Higher Education - How can we make it suck a little less?

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  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Deebaser wrote:

    Are you going to start telling us about time cube?

    (Please start telling us about time cube.)

    And that's why folks, I encourage everyone to get the highest level of education.

    Sorry bro, Im not all that impressed by your podunk backwards notions of nobility or your overinflated sense of self. The head of my local rotary club is more impressive.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • AJRAJR Been spending most their lives Livin' in the Green Hill paradiseRegistered User regular
    hippofant wrote:
    A lot of people care about their social standing and class structure to the extent that it would affect their enjoyment of their [strike]work[/strike] career. One might, for example, enjoy the work of being a garbageman - that is, riding around in a truck and throwing garbage in - but one might dislike the inability to get a date that might come commensurate with "I'm a garbageman."

    I don't think I'd want to go on a date with someone so shallow that they’d lose interest the instant I told them I worked as a garbageman.

    But that’s just me.

    Aaron O'Malley. Wrestler extraordinaire.
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  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    SkyGheNe wrote:
    I graduated with a liberal arts degree (English). I read a lot and wrote a lot, which helped me approach arguments from a strictly logical point of view. It also exposed me to a variety of things that I would have otherwise missed out on (psychology, sociology, anthropology, and yes, mathematics).

    I think my major made me into a more empathetic person - and much of my job (heck, every job, right?) is going to depend on how you manage and communicate with others.

    I won't lie - I think it's pretty easy to coast as an English major and graduate with a B average...but I graduated with more credits than my friends with Engineering degrees, had a near perfect GPA (which is tough if you're taking a rigorous, all English course load), and while it did take me two years to land the job that I wanted, I am really, really happy with where I am (advertising and doing tons of math!).

    I wouldn't trade my degree and how it shaped me as a person for anything and I think it's really disheartening to see how little people value, and how easily they openly disparage, majors such as English. I also sincerely doubt the claims by some that what I learned in my classes could have and would have been more efficiently learned outside of University and inside a library with wikipedia open.

    I have tried finding experiences like the ones I had inside of college outside of it, but have had no such luck.

    It seems to me that where you ended up has less to do with the degree and more to do with the person. Not that knowing how to use the language of Shakespeare with some precision is a foolhardy exercise.

    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote:
    Deebaser wrote:

    Are you going to start telling us about time cube?

    (Please start telling us about time cube.)

    And that's why folks, I encourage everyone to get the highest level of education.

    The highest level of education is sarcasm.

    Sarcasm is the refuge of the underclass who has lost all arguments.

    Not so, it is the beginning of a great truth, that just because a fool says a thing, does not mean it is worth arguing.

    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Rchanen wrote:
    It seems to me that where you ended up has less to do with the degree and more to do with the person. Not that knowing how to use the language of Shakespeare with some precision is a foolhardy exercise.

    I see those two being fairly closely related and somewhat inseparable.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    SkyGheNe wrote:
    I graduated with a liberal arts degree (English). I read a lot and wrote a lot, which helped me approach arguments from a strictly logical point of view. It also exposed me to a variety of things that I would have otherwise missed out on (psychology, sociology, anthropology, and yes, mathematics).

    I think my major made me into a more empathetic person - and much of my job (heck, every job, right?) is going to depend on how you manage and communicate with others.

    I won't lie - I think it's pretty easy to coast as an English major and graduate with a B average...but I graduated with more credits than my friends with Engineering degrees, had a near perfect GPA (which is tough if you're taking a rigorous, all English course load), and while it did take me two years to land the job that I wanted, I am really, really happy with where I am (advertising and doing tons of math!).

    I wouldn't trade my degree and how it shaped me as a person for anything and I think it's really disheartening to see how little people value, and how easily they openly disparage, majors such as English. I also sincerely doubt the claims by some that what I learned in my classes could have and would have been more efficiently learned outside of University and inside a library with wikipedia open.

    I have tried finding experiences like the ones I had inside of college outside of it, but have had no such luck.

