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[GAME ON] Might and Magic: Heroes VI demo is here, Check OP for link. Game is out!

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    Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    I've never played a M&M game, but I grabbed the demo and it intrigued me enough to make pouty faces at the Minister of Finance and put this on my short list for purchases. But before I do, I need someone to explain one important tactical issue that I don;'t understand.

    Unless I'm doing something wrong there doesn't appear to be any way to prevent enemy melee creatures from just rushing past my melee and attacking my healers/ranged. I mean, I love the "knife a mofo" animation on my crossbowmen, but I'd much prefer it if they could do their job and shoot things. Is the only way to prevent this situation to split my stacks and create some sort of ungodly corner turtle?

    That seems like...an important oversight. What am I missing? Control zones or something that unlock later?

    "Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."

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    KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    I've never played a M&M game, but I grabbed the demo and it intrigued me enough to make pouty faces at the Minister of Finance and put this on my short list for purchases. But before I do, I need someone to explain one important tactical issue that I don;'t understand.

    Unless I'm doing something wrong there doesn't appear to be any way to prevent enemy melee creatures from just rushing past my melee and attacking my healers/ranged. I mean, I love the "knife a mofo" animation on my crossbowmen, but I'd much prefer it if they could do their job and shoot things. Is the only way to prevent this situation to split my stacks and create some sort of ungodly corner turtle?

    That seems like...an important oversight. What am I missing? Control zones or something that unlock later?


    It's always been possible for the enemy to get through to your ranged troops in HoMM games. You need to kill them before they can get there :)

    Target the fastest enemy troops first - there are only a small number of very fast flying troops that can get to your far side in a single move. Most will need to move twice to melee your ranged troops, and you should be killing them after that first move. Bear in mind that you don't necessarily have to kill the entire stack, just enough to make them too weak to inflict major casualties, so feel free to work on multiple quick stacks in the same round. If there are too many fast enemy stacks to possibly stop them all with your troops then use some delaying magic. There are various spells that will slow or entirely freeze one or more enemy stacks.

    Personally, I leave my slowest melee troops on the squares directly in front of my ranged troops on guard duty, and concentrate on killing the enemies with my faster melee, flying, and ranged troops. If something gets past my swordsmen, griffins and archers, well, that's when that stack of 350 peasants finally finds something to do.

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    So, I'm liking the game, but there's just something about the way it feels.

    It just seems like I'm pitting my numbers against their numbers. I know this is pretty much how games work, but in, say, Civ 5, I can actually imagine my archers are pelting the enemy spearman and then my swordsman are moving in for the kills. In this game it just feels like I'm hitting you with my 60 damage to knock your 100 life down. There's a disconnect with the world. Maybe the presentation just doesn't do it for me, but I don't know.

    Of course, for actual gameplay, it is a success. Would recommend.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    That's how Heroes of Might and Magic games have always been. Its always bring more of your dudes if you can, but the placement and maneuvering is always important.

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    No no, that's not what I mean. I mean I don't think of it as "I'll use my superior stack of Tormentors to beat your smaller stack of Sisters" I mean its just "I have enough damage to remover your damage so I can win the battle." I guess what I mean is that I don't see them as unique units in this game, just, different numbers.

    Like I said, that's just a personal thing. It plays fun as hell.

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    SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    I play with Quick Combat on because the battles are meh

    but I've always thought the battles were meh, even in H3

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    Drake ChambersDrake Chambers Lay out my formal shorts. Registered User regular
    Docshifty wrote:
    No no, that's not what I mean. I mean I don't think of it as "I'll use my superior stack of Tormentors to beat your smaller stack of Sisters" I mean its just "I have enough damage to remover your damage so I can win the battle." I guess what I mean is that I don't see them as unique units in this game, just, different numbers.

    Like I said, that's just a personal thing. It plays fun as hell.

    I agree with this so far from playing the demo, and it's not the style of game at all - I think it's entirely the presentation.

    Someone said earlier that it felt "sterile" and I think I know what they meant. Aesthetically there's really a lot of open ground that all looks sort of same-ish. Compare artistically with the King's Bounty games and even previous HOMM titles this world really feels sort of pale.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm into the game and will shortly purchase the full version. So far I just feel it lacks the vibrancy of similar titles that came before it.

