have an easy time disrupting the Aussie.
The two options at the moment, neither of which are perfect, are Kritzed Sticky Demoman, which is as strong as ever, and Pyro/Engineer pairs (which PA never does because PA hates actually defending its engies and countering spies... seriously).
Engineers have guns and wrenches, they should defend themselves.
I'm KIDDING. I actually enjoy playing defense as a pyro and hanging around engineer nests. I just haven't put in much time in PA servers because when I normally play they've been full.
I encountered the "Heavy is OP" thing myself the other night playing on a pub. My team was getting steamrolled, I was getting no support as Engineer, so I rolled a heavy about the same time another guy switched to medic.
We topped the scoreboard for the next three winning rounds. That was the most time I've spent playing Heavy since...well, ever.
Now, I don't really think Heavy/Medic is OP, just effective when played right. And I'm not going to even say I was doing it right, it's just that the other team kept running into my glorious hail of bullets and that strategy just didn't really work well for them.
Finally one of them realized "hey if I'm a spy I might be able to backstab that huge pile of death" and so I eventually had some problems, but we still won.
For all the rabble about hats, I still like that TF2 caters to all types of FPS players. I'm terrible at FPS games, primarily because I have no aim.
No aim? No problem! Heavy/Pyro, just point in the general direction and start firing...or go Engi and let your gun do the aiming for you!
citizen059 on
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Does anyone want to trade anything for my series 19/20/summer crate?
Edit: I was playing spy last night, and it finally started to click. Then I realized the other team just really sucked. Like a lot.
a pair of 3 medics and 3 heavies may not be impossible to deal with but it sometimes feels like it and it sure as shit isn't fun. want to win? spawn more heavies
I agree that lot's of heavies is not fun to play against, but people moan about how strong the heavy is all the time. Before natascha was nerfed they moaned even more. It just seems to me that if you need to change your playstyle to effectively deal with a specific kind of threat, that's not OP, that's variety.
Just want to say, heavies are fat and when they are firing they are really slow. On any defense map I would bet on 6 demos over 3 medic 3 heavy. I would also bet on 2 demos over 1 medic 1 heavy. Demos pour out a lot of damage man.
Also using stickies is at the very least as easy as playing heavy in any way that is remotely effective.
Interestingly playing against a team of 6 demos spamming is not fun either.
If they're coordinated enough to run 3 heavy combos and you aren't coordinated enough to stop them, I'm pretty sure they deserve the win. Its a team game afterall.
The real trouble is when you have a team coordinated enough to have both heavy combos and constant demo spam covering them.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
nobody ever does pyro/engineer pairs because it's incredibly boring
Heck, if it's that much of a demand than I don't mind doing either role. I like either one, even if it means playing Pyro defensively.
Next time I hop onto the server I'll play only one of either, anyone else who wants to pair up with me will be most welcomed. I'll bring milk and cookies (and weapons).
Posts
Also have a Quick Fix if you wouldn't mind trading for a spare Eternal Reward.
Ka-Chung!
Ka-Chung!
Sure. I'll probably be busy tomorrow, but I'd be down for both trades.
I'll give you a refined metal.
EDIT: Just to keep things clear.
DeMoN: I'm still willing to trade the "Your Eternal Reward" and a nametag for the Market Gardener
AuburnTiger: I'm Willing to trade (or give away more likely) a cooler
Pata: I'm up for trading the Vintage Chargin' Targe for a refined metal
Skexis: Willing to trade Vintage Trophy Belt and a "Your Eternal Reward" for the Booties and the Quick Fix.
I probably won't be free until 5pm Alaskan time (6pm PST, 10pm EST) and possibly later during the week, but send me a Steam friends request/message if you're online and I'll try and get your stuff to you. Steam name is still UndeadScottsman.
Also http://www.tf2items.com/id/orikae .
thanks valve
Pffft. My response to this is to snipe the hell out of their giant heads.
Not really though. Snipers and Spies both get countered fairly hard by groups of heavies.
