The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Honestly 0.5% is a lot more than I would have expected. My guess was 0.1%. 0.5 sounds kind of reasonable.
I had no idea that they were planning a manned mission to land on an asteroid and orbit mars, that's really cool. And is the MPCV powered by nuclear bombs like Orion was?
Personally, I think the stuff NASA does is among the most important work being done on the planet, and if I were God-Emperor I'd increase their budget like 500%. But that's me.
I think that NASA is falling to the wayside due to the onward march of privatization ideology. Instead of space exploration for science, for invention, for discovery, for the people, we're back to good old who can bank the most green into their pockets off it.
JebusUD on
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Personally, I think the stuff NASA does is among the most important work being done on the planet, and if I were God-Emperor I'd increase their budget like 500%. But that's me.
I would definitely agree with this with respect to the cool space science stuff and robots! division of NASA. The manned division not so much. There are certainly benefits that arise from them and emergent technology that comes from addressing the impact of having to create a completely sustainable environment for humans in the vast void of space, but not nearly as much as some of the more awesome unmanned stuff. So, frankly, I'm not all that bummed by it taking awhile for us to see somebody golf on Mars. Threats to the funding of new satellite infrastructure and advancing telescopes &c. is far more troubling.
The satellites we use for most of our weather and meteorological data is well past its effective lifetime, isn't it? Never mind the advances in computing we've had since it was launched. That's kind of fucked up. Kind of really fucked up.
The United State's participation in manned spaceflight is over.
Remember that the space shuttle was in part a Department of Defense project and justified part of its cost through a series of classified missions to launch spy satellites. Now that the DoD has its own robotic shuttle program, NASA can't twist any arms in congress with the national security angle.
At this point, I think that space enthusiasts in the US should focus their efforts on trying to save the James Webb Telescope and pray for the success of private ventures.
[Edit]- In retrospect, the US's commitment to space ended when we no longer had enough pride in ourselves to keep painting the shuttle's fuel tank white.
Personally, I think the stuff NASA does is among the most important work being done on the planet, and if I were God-Emperor I'd increase their budget like 500%. But that's me.
I would definitely agree with this with respect to the cool space science stuff and robots! division of NASA. The manned division not so much. There are certainly benefits that arise from them and emergent technology that comes from addressing the impact of having to create a completely sustainable environment for humans in the vast void of space, but not nearly as much as some of the more awesome unmanned stuff. So, frankly, I'm not all that bummed by it taking awhile for us to see somebody golf on Mars. Threats to the funding of new satellite infrastructure and advancing telescopes &c. is far more troubling.
The satellites we use for most of our weather and meteorological data is well past its effective lifetime, isn't it? Never mind the advances in computing we've had since it was launched. That's kind of fucked up. Kind of really fucked up.
I think the intangibles of a (competent, extensive) manned program utterly outweigh the costs. The number of kids you get excited about science and math with "you could design a robot that explores Mars!" is way, way lower than the number you get with "You could explore Mars!"
I really, really want a permanent, manned, off-planet settlement by the time my grandkids are old enough to want to go there. I'll take orbitals if we can't hack it on the Moon or Mars. Entirely aside from the possible benefits of low-gravity construction and medicine and so forth, I want some goddamn asteroid insurance.
The United State's participation in manned spaceflight is over.
Remember that the space shuttle was in part a Department of Defense project and justified part of its cost through a series of classified missions to launch spy satellites. Now that the DoD has its own robotic shuttle program, NASA can't twist any arms in congress with the national security angle.
At this point, I think that space enthusiasts in the US should focus their efforts on trying to save the James Webb Telescope and pray for the success of private ventures.
[Edit]- In retrospect, the US's commitment to space ended when we no longer had enough pride in ourselves to keep painting the shuttle's fuel tank white.
THATS CUSE ERE TAINT NO TURRORISTS IN SPACE!
This is entirely the reason why the space budget shrinks and shrinks every year.
So no one has quoted the space core from Portal 2 yet? For shame.
I guess maybe NASA should start charging for corporations to use their inventions to help pay for stuff. It would go right along with this "privatization" thing.
So no one has quoted the space core from Portal 2 yet? For shame.
I guess maybe NASA should start charging for corporations to use their inventions to help pay for stuff. It would go right along with this "privatization" thing.
