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[Wisconsin] didn't mess it up for once

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    I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
    Last time I checked the numbers (which was a few years ago) Wisconsin's population was pretty much split 50/50 between the major metro and rural areas.

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    President RexPresident Rex Registered User regular
    I don't know what's going on this the redistricting talk in this thread.

    For the 2010 Census, Wisconsin had a population of about 5.7 million. The Census Bureau has the basic demographics as 87% white, 29% of the people over 25 with a bachelor's degree or higher, and about 12% below the (geographically defined) poverty line.

    Population is divided into 4.0 million (70%) urban and 1.7 million (30%) rural according to the bureau's 2010 guidelines (extra convoluted, works from a baseline of 1000 persons per square mile (ppm), but also works off a geographic basis that can go down to 500 ppm along with some other caveats).

    A better representation of urbanization is on Table 3. I feel like 27.4% of the population in 12 places of 50,000 people or more is probably the best 'urbanized' definition here for Wisconsin. That'd include La Crosse, Eau Claire and Kenosha (which lean Democrat) as well as Appleton, Green Bay and Oshkosh (which lean Republican). Smaller than that and you get a bunch more Republican small towns like Sheboygan and Menomonee Falls (also Brookfield and Waukesha, but I think the census technically rolls them up into the Milwaukee UA). Most of those also feel more like small towns cemented together instead of small cities.
    0z2ZmCH.png

    Wikipedia has a good breakdown of the current Congressional district setup and the Republican favoritism in the districts. For reference (all basically around 700,000 people):
    WI4 - D+25
    WI2 - D+18
    WI2 - D+0
    WI1 - R+5
    WI8 - R+7
    WI6 - R+8
    WI7 - R+8
    WI5 - R+13

    538 has a page exploring redistricting.

    For Wisconsin's own state assembly, the Washington Post has this breakdown. They also note that many democrats ran uncontested, leading to the partial disparity in D to R votes relative to seats. You can view the assembly, senate and congressional districts here.

    To me, that just says they districts are packed to the level of imbalance. Republicans not only get to have all the Democrats in +20 districts to win a few at +3 or +4, they can save money by not bothering to back a candidate.


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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/election-matters/following-judge-s-ruling-tony-evers-rescinds-scott-walker-appointees/article_99392d3e-bf78-5eea-b318-a430739ab4a9.html

    What's that, Lassie? Everything the bullshit lame duck session crammed through to screw over the incoming Democratic governor was unconstitutional? All 82 wingnut appointees have been rescinded and now the legislature will have to work with Evers to replace them?

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Hey Wisconsin I just heard the news! Good job!

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    God I hope the rat fucking republicans get told to eat rancid horseshit on their appeal.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    "Lack of respect for the rule of law", fuck you.

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    halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    :bro:

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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    I think you have a solid harassment case if he's emailing you those YouTube links.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    I think you have a solid harassment case if he's emailing you those YouTube links.

    Yep, any form of physical, verbal, or digital harassment can be held legally liable as creating a hostile work environment.

    Missouri courts are notoriously pro-employer/managment in almost any harassment or wrongful termination claims, but there are a couple Palestinian emegries at my workplace that got settlements from harassment suits over video links and Facebook/Instagram threats coming from one of their superiors.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
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    Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Part of it is intentional gerrymandering, but I seem to recall one of the twitter map wonks having a standing bet about nobody being able to draw a geographically sensible map of Wisconsin districts that doesn’t leave Democrats disadvantaged. Self-selected packing is also real in this case.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    I think you have a solid harassment case if he's emailing you those YouTube links.

    Yep, any form of physical, verbal, or digital harassment can be held legally liable as creating a hostile work environment.

    Missouri courts are notoriously pro-employer/managment in almost any harassment or wrongful termination claims, but there are a couple Palestinian emegries at my workplace that got settlements from harassment suits over video links and Facebook/Instagram threats coming from one of their superiors.

    In Wisconsin, political affiliation is not a protected in the workplace. Unless halkun can prove that he is being physically or verbally threatened there isnt anything that can be done. In fact, halkun could be fired specifically because of their politics and there isnt anything that can be done.

    I would maybe look for a new job, because that is not going to get better.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    I think you have a solid harassment case if he's emailing you those YouTube links.

