I wouldn't mind if jungling was gone forever. it creates uncertainty and uncertainty makes for boring lanes
It'll never go away though. It creates no more uncertainty than a Roaming Poppy or a Roaming Alistar. Stealth definitely made for more passivity, because you couldn't afford to ward for stealth early game. It's super duper easy to ward for Roamers/Junglers however.
Having 2/1/2 lanes would make the game far, far more boring in my opinion, because the game would utterly come down to who has the better lane comp. And there'd likely be no saving you from a bad lane comp, as lane switches often only put off the inevitable, only rarely swinging things in your favor.
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
I wouldn't mind if jungling was gone forever. it creates uncertainty and uncertainty makes for boring lanes
It'll never go away though. It creates no more uncertainty than a Roaming Poppy or a Roaming Alistar. Stealth definitely made for more passivity, because you couldn't afford to ward for stealth early game. It's super duper easy to ward for Roamers/Junglers however.
Having 2/1/2 lanes would make the game far, far more boring in my opinion, because the game would utterly come down to who has the better lane comp. And there'd likely be no saving you from a bad lane comp, as lane switches often only put off the inevitable, only rarely swinging things in your favor.
Being stuck with 2/1/2 would definitely hurt poor lane comps, and removes a lot of flexibility to use multiple people who shine in a solo lane. Although then I guess we could have 1/1/3 lanes, which would be interesting since after 2 I don't think the XP hit is that bad with the bonus XP for groups.
Hmm, now I thinking about 1/1/3. Push bot super hard, take a early tower, safe dragon.... but then kind of fall apart.
Hmm, now I thinking about 1/1/3. Push bot super hard, take a early tower, safe dragon.... but then kind of fall apart.
The problem is Tri-lanes rarely work with good and bad comps.
Good comps have a champion who can defend tower well. A tri-lane is never going to beat Alistar, Orianna, Jarvan, among others, unless they dive hard, and lose 1-2 in the process. Then you have to cope with the fact that you fed a couple kills to Alistar in return for a bottom lane tower. This is compounded by the sacrifice made by taking a side lane tower. The more sidelane towers you kill, the more free farm you allow the enemy team to have in those lanes. It's a trade off in some ways, you gain money and jungle control (which is negated, as the basis for this discussion is that the jungle has been done away with), so you just gain money and map control.
Bad comps, they just simply don't have the skill to push a tower in a 3v2 or a 3v1.
And, if that really becomes a Meta, then what you'll see is double Fortify teams, as that is an easy counter to push teams.
Buying wards too expensive, roamers completely unstoppable.
And there was no trade-off for roaming or jungling, either!
the 'you're bad' argument is never going to be convincing. roaming, jungling, and stealth all promote passive gameplay. people last hitting minions for 20 minutes because of junglers/stealths/roamers being mia isn't fun to play, nor is it entertaining to watch.
I wouldn't mind if jungling was gone forever. it creates uncertainty and uncertainty makes for boring lanes
I think jungling gives a nice dose of semi-predictable ganks. Even without wards, I find that with the amount of experience I have that I can generally predict gank timing within 10 seconds or so. Not always, but more often than not. I think it also does good things for the laning phase tempo, with covers and the like. Lacking a jungler, lanes tend to be rather static, and there is a much bigger chance of an imbalanced 1v1 lane fucking up the entire game since replacing them is so hard.
That, and most importantly, it gives you far more laning options. You couldn't pay me enough money to take Vlad into a 2v2 lane, for example. If your favorite character is Vlad, you get to play him 20% of the time instead of 40% of the time, assuming you rotate roles.
Plus, as I stated before, I think it is important to have a variety of viable play styles. Jungling is a great niche because of the type of gameplay it has and the type of champion that is good at it. I simply have no interest in playing a, well, anything at all, in a double lane.
Buying wards too expensive, roamers completely unstoppable.
And there was no trade-off for roaming or jungling, either!
the 'you're bad' argument is never going to be convincing. roaming, jungling, and stealth all promote passive gameplay. people last hitting minions for 20 minutes because of junglers/stealths/roamers being mia isn't fun to play, nor is it entertaining to watch.
Normal wards are 75 g and you only need one to protect from all possible jungle routes if your tower is still up on a side lane. Stealth was far too good / expensive to counter, but normal junglers and roamers were never a big problem in my mind.
Moreover, lane composition is just as guilty in that regard. If you don't run an extremely good 2v2 lane comp, there is a damn good chance you'll have to let your lane get pushed even if they don't have a single jungler / teleport / whatever.