    One thing that really bugged me though, small detail though it is -- in the demo, there doesn't appear to be any sound for your hero's attack. Is that fixed in the full version?

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    SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    "Sterile" is a good way of putting it. I can't really put my finger on what it is, but there's something. Friend suggested it might just be the nostalgia factor kicking in. He may be right.

    Also, I'm pretty sure the hero attack has sound.

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    Kroyd_KrensonKroyd_Krenson Registered User regular
    I reached the "boss" fight in one of the scenarios, and he has thousands of units. Its not possible to win. Could it be because I took too long to get to him? Do I have to start over?

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Normal creatures on the map grow in numbers the longer they're left alone. I don't know if scenario bosses do or not though. Maybe restart and just rush right too him. If his numbers are significantly less, you'll know.

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    Kroyd_KrensonKroyd_Krenson Registered User regular
    That's the thing, you can't rush to him. Gotta eliminate two other factions first, and then a gate opens. And he is not just a pack on the map, he's in a castle and all. I don't think I have the energy to start all over again. Might just go do another campaign.

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    ShutdownShutdown Registered User regular
    That's the thing, you can't rush to him. Gotta eliminate two other factions first, and then a gate opens. And he is not just a pack on the map, he's in a castle and all. I don't think I have the energy to start all over again. Might just go do another campaign.

    Is this the second map of the Santuary campaign? I had the same problem. Turns out if you've done the side quest to get the extra units (right after getting your second castle) then all you have to do is rock up to the last castle's gate and it'll go through a conversation... no fight needed.

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    Kroyd_KrensonKroyd_Krenson Registered User regular
    Naw, the hellfire campaign. Hellfire, hellborn, whichever. The demon dudes.

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    LanrutconLanrutcon The LabyrinthRegistered User regular
    I'm playing this and the overwhelming impression I'm left with is King's Bounty is just better. The combat in this feels so outdated (tactical combat? not so much) and the series hasn't changed with the times, leaving it bland and boring.

    Capture.jpg~original
    Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
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    ShutdownShutdown Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    So here's a question I have: How many dynasty weapons do people have?

    I've got 3 - Griff Sword, and 2 staves, one of them I think came from my copy being deluxe. I thought I read somewhere that another was supposed to unlock from the training campaign, and I know I found another in the second Sanctuary mission, yet neither of those have turned up.

    Just curious - I hope there's a decent number of them in the game and it's not just going to be something only available from DLC.

    Oh, and FU to the first Inferno mission, 3rd week in and a CPU rides in with twice the army (and I can't build shit). Goddamn trial-and-error missions.

    Shutdown on
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    ShutdownShutdown Registered User regular
    Wow, that first Inferno mission is crazy. 3 hours later, I managed to get a foothold with a lucky early fight and then hold in the center taking out red/orange as each came looking for the middle town. Sooner or later I had the XP and enough troops to roll one, then the other. Damn the CPU just pulls units out of it's ass....
    Took 8 months game time in the end, didn't know there's another colour sitting up in the corner just recruiting units the whole time. I feel tired now, that was a crazy long map. Although I can't shake the thought that it was just luck in the first 3 weeks.

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    ConstrictorConstrictor The Dork Knight SuburbialandRegistered User regular
    I finished the Necro campaign and started on the first map of the Sanctuary campaign. Dynasty rank 25 or so.

    Necro is SO powerful. You literally never lose units and if you do, you can buy them back with a special building.

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    azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So, I need some honest answers about this game.

    i've played all the M&M's and Kings Bounty's etc....now I've known for some time that they basically repackage the same gameplay and in many cases, the same story and units with new art and a few small gameplay changes and then add a new number to the title....That hasnt stopped me from playing them so dont read too much into that comment.

    Is this following that pattern or does it really have alot of new stuff added to the mix. I've got several games in the queue that will be taking up my time for at least a month and a half from now, (Batman, Uncharted, Zelda) but I'll probably consider picking it up later in the year so i wanna know how different it is.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    They've changed some things, particularly the way heroes level. You can choose exactly what you want to level up as opposed to hoping you get lucky and are able to choose it when you level up, like in 5. The units aren't just new art, but actually are different (At least, for Inferno, I don't know about the other factions). Dynasty level is an interesting addition.

