Can't you just split them into "Subs gone F2P" and "F2P from the start"? Seems to roughly split them.
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citizen059hello my name is citizenI'm from the InternetRegistered Userregular
@Aldo then don't compare them to each other. Rate them on their individual merits, like how fun they are, how accessible to new players, how "necessary" the cash shop is, etc.
I know, but I'm just so sick of only being able to play as anything but a human in these sci-fi games. It just annoys me greatly. I just HOPE I'd be able to at least pay a few bucks to unlock them.
Yeah, race is one of the bigger limiting factors for me. I'm not gonna shell out money without having played the game and I'm not all that eager to make yet another generic human space marine/fantasy warrior.
Come to think of it, scifi MMOs do seem to be extremely conservative when it comes to races. Which is somewhat ironic, given the setting, you'd think having all sorts of weird aliens and genetic modifications would make them more versatile than fantasy MMOs, not less.
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KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
3 things I can't stand in newly F2P MMOs.
1. Locking out classes.
2.Locking out social features
3. Locking out races
I love when the class restrictions are so strict that they basically strangle out the most interesting aspects of their game before players have even had a chance to try it-- like Champions Online not letting free players make their own power sets. Or EverQuest locking out everything but the most absolutely boring bog standard fantasy classes: Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
I'm just waiting for TOR's detailed restrictions to come out and it will basically be "You may make a Human Trooper. That's it."
There are upsides to CO's decision. The premade classes are actually functional without needing to invest a tonne of research into what combinations work, which skills are just plain shit and so on.
A major problem of that game at release was just how imbalanced the various ability trees were. If you got the wrong offensive skills you'd be significantly weaker, if you got the wrong defensive skills your character was often downright useless.
This way, if you play the game and feel like you like the combat and want to experiment yourself you can subscribe and do so. You can already try (most?) of the trees in the premade classes anyway.
They also put up Freeform Character slots up for sale for those that want to do open-power characters but still not subscribe. And of course there's the Lifetime Subscription as well if you have enough faith in the game's staying power to make it worth it.
Considering SWTOR's races are not very different from each other besides some fluff dialogue in the first umpteen hours and they haven't specified what races will be behind a pay wall I don't see much of a point about being outraged about anything yet. For all we know this F2P change will come a long with a wide range of new races and F2Pers can only select the races that were in the game for the past year.
@citizen059 & @Glal : both sensible suggestions, I guess I like to compare stuff when they're so danged similar otherwise. Of course there's plenty of odd birds that are incomparable and I'll keep it that way. Also there's a few terrible subscription based games that went F2P and shortly after went the way of the dodo.
So at the behest of a bro of mine I downloaded Wakfu.
Like it a lot so far. Loved Dofus back in the day.
The subscription fee isn't an issue for me; but I wanted to ask here if it's worth my time before I throw money at it.
I'd hate to throw time and money into a flawed, dead, or dying game.
Considering the franchise's popularity I can't imagine they'd take the publicity hit and shut down one of their outlets any time soon. IMO it's not really worth your time *right now* for reasons I wrote on the previous page. But you know, they're adding stuff to the game all the time (a monastery with elderly monks in wheelchairs comes to mind) so maybe they will improve on the game some time as well.
So at the behest of a bro of mine I downloaded Wakfu.
Like it a lot so far. Loved Dofus back in the day.
The subscription fee isn't an issue for me; but I wanted to ask here if it's worth my time before I throw money at it.
I'd hate to throw time and money into a flawed, dead, or dying game.
Considering the franchise's popularity I can't imagine they'd take the publicity hit and shut down one of their outlets any time soon. IMO it's not really worth your time *right now* for reasons I wrote on the previous page. But you know, they're adding stuff to the game all the time (a monastery with elderly monks in wheelchairs comes to mind) so maybe they will improve on the game some time as well.
I wouldn't even know, I'm so out of the loop. I didn't even know the IP existed or was still a game until this morning, so that's all good to know.
Considering SWTOR's races are not very different from each other besides some fluff dialogue in the first umpteen hours and they haven't specified what races will be behind a pay wall I don't see much of a point about being outraged about anything yet. For all we know this F2P change will come a long with a wide range of new races and F2Pers can only select the races that were in the game for the past year.
Well, I know it's a bit too early, but the way they worded their feature matrix it basically says the option to even CHOOSE race is limited to subscribers.
Yeah, I think it's too early too to start raging against restrictions we don't know about. I doubt they'll go too far with them. Perhaps they'll go as far as CoH's but not farther then that.
Yeah, I think it's too early too to start raging against restrictions we don't know about. I doubt they'll go too far with them. Perhaps they'll go as far as CoH's but not farther then that.