    Yeah, the only bullshit majors are business and philosophy.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, the only bullshit majors are business and philosophy.

    Philosophy's just highly structured thinking and logic using language instead of math, usually. Courses are usually the toughest in the humanities, especially since formal logic is a base requirement for all but the intro courses. There's a reason that a ton of physics, math and computer science students minor in philosophy.

    I won't defend business schools. They really, really need to clean up their acts.

  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Rchanen wrote:
    It seems to me that where you ended up has less to do with the degree and more to do with the person. Not that knowing how to use the language of Shakespeare with some precision is a foolhardy exercise.

    I see those two being fairly closely related and somewhat inseparable.


    And a good argument in and of itself. Tasteful in small things, tasteful in all things. Etc. Though quoting an old phrase does not an argument make.

    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Rchanen wrote:
    Deebaser wrote:

    Are you going to start telling us about time cube?

    (Please start telling us about time cube.)

    And that's why folks, I encourage everyone to get the highest level of education.

    The highest level of education is sarcasm.

    Sarcasm is the refuge of the underclass who has lost all arguments.

    Classism is the refuge of unaccomplished, entitled, liberal arts undergrads.*

    *(Not to suggest that all liberal arts majors are as geesey as this one)

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    Assuming that us liberal arts majors (who stupidly chose USELESS degrees like English or Philosophy (I am both :-D )) wised up. What should we do?

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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote:
    I also was not aware I was making a false division, so much as a statement that "If you enjoy what you do and you are good at it (and it doesn't involve hurting people), fuck the people who bitch at you. They aren't worth the time it takes to spit on them." More of a moral platitude/tautology than any debatable argument about the impact of social status and perceived rewards on the desirability of a career/line of work.

    Fair enough. I don't particularly like agreeing with TheNomadicCircle anyways.

    I mean, ultimately, do too many kids go to university and get degrees that they don't need? I'm inclined to say yes. Here in Ontario, 25% of high school students go on to university and another 25% go on to college, yet upwards of 60% of students choose to enter the academic streams geared towards university admission. (Keep in mind, you can enter college through the applied stream, so the overshoot is arguably closer to 60% vs 25% rather than 60% vs 50%.) But the question why is complicated. The question, "Should they?" is even more so, and is highly dependent on the viewpoint you're asking it from. It might be the correct decision for an individual to get a practically useless university degree, even if it is not for society.

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Savdec wrote:
    Assuming that us liberal arts majors (who stupidly chose USELESS degrees like English or Philosophy (I am both :-D )) wised up. What should we do?

    Intern and learn the MSOffice suite if you aren't looking to stay in academia. A lot of people start awesome careers on useless degrees. :)

    Deebaser on
    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, the only bullshit majors are business and philosophy.

    Philosophy's just highly structured thinking and logic using language instead of math, usually. Courses are usually the toughest in the humanities, especially since formal logic is a base requirement for all but the intro courses. There's a reason that a ton of physics, math and computer science students minor in philosophy.

    I won't defend business schools. They really, really need to clean up their acts.

    Yeah, but those should go into public policy or ethics or something. All the higher level stuff is both esoteric and only relevant or interesting for people who practice it, such as all the bullshit about whether we're looking at shadows on a cave.

  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    Bagginses wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, the only bullshit majors are business and philosophy.

    Philosophy's just highly structured thinking and logic using language instead of math, usually. Courses are usually the toughest in the humanities, especially since formal logic is a base requirement for all but the intro courses. There's a reason that a ton of physics, math and computer science students minor in philosophy.

    I won't defend business schools. They really, really need to clean up their acts.

    Yeah, but those should go into public policy or ethics or something. All the higher level stuff is both esoteric and only relevant or interesting for people who practice it, such as all the bullshit about whether we're looking at shadows on a cave.
    That...that's the first thing that they teach you.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, but those should go into public policy or ethics or something. All the higher level stuff is both esoteric and only relevant or interesting for people who practice it, such as all the bullshit about whether we're looking at shadows on a cave.