Except anything done by NASA would be US Government Work and so non-copyrightable.
Does anybody know if any networks are going to be showing the launch live? A quick google tells me that a couple of networks are going to have shows about it (NBC, Fox News, CNN, MSNBC) but checking my tv's guide thing I dont see anything...
I'm just going to jump right into the fire here and say:
Yeah, okay, 0.5% of the budget is pretty mean, but the truth of the matter is that NASA for a long time now has not been managing itself properly when it comes to finances. It's projects have been extremely expensive over-budgeted messes that culminate from poor decision making. If NASA is to ever go any further it needs to do a proper accounting of itself.
Just bear in mind that, while 0.5% sounds small, in dollar terms they're getting more (about $20 billion) than some entire state governments get. They're also getting more than, say, the department of labor.
So Im currently watching the feed of the launch on Nasa's website. Whoever is talking right now, I think Mission Control, sounds like a fucking airline pilot. I mean, tone, notification of expected take off time, destination, etc. Im pretty sure hes going to tell me that hes going to turn on the seat belt sign and Im going to have to remain seated until he turns the light off at which point I'll be free to move about the cabin.
One thing I do not understand about the end of the shuttle program is that they are going to scrap them entirely. Before another system is up and running for NASA to use.
I mean they are not even going to have a back-up on the launch pad this time and if anything goes wrong we will need the Russia program. Is it too much to just say, hey, JUST IN CASE, let's keep one more operating as backup for a couple more weeks.
How much control and oversight will NASA have over the private launch vehicles to ensure the safety of their equipment and personnel as it goes up? Considering Halliburton and government military contractors I am gonna guess 0.
Void Slayer on
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
I'd like the US to push space exploration again. NASA needs a bigger budget and an overhaul of management / practices that I just don't think will happen, though, so I am more pushing for private companies. I am heartbroken not that the shuttle program is ending (I'll agree it is past its prime) but that they are nowhere close to replacing it. I expect a ton of talent flight from NASA to the private sector, which will further hurt the agency.
I'm just dumbfounded that the country that went from nothing to putting a man on the fucking moon in ten years time will not be able to even put a man in space for at least several years.
Maybe if China's program makes some notable progress we can get the jumpstart we need.
Of course, I'm also of the opinion that science and technology funding in general should be a major priority for the US, but maybe that just comes from playing 4x games and wiping the floor with everyone just because my stuff is SO MUCH BETTER.
Tomanta on
0
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
It will never cease to amaze me that we have the power to go to space. It just never seems like a real thing.
...and that there are tons of people who are still like "Space? Meh. What a waste of time and money."
I say take that money and spend it. For SCIENCE!
And those people are idiots. Face it, we aren't disposed to conquer the world and win a military victory, and our hopes of a diplomatic victory are pretty slim since we keep pissing off other countries. But damn, if we put our minds to it we could be the first to Alpha Centauri.
So NASA wants to switch to "deep space" exploration, but since when was the moon/Mars deep space?
EDIT: Oh, and about the external tank not being painted white, apparently it was unnecessary and by not painting it, Lockheed Martin reduced its weight by 600lbs. Thats a lotta paint.
I basically think NASA killed itself when it did such a hard switch over to propes/sensors/rovers/satilites. I appreciate the merit of pure science, but there's no thrill. Launching another probe so astrophysics camp A can argue with camp B some more over obscure theory #89 is dull.
This is an organization that used to recruit its space crews from test pilots who wanted a more thrilling job. The missions you choose, the way you spend resources changes when you shift from fighter jocks to geologists.
Every probe/sensor/robot is X millions of dollars that isn't going into a moonbase or a Mars mission. I think its actually worse than that because a sensor that detects Anti-matter, Dark matter, and quarks is of great interest to 1% of the population, probably much less than that. A Mars landing, a moonbase, hell even going back to the moon in prep of the base will generate rapt attention.
tinwhiskers on
0
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Im sure the first and last launches of the space shuttle was viewed by millions. The intermediate launches? Not so much.
Also, youd think with a budget of almost $20 million they could afford a better webcam, that picture could have been from the 70s and I wouldnt have been able to tell the difference.
I can't help but think NASA should have engaged in some more showy space cowboy stuff from time to time.