That, and for all of Riot's crusade against sustain, having to blue pill and walk back isn't fun or exciting to watch either. I've always had by far the most fun in tough vs. tough lanes like Mord vs. Vlad where a kill is going to happen, but it is a war that has a variety of battles culminating in the final deciding melee.
Edit: I don't mind laning, but eliminating jungling will only encourage the type of lane I like least: support + AD carry or double stuns, often with a side of double ignites. No thanks. I'd rather be unpleasantly surprised by a jungle gank than know I'm looking forward to 10 minutes of suck.
You guys, Cassiopeia is fun as hell, why didn't anyone tell me? You're all fucking fired. :-q
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
Been playing Sona a lot lately, frankly amazed at how good she is at pulling horrible teams through bad starts and on into dominant finishes. Especially frustrating though when you have a team that crawls back to almost winning a really bad game start, and yet then continually get caught in the jungle and burst down, leaving me to try and defend tower pushes.
Also been seeing a lot of jungle Alistar in normals. I know the high elo streamers can do that shit and pull it off, but for normals you're better off sticking him in a lane, he's just not as efficient as other junglers, doesn't have a good ganking skill like bandage toss or WW's ult, and I'd much rather have him around protecting a carry in the lane, rather than stick some bad shaco up in the 1v2 solo top and have him rage quit 10 minutes in.
Yeah, I've been going flash/CV on her and she's amazing. Her ability to boost your team's offense and defense is nutso. Aura sona is kind of dull to play, but she's crazy strong - I load up with a philo, HoG, cooldown boots and then just start stacking aura items - the cooldown/mp5 one, an aegis, and a will of the ancients or a starks if it goes that long.
You guys, Cassiopeia is fun as hell, why didn't anyone tell me? You're all fucking fired. :-q
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
Was that last sentence facetiousness or is there something horribly bad about Cass that I haven't seen, besides "not Annie" which EVERY ap carry suffers from?
You guys, Cassiopeia is fun as hell, why didn't anyone tell me? You're all fucking fired. :-q
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
Was that last sentence facetiousness or is there something horribly bad about Cass that I haven't seen, besides "not Annie" which EVERY ap carry suffers from?
No. Her scaling is very good, so a Cass with all those stacks / gold from acquiring those stacks should be able to kill tanks in mere seconds, and anything but dedicated tanks in less than that.
I'm guessing she was the only good, or at the very least the only fed player on her entire team, and they wisely shat on her every fight.
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
You guys, Cassiopeia is fun as hell, why didn't anyone tell me? You're all fucking fired. :-q
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
Was that last sentence facetiousness or is there something horribly bad about Cass that I haven't seen, besides "not Annie" which EVERY ap carry suffers from?
I've found that I start getting eaten alive by CC in the last few games I've played as cass. I still have been doing really well with her, and crush lanes, but then especially with how often I've been up against leonas I end up getting blinked to and stunned for a million years till I'm dead. I've been debating getting like, a moonflair spellblade or merc treads, but I'm kind of wondering if it would even help that much.
Weeeeell just got forced into top lane against Irelia as Lux. Let them know it was a TERRIBLE idea. Got first blood at lvl 2 but quickly became irrelevant. Another kill at 6 when she tried to dive me. Other than that it was terrible, she did not give two fucks about me or my harrass. No one would take the lane as she free farmed all game.
Then the raaaaage from my team when Irelia nearly scored a penta (I got awaaaay). They called me all sorts of names and took their time to report me. It was pretty amazing.
You guys, Cassiopeia is fun as hell, why didn't anyone tell me? You're all fucking fired. :-q
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
Was that last sentence facetiousness or is there something horribly bad about Cass that I haven't seen, besides "not Annie" which EVERY ap carry suffers from?
I've found that I start getting eaten alive by CC in the last few games I've played as cass. I still have been doing really well with her, and crush lanes, but then especially with how often I've been up against leonas I end up getting blinked to and stunned for a million years till I'm dead. I've been debating getting like, a moonflair spellblade or merc treads, but I'm kind of wondering if it would even help that much.
pretty much, she did a ton of damage, but ww would just ult on her every team foght and then she'd get blown up by vayne and myself. The funny thing is, everyone on their team had a stun (knockback for their vayne) so I would just pussy foot around in team fights throwing daggers and calling them names, and they would try and trudge through the super morde and ww to kill me for whatever reason,, then I'd just flash, shunpo to cass and ult and she'd waste her ult just to stop me then get blown up doing absolutely nothing. If they had a annie or brand they probably would of won.
lol cass.
