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Provisional [chat] (READ THE OP)

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Posts

  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote:
    Gooey wrote:
    what the hell does that comic even mean

    just looking at the word bit coin makes me angry

    I think they are trying to say that now is a bad time to sell because prices are low, with an underlying assumption that bitcoins have no where to go but up, and then he feels sellers remorse because he could have (not) made a fortune with bitcoins if only he hadn't listened to their (wise) advice.

    Buuuut he'd make his profit not in Bitcoins. He sold his Bitcoins. If they want Bitcoins to be the new currency, they shouldn't make comics about how you should buy some and sell them so you can have real currency,

    I'm guessing that someone who makes a weekly webcomic about bitcoins has given up on drinking the kool-aid and now just takes it in via IV. And he's trying to mock those people who are bailing out in hopes it will inspire others to continue to hold and use bitcoins. Which have been dropping in value.

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    I'll go a step further and say I totally disagree with it.

    @Inquisitor: I think a much fairer point is that some writers chase ghosts. They want to write the next Great American Novel, or the next Neuromancer, or whatever. And that's a bad goal. Having a good story idea is one of the most important elements of writing a good story. I would agree with that. But I don't think there's anything inherently inferior in a writing process that chooses a genre first.

    *shrugs* Sitting down and going "I want to write a fantasy novel!" before you even have an inkling of a story seems decently backwards to me. Seems like a very confining place to start.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote:
    Gooey wrote:
    what the hell does that comic even mean

    just looking at the word bit coin makes me angry

    I think they are trying to say that now is a bad time to sell because prices are low, with an underlying assumption that bitcoins have no where to go but up, and then he feels sellers remorse because he could have (not) made a fortune with bitcoins if only he hadn't listened to their (wise) advice.

    Buuuut he'd make his profit not in Bitcoins. He sold his Bitcoins. If they want Bitcoins to be the new currency, they shouldn't make comics about how you should buy some and sell them so you can have real currency,

    yes they should?

    if they can get people to actually start trading in their currency they can get people to trade with their currency

    ftOqU21.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    if it wasn't you know

    the worst idea

    ftOqU21.png
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Good writers (not that I'm really endorsing harry potter as good writing here) generally don't sit down and go "I'm going to write some high fantasy now!" they go "Man, i want to write this story that's been milling around my head for a while." and then people sort it into genre later.

    I don't necessarily agree with this. Though the latter is what happens a good deal of the time, good writing can also come from challenging yourself.

    There are countless people (Tarantino in film comes to mind) that say "you know, I really want to give a good science-fiction story a try." or "I'd love to write something quieter."

    These things just happen and produce good work at probably the same rate.

    Tarantino makes Tarantino movies. That is his genre.

    Dude has done western, will do spaghetti western, mob movie, exploitation movie, revenge flick, etc etc...

    Im aware that Tarantino's ideas come before the genre he chooses but my point is that choosing a genre in many cases is just as important as the actual story.

    There are some great stories that would work terribly in other genres.

    What I'm saying is that while Rowling is not lying, and is probably using the word "fantasy" in terms of the FANTASY section of borders, I completely and utterly don't buy that when the thought of Harry Potter first came to her, she was totally unaware that she was working in the realm of the fantastical and magical.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I am amused by the underlying assumption by the purveyors of bitcoin people that the currency is better because it exists outside the influence of the governmental sphere

    one day some currency trader is going to make a fucking mint on the stuff (no pun intended) by manipulating the bitcoin market specifically because there is no governmental regulation.

    I would be surprised if there isn't already someone out there at an I-bank dreaming up a scheme right now

    Gooey on
    919UOwT.png
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    I do like this article though.
    "Harry goes off into this magical world, and is it any better than the world he's left? Only because he meets nicer people. Magic does not make his world better significantly. The relationships make his world better. Magic in many ways complicates his life."

    I can certainly see why she's not a big fan of fantasy. Among the various other reasons.

    Quid on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    I'll go a step further and say I totally disagree with it.

    @Inquisitor: I think a much fairer point is that some writers chase ghosts. They want to write the next Great American Novel, or the next Neuromancer, or whatever. And that's a bad goal. Having a good story idea is one of the most important elements of writing a good story. I would agree with that. But I don't think there's anything inherently inferior in a writing process that chooses a genre first.

    *shrugs* Sitting down and going "I want to write a fantasy novel!" before you even have an inkling of a story seems decently backwards to me. Seems like a very confining place to start.

    No offense, but if you think "fantasy" is confining, I don't think the problem lies with the supposed bad writers you are commenting on.

    "Fantasy" is about as confining as "book."

