Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Two people closed out a bar in a hotel and were in the same elevator on the way to their respective rooms. There is a valid discussion in here somewhere, but really?
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
A guy who was possibly also heading back to his room, and decided to take a shot at not doing so alone.
Alternately, a guy who found her attractive and decided to take a chance, and makes poor decision.
Your answer? A rapist. Because of the penis.
Keep in mind, this was the hotel bar (no dark alleys). The hotel where they were staying. It's not like he stalked her for six blocks.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Socially awkward guys who think they have nothing to lose. "I can talk to this girl and maybe now's not the right time, but at least she'll remember me later, which is more than would happen if I say nothing at all."
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Two people closed out a bar in a hotel and were in the same elevator on the way to their respective rooms. There is a valid discussion in here somewhere, but really?
Yes, really. Because of the misandry. Also not a word, BTW.
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
Where'd you get the follow part from?
In the video she says "A Man got on an elevator with me".
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
To be fair, the bar closed at 3:30 and they were both on their way back to their room... I'm not actually sure who this is being fair to because it seems like a totally legit way to meet someone.
Apricot, please understand that I'm not trying to get all anti-anything here, but how could someone approach you for instance in a way that doesn't creep you out?
Seriously, if at a hotel at a conference after closing down the bar is not a legitimate place to maybe give meeting somebody a shot...well, a lot of people have been doing it wrong. A lot of people.
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
A guy who was possibly also heading back to his room, and decided to take a shot at not doing so alone.
Alternately, a guy who found her attractive and decided to take a chance, and makes poor decision.
Your answer? A rapist. Because of the penis.
Keep in mind, this was the hotel bar (no dark alleys). The hotel where they were staying. It's not like he stalked her for six blocks.
He could have asked to sit in the lobby, or the foyer area, where there are still tables and chairs and a generally open area. I would have thought it crazy weird to ask someone I just met to come back to my room, male OR female.
I also probably wouldn't have led with "I find you interesting," because that sounds like something a scientist would say to a paramecium they're looking at through a microscope.
There's a whole lot of social inadequacies bumping into each other in that elevator with all the softness of a tectonic fissure.
right, so no woman never has the right to feel the slightest bit vulnerable ANY time a guy propositions her ever.
nothing bad has ever happened from a man expressing an interest in a woman and being turned down
all men are decent, thoughtful people who dont ever hate women ever.
No one has said that at any point.
You seem to have trouble with various logical fallacies.
well you all seem to think i said all men are rapists, so i thought i'd return the argument twisting
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well, he was talking to her whilst in the possession of a penis. Obviously, he was trying to perpetuate rape culture. I mean it was at FOUR O'CLOCK in the morning. Who talks to someone at A BAR at 4:00AM unless they're threatening mans looking to fuck or [strike]sluts[/strike] enlightened feminists.
who follows a woman out of a bar at 4 am when she has announced that she is going to go sleep, and when they are alone with her, asks her back to his room?
A guy who was possibly also heading back to his room, and decided to take a shot at not doing so alone.
Alternately, a guy who found her attractive and decided to take a chance, and makes poor decision.
Your answer? A rapist. Because of the penis.
Keep in mind, this was the hotel bar (no dark alleys). The hotel where they were staying. It's not like he stalked her for six blocks.
He could have asked to sit in the lobby, or the foyer area, where there are still tables and chairs and a generally open area. I would have thought it crazy weird to ask someone I just met to come back to my room, male OR female.
Well, he probably wanted to fuck. I'm not assuming he was actually shooting for a late-night conversation over coffee. If she didn't want to fuck, and didn't want to have to deal with turning down the eventual more open sexual advance(s), she made a good decision.
I also probably wouldn't have led with "I find you interesting," because that sounds like something a scientist would say to a paramecium they're looking at through a microscope.
There's a whole lot of social inadequacies bumping into each other in that elevator with all the softness of a tectonic fissure.
Well yeah. But do you think being frightened of being forcibly raped is a reasonable response? I mean, just curious, since we're on that tangent at the moment.
There's two people in that elevator, right? Her response is a part of the shared social inadequacies that led to this discussion we're having. His approach, her response. Both of them are chock-full of social ineptitude and bad judgment.
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well to be fair she said all it takes was approaching in an area where she has an easy avenue of escape.
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
I think this whole event is symptomatic of a much bigger societal phenomenon that may take years to properly dissemble and comprehend.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
There's two people in that elevator, right? Her response is a part of the shared social inadequacies that led to this discussion we're having. His approach, her response. Both of them are chock-full of social ineptitude and bad judgment.
YES! Thank you.
