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Gaming Mice?
kaliyama
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So do these warrant spending another 60-70 bucks on getting a fancy-pants razor or whatever?
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I'm running with a MX510 that must be three years old now. Never failed me once.
Just get something decent (not the $10 shit at Wal*Mart) that's not overpriced (I'd have trouble justifying spending more than $35 or so for a wired mouse, maybe a bit more for wireless), and if it sucks, take it back and say it was defective out of the box.
Laser is bad for gaming, as is wireless.
Here is a review by a former pro quake player who has his own tested method. The reason there is no wireless mice is they are not suitable for gaming. You'll notice fancy laser mice get trashed. The tech is to new and has problems.
http://www.esreality.com/?a=longpost&id=1265679&page=22
There is an updated version somewhere that takes into acount razers new LED deathadder, which seems to be pretty damn good if you can get it working.
I've found that the Logitech MX 510 is a really nice mouse. My laptop mouse is an MX Revolution and it is a very good all round mouse, though it's quite evidently not built for gaming (that said, I still have no qualms with it even in faster paced games like CS).
The most important question really is ergonomics. Do you prefer deathgrip mice, or fingertip mice?
Keyword in your post. By the looks of it the OP isn't a competitive gamer.
I'm aware he isn't, but by nature competitive gamers are out for the best gaming mouse, since it's a very important factor there. And not what looks the coolest, or costs the most. Part of the problem with the mouse industry is companies like logitech and razer sell higher priced mice and pass them off as gaming mice, when in actuality they are a step back from prior products.
I agree with you the 510 is a good pick, you really can't go wrong with it.
My vote goes for the (somewhat pricey) MX1000. In short, it's a really good wireless laser mouse. I can't find a difference between it and optical, wired mouses in games and the battery isn't a problem. I can use it for two to three days for most of the day without charging it. A quick charge lets me use it for many hours, while a longer charge (I just pop it on when I go to sleep) will let it run for days.
The 510/518 are all great choices as well. I just like not having a wire.
The problem with some cheap mouses is that they might have problems with tracking (eg. the cheaper logitech laser ones). Or, I had a cheap a4tech ("800dpi") that behaved strangely at slightly higher sensitivity settings - it would make the minimal movement greater, so it wasn't possible to move the cursor by just a single pixel regardless of how carefully you did it and it would jump by two.
I believe it's easy to tell in any drawing program - thicker curved lines will have large "steps" on them (my present mouse also does this, but only on the 2 highest settings in windows).
I use a $25 Microsoft laser 6000 (1000dpi) and it works pretty well for games (I sometimes play Warsow, which is a twitch multiplayer fps); surprisingly the back/forward buttons are recognized in games.
I guess a gaming mouse is somewhat worth the guarantee that it will track smoothly, but you can get good enough ones for less.
edit: btw. I would suggest not messing about with the USB refresh rate, at least not the one on the motherboard, as it can mess it up. I tried it out on an somewhat old NF7-S and now it often registers movement when there is none. Nothing major and fairly rare, but enough to wake up the system/screen when a mouse is connected
At night, the ice weasels come."
The only downside is, once you get that shit set up, using anyone else's computer from then on will be an exercise in frustration.
Anyone else tried this?
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/strategiccommander/
Short answer: Only if it fits your hand well.
Seriously, you'll get a lot of answers here but none of them may apply to you since how well a mice performs in game X if you overclock the USB port to y degree and set sensitivity to z won't mean shit if the mouse isn't as comfortable to use for long periods as some other one.
Go to a store that sells mice, see how they fit in your hands, note which ones felt right, then come back and ask for recommendations.
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That's only the tip of the iceberg on why laser mice aren't that good. Even the top end logitech/ms/razer mice are still problematic.
While they do function really well at high sens, and for say photoshop are amazing, this goes out the window in FPS.
The faster the FPS (ie quake and unreal) the more it favors low sensitivity (and this is why you see all the top players with absurdly low sens and huge ass mouse pads). Laser mice have odd tracking issues here regardless of the model, LED Mice do not. Which is a lot of the reason the mx500 outscores it's laser based brother the g5 by a huge margin, ditto for the diamond back vs the copperhead.