    Drez on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Thomamelas wrote:
    Gooey wrote:
    what the hell does that comic even mean

    just looking at the word bit coin makes me angry

    I think they are trying to say that now is a bad time to sell because prices are low, with an underlying assumption that bitcoins have no where to go but up, and then he feels sellers remorse because he could have (not) made a fortune with bitcoins if only he hadn't listened to their (wise) advice.

    Buuuut he'd make his profit not in Bitcoins. He sold his Bitcoins. If they want Bitcoins to be the new currency, they shouldn't make comics about how you should buy some and sell them so you can have real currency,

    yes they should?

    if they can get people to actually start trading in their currency they can get people to trade with their currency

    Not really. Trading in gold doesn't make it easier to trade with gold.

  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote:
    I am amused by the underlying assumption by the purveyors of bitcoin people that the currency is better because it exists outside the influence of the governmental sphere

    one day some currency trader is going to make a fucking mint on the stuff (no pun intended) by manipulating the bitcoin market specifically because there is no governmental regulation.

    I would be surprised if there isn't already someone out there at an I-bank dreaming up a scheme right now

    it's more likely to be an EVE player

    JKKaAGp.png
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    No offense, but if you think "fantasy" is confining, I don't think the problem lies with the supposed bad writers you are commenting on.

    "Fantasy" is about as confining as "book."

    Whatevs. Neither of us seem really interested in having earnest discourse on the topic so *shrugs*

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Specifically the guy who said "You do need a degree for sure to get a job" is laughably wrong.

    I think I just have, um... what is the thing? Wealth envy? Class envy? No one in my family gets a degree. Maybe it's just a fanciful conceit but a real, accredited 4 year degree has always been my mental litmus test for having 'made it'. I guess that's a sad reflection of how low class my family is, haha.

    Whatever, I will see what happens. Still studying my ass off. I'm going to apply myself and look for work at the same time while also researching scholastic options.
    My primary concern is that there's a big expansion on at the moment, and I have trouble seeing the utility of taken on tens of thousands of dollars in debt and the potential of graduating a hiring cycle lull given that the industry is one of the most friendly to self-taught professionals around.

    There are three devs at my company and I'm the only one with a BSc, and I don't feel that the other two suffer for not having them given what it is we do (and what it is we do is the area where there are more jobs than people, currently).

    What is the general path for non-educated hiring? I see the github thing- do you just submit a portfolio of completed projects with your resume?

    All anybody really wants is to find candidates who can actually program.

    I know it sounds retarded, but most people who apply, people with long resumes and degrees and who are gainfully employed as programmers, cannot fucking program their way out of a paper bag. There's a very well known blog post describing this phenomenon: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html

    So your best bet (IMO) would be to put anything you build up on github, and just keep stretching the limits of what you can build. Read programming blogs related to what you're learning (I can probably point you at some). Read things like http://news.ycombinator.com/news to stay abreast of developments in the start-up/web dev world. Read other people's code.

    Then once you've got a bit more time under your belt and for ease of hiring, learn web dev in something like Ruby on Rails, put together some small web apps, get whose source you publish on github, and submit applications pointing at this github account full of things you've built.

    Working code I can look at and say "Yeah, this guy can code and I can see how his thought processes have evolved" is worth far more than a degree.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    An eve player who i-banks on the side

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    No offense, but if you think "fantasy" is confining, I don't think the problem lies with the supposed bad writers you are commenting on.

    "Fantasy" is about as confining as "book."

    Whatevs. Neither of us seem really interested in having earnest discourse on the topic so *shrugs*

    True. At least not in the post-modern forum chat post treehouse genre. ;)

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Bitcoins to replace ISK.

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Bah, can you not delete posts on this new forum? Because the post I made to Drez came off as far more smarmy than I intended to be, oh wells.

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    No offense, but if you think "fantasy" is confining, I don't think the problem lies with the supposed bad writers you are commenting on.

    "Fantasy" is about as confining as "book."

    Whatevs. Neither of us seem really interested in having earnest discourse on the topic so *shrugs*

    No, there is plenty of earnest discussion going on. "confining" yourself via genre is pretty normal, to say the least.

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Bah, can you not delete posts on this new forum? Because the post I made to Drez came off as far more smarmy than I intended to be, oh wells.

    No but you can edit them to say things that aren't smarmy.

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Quid wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Bah, can you not delete posts on this new forum? Because the post I made to Drez came off as far more smarmy than I intended to be, oh wells.

    No but you can edit them to say things that aren't smarmy.

    But that takes thought and effort!

  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Drez wrote:
    I'll go a step further and say I totally disagree with it.

    @Inquisitor: I think a much fairer point is that some writers chase ghosts. They want to write the next Great American Novel, or the next Neuromancer, or whatever. And that's a bad goal. Having a good story idea is one of the most important elements of writing a good story. I would agree with that. But I don't think there's anything inherently inferior in a writing process that chooses a genre first.