    Yep, any form of physical, verbal, or digital harassment can be held legally liable as creating a hostile work environment.

    Missouri courts are notoriously pro-employer/managment in almost any harassment or wrongful termination claims, but there are a couple Palestinian emegries at my workplace that got settlements from harassment suits over video links and Facebook/Instagram threats coming from one of their superiors.

    In Wisconsin, political affiliation is not a protected in the workplace. Unless halkun can prove that he is being physically or verbally threatened there isnt anything that can be done. In fact, halkun could be fired specifically because of their politics and there isnt anything that can be done.

    I would maybe look for a new job, because that is not going to get better.

    Seriously? That seems pretty fucked up.

    I get political affiliation is not a protected class, and that means discussions in the hallway or breakroom can't be curtailed as a result.

    But when it comes to direct communication, either in person or via phone or email, if Halkun makes it clear they aren't interested, there's no harrassment issue?

    Wouldn't matter if it was politics, reality shows, sports or offspring. If I'm in a workplace, and someone is consistently communicating to me on a non-work related subject that I've actively expressed my disinterest in ("I do not want to talk about this subject"), and they continue, repeatedly, ESPECIALLY if it's to piss me off?

    How is that not textbook workplace harrassment?

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    US is notoriously famous for having shit worker protections for a developed nation.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    halkun wrote: »
    At my new job, I work with a right wing conspiracy theorist. He was not happy with the ruling. He blamed it (of course) on "all the liberals in Dane county". Madison is where the 9th district court is. Didn't want to hear it. Also blamed Eavers being elected for Foxconn leaving. I asked what kind of company would build a plant on the 50/50 chance that the right governor will be elected in office. He fed me the line that democrats should have never be elected to office again. (Insinuating that it was illegal, with his "We are not a democracy/we are a republic" line). He started sending me links to PragerU videos.

    He's my Team lead.. this is going to be a treat.

    I think you have a solid harassment case if he's emailing you those YouTube links.

    Yep, any form of physical, verbal, or digital harassment can be held legally liable as creating a hostile work environment.

    Missouri courts are notoriously pro-employer/managment in almost any harassment or wrongful termination claims, but there are a couple Palestinian emegries at my workplace that got settlements from harassment suits over video links and Facebook/Instagram threats coming from one of their superiors.

    In Wisconsin, political affiliation is not a protected in the workplace. Unless halkun can prove that he is being physically or verbally threatened there isnt anything that can be done. In fact, halkun could be fired specifically because of their politics and there isnt anything that can be done.

    I would maybe look for a new job, because that is not going to get better.

    Seriously? That seems pretty fucked up.

    I get political affiliation is not a protected class, and that means discussions in the hallway or breakroom can't be curtailed as a result.

    But when it comes to direct communication, either in person or via phone or email, if Halkun makes it clear they aren't interested, there's no harrassment issue?

    Wouldn't matter if it was politics, reality shows, sports or offspring. If I'm in a workplace, and someone is consistently communicating to me on a non-work related subject that I've actively expressed my disinterest in ("I do not want to talk about this subject"), and they continue, repeatedly, ESPECIALLY if it's to piss me off?

    How is that not textbook workplace harrassment?

    I mean, it is harassment. Doesn't mean there are sufficient legal protections against retaliation if they point it out.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    I work in a liberal campus environment. Our harrassment policy makes clear that protections against harrassment ONLY apply to the federally protected classes. And shit like that is why unions exist.

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    halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    He's not that bad, you have to "poke the hornet's nest" to get him to pipe up. (I walked in on the conversation) He was just trying to prove his point by citing his source when I asked him about a subject, it was just unfortunate it was a PragerU video, which I rebutted, but we have quickly discovered that we may have an unstoppable force/unmoveable object situation. He has no problem with keeping opinions to himself if asked.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I'm less about the raw legalistic perspective on it, and more the workplace policy thing.

    Even if it wasn't for ethical reasons, as an employer/manager I just couldn't see myself not saying "Cut that shit out!", and as an employee on the sideline, I'd have no respect for an employer/manager that didn't.

    Even if it's purely for productivity purposes. The harasser is wasting company time with this shit, and the target having to deal with this shit isn't having a fully productive day either.

    Just don't get it.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    I'm less about the raw legalistic perspective on it, and more the workplace policy thing.