This is rather similar to when LED mice first came out yet ball mice still ruled for action games. I'm sure a couple years from now laser is the way to go, but not for gaming now.
Also the first few mice that came out with laser tech (the mx1000 being the biggest offender) had issues with lift off hight that caused all sorts of problems for fast games where you needed to be precise. They've fixed those issues which is a start, but I wouldn't punish myself with a laser mouse yet.
Yes, in games like Battlefield, they're great to switch between vehicles and infantry, and from what I hear when you want to snipe (I hate sniping so haven't tried). Other than that situation I haven't really had a need to use them though.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Depends on your style. Do you keep mouse sensitivity cranked really high and use small, precise movements to aim? Laser is great!
Do you keep sensitivity low and use big sweeps of your arm to turn and aim and such? Laser is awful. It simply can't keep up with the speed of your arm.
It's not bad for all gaming. But my understanding is that if you play with low sensitivity like many fps players favor now, it has issues tracking the larger arm movements you have to make. Earlier implementations also had problems if you had to pick up the mouse and recenter it on the pad, but those are largely gone now I believe.
If you play more MMOs, RTS's, TBS, or other genres, it's not an issue.
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That's spot on.
Just remember that all "gaming" mice have high performance LED and Laser variants.
Razer Copperhead/daimondback
MS/razer habu/deathadder/3.0
logitech g5/mx518/mx510
Why pay more for a product that does not function as well in some situations? And since all the mice are sold as "gaming mice" have such a critical issue is comical.
EDIT:
Also at high sense the upper end LED mice to function almost as well. Unless you are doing photo retouching or some other pixel percision item on a massive monitor, you aren't going to see much gain from laser.
Heh, then I guess I'm doing it wrong
Warsow is pretty fast and I tend to play Insta-gib (ie. spawn with unlimited "rail gun" and there all weapons removed from map).
I just tested it, and the MS Laser mouse does loose track at very fast mouse movement
I can't say I noticed any problems when playing though (I use sensitivity of ~10 which makes a 360° turn in ~6cm/2,3").
At night, the ice weasels come."
I used to think like that, and I used to play IG as well (but in UT off and on just to hone my aim).
I now use .95 in game, no accel. And my aim/speed/reaction time has gone through the roof. The only game I'd think of using more is QuakeWorld because the maps are cramped enough I might get away with more. What's funny is that sens isn't that low compared to other people I know.
All laser mice will lose tracking, it's not just that ms mouse. The issue is that with a low sense, you have to make faster large movements constantly, so the mouse is constantly off. That's completely unworkable.
I'm going to take the asshole option on this just because it needs to be said (and feel free to call me out on it.)
Just because you aren't fast enough to detect it doesn't mean it's not there, and doesn't mean people with better reflexes don't feel like they are mousing through sludge.
Logitech and razer (think MS as well but I'm not 100% sure) use the same LED and Laser guts on their high end mice. So the problem is universal. Dated LED mice (ms3.0) or dated laser mice (mx1000) have those issues with the tech and more (the ms3.0 has some items that no other guts have caught up with that make it competitive in the mouse market). So this isn't "my model mouse is fine", no such thing. At that point you're arguing drivers/firmware/mouse shape, which is a strictly personal issue.
When somebody asks if gaming mice are worth the price, or if any mouse is good for gaming it's worth arming them with all the facts. If they can't tell the difference, so be it. But it's there.
There is a chance your issue was just a poor mouse pad. Lasers suck, but they can be less picky about surface... due to inherent DPI advantage. But given a good pad with either option the LED will win out on a solid consistant surface.
I realize I'm probably more picky then most here, but if you are looking for a gaming mouse there is no reason at all to pay for a laser, when you can get a superior LED for half that price.
I have good faith that in about 3 years we are going to see a laser that slaughters LED's at low res, and can keep up with massive movements and can't get negative accel. But I've used all the guts on the market, and it simply does not exist now.
I'll just drop my recomendations at this for gaming only mice.
Budget ms3.0, logitech mx510- both are the defacto standard for gaming mice and used by all the top players. You can't find better for a competive sens.