But that's just me. Heavy-Medics are effective but far from OP... even three pairs of them (of reasonable skill) are not that hard for two decent spies and a sniper to stop. And if you let all three pairs build three ubers at once then thats kinda YOUR team's fault not theirs.
It'd be butt hard. But there are a lot of skilled players on PA servers.
There's a bunch of reasons Heavy/Medic pair spamming is strong. The first is obviously Heavy's 1v1 combat strength since the movespeed/spin-up patch. If you're losing a 1v1 with a Soldier, Demo or Scout, you suck at Heavy. That's really all there is to say about it.
Then there's the "a good Spy/Sniper counters them" argument. What confuses people is that yes, good players of these classes will get kills on Heavy/Medic pairs, but that generally isn't going to matter. The presence of these pairs on the front line in the first place means that your own front line cannot engage them without being at a disadvantage. For your Spies, this means there's fewer distractions to take advantage of to get backstabs off; for your Snipers it means the enemy team is much more likely to be moving quickly to your position. In essence, you might stall the inevitable getting a load of kills on their H/M pairs, but your team is probably going to lose anyway for it.
There's also the issue that it's much easier and quicker to counter Spies and Snipers than it is H/M. Spies? One paranoid Pyro following the pairs around is going to mitigate a lot of backstabbing. Snipers? Well, if you've got the enemy frontline on the run, a Spy is going to have an easy time disrupting the Aussie.
The two options at the moment, neither of which are perfect, are Kritzed Sticky Demoman, which is as strong as ever, and Pyro/Engineer pairs (which PA never does because PA hates actually defending its engies and countering spies... seriously).
Well the Heavies are kind of going to be doing that. You'd need three inexperienced Medics, though.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Hell against 3 Heavy Medic pairs it might be the one time the Scottish resistance is actually pretty reasonable? Have not tried that.
Engineers have guns and wrenches, they should defend themselves.
I encountered the "Heavy is OP" thing myself the other night playing on a pub. My team was getting steamrolled, I was getting no support as Engineer, so I rolled a heavy about the same time another guy switched to medic.
We topped the scoreboard for the next three winning rounds. That was the most time I've spent playing Heavy since...well, ever.
Now, I don't really think Heavy/Medic is OP, just effective when played right. And I'm not going to even say I was doing it right, it's just that the other team kept running into my glorious hail of bullets and that strategy just didn't really work well for them.
Finally one of them realized "hey if I'm a spy I might be able to backstab that huge pile of death" and so I eventually had some problems, but we still won.
For all the rabble about hats, I still like that TF2 caters to all types of FPS players. I'm terrible at FPS games, primarily because I have no aim.
No aim? No problem! Heavy/Pyro, just point in the general direction and start firing...or go Engi and let your gun do the aiming for you!
Edit: I was playing spy last night, and it finally started to click. Then I realized the other team just really sucked. Like a lot.
(not that anyone should need evidence at this point, heavies have been too strong for a long time now)
come with me
over here
yes right here
There's a lot of generalizations and theory-crafting going on in here that makes no sense once you actually get in game
a trio of heavies gets overconfident to spies. and then they fall
Just want to say, heavies are fat and when they are firing they are really slow. On any defense map I would bet on 6 demos over 3 medic 3 heavy. I would also bet on 2 demos over 1 medic 1 heavy. Demos pour out a lot of damage man.
Also using stickies is at the very least as easy as playing heavy in any way that is remotely effective.
Interestingly playing against a team of 6 demos spamming is not fun either.
The real trouble is when you have a team coordinated enough to have both heavy combos and constant demo spam covering them.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
and a pyro's variety in dealing with heavies - pick another class
Heck, if it's that much of a demand than I don't mind doing either role. I like either one, even if it means playing Pyro defensively.
Next time I hop onto the server I'll play only one of either, anyone else who wants to pair up with me will be most welcomed. I'll bring milk and cookies (and weapons).
Sniper bullet to the head? Yes huh.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
All I got is a crate, really. But I oh so do want this gun
4 seconds where you're essentially paralysed in order to headshot a Heavy is incredibly risky, though!
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111