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
And in response to the "stuck in an elevator with no easy escape". There are two people on the elevator. Assuming this isn't powered by a lazy ox on a rope pulley this situation is awkward for a maximum of 5 mississippis from when he finishes talking.
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well to be fair she said all it takes was approaching in an area where she has an easy avenue of escape.
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
So much this. If you're going to do this shit, do it out in the open.
And in response to the "stuck in an elevator with no easy escape". There are two people on the elevator. Assuming this isn't powered by a lazy ox on a rope pulley this situation is awkward for a maximum of 10 mississippis.
Could be a slow elevator. Upwards of fourteen mississippis.
And I'll point out (to Fatboy Roberts) that it's implied that this was one of the dudes from the bar...so, like, he just spent a bunch of time with her out in a public area with lots of people around. Why didn't he proposition her then? Maybe he was worried about getting shot down in front of a bunch of people. Or didn't see a chance to do it nonchalantly.
Maybe he should have waited until they hit her floor, so she could easily bail? Sure.
But, like, 90% of her freak-out is just over being hit on (and sexualized) at all. He could have hit on her in the lobby, before she hit the elevator, and she'd have almost certainly been upset then, too.
This is a woman that basically has decided that single people hitting on single people at a convention after a night of drinks is a misogynist plot. She's like a caricature of feminist bloggers.
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well to be fair she said all it takes was approaching in an area where she has an easy avenue of escape.
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
So much this. If you're going to do this shit, do it out in the open.
I find the comparison of the elevator story to that It's Always Sunny video to be ludicrous.
I also find equating alone (in a hotel full of people, mind) with "cornered" to be a bit much.
I mean, sure maybe he propositioned her in the elevator because he knew the fear would lead her to meekly head back to his hotel room for sex that she wasn't really okay with, for fear that the alternative would be getting clubbed over the head, dragged down the hall, and raped to death. Maybe.
Or maybe, you know, he was interested in her from back at the bar and it was the first chance he felt he had (or the last chance he thought he'd get) to maybe try and make a pass without the risk of being shot down in front of the whole crowd.
Either way, even making the pass makes him a misogynist asshole, as far as she's concerned. Lobby, bar, elevator, wherever. But, of course, having a penis makes it even scarier in the elevator, what with all men being rapists.
But I'm not applauding her reaction, McDermott. Both of my responses to this thread have made no mention of letting EITHER side off the hook for their societal goofs. Lets say he got scared that if he approached her while the bar was open, he might get embarrassed. So he followed her to an elevator, waited til the door closed, said "I find you interesting" and then asked her to come back to his room. She responded by thinking him some sort of sexual predator, went back to her room, and posted a youtube video of her reaction so as to validate her decision via youtube/blog comments.
These are both pretty bad calls. I don't know if banging down the gavel and deciding which bad call was the worse one is as productive as recognizing the shit judgment on both sides.
Haven't we already had a million threads about the feminist blogosphere saying pretty much this kind of thing, and all come to the same conclusion in every thread?
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well to be fair she said all it takes was approaching in an area where she has an easy avenue of escape.
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
So much this. If you're going to do this shit, do it out in the open.
I find the comparison of the elevator story to that It's Always Sunny video to be ludicrous.
I also find equating alone (in a hotel full of people, mind) with "cornered" to be a bit much.
I mean, sure maybe he propositioned her in the elevator because he knew the fear would lead her to meekly head back to his hotel room for sex that she wasn't really okay with, for fear that the alternative would be getting clubbed over the head, dragged down the hall, and raped to death. Maybe.
Or maybe, you know, he was interested in her from back at the bar and it was the first chance he felt he had (or the last chance he thought he'd get) to maybe try and make a pass without the risk of being shot down in front of the whole crowd.
Either way, even making the pass makes him a misogynist asshole, as far as she's concerned. Lobby, bar, elevator, wherever. But, of course, having a penis makes it even scarier in the elevator, what with all men being rapists.
you need to calm down and re-read some things, because afaik, the lady didn't imply he was a potential rapist or anything of the sort. seems like her argument is related to the whole "i am not open to being hit on all the time". i mean, they were in an elevator, there's a social code to shut up and watch the numbers.
Like, she didn't stab him. She just said "It's interesting that I felt uncomfortable, but he didn't".
Maybe I just haven't read enough to hate on her proper.
I don't know, is there a bit in her article where she mentions believing all men are rapists?
Here's a different topic: Female friend of mine gets cat-called a lot, by creepy old guys at corner store, by stereotypical construction workers near house, by lots of people.
The most common response to any complaint about that has been "oh honey, you'll miss it when you're old and ugly!". I think that seems kind of crazy. The cat calling seems less complimentary and more something I would find incredibly creepy if it was happening to me.