Money to spair but still want to game- MX518, razer daimond back, the pinacle of LED mice and if you play high sens (god help you in FPS) this is the best option. Also great outside of games.
Money to spair not really a gamer- logitech g5, razer copperhead- solid lazer mice, don't suffer wireless issues, but have all the laser problems.
the one "what if" question right now is the deathadder. It has firmware issues out the ass, it's LED. But seems to kill the top LED and laser mice in their own areas when configured correct. I don't have hands on time with it so I can't vouche for it and thus can't recommend it.
Then again I also play quake4 like this
So I'm at one end fo the extreme
I love how developers and artists spend all this time and money creating these beautiful graphics for a brand new game to look amazing, and those that probably play it the most, make it look like a 1980s arcade game..
Don't forget us gamers spending thousands of dollars on new hardware every few years . . . then disabling any feature that makes use of it.
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WHY?!
And yet the games degrade in gameplay. Quake World is still by far, hands down, the most complex deathmatch game on the market. It's dated as fuck but it still is the gold standard.
Since then it's become worse, quake4 being a fucking failure in gameplay (though hats off to id for trying to fix it and talking the community about it's faults).
Other DM games (take unreal) also follow this pattern. UT99 was a godly game, 2k3 had issues, 2k4 tried to fix them, ut3 might.
Graphics < gameplay
Spec brag time... amd x2 @3.0ghz, 4gb ddr2 800, 880gts sli... I'll upgrade the CPU once AMD drops k10 quad cores.
I don't run all games like this, far from that. Being able to max out games is awsome, and it looks fucking amazing. But when I want to spend 2+ hours in mindless fragging fun, I'll drop the details and go online for some rounds of 1v1 or TDM. You can have both in PC gaming, that's why I love it.
Again graphics < gameplay.
And I can feel the difference between wired, and wireless mice. I can feel the laser lag, and I can feel the difference between a solid 125hz CRT and the best LCD.
For me this is what's great for pushing it and really playing the game, playing to win. And hats off to the best man/team at the end of a good 15/20 min round of no holds barred frags.
I'm all about how the game plays, I could care less about how it looks.
Yes by removing all details you turn it into a no lights box with just bland backgrounds, yet spot on figures for targets, and simple pick up icons.
Common practice in comp FPS.
It' matters less in competition where neon skins are standard, but it still helps.
The scroll wheel on my MX510 is getting a bit wonky, so I'm looking for a replacement.
I really like the MX510, but I want something wireless now. Does it have a wireless equivalent?
The mx700 is the mx500's wireless sister, same guts. So it's not that off from an mx510 (minor change not worth caring about since the mx500 is a better mouse regardless).
If you want laser you're looking at the G7, laser brother to the mx700.
But the 700 is a carbon copy of the 500 in wireless.
For me, the two biggest benefits of a gaming mouse were the DPI switcher and the two extra buttons.
But I don't think that's valid.
EDIT:
On second try I got 44 hits, but again I didn't have to dodge, bad judge.
EDIT:
Just dumb clicking I can get 50+ but miss about 10
This isn't a good gauge
EDIT:
Yeah about 40 clean, about 50 with 10 missed, so not much change. My aim also blows ass comapred to other players. I'm also drunk so I'm not sure how valid those scores are, adn again, my aim SUCKS.
Rank B: Vice Admiral.
But Im pretty content with my Razer Krait + Razer mousepad (Control I think)
Razer mice take more time to get used to in general, but after that they perform just as good. Perhaps better, but that's impossible to measure.
Another favourite mouse of mine is the mx300. I'm more of a RTS player though, play wc3 HEAVILY. Still play a bit of CS 1.6. I've got small hands with huge-ass fingers.
I agree with crash5s btw. Even if you can't measure the difference, it's there. Now you could just ignore it and buy laser, but why would you buy laser in the first place if it's more expensive? Because the laser mice have the same sizes and shapes the LED ones have (except for a few probably), it's just not worth it.
I just got 49 on my first try
...with the trackpad on my laptop.
off-topic, but I know that guy who made the flash game, haha
Should I do anything hacking and configuramating on it, or it's perfect as it is?