Sure it may have weak scientific merit but people fucking love it.
That and science is a great thing to take national pride in.
I totally agree. But at the same time I have an idea for what they could do thats both super sciency and super cool at the same time. Two words: Moon. Base. If you need 3, Moon. Fucking. Base. They could spend all day making sand castles and breaking rocks for all I care, but if we have a fucking moon base Im pretty sure people will start thinking we live in a more futuristic era than we actually do.
Manned spaceflight is way too expensive right now. Give the world a couple of decades to shake off this dip and manned spaceflight will be back in the pink. For now it's all about the robots. I really hope I live long enough to see a manned mission to Mars although we've already done so much there with robots it would take a ridiculously rich world to embark upon such a venture. I think it all boils down to energy tech. Cheap energy will make the world richer and the trip cheaper. Both these things need to happen for a Mars trip.
themightypuck on
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
A moon base would be prohibitively expensive though. I wouldn't even dare to calculate the cost. The ISS is only 400km above us, and even that is eating a huge budget, even supported by ESA and the Russians. Having to transport all that food to the moon, ugh. And you can't do the 0g experiments they do on the ISS.
I would say Hubble is the greatest success imaginable. It has made a million pictures of the sky, at a clarity that can never be gotten on Earth. Some of these are of unimaginable beauty. And it's probably the biggest single contributor to the huge boom in astronomy we've been seeing lately.
And it's part of NASAs success in another way: The original telescope had the flawed mirror (which is a story of pretty epic failure), and it was solved by ingenuity, very smart science (They basicly installed the "anti-flaw"), the spaceshuttle and astronauts. I still remember the many jokes on the subject, and now it has seen objects within a few hundred million years of the start of the universe.
Manned spaceflight is way too expensive right now. Give the world a couple of decades to shake off this dip and manned spaceflight will be back in the pink. For now it's all about the robots. I really hope I live long enough to see a manned mission to Mars although we've already done so much there with robots it would take a ridiculously rich world to embark upon such a venture. I think it all boils down to energy tech. Cheap energy will make the world richer and the trip cheaper. Both these things need to happen for a Mars trip.
The world is literally a factor of 10 richer than when the space race began. The issue isn't does the money exist, the issue is does it make sense to spend it on a moon base. Aside from the braggadocio of having a fucking moon base, I don't really see it.
Posts
I had no idea that they were planning a manned mission to land on an asteroid and orbit mars, that's really cool. And is the MPCV powered by nuclear bombs like Orion was?
Personally, I think the stuff NASA does is among the most important work being done on the planet, and if I were God-Emperor I'd increase their budget like 500%. But that's me.
but they're listening to every word I say
I would definitely agree with this with respect to the cool space science stuff and robots! division of NASA. The manned division not so much. There are certainly benefits that arise from them and emergent technology that comes from addressing the impact of having to create a completely sustainable environment for humans in the vast void of space, but not nearly as much as some of the more awesome unmanned stuff. So, frankly, I'm not all that bummed by it taking awhile for us to see somebody golf on Mars. Threats to the funding of new satellite infrastructure and advancing telescopes &c. is far more troubling.
The satellites we use for most of our weather and meteorological data is well past its effective lifetime, isn't it? Never mind the advances in computing we've had since it was launched. That's kind of fucked up. Kind of really fucked up.
Remember that the space shuttle was in part a Department of Defense project and justified part of its cost through a series of classified missions to launch spy satellites. Now that the DoD has its own robotic shuttle program, NASA can't twist any arms in congress with the national security angle.
At this point, I think that space enthusiasts in the US should focus their efforts on trying to save the James Webb Telescope and pray for the success of private ventures.
[Edit]- In retrospect, the US's commitment to space ended when we no longer had enough pride in ourselves to keep painting the shuttle's fuel tank white.
I think the intangibles of a (competent, extensive) manned program utterly outweigh the costs. The number of kids you get excited about science and math with "you could design a robot that explores Mars!" is way, way lower than the number you get with "You could explore Mars!"
I really, really want a permanent, manned, off-planet settlement by the time my grandkids are old enough to want to go there. I'll take orbitals if we can't hack it on the Moon or Mars. Entirely aside from the possible benefits of low-gravity construction and medicine and so forth, I want some goddamn asteroid insurance.