    You mean Plato? The one whose work, along with the other Greek philosophers, forms the foundational basis for Western culture, much less modern science, math and practically every other rationale field of study? You do know why they made you read that, right?

    And that's not what philosophers talk about today. That's what philosophers talked about in Ancient Greece. Converation's moved on a bit.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote:
    Intern and learn the MSOffice suite if you aren't looking to stay in academia. A lot of people start awesome careers on useless degrees. :)

    Aspergers here pretty much exemplifies why liberal arts grads will always have a job. People skills and writing ability are crucial to running any large organization. As, ironically, are the skilled and unskilled trades.

    Engineers and programmers, on the other hand, can be outsourced to India.

  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, but those should go into public policy or ethics or something. All the higher level stuff is both esoteric and only relevant or interesting for people who practice it, such as all the bullshit about whether we're looking at shadows on a cave.

    You mean Plato? The one whose work, along with the other Greek philosophers, forms the foundational basis for Western culture, much less modern science, math and practically every other rationale field of study? You do know why they made you read that, right?

    And that's not what philosophers talk about today. That's what philosophers talked about in Ancient Greece. Converation's moved on a bit.

    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    I don't really blame people for going to college when it isn't necessary since just about every job out there would have thrown out my resume if I didn't have some sort of degree.

    I think it's hard to reject something when just about everything in society is driving you towards it using intangibles (prestige/class/right of passage) along with the obvious benefits (job security/hireability/earning power).





  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Here's a good overview of what modern philosophers study:

    http://www.yale.edu/philos/undergraduate_courses.html

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Bagginses wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Yeah, but those should go into public policy or ethics or something. All the higher level stuff is both esoteric and only relevant or interesting for people who practice it, such as all the bullshit about whether we're looking at shadows on a cave.

    You mean Plato? The one whose work, along with the other Greek philosophers, forms the foundational basis for Western culture, much less modern science, math and practically every other rationale field of study? You do know why they made you read that, right?

    And that's not what philosophers talk about today. That's what philosophers talked about in Ancient Greece. Converation's moved on a bit.

    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the right threads? There's quite a few with heavy interest in philosophy on this forum, and they cite various philosophers in various threads. Saggio has done so, MrMister does so, the list goes on.

    Also, what's with the weird classism tangent going on with Nomadic Circle. Kind of weird.

    Lucid on
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Here's a good overview of what modern philosophers study:

    http://www.yale.edu/philos/undergraduate_courses.html

    Art criticism?

  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    Bagginses wrote:
    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Here's a good overview of what modern philosophers study:

    http://www.yale.edu/philos/undergraduate_courses.html

    Wow. That is a lot more than my school offers. Grr. Also, I don't really blame you for not knowing what Philosophy covers. It's a discipline that manages to be ubiquitous and relatively unknown outside of its biggest thinkers. And the sometimes weird twists their thoughts take. (eg. Nagle and the recent controversy over people misunderstanding something he wrote about the inability to say that intelligent design is not-not-provable.)

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  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    Bagginses wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Here's a good overview of what modern philosophers study:

    http://www.yale.edu/philos/undergraduate_courses.html

    Art criticism?

    C'mon, at least humor me and pretend to argue in good faith.

    NOTE TO INVADING ALIENS: Avoid this town. (Like this town avoided us.)
  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    Savdec wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Bagginses wrote:
    Huh. That's the kind of stuff I saw in the last philosophy thread. My perception may also be due to the fact that I have yet to see a philosopher being used as a citation or being used to advance any of the discussions on this board outside of that one thread. We've used literary analysis, economics, and the sciences, but never any philosophy outside of personal beliefs over how to reduce suffering.

    Here's a good overview of what modern philosophers study:

    http://www.yale.edu/philos/undergraduate_courses.html

    Art criticism?

    C'mon, at least humor me and pretend to argue in good faith.

    It's my birthday and I'll snark if I want to.