I'm not sure it will ever make sense to rage about restrictions when the game is FREE.
@citizen059 & @Glal : both sensible suggestions, I guess I like to compare stuff when they're so danged similar otherwise. Of course there's plenty of odd birds that are incomparable and I'll keep it that way. Also there's a few terrible subscription based games that went F2P and shortly after went the way of the dodo.
I think the main difference between gone-free and always-free MMOs is just how the content is presented. If the game used to be a subscription MMO then it'll usually limit your races, classes, higher levels, content packs and so on. And, usually have a sub option that unlocks it all temporarily.
Always free on the other hand will give you all the content for free, then supplement the experience with an item mall that gives you QoL stuff. Sometimes there's pay to win in there, usually not these days.
So, the former can sometimes feel more like really lush demos, depending on just how restrictive they are, not at all on the basis of what you get in the package but what you don't get. Even if the F2P Asian MMO is smaller in every way, at least you don't feel like you're being gated.
citizen059 & Glal : both sensible suggestions, I guess I like to compare stuff when they're so danged similar otherwise. Of course there's plenty of odd birds that are incomparable and I'll keep it that way. Also there's a few terrible subscription based games that went F2P and shortly after went the way of the dodo.
I think the main difference between gone-free and always-free MMOs is just how the content is presented. If the game used to be a subscription MMO then it'll usually limit your races, classes, higher levels, content packs and so on. And, usually have a sub option that unlocks it all temporarily.
Always free on the other hand will give you all the content for free, then supplement the experience with an item mall that gives you QoL stuff. Sometimes there's pay to win in there, usually not these days.
So, the former can sometimes feel more like really lush demos, depending on just how restrictive they are, not at all on the basis of what you get in the package but what you don't get. Even if the F2P Asian MMO is smaller in every way, at least you don't feel like you're being gated.
I never really made a division between just how restrictive the free package is in a game, because it's hard to keep track of and is subject to change every day. Remember Allods being completely unplayable unless you bought some sort of buff item from the store? And then later they fixed that shit. I mean, I will have to rethink the purpose of this list sooner or later anyway. I started out as a simple list of suggestions for games you could play together with friends and strangers without having to spend money. Now that F2P is turning out to be a viable business model for companies like EA this list should perhaps also offer some advice re: what are actually good games to spend money on.
I mean, that's not how I used to play free games, but things are changing.
God, every time I think about this project I come up with more things I should do. I think first on the agenda would be a way to make Access output entries ready for copy/paste into a forum post. Will have to look into that soon.
...this list should perhaps also offer some advice re: what are actually good games to spend money on....
This should become a holy goal. I often toil with the idea of what I should spend money on.
I think from now on I am not going to reward companies who gate their basic content. I'll gladly buy "boosts" and neat looking vanity items, but I refuse to pay for classes and races. I even struggle with paying for dungeons and the like.
Anon the Felon on
+1
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I think it's too early too to start raging against restrictions we don't know about. I doubt they'll go too far with them. Perhaps they'll go as far as CoH's but not farther then that.
I'm not sure it will ever make sense to rage about restrictions when the game is FREE.
So, you're okay with not letting players private chat across the game world? You're okay with players not being able to make guilds? You're okay with being restricted from even joining guilds? You're okay with people locking out interesting classes with the only free options being bland generic ones you've seen in every MMO? You're okay with locking out content that isn't out of the way? You're okay with your friends list being limited? You're okay with simple things like zone chat, world chat, faction chat and such being cordoned off to F2P players?
I'm talking about in a general sense. Just because a game is free to play doesn't mean there shouldn't be at least a small standard of quality for a player's enjoyment, and that means less restrictions on big parts of your game.
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citizen059hello my name is citizenI'm from the InternetRegistered Userregular
I think both models are fine. Gotta keep in mind, an MMO originally designed around the monthly sub may not be that easy to change over into a "everything is free, buy boosters and costumes" model.
Turbine comes to mind with DDO/LotRO.
I would give many valuable things for them to convert Asheron's Call over to a similar model, but they keep saying they just can't because of the way the code is written.
I think both models are fine. Gotta keep in mind, an MMO originally designed around the monthly sub may not be that easy to change over into a "everything is free, buy boosters and costumes" model.
Turbine comes to mind with DDO/LotRO.
I would give many valuable things for them to convert Asheron's Call over to a similar model, but they keep saying they just can't because of the way the code is written.