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
Why would they have been more likely to win with Brand or Annie in that case? Annie I can kind of understand if she was prepared with a tibbers bomb, but Brand's stunning is just as vaguely-reliable as Cassiopeia's (albeit up more often). Chain stuns ruin everyone!
I found Orianna, Maokai, and Katarina to be awesome in a duo lane with Leona.
I've been really tempted to go dps Maokai and duo with a Leona. His root and sapling harass seems like it would work really well with her stuns. Good to know it works out.
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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Why would they have been more likely to win with Brand or Annie in that case? Annie I can kind of understand if she was prepared with a tibbers bomb, but Brand's stunning is just as vaguely-reliable as Cassiopeia's (albeit up more often). Chain stuns ruin everyone!
Cass's stun is an ult that only works with finicky positioning from a closer range then she generally wants to be. Brands is a bit situational but not an ult and much longer range. I've been playing around with Cass since she's free this week and I really think that he lack of CC besides her ult makes her significantly weaker then Annie, Brand, or Aniva who all seem like stronger AP carries to me.
Edit: And her ult has a short range unlike Oriana who can just stay at long range. I think she is good right now though but I wouldn't ban her like I might Annie or even Oriana.
So has anyone figured out leona's secret passive yet?
I know a couple, like nids secret passive, and the secret passive on all ninjas.
@jars were just going to have to heavily disagree about lux. Lux isnt your typical ap caster, that is all.
What is the secret passive on the ninjas? I know they have that 'Flippin Ninja' thing, but no idea what it does. Or is it just like flavor like Gangplanks 'Pirate' or Miss Fortunes 'Pirate Hunter'?
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It'll never go away though. It creates no more uncertainty than a Roaming Poppy or a Roaming Alistar. Stealth definitely made for more passivity, because you couldn't afford to ward for stealth early game. It's super duper easy to ward for Roamers/Junglers however.
Having 2/1/2 lanes would make the game far, far more boring in my opinion, because the game would utterly come down to who has the better lane comp. And there'd likely be no saving you from a bad lane comp, as lane switches often only put off the inevitable, only rarely swinging things in your favor.
Being stuck with 2/1/2 would definitely hurt poor lane comps, and removes a lot of flexibility to use multiple people who shine in a solo lane. Although then I guess we could have 1/1/3 lanes, which would be interesting since after 2 I don't think the XP hit is that bad with the bonus XP for groups.
Hmm, now I thinking about 1/1/3. Push bot super hard, take a early tower, safe dragon.... but then kind of fall apart.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
The problem is Tri-lanes rarely work with good and bad comps.
Good comps have a champion who can defend tower well. A tri-lane is never going to beat Alistar, Orianna, Jarvan, among others, unless they dive hard, and lose 1-2 in the process. Then you have to cope with the fact that you fed a couple kills to Alistar in return for a bottom lane tower. This is compounded by the sacrifice made by taking a side lane tower. The more sidelane towers you kill, the more free farm you allow the enemy team to have in those lanes. It's a trade off in some ways, you gain money and jungle control (which is negated, as the basis for this discussion is that the jungle has been done away with), so you just gain money and map control.
Bad comps, they just simply don't have the skill to push a tower in a 3v2 or a 3v1.
And, if that really becomes a Meta, then what you'll see is double Fortify teams, as that is an easy counter to push teams.
Man roaming twitch was so much fun.
And there was no trade-off for roaming or jungling, either!
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
the 'you're bad' argument is never going to be convincing. roaming, jungling, and stealth all promote passive gameplay. people last hitting minions for 20 minutes because of junglers/stealths/roamers being mia isn't fun to play, nor is it entertaining to watch.
I think jungling gives a nice dose of semi-predictable ganks. Even without wards, I find that with the amount of experience I have that I can generally predict gank timing within 10 seconds or so. Not always, but more often than not. I think it also does good things for the laning phase tempo, with covers and the like. Lacking a jungler, lanes tend to be rather static, and there is a much bigger chance of an imbalanced 1v1 lane fucking up the entire game since replacing them is so hard.
That, and most importantly, it gives you far more laning options. You couldn't pay me enough money to take Vlad into a 2v2 lane, for example. If your favorite character is Vlad, you get to play him 20% of the time instead of 40% of the time, assuming you rotate roles.
Plus, as I stated before, I think it is important to have a variety of viable play styles. Jungling is a great niche because of the type of gameplay it has and the type of champion that is good at it. I simply have no interest in playing a, well, anything at all, in a double lane.
Normal wards are 75 g and you only need one to protect from all possible jungle routes if your tower is still up on a side lane. Stealth was far too good / expensive to counter, but normal junglers and roamers were never a big problem in my mind.