  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    To bring both sides of this liberal arts students are terrible and engineers are autistic nerds thing together: Isn't an engineer who barely passes just as bad as a b/c student in the lib arts? Also, are students getting worse? If so, could a university really fix that, what with the whole students grade teachers thing? Should we even have business schools on the undergraduate level?

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  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Deebaser wrote:
    Intern and learn the MSOffice suite if you aren't looking to stay in academia. A lot of people start awesome careers on useless degrees. :)

    Aspergers here pretty much exemplifies why liberal arts grads will always have a job. People skills and writing ability are crucial to running any large organization. As, ironically, are the skilled and unskilled trades.

    Engineers and programmers, on the other hand, can be outsourced to India.

    So aside from your silly ad hom, the only thing you have to contribute is "Liberal arts can't be outsourced?"

    You'll go far with that attitude, chief!

    Deebaser on
    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    edited July 2011
    In his defense, I've typed then deleted posts that were too goose-y. It's hard not to take the kind of stuff in this thread personally.

    Also, thanks for the ava compliment. Awesome band!

    Savdec on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Deebaser wrote:
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you aren't part of the Aristocracy.

    Get over your entitled middle class bullshit, son.

    You know what they say about assuming.

    There is no sense of the world "Aristocracy" in the Western world plus my status as bey would not be known to you. Therefore, your wrong. I'm very much a part of the Aristocracy, but not in the way you or the Western world views aristocracy. Think of a Khan in the Safavid time and as per Turkmen dynasty rules, I'm 3rd in line for the leadership of my Turkmen tribe.

    I'm very much against the "middle class". There are only two.

    There are significantly more than two social classes in the west, this is a fantastically simplified viewpoint. I'd say we need at least 5 economic classes to give things any proper definition (and lord knows we need it), as for social classes that's a bit different (professional soldiers are higher than say, plumbers, regardless of disparity in income) but it really depends on the community.

    For me personally, I would have absolutely no interest interacting with individuals who give two shits about what somebody does for a living. My dad was a chemical engineer for ADM that made ridiculous cash (before he won a huge lawsuit and vanished) and my mom was an unemployed skill-less single woman with 3 kids who managed to go to college in her 30s and give us a better life, so I have no idea where that puts me.

    override367 on
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote:
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    "Learn to use computers and office products" is one of those things they should be forcing you to learn in high school cause damn is that shit useful.

  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    CptKemzik wrote:
    If people aren't being challenged even in the entry level classes (and i've had difficult low-level humanities classes), that is the fault of the professors in terms of organizing and presenting material; not the subject itself. And not everyone can glean that skill set by just reading advanced books on a subject in their own time, or know how to access advanced material in a subject on their own.

    I'm going to say a little about this and then springboard into something else. Actually, when a class is too easy, depending on the type of school (research-focused or teaching-focused), it's either the fault of the school for giving the professor no incentive to do a good job with his teaching or the fault of the students for threatening the professor with poor evaluations if he makes it too hard. Also, intro classes should be easier than sophomore and upper-level classes. They're usually intended to give you an overview of the subject without going into too much detail and they're often used as recruiting devices for the major.

    Universities actually have it pretty well right now. The public buys into the idea that a university education is necessary to get a good job, and while the university claims that its purpose is not job training (and it's really not), it's happy to let the public perception continue because it gets them more students. Two things muck things up, though. One is that state governments used to view the attainment of a university education by its populace to be in the public interest, so it used to fund higher education much better. Now it views the attainment of a university education primarily a benefit to the student, so it asks the student to shoulder a higher percentage of the cost. This leads to rising tuition, larger class sizes, etc., for public universities. Two is the strange incentives given to professors at universities. At research institutions, they're focused on getting grants and conducting research to the exclusion of almost everything else. Good teaching is usually not incentivized, and the best researchers get grants that buy out most of their teaching responsibilities. As a result, more and more classes are taught by TAs and adjunct faculty with fewer qualifications (adjuncts are part-time hires, usually paid about $3k per course with no benefits). At teaching institutions, student evaluations are usually the primary instrument by which professors are measured, so they have incentives to teach easy and entertaining classes rather than rigorous and time-consuming ones. Add to this that many students think that a university education is supposed to prepare them for the job market, and we're starting to get more classes that focus on specific menial tasks (intended to be job-related) rather than on more grand and abstract ideas. (How many times have you heard one of your classmates ask, "When are we ever going to use this?") In my opinion this is pulling the university away from what it was intended to be.