    Even if it wasn't for ethical reasons, as an employer/manager I just couldn't see myself not saying "Cut that shit out!", and as an employee on the sideline, I'd have no respect for an employer/manager that didn't.

    Even if it's purely for productivity purposes. The harasser is wasting company time with this shit, and the target having to deal with this shit isn't having a fully productive day either.

    Just don't get it.

    The number of American offices that basically emulate high school is amazing. It is really the big difference between places that maintain an emphasis on manager training and those who just pick random people and declare them managers.

    The more professional environments have their own problems, but there is a special sort of hell when a group of randos is thrown together with nothing but orders and a leader chosen for who knows what reason.

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    DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    Seniority or nepotism, 90% of the time.

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    I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
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    halkunhalkun Registered User regular
    edited March 2019
    I downloaded the ruling from last week. It's kind of open-and shut. If you can't call a regular session of the legislature, all tabled bills are held till the next session. It's in the Wisconsin Constitution in as black and white as possible. There is no such thing as an "extraordinary session" as it was written. It's nor even an interpretation thing. They quote the Wisconsin Constitution in the ruling.

    I know the federal system is going bananas right now, but I feel a little better protected from the inane gunk happening as a Wisconsinite.

    halkun on
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    halkun wrote: »
    I downloaded the ruling from last week. It's kind of open-and shut. If you can't call a regular session of the legislature, all tabled bills are held till the next session. It's in the Wisconsin Constitution in as black and white as possible. There is no such thing as an "extraordinary session" as it was written. It's nor even an interpretation thing. They quote the Wisconsin Constitution in the ruling.

    I know the federal system is going bananas right now, but I feel a little better protected from the inane gunk happening as a Wisconsinite.

    You and I may think its cut and dry, but there is a judge that doesnt

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/wisconsin-appeals-court-restores-laws-from-lame-duck-session/2019/03/27/67db26b8-50fc-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html
    Multiple liberal-leaning groups have challenged the laws in separate lawsuits. Last week Dane County Circuit Judge Richard Niess blocked the statutes, finding lawmakers convened illegally when they passed them.

    The 3rd District Court of Appeals essentially wiped out that ruling Wednesday by granting a GOP request for a stay. The court said Niess underestimated Republicans’ chances for succes on appeal as well as the harm that blocking potentially valid legislation can cause.

    But on Tuesday another Dane County judge, Frank Remington, invalidated portions of the laws that directly affect Evers and Kaul on different grounds in a separate lawsuit. That ruling stands despite the appeals court’s stay, which means those provisions remain unenforceable.

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    It looks like the conservatives may end up with a 5-2 majority on the Wisconsin supreme court, unless Neubauer finds a few thousand extra votes somewhere in the last few remaining precincts.

    That will ensure Evers' hands are tightly tied for the rest of his term.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    It looks like the conservatives may end up with a 5-2 majority on the Wisconsin supreme court, unless Neubauer finds a few thousand extra votes somewhere in the last few remaining precincts.

    That will ensure Evers' hands are tightly tied for the rest of his term.

    Wait, what? Last I saw said Neubauer was up by 7000. Still inside the recount minimum, but ahead.

    https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Neubauer-ahead-of-Hagedorn-in-early-returns-508032151.html

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited April 2019
    MorganV wrote: »
    Hedgethorn wrote: »
    It looks like the conservatives may end up with a 5-2 majority on the Wisconsin supreme court, unless Neubauer finds a few thousand extra votes somewhere in the last few remaining precincts.

    That will ensure Evers' hands are tightly tied for the rest of his term.

    Wait, what? Last I saw said Neubauer was up by 7000. Still inside the recount minimum, but ahead.

    https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Neubauer-ahead-of-Hagedorn-in-early-returns-508032151.html

    With 97% in, Hagedorn is up by about 4,000 votes. There will be a recount, but the conservative is presently in the lead by .2% or so.

    Hedgethorn on
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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?
    Probably lot of people were not even aware of the election.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    That's a pretty big fucking failure by the state Democratic party, then. Cause all those lame duck laws that stripped Evers of any power and were ruled unconditional by the lower courts will be ruled perfectly valid and he'll be stripped of all his powers again (which will be subsequently repealed once Scott Walker part II is elected).