    Its like HoMM6 is a less drastic Civ 5, in relation to the previous games. It makes a decent number of changes, but nothing so drastic as Firaxis did.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Most of the changes are smart ones. Especially with core, elite and champion units instead of tier 1-7. Makes early game units useful the whole way though generally.

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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    so just locked myself into a blood run... that i didnt want. ah well, orks will be orks i guess.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Well... if you hit 1000 tear rating you can switch. If you only JUST went blood (i.e. the first choice).

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    In fact there is a cheevo for doing so.

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    SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    I've found Tears to be most effective. Dunno why.

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    DrakmathusDrakmathus Registered User regular
    Shutdown wrote:
    even a map or 2 that's been revised.

    does it have dominion from homm 2?

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    LorekLorek Registered User regular
    I finished the Necro campaign and started on the first map of the Sanctuary campaign. Dynasty rank 25 or so.

    Necro is SO powerful. You literally never lose units and if you do, you can buy them back with a special building.

    Oh god, how did you beat the 3rd mission? I get all the way to Miranda at the end and she has 5x my units :( I own the rest of the map, if I just sit there will I eventually outnumber the boss?

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    ShutdownShutdown Registered User regular
    Tried first Necro, captured second castle, instantly a new CPU rolls out the gates and curb-stomps new castle, then rides a week and crushes the first.

    This is such a polar game to play for me - the concepts and strategy all make sense and look great but if the CPU is starting with triple the bases and a larger tech tree then there's no way I can stop that if they roll all that together.

    Am I the only one getting annihilated in these things? I get to the end and think "Wow, I just wasted 90 mins".

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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    gerbil. if thats the case, i may need to switch. I had no idea going blood would make me a complete asshole to everyone, just thought, hey, now im red and angry.

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    These missions need to either get a lot harder, or a lot fucking shorter.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    stopgap wrote:
    gerbil. if thats the case, i may need to switch. I had no idea going blood would make me a complete asshole to everyone, just thought, hey, now im red and angry.

    Does it make your character a complete dick? I haven't tried blood yet, maybe I should.

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    VicVic Registered User regular
    One question on this game, do you have to beat the race campaigns in order? That is literally a dealbreaker for me, if I have to play through the goddamn human campaign again to get to the undead campaign then I probably wont bother with the game at all.

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    Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    Vic wrote:
    One question on this game, do you have to beat the race campaigns in order? That is literally a dealbreaker for me, if I have to play through the goddamn human campaign again to get to the undead campaign then I probably wont bother with the game at all.

    No, you don't. Just have to do a couple tutorial maps as Haven. Then you can play whatever campaign you want.

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    VicVic Registered User regular
    Oh thank god, game on!

    Thanks for the info.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    Although they managed to make haven not boring as all get out in HoMM VI. They are actually fairly interesting to play this time around.

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Vi Monks wrote:
    Vic wrote:
    One question on this game, do you have to beat the race campaigns in order? That is literally a dealbreaker for me, if I have to play through the goddamn human campaign again to get to the undead campaign then I probably wont bother with the game at all.

    No, you don't. Just have to do a couple tutorial maps as Haven. Then you can play whatever campaign you want.

    Follow up: Is the story constructed like Starcraft?

    Meaning, you can play the campaigns in any order but it won't make sense unless you do it in a specific order. I don't want to go through Necro, Haven, and Sanctuary just for the Inferno to not feel like I started watching the middle of a movie.

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    Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    Docshifty wrote:
    Vi Monks wrote:
    Vic wrote:
    One question on this game, do you have to beat the race campaigns in order? That is literally a dealbreaker for me, if I have to play through the goddamn human campaign again to get to the undead campaign then I probably wont bother with the game at all.

    No, you don't. Just have to do a couple tutorial maps as Haven. Then you can play whatever campaign you want.

    Follow up: Is the story constructed like Starcraft?

    Meaning, you can play the campaigns in any order but it won't make sense unless you do it in a specific order. I don't want to go through Necro, Haven, and Sanctuary just for the Inferno to not feel like I started watching the middle of a movie.

    I'm not sure on that one. I'm not actually playing the game; my wife is. And she's only working on one campaign right now.

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    TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    No, they all occur simultaneously and fill in different parts of an overarching story but do not require a certain order.

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