    Part of me also wonders if higher education is a bubble that's waiting to pop.

  • SavdecSavdec Registered User
    Deebaser wrote:
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    I didn't think that comment in particular was bitchy, but the response to the "no direct path" is just that the very critical thinking skills that people like me should be learning should in turn allow us to be able to sell ourselves to the shitty white-collar stuff. Interning, basic computer skills; these things are obviously necessary. But the problem isn't the degree. (Full disclosure: I'm aiming myself for a life of misery in academia. It's what I love and I'ma try as hard as I can to get to the point where I can do it for a living)

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  • BagginsesBagginses __BANNED USERS regular
    shryke wrote:
    Deebaser wrote:
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    "Learn to use computers and office products" is one of those things they should be forcing you to learn in high school cause damn is that shit useful.

    It's five minutes of job training. I've forgotten some stuff (still have trouble remembering how to make charts exactly how I want, but not even my mom, who has worked with the program constantly as far back as I can remember can figure that shit out).

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    shryke wrote:
    Deebaser wrote:
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    "Learn to use computers and office products" is one of those things they should be forcing you to learn in high school cause damn is that shit useful.

    It's five minutes of job training. I've forgotten some stuff (still have trouble remembering how to make charts exactly how I want, but not even my mom, who has worked with the program constantly as far back as I can remember can figure that shit out).

    If it was 5 minutes of job training, people wouldn't be so bad at it.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Bagginses wrote:
    shryke wrote:
    Deebaser wrote:
    Believe me, I totally understand that uncertainty can cause people in fields with no direct career path can cause people to be frustrated. Shit, I finished my undergrad with a stupid Political Science degree.

    It took a while, a few super shitty jobs, and a lot of hard work to get to where I am now. I'm not being a dick when I say "learn excel", it's a pretty important skill to have in a lot of entry level white collar gigs.

    "Learn to use computers and office products" is one of those things they should be forcing you to learn in high school cause damn is that shit useful.

    It's five minutes of job training. I've forgotten some stuff (still have trouble remembering how to make charts exactly how I want, but not even my mom, who has worked with the program constantly as far back as I can remember can figure that shit out).

    I've been trying to train my dad for 20 years now. We're not quite on the Microsoft Office stuff yet. Still on the "Stop downloading weird email attachments goddammit!" phase.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    My job is to tutor people in MS Office Suite and I never thought I'd learn anything, but in 2 years of doing it I can safely say that all the damn arcane shit like where certain rarely used options are hidden is pretty well seared into my mind.

    I kept thinking my job wasn't helpful for future employment but recently have been told otherwise by many people. Hoping they're right.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    My job is to tutor people in MS Office Suite and I never thought I'd learn anything, but in 2 years of doing it I can safely say that all the damn arcane shit like where certain rarely used options are hidden is pretty well seared into my mind.

    I kept thinking my job wasn't helpful for future employment but recently have been told otherwise by many people. Hoping they're right.

    And then they come out with Office 2007 and nothing works the way it used to :(

  • HeraldSHeraldS Registered User regular
    I recommend being dead broke and going to a good liberal arts school that has grants instead of loans. Working for me right now. $160-170k in cost, $0 actually paid, roughly $15k in federal loans over 4 years to cover what the school's grants don't. Easy peasy.