Moreover, lane composition is just as guilty in that regard. If you don't run an extremely good 2v2 lane comp, there is a damn good chance you'll have to let your lane get pushed even if they don't have a single jungler / teleport / whatever.
That, and for all of Riot's crusade against sustain, having to blue pill and walk back isn't fun or exciting to watch either. I've always had by far the most fun in tough vs. tough lanes like Mord vs. Vlad where a kill is going to happen, but it is a war that has a variety of battles culminating in the final deciding melee.
Edit: I don't mind laning, but eliminating jungling will only encourage the type of lane I like least: support + AD carry or double stuns, often with a side of double ignites. No thanks. I'd rather be unpleasantly surprised by a jungle gank than know I'm looking forward to 10 minutes of suck.
I went up against a cass as Kat yesterday, she is literally like, the anti-kat in every way, I got steam rolled, and our shitty ww never ganked her who was pushed to our tower 24/7. she got 20 mejai stacks.
They still loss horribly of course, afterall, they had a cass on their team.
I'm dead serious."
Yeah, I've been going flash/CV on her and she's amazing. Her ability to boost your team's offense and defense is nutso. Aura sona is kind of dull to play, but she's crazy strong - I load up with a philo, HoG, cooldown boots and then just start stacking aura items - the cooldown/mp5 one, an aegis, and a will of the ancients or a starks if it goes that long.
Was that last sentence facetiousness or is there something horribly bad about Cass that I haven't seen, besides "not Annie" which EVERY ap carry suffers from?
No. Her scaling is very good, so a Cass with all those stacks / gold from acquiring those stacks should be able to kill tanks in mere seconds, and anything but dedicated tanks in less than that.
I'm guessing she was the only good, or at the very least the only fed player on her entire team, and they wisely shat on her every fight.
I've found that I start getting eaten alive by CC in the last few games I've played as cass. I still have been doing really well with her, and crush lanes, but then especially with how often I've been up against leonas I end up getting blinked to and stunned for a million years till I'm dead. I've been debating getting like, a moonflair spellblade or merc treads, but I'm kind of wondering if it would even help that much.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
Then the raaaaage from my team when Irelia nearly scored a penta (I got awaaaay). They called me all sorts of names and took their time to report me. It was pretty amazing.
pretty much, she did a ton of damage, but ww would just ult on her every team foght and then she'd get blown up by vayne and myself. The funny thing is, everyone on their team had a stun (knockback for their vayne) so I would just pussy foot around in team fights throwing daggers and calling them names, and they would try and trudge through the super morde and ww to kill me for whatever reason,, then I'd just flash, shunpo to cass and ult and she'd waste her ult just to stop me then get blown up doing absolutely nothing. If they had a annie or brand they probably would of won.
lol cass.
I'm dead serious."
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Nemlock for online gaming
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Edit: And her ult has a short range unlike Oriana who can just stay at long range. I think she is good right now though but I wouldn't ban her like I might Annie or even Oriana.
Love dat gurl
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
he is now more or less my preferred mage since swain keeps getting kicked in the balls every patch lately
I picked him up after like 3 months out of this game. So much fun, pretty much Annie with a more dynamic play style
I'm still pretty bad with his ult but his aoe late game is stupid good.
Got his Apocalyptic skin too.
The only thing I didn't like about him when I tried him during free weeks was his Ult. If you're near a minion wave, then it does dick.
As long as you're not near a minion wave, it will smite an enemy team with reckless abandon. I really wish it prioritized Champions.
Not a big fan of the vandal skins.
Plus Apocalyptic Brand is suiting for a champ with that much aoe fire death.
Vandal Brand reminds me of like, japanese rockers
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
because he doesn't look dopey and just looks more like a pissed off biker/ghostrider
It makes my skin tingle just to think about it.
If you love her so much why don't you purchase her
Went against an Ashe as Lux in mid yesterday. I had no idea what a monster counter Lux is for her. 4/0 so fast.
But anyway, my gangplank seems incredibly squishy, whats good for beefing him up?
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
What is the secret passive on the ninjas? I know they have that 'Flippin Ninja' thing, but no idea what it does. Or is it just like flavor like Gangplanks 'Pirate' or Miss Fortunes 'Pirate Hunter'?
MWO: Adamski
I usually get a frozen mallet on him at some point, but I haven't played him much since his buffs so something else might be better in its place
my old build went something like CDR boots > IE > last whisper > cloak > mallet > cloak > turn one cloak into phantom dancer and the other into atmas
the mallet slow might not be needed anymore with the new passive so I dunno