In sum, men who corner women know what they're doing. And yes, they are relying on the fear of rape to grease the wheels towards getting laid. Rebecca may not have put it that way, but being a mean ol' feminist bitch, I'm happy to say it. Also: duh. It also strikes me, in my dealing with geek culture, that there's a taboo against rejecting someone, and creepy dudes also are happy to exploit that, knowing that women who reject them will be condemned for violating the "don't be judgmental" rule.
Wow... that sure is an opinion.
Shit, I guess one of my top ten albums of all time promoted rape culture. Didn't know that.
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well to be fair she said all it takes was approaching in an area where she has an easy avenue of escape.
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
So much this. If you're going to do this shit, do it out in the open.
I find the comparison of the elevator story to that It's Always Sunny video to be ludicrous.
I also find equating alone (in a hotel full of people, mind) with "cornered" to be a bit much.
I mean, sure maybe he propositioned her in the elevator because he knew the fear would lead her to meekly head back to his hotel room for sex that she wasn't really okay with, for fear that the alternative would be getting clubbed over the head, dragged down the hall, and raped to death. Maybe.
Or maybe, you know, he was interested in her from back at the bar and it was the first chance he felt he had (or the last chance he thought he'd get) to maybe try and make a pass without the risk of being shot down in front of the whole crowd.
Either way, even making the pass makes him a misogynist asshole, as far as she's concerned. Lobby, bar, elevator, wherever. But, of course, having a penis makes it even scarier in the elevator, what with all men being rapists.
you need to calm down and re-read some things, because afaik, the lady didn't imply he was a potential rapist or anything of the sort. seems like her argument is related to the whole "i am not open to being hit on all the time". i mean, they were in an elevator, there's a social code to shut up and watch the numbers.
I think some of us are projecting a lot of stuff from Apricot's responses here to Rebecca, the girl in the video. Also, she didn't run to her room to put the issue on Youtube. Apparently she regularly does vblogs and talked about this situation during one of her normal updates. It amounted to a couple of minutes in an 8 minute video.
you need to calm down and re-read some things, because afaik, the lady didn't imply he was a potential rapist or anything of the sort. seems like her argument is related to the whole "i am not open to being hit on all the time". i mean, they were in an elevator, there's a social code to shut up and watch the numbers.
She specifically goes into the whole "single woman alone, in a foreign country, at 4am, in an elevator" bit...I'd say the implication was there.
I also like that she assumes he wasn't uncomfortable, but that his desire for her company (whether looking to fuck or talk, though presumably the former) caused him to overcome it. But I don't know the dude, so maybe she was right on that front.
Posts
A guy who was possibly also heading back to his room, and decided to take a shot at not doing so alone.
Alternately, a guy who found her attractive and decided to take a chance, and makes poor decision.
Your answer? A rapist. Because of the penis.
Keep in mind, this was the hotel bar (no dark alleys). The hotel where they were staying. It's not like he stalked her for six blocks.
Socially awkward guys who think they have nothing to lose. "I can talk to this girl and maybe now's not the right time, but at least she'll remember me later, which is more than would happen if I say nothing at all."
I have.
Yes, really. Because of the misandry. Also not a word, BTW.
3DS FC: 2148-8300-8608 WiiU: AgahnimD
Someone who is staying in the same building?
You're right.
They'd need to be in an elevator with a race they're irrationally afraid of.
Ayup.
Where'd you get the follow part from?
In the video she says "A Man got on an elevator with me".
Seriously, if at a hotel at a conference after closing down the bar is not a legitimate place to maybe give meeting somebody a shot...well, a lot of people have been doing it wrong. A lot of people.
"Could you press 4 please?"
"Sure."
"Thanks."
"Hey, that's a nice jacket."
oh shit i'm getting mugged ..."Thanks."
nothing bad has ever happened from a man expressing an interest in a woman and being turned down
all men are decent, thoughtful people who dont ever hate women ever.
seeing as we're so busy putting words into each others mouths im going to sod off and go to sleep because its 3am
Man, you even hate straw men?
No one has said that at any point.
You seem to have trouble with various logical fallacies.
He could have asked to sit in the lobby, or the foyer area, where there are still tables and chairs and a generally open area. I would have thought it crazy weird to ask someone I just met to come back to my room, male OR female.
I also probably wouldn't have led with "I find you interesting," because that sounds like something a scientist would say to a paramecium they're looking at through a microscope.
There's a whole lot of social inadequacies bumping into each other in that elevator with all the softness of a tectonic fissure.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
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well you all seem to think i said all men are rapists, so i thought i'd return the argument twisting
It's another thing to choose to post a video of yourself on the internet about it.