    *shrugs* Sitting down and going "I want to write a fantasy novel!" before you even have an inkling of a story seems decently backwards to me. Seems like a very confining place to start.

    Confining, possibly, but I think the caveat here is using the term "good writer". Sure, if a bad writer sits down and says "I want to write fantasy!", what they are going to write will suck. But if a bad writer sits down and goes "I have an idea for a story" there is a nonzero chance that that story will also suck.

    So much of writing is understanding genre norms and expectations, and then using those genre expectations and norms to your advantage by either subverting or affirming them, with best results being to mix them up (see: George RR Martin).

    I'd actually find it really difficult to write something without any kind of genre in mind. I liken it to liquid. Pouring water onto a table just spills out into a million different directions. Pouring water into a mold holds it all where it needs to be.

    so whereas some people may say that defining a genre outright is confining, I would say that a good writer uses that knowledge to enhance the story, and turns those confines into cool tricks to please the audience.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    a currency that fluctuates way way way more than, well, all other currencies, and has multiple values across several exchanges?

    Sounds awesome.

    ftOqU21.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Bah, can you not delete posts on this new forum? Because the post I made to Drez came off as far more smarmy than I intended to be, oh wells.

    Dude, I don't take offense. Hopefully you didn't take offense to what I said either.

    Personally I just feel a kind of dull urge to roll my eyes when someone starts talking about what bad writers do and what good writers do. I don't think any of us here are really qualified to pass judgment on anyone to that degree. And yeah I may have taken it a little personally because I have started a number of projects with an eye on a particular genre first. I don't see how that makes my process inferior in any way. Sure, if you become a slave to the genre, then your work can suffer. But a genre can be a guide too. And boundaries are tools in and of themselves. They aren't bad or good, they just exist.

    Drez on
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    Also Inqui my posts are not calling you out or anything I just really enjoy talking about writing so I hop on the topic when it comes up.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    As an author of a NYT #1 bestseller

    /learnedhand

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Organichu wrote:
    Senjutsu wrote:
    Specifically the guy who said "You do need a degree for sure to get a job" is laughably wrong.

    I think I just have, um... what is the thing? Wealth envy? Class envy? No one in my family gets a degree. Maybe it's just a fanciful conceit but a real, accredited 4 year degree has always been my mental litmus test for having 'made it'. I guess that's a sad reflection of how low class my family is, haha.

    Whatever, I will see what happens. Still studying my ass off. I'm going to apply myself and look for work at the same time while also researching scholastic options.
    My primary concern is that there's a big expansion on at the moment, and I have trouble seeing the utility of taken on tens of thousands of dollars in debt and the potential of graduating a hiring cycle lull given that the industry is one of the most friendly to self-taught professionals around.

    There are three devs at my company and I'm the only one with a BSc, and I don't feel that the other two suffer for not having them given what it is we do (and what it is we do is the area where there are more jobs than people, currently).

    What is the general path for non-educated hiring? I see the github thing- do you just submit a portfolio of completed projects with your resume?

    All anybody really wants is to find candidates who can actually program.

    I know it sounds retarded, but most people who apply, people with long resumes and degrees and who are gainfully employed as programmers, cannot fucking program their way out of a paper bag. There's a very well known blog post describing this phenomenon: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html

    So your best bet (IMO) would be to put anything you build up on github, and just keep stretching the limits of what you can build. Read programming blogs related to what you're learning (I can probably point you at some). Read things like http://news.ycombinator.com/news to stay abreast of developments in the start-up/web dev world. Read other people's code.

    Then once you've got a bit more time under your belt and for ease of hiring, learn web dev in something like Ruby on Rails, put together some small web apps, get whose source you publish on github, and submit applications pointing at this github account full of things you've built.

    Working code I can look at and say "Yeah, this guy can code and I can see how his thought processes have evolved" is worth far more than a degree.

    @Senjutsu

    Thanks!

    And while I can't say definitively that I can 'solve problems using recursion', I can definitely accomplish the other simple litmus tests on that blog (in C++, at least).

    I appreciate all the advice.

    Organichu on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I don't think a story having confinement from genre is a bad thing at all.

    Some of the most interesting stores have been made by taking on interesting sets of confinements to work within. Like how each short story by Calvino in Cosmicomics works within the limits of a different scientific concept.

    Also: It seems every time someone quotes something with an @ me in it, I am alerted. That's kinda...spammy. I should see if there are settings to muck with.

  • jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote:
    I am amused by the underlying assumption by the purveyors of bitcoin people that the currency is better because it exists outside the influence of the governmental sphere

    one day some currency trader is going to make a fucking mint on the stuff (no pun intended) by manipulating the bitcoin market specifically because there is no governmental regulation.