    (The flip side: leaving halfway through before they could kick me out, floating around for a year or two, working in a big city at a crazy job that barely paid the bills for three years, coming back after they changed their financial aid rules and fighting for almost another year to get the money, having to fight with them every semester to get the money, and having to push down the voice in the back of my head in the intervening years that told me I was worthless and would never amount to anything since I fucked up at school. Even when you don't pay, you pay. Be happy when all you have to give up for your education is money. You can get that back. Time, on the other hand...)

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    man I went to school for english, ended up spending most of my time doing technical theatre, left school (without the degree), worked for a telecom, and then for walmart, finished my degree (still haven't seen the damned piece of paper yet goddammit), and moved halfway around the world and am doing temp work for a telco down here.

    I'm gonna be 30 this upcoming weekend and to hell if I have any fraking idea what i want to do with my life. I actually think, last night, I might have had some kind of breakthrough. There's a job listing for a trainee zookeeper at the local zoo. they're opening up a new exhibit and looking for a new zookeeper. Only problem is, I don't have wild/live animal handling certification, any idea where to get that, and oh, I suck at science in so many ways that even thinking about going and getting a cert in biology would be laughable.

    But, that got me thinking. I used to go to daycamps at the zoo in philadelphia as a kid. and I used to love working as a camp counselor for 4-H growing up. What if I could take the organizational skills of a stage manager (hi theatre classes) and the creativity that is innately mine along with my desire to build a stronger community and kinda find a way to work into making day camps for kids. planning, organizing, and running day camps. How fraking cool would that be? No idea how to do it, or even get started, but I know with my education, my degree, and the skills I learned while getting my degree, I'd be capable of reaching that point easier.


    as for how my HS prepped me for Uni? I was lucky. We were pretty well prepared. 4 years English, 4 years math, 3 years science (with 4th optional), 3 years language (4th optional), 2 years PhysEd (3 & 4 optional), 3 years Social Stuides (Civics, World History, US History) (4th optional) and 2 electives every year, 2 years keyboarding and/or Computer science. I did

    4 English
    4 math
    4 science (Biology, Earth Science, Chemistry, A&P/Physics. I took A&P)
    3 Language (french. Started that in 7th grade, went to 11th. Still speak better spanish)
    2 PhysEd (I'm a fat girl)
    2 years keyboarding
    4 Social studies (Civics, World History (AP), US History, American Government & Psychology)
    And Electives I took shop, theatre, and graphic design (learned how to do some wicked drafting) and then senior year I did Computer Science (new requirement for graduation) and student teaching.

    I was pretty well rounded and very well prepared with proper study habits. (again back before NCLB)

    As for the other conversation going on in here between Liberal Arts/Hard Science

    Get over yourselves, all of you. Hard Science is difficult, we get that. and your degrees are structured. But some people just don't work that way, or think that way. Like me, I couldn't handle more than 2 weeks in a science classroom, my head just wasn't wired for it. And your head might not be wired to sit through an entire class of your professor reading you The Canterbury Tales (trust me, nobody's wired to sit through that... trust me), or a class on why James Joyce is the God of us all (yes, that actually happened to me... stupid professor). But just cause a Liberal Arts major's head works different than yours, or you just can't figure out how a hard science guy can't sit and read a book or write a sentence that doesn't sound like a car manual it doesn't make what they do any less than what you do.

    Somebody has to build the bridges and make the lights work and be able to know why the lights work. And somebody needs to be able to entertain the masses. And somebody needs to be able to understand the masses. And somebody needs to be able to take a good look at the rest of the world and see it in a different angle.

    So you've got a hard courseload. Alright. Mine was fairly easy. But then again, I wouldn't want to solder a circuit board anymore than you would enjoy writing a 5 page paper on how the stage version of a 1690's play is better than the version of it on paper and why. Your skills are yours, my skills are mine, and they are just as every bit as useful to the world, in some way or another, as anybody else's.


    To Fizban (I think) who doesn't know what he wants to do with his life... Honey, neither do I. and I'm turning 30. Try it all, something will fit and it's often going to be the thing you didn't think of.

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