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?

    It's a massive known issue. Democrats come out and vote in the Presidential, often stay home in the mid-terms (2018 was an exception), and often just flake completely on special elections. Again, there are exceptions, like Doug Jones in Alabama, but they often don't go that way.

    It's something the Republican voters manage to keep in step on. They vote. Comparatively consistently.

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    HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Democratic turnout was up substantially from last year's court race.

    Republican turnout was up even more.


    Hedgethorn on
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    FYI, Hagedorn was listed first on the ballot, which to me explains the less than 1% difference because people are stupid and will just vote for the first name if they don't know or remember who to vote for.

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    VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    edited April 2019
    Veevee wrote: »
    FYI, Hagedorn was listed first on the ballot, which to me explains the less than 1% difference because people are stupid and will just vote for the first name if they don't know or remember who to vote for.

    First on every ballot? Isn't it supposed to be randomized?

    Veagle on
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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Veagle wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    FYI, Hagedorn was listed first on the ballot, which to me explains the less than 1% difference because people are stupid and will just vote for the first name if they don't know or remember who to vote for.

    First on every ballot? Isn't it supposed to be randomized?

    No, and the reason for this is because if someone can not read they will still be able to vote by being told by a trusted source which line to vote for. No one, not even a child or poll worker, is supposed to be in the voting booth with a voter.

    In Wisconsin the person listed first is the same across the state, and it's set according to party on a rotating basis. So if the fall election lists Democrats first, then the next fall election will put republicans first. Because the supreme court is supposed to be non-partisan the person listed first is randomly chosen.

    Also, I want this to be clear, this was not a special election. This was the spring election because Wisconsin literally has an election every first Tuesday or April.

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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Has there ever been any movement to change how justices are picked?

    Some states have an appointment process where a committee from the state bar pick the list of candidates (usually 3-5 IIRC) that the governor can choose from, in the hope that it leads to a more moderate Supreme Court.

    Here in Missouri that's how the Supreme Court and appellate court judges are selected, with counties and cities having the option to opt-in on the process for the local districts (which is why I'm always a bit surprised about how widespread elections for judges are, because I've never voted for one, other than for retention.)

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    kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?
    Probably lot of people were not even aware of the election.

    Yup the biggest problem for democrats is the young voting base is REALLY hard to mobilize for the odd ball early spring elections they don't pay attention until it is too late basically. This is how the state got into its current mess it is in with the gerrymandering. Dems vote in presidential elections and then just don't in the lesser ones.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?
    Probably lot of people were not even aware of the election.

    Yup the biggest problem for democrats is the young voting base is REALLY hard to mobilize for the odd ball early spring elections they don't pay attention until it is too late basically. This is how the state got into its current mess it is in with the gerrymandering. Dems vote in presidential elections and then just don't in the lesser ones.

    Which is the entire reason those elections are held that way instead of being at the same time as federal ones.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?
    Probably lot of people were not even aware of the election.

    Yup the biggest problem for democrats is the young voting base is REALLY hard to mobilize for the odd ball early spring elections they don't pay attention until it is too late basically. This is how the state got into its current mess it is in with the gerrymandering. Dems vote in presidential elections and then just don't in the lesser ones.

    Which is the entire reason those elections are held that way instead of being at the same time as federal ones.

    Nah, the idea was that the non partisan elections would happen in the spring, while partisan elections are in the fall. It might be time to admit the supreme court elections are no longer non-partisan, but that also completely undermines their authority.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Veevee wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Wow what the fuck Wisconsin? You elect a Democrat for governor just 6 months ago, then give Republicans a supermajority Supreme Court?
    Probably lot of people were not even aware of the election.

    Yup the biggest problem for democrats is the young voting base is REALLY hard to mobilize for the odd ball early spring elections they don't pay attention until it is too late basically. This is how the state got into its current mess it is in with the gerrymandering. Dems vote in presidential elections and then just don't in the lesser ones.

    Which is the entire reason those elections are held that way instead of being at the same time as federal ones.

    Nah, the idea was that the non partisan elections would happen in the spring, while partisan elections are in the fall. It might be time to admit the supreme court elections are no longer non-partisan, but that also completely undermines their authority.

    There is no such thing as a non-partisan election.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Hot take, the judiciary should not be publicly elected.

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