So, basically no reason to come back if I've already hit endgame in terms of gearing (When I left, the only tier of gear higher was from Ops alone). The only interesting Legacy stuff is almost certainly locked (I'm still annoyed at how they grandfathered in old characters - "Oh, you rolled human? Well, no creation bonuses for you for dinging 50!" A buff to a stat that has no use in anything difficult is kind of lame).
Yeah, I think it's too early too to start raging against restrictions we don't know about. I doubt they'll go too far with them. Perhaps they'll go as far as CoH's but not farther then that.
I'm not sure it will ever make sense to rage about restrictions when the game is FREE.
So, you're okay with not letting players private chat across the game world? You're okay with players not being able to make guilds? You're okay with being restricted from even joining guilds? You're okay with people locking out interesting classes with the only free options being bland generic ones you've seen in every MMO? You're okay with locking out content that isn't out of the way? You're okay with your friends list being limited? You're okay with simple things like zone chat, world chat, faction chat and such being cordoned off to F2P players?
I'm talking about in a general sense. Just because a game is free to play doesn't mean there shouldn't be at least a small standard of quality for a player's enjoyment, and that means less restrictions on big parts of your game.
I'm not ok with any of those things. (except for maybe the classes one and making guilds one, but thats debatable)
But if I'm not paying for it and its free, I don't think I have any right to "rage". All I can do is shrug and move on to another game because I did nothing to deserve anything for something given to me of no effort of my own.
The best f2p model i've seen yet is still Aion. They literally don't lock anything from anyone and sell vanity items and boosts. The game is pretty run of the mill, but still, awesome.
I think both models are fine. Gotta keep in mind, an MMO originally designed around the monthly sub may not be that easy to change over into a "everything is free, buy boosters and costumes" model.
Turbine comes to mind with DDO/LotRO.
I would give many valuable things for them to convert Asheron's Call over to a similar model, but they keep saying they just can't because of the way the code is written.
Free to play Asheron's Call?
Swoon.
They probably can't. I wish they'd set up some sort of station pass thing for their games, though. I find it tough to swallow $13/month for the game now, but if they offered something that included LOTRO and DDO, I'd be all over it.
My wife recently reinstalled EQ2 to check it out, and it seems to be the most insane setup ever. You only get certain races and classes, but you really have to dig around the internet to find out what they are instead of just being listed on the site. Also, did you play before, purchase several expansions, and give them money for years? Fuck you, buy them again.
However, that said, the races and classes available don't include my wife's Kerra Conjurer, which she has access to. Her Ratonga is no where to be found, though. Really weird.
They probably can't. I wish they'd set up some sort of station pass thing for their games, though. I find it tough to swallow $13/month for the game now, but if they offered something that included LOTRO and DDO, I'd be all over it.
I'm shocked more people haven't stolen this idea from SOE by now.
Yeah, I think it's too early too to start raging against restrictions we don't know about. I doubt they'll go too far with them. Perhaps they'll go as far as CoH's but not farther then that.
I'm not sure it will ever make sense to rage about restrictions when the game is FREE.
Something being free does not prohibit it from being shitty.
No, but it also doesn't tend to invest you enough to rage. With something you paid for you can rage over the loss of money, with a shitty F2P MMO you can rage over... what, downloading it in the background and spending 5 minutes playing it? Eh.
No, but it also doesn't tend to invest you enough to rage. With something you paid for you can rage over the loss of money, with a shitty F2P MMO you can rage over... what, downloading it in the background and spending 5 minutes playing it? Eh.
You can rage over someone taking a great idea, fantastic IP or enjoyable game and turn it into a pile of shit.
I mean, if you're someone who rages over stuff in the first place, which is something I think you could better do over stuff that really matters to you and your loved ones, but hey I ain't judging.
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That was literally just posted. Along with links.
Race is a better limitation than item quality.
Granted, item quality may still be limited.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Come to think of it, scifi MMOs do seem to be extremely conservative when it comes to races. Which is somewhat ironic, given the setting, you'd think having all sorts of weird aliens and genetic modifications would make them more versatile than fantasy MMOs, not less.
1. Locking out classes.
2.Locking out social features
3. Locking out races
Indeed. It's a pretty seriously flawed concept to gate basic content you've already designed.
I'm just waiting for TOR's detailed restrictions to come out and it will basically be "You may make a Human Trooper. That's it."
A major problem of that game at release was just how imbalanced the various ability trees were. If you got the wrong offensive skills you'd be significantly weaker, if you got the wrong defensive skills your character was often downright useless.
This way, if you play the game and feel like you like the combat and want to experiment yourself you can subscribe and do so. You can already try (most?) of the trees in the premade classes anyway.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
@citizen059 & @Glal : both sensible suggestions, I guess I like to compare stuff when they're so danged similar otherwise. Of course there's plenty of odd birds that are incomparable and I'll keep it that way. Also there's a few terrible subscription based games that went F2P and shortly after went the way of the dodo.