THATS CUSE ERE TAINT NO TURRORISTS IN SPACE!
This is entirely the reason why the space budget shrinks and shrinks every year.
I guess maybe NASA should start charging for corporations to use their inventions to help pay for stuff. It would go right along with this "privatization" thing.
Except anything done by NASA would be US Government Work and so non-copyrightable.
Yeah, okay, 0.5% of the budget is pretty mean, but the truth of the matter is that NASA for a long time now has not been managing itself properly when it comes to finances. It's projects have been extremely expensive over-budgeted messes that culminate from poor decision making. If NASA is to ever go any further it needs to do a proper accounting of itself.
I mean they are not even going to have a back-up on the launch pad this time and if anything goes wrong we will need the Russia program. Is it too much to just say, hey, JUST IN CASE, let's keep one more operating as backup for a couple more weeks.
How much control and oversight will NASA have over the private launch vehicles to ensure the safety of their equipment and personnel as it goes up? Considering Halliburton and government military contractors I am gonna guess 0.
Hilarious, isn't it? :P
The little thread that died of ignorance.
I'm just dumbfounded that the country that went from nothing to putting a man on the fucking moon in ten years time will not be able to even put a man in space for at least several years.
Maybe if China's program makes some notable progress we can get the jumpstart we need.
Of course, I'm also of the opinion that science and technology funding in general should be a major priority for the US, but maybe that just comes from playing 4x games and wiping the floor with everyone just because my stuff is SO MUCH BETTER.
http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv
Steam | Twitter
...and that there are tons of people who are still like "Space? Meh. What a waste of time and money."
I say take that money and spend it. For SCIENCE!
Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!
And those people are idiots. Face it, we aren't disposed to conquer the world and win a military victory, and our hopes of a diplomatic victory are pretty slim since we keep pissing off other countries. But damn, if we put our minds to it we could be the first to Alpha Centauri.
EDIT: Oh, and about the external tank not being painted white, apparently it was unnecessary and by not painting it, Lockheed Martin reduced its weight by 600lbs. Thats a lotta paint.
This is an organization that used to recruit its space crews from test pilots who wanted a more thrilling job. The missions you choose, the way you spend resources changes when you shift from fighter jocks to geologists.
Every probe/sensor/robot is X millions of dollars that isn't going into a moonbase or a Mars mission. I think its actually worse than that because a sensor that detects Anti-matter, Dark matter, and quarks is of great interest to 1% of the population, probably much less than that. A Mars landing, a moonbase, hell even going back to the moon in prep of the base will generate rapt attention.
Also, youd think with a budget of almost $20 million they could afford a better webcam, that picture could have been from the 70s and I wouldnt have been able to tell the difference.
Yea, that's a one day deal. People haven't given a shit about space for a while.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Sure it may have weak scientific merit but people fucking love it.
That and science is a great thing to take national pride in.
Also: meet Space Sphere's distant cousins :P, powered by Android:
http://www.geek.com/articles/geek-cetera/nexus-s-to-serve-as-brain-for-3-robots-aboard-the-iss-2011078/
I totally agree. But at the same time I have an idea for what they could do thats both super sciency and super cool at the same time. Two words: Moon. Base. If you need 3, Moon. Fucking. Base. They could spend all day making sand castles and breaking rocks for all I care, but if we have a fucking moon base Im pretty sure people will start thinking we live in a more futuristic era than we actually do.
I want a fucking moon base.
But it isn't going to happen until China (more likely) or Russia (less likely) get there first.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
I would say Hubble is the greatest success imaginable. It has made a million pictures of the sky, at a clarity that can never be gotten on Earth. Some of these are of unimaginable beauty. And it's probably the biggest single contributor to the huge boom in astronomy we've been seeing lately.
And it's part of NASAs success in another way: The original telescope had the flawed mirror (which is a story of pretty epic failure), and it was solved by ingenuity, very smart science (They basicly installed the "anti-flaw"), the spaceshuttle and astronauts. I still remember the many jokes on the subject, and now it has seen objects within a few hundred million years of the start of the universe.
The world is literally a factor of 10 richer than when the space race began. The issue isn't does the money exist, the issue is does it make sense to spend it on a moon base. Aside from the braggadocio of having a fucking moon base, I don't really see it.