But from the information we have that is hardly the case here.
A guy politely expressed interest in what may have been a slightly inappropriate setting.
Her reaction is way over the top and her whole "dude is out to get me" shit is unbecoming a feminist.
Hypothetical: I see you in a random place and for some reason find you interesting. It could be I heard you in a panel, you could have a tattoo of an Okapi which happens to be my favorite animal, whatever. How do I talk to you without creeping you out?
Well, he probably wanted to fuck. I'm not assuming he was actually shooting for a late-night conversation over coffee. If she didn't want to fuck, and didn't want to have to deal with turning down the eventual more open sexual advance(s), she made a good decision.
Socially inept, sure. Rapist? Nope. Misogynist? Apparently.
Well yeah. But do you think being frightened of being forcibly raped is a reasonable response? I mean, just curious, since we're on that tangent at the moment.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
So, follow her until she gets into such a place, then talk to her. Much less creepy that way.
YES! Thank you.
So much this. If you're going to do this shit, do it out in the open.
More on the matter from Pandagon.
Edit: This video is in the link I posted, but it bears showing here:
It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia explains the entire situation in a nutshell.
Could be a slow elevator. Upwards of fourteen mississippis.
And I'll point out (to Fatboy Roberts) that it's implied that this was one of the dudes from the bar...so, like, he just spent a bunch of time with her out in a public area with lots of people around. Why didn't he proposition her then? Maybe he was worried about getting shot down in front of a bunch of people. Or didn't see a chance to do it nonchalantly.
Maybe he should have waited until they hit her floor, so she could easily bail? Sure.
But, like, 90% of her freak-out is just over being hit on (and sexualized) at all. He could have hit on her in the lobby, before she hit the elevator, and she'd have almost certainly been upset then, too.
This is a woman that basically has decided that single people hitting on single people at a convention after a night of drinks is a misogynist plot. She's like a caricature of feminist bloggers.
I find the comparison of the elevator story to that It's Always Sunny video to be ludicrous.
I also find equating alone (in a hotel full of people, mind) with "cornered" to be a bit much.
I mean, sure maybe he propositioned her in the elevator because he knew the fear would lead her to meekly head back to his hotel room for sex that she wasn't really okay with, for fear that the alternative would be getting clubbed over the head, dragged down the hall, and raped to death. Maybe.
Or maybe, you know, he was interested in her from back at the bar and it was the first chance he felt he had (or the last chance he thought he'd get) to maybe try and make a pass without the risk of being shot down in front of the whole crowd.
Either way, even making the pass makes him a misogynist asshole, as far as she's concerned. Lobby, bar, elevator, wherever. But, of course, having a penis makes it even scarier in the elevator, what with all men being rapists.
These are both pretty bad calls. I don't know if banging down the gavel and deciding which bad call was the worse one is as productive as recognizing the shit judgment on both sides.
Geek: Remixed - A Decade's worth of ruined pop culture memories
Xbox Live - Fatboy PDX
you need to calm down and re-read some things, because afaik, the lady didn't imply he was a potential rapist or anything of the sort. seems like her argument is related to the whole "i am not open to being hit on all the time". i mean, they were in an elevator, there's a social code to shut up and watch the numbers.
Like, she didn't stab him. She just said "It's interesting that I felt uncomfortable, but he didn't".
Maybe I just haven't read enough to hate on her proper.
I don't know, is there a bit in her article where she mentions believing all men are rapists?
Here's a different topic: Female friend of mine gets cat-called a lot, by creepy old guys at corner store, by stereotypical construction workers near house, by lots of people.
The most common response to any complaint about that has been "oh honey, you'll miss it when you're old and ugly!". I think that seems kind of crazy. The cat calling seems less complimentary and more something I would find incredibly creepy if it was happening to me.
Wow... that sure is an opinion.
Shit, I guess one of my top ten albums of all time promoted rape culture. Didn't know that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xslUOzmDVjA&feature=fvwrel
Skip to :41 for the horrible and terrorizing objectification of Anna Waronker.
Or, for that matter, realistically faces this situation?
Thank goodness we know she might be getting hit on all the time.
It must be awful to have that sort of potential.
And post videos about it, so everyone knows.
The important thing is that you know she's getting hit on too much, whoever you are.
She specifically goes into the whole "single woman alone, in a foreign country, at 4am, in an elevator" bit...I'd say the implication was there.
I also like that she assumes he wasn't uncomfortable, but that his desire for her company (whether looking to fuck or talk, though presumably the former) caused him to overcome it. But I don't know the dude, so maybe she was right on that front.
Or, comically, less acceptable to hit on.
Misogyny.