*e; also:
A Malay company has relaunched Karos Online as KOSH Online, see for yourself at https://www.facebook.com/karosonline
Like it a lot so far. Loved Dofus back in the day.
The subscription fee isn't an issue for me; but I wanted to ask here if it's worth my time before I throw money at it.
I'd hate to throw time and money into a flawed, dead, or dying game.
Considering the franchise's popularity I can't imagine they'd take the publicity hit and shut down one of their outlets any time soon. IMO it's not really worth your time *right now* for reasons I wrote on the previous page. But you know, they're adding stuff to the game all the time (a monastery with elderly monks in wheelchairs comes to mind) so maybe they will improve on the game some time as well.
I wouldn't even know, I'm so out of the loop. I didn't even know the IP existed or was still a game until this morning, so that's all good to know.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
I'm not sure it will ever make sense to rage about restrictions when the game is FREE.
Always free on the other hand will give you all the content for free, then supplement the experience with an item mall that gives you QoL stuff. Sometimes there's pay to win in there, usually not these days.
So, the former can sometimes feel more like really lush demos, depending on just how restrictive they are, not at all on the basis of what you get in the package but what you don't get. Even if the F2P Asian MMO is smaller in every way, at least you don't feel like you're being gated.
I never really made a division between just how restrictive the free package is in a game, because it's hard to keep track of and is subject to change every day. Remember Allods being completely unplayable unless you bought some sort of buff item from the store? And then later they fixed that shit. I mean, I will have to rethink the purpose of this list sooner or later anyway. I started out as a simple list of suggestions for games you could play together with friends and strangers without having to spend money. Now that F2P is turning out to be a viable business model for companies like EA this list should perhaps also offer some advice re: what are actually good games to spend money on.
I mean, that's not how I used to play free games, but things are changing.
God, every time I think about this project I come up with more things I should do. I think first on the agenda would be a way to make Access output entries ready for copy/paste into a forum post. Will have to look into that soon.
This should become a holy goal. I often toil with the idea of what I should spend money on.
I think from now on I am not going to reward companies who gate their basic content. I'll gladly buy "boosts" and neat looking vanity items, but I refuse to pay for classes and races. I even struggle with paying for dungeons and the like.
So, you're okay with not letting players private chat across the game world? You're okay with players not being able to make guilds? You're okay with being restricted from even joining guilds? You're okay with people locking out interesting classes with the only free options being bland generic ones you've seen in every MMO? You're okay with locking out content that isn't out of the way? You're okay with your friends list being limited? You're okay with simple things like zone chat, world chat, faction chat and such being cordoned off to F2P players?
I'm talking about in a general sense. Just because a game is free to play doesn't mean there shouldn't be at least a small standard of quality for a player's enjoyment, and that means less restrictions on big parts of your game.
Turbine comes to mind with DDO/LotRO.
I would give many valuable things for them to convert Asheron's Call over to a similar model, but they keep saying they just can't because of the way the code is written.
Free to play Asheron's Call?
Swoon.
So, basically no reason to come back if I've already hit endgame in terms of gearing (When I left, the only tier of gear higher was from Ops alone). The only interesting Legacy stuff is almost certainly locked (I'm still annoyed at how they grandfathered in old characters - "Oh, you rolled human? Well, no creation bonuses for you for dinging 50!" A buff to a stat that has no use in anything difficult is kind of lame).
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
I'm not ok with any of those things. (except for maybe the classes one and making guilds one, but thats debatable)
But if I'm not paying for it and its free, I don't think I have any right to "rage". All I can do is shrug and move on to another game because I did nothing to deserve anything for something given to me of no effort of my own.
They probably can't. I wish they'd set up some sort of station pass thing for their games, though. I find it tough to swallow $13/month for the game now, but if they offered something that included LOTRO and DDO, I'd be all over it.
My wife recently reinstalled EQ2 to check it out, and it seems to be the most insane setup ever. You only get certain races and classes, but you really have to dig around the internet to find out what they are instead of just being listed on the site. Also, did you play before, purchase several expansions, and give them money for years? Fuck you, buy them again.
However, that said, the races and classes available don't include my wife's Kerra Conjurer, which she has access to. Her Ratonga is no where to be found, though. Really weird.
Something being free does not prohibit it from being shitty.
I mean, if you're someone who rages over stuff in the first place, which is something I think you could better do over stuff that really matters to you and your loved ones, but hey I ain't judging.