    I would be surprised if there isn't already someone out there at an I-bank dreaming up a scheme right now

    it's more likely to be an EVE player

    Oh god, that is so what is going to happen. It's actually pretty much what is already going on, when exchanging ISK for real money is endorsed by CCP.

    bgg / steam / goodreads / Bnet: Bygasto#2537
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote:
    Abdhyius wrote:
    Thomamelas wrote:
    Gooey wrote:
    what the hell does that comic even mean

    just looking at the word bit coin makes me angry

    I think they are trying to say that now is a bad time to sell because prices are low, with an underlying assumption that bitcoins have no where to go but up, and then he feels sellers remorse because he could have (not) made a fortune with bitcoins if only he hadn't listened to their (wise) advice.

    Buuuut he'd make his profit not in Bitcoins. He sold his Bitcoins. If they want Bitcoins to be the new currency, they shouldn't make comics about how you should buy some and sell them so you can have real currency,

    yes they should?

    if they can get people to actually start trading in their currency they can get people to trade with their currency

    Not really. Trading in gold doesn't make it easier to trade with gold.

    It does. It establishes a value for gold.

    If no-one bought and sold gold, then, well.

    also, it's basically everything bitcoins can be used for, isn't it

    buy a bunch, wait for the insanocurrency to have some radically different price then try to sell it for a profit

    who actually takes it as payment?

    ftOqU21.png
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Bitcoins have a limited total amount, are expected to be deflationary in behavior, are negligibly liquid due to the lack of a buyer of last resort, and are not under the control of a central authority.

    They're interesting only in that they reveal the fundamental contradiction of the gold-standard guys: when your idea of a currency is a thing with those properties, you haven't designed a currency at all, you've designed a commodity.

    Senjutsu on
    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Drez wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    Bah, can you not delete posts on this new forum? Because the post I made to Drez came off as far more smarmy than I intended to be, oh wells.

    Dude, I don't take offense. Hopefully you didn't take offense to what I said either.

    Personally I just feel a kind of dull urge to roll my eyes when someone starts talking about what bad writers do and what good writers do. I don't think any of us here are really qualified to pass judgment on anyone to that degree. And yeah I may have taken it a little personally because I have started a number of projects with an eye on a particular genre first. I don't see how that makes my process inferior in any way. Sure, if you become a slave to the genre, then your work can suffer. But a genre can be a guide too. And boundaries are tools in and of themselves. They aren't bad or good, they just exist.

    Nah it's all good dude. I think I am just a little tired and touchy from work for no good reason. I unraveled bundled up string and wrapped it back around a spool for about five straight hours. I think part of my brain broke.

    Eh, actually, thinking about it more, I think it would be very hard for a modern writer to write without a genre at least in the back of their head, even if they aren't directly setting out with a genre goal in mind.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote:
    I don't think a story having confinement from genre is a bad thing at all.

    Some of the most interesting stores have been made by taking on interesting sets of confinements to work within. Like how each short story by Calvino in Cosmicomics works within the limits of a different scientific concept.

    Also: It seems every time someone quotes something with an @ me in it, I am alerted. That's kinda...spammy. I should see if there are settings to muck with.

    There are! Go to your user page.

  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    I think the important distinction to make about choosing genre is thinking a genre is neat and trying to copy it v understanding a genre and its conventions and norms and deciding that you want to work with them.

    That is why I think Tarantino is such a gifted writer.

    I mean, the amount of genre-crossing and referential pieces in Inglourious Basterds is absurd. Tarantino just has such a huge knowledge of film and genre history that he can bounce between them, mesh them and subvert them without anyone actually knowing or caring.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    And I would call Rowling a "good writer" anyway. Is she the most academic writer? No. Does she overrely on adverbs? Holy fuck. But she created a world that engaged and continues to engage a majority of the people that come into contact with her books. At the end of the day, I think a writer's job is to (a) communicate and (b) engage and if you succeeded at both, then you are a good writer.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Hah, bitcoins are used for a online contraband marketplace. Awesome. God, I love the internet.

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote:
    I am amused by the underlying assumption by the purveyors of bitcoin people that the currency is better because it exists outside the influence of the governmental sphere

    one day some currency trader is going to make a fucking mint on the stuff (no pun intended) by manipulating the bitcoin market specifically because there is no governmental regulation.

    I would be surprised if there isn't already someone out there at an I-bank dreaming up a scheme right now

    DDoS two mid-size exchanges. Start spreading a rumor they've been hacked. Watch price drop like the last time it happened. Buy low. Wait two weeks. Set up a fake Amazon PR announcement that they will be accepting bitcoin due the the sales tax issue. Sell high.

  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote:
    @Senjutsu

    Thanks!

    And while I can't say definitively that I can 'solve problems using recursion', I can definitely accomplish the other simple litmus tests on that blog (in C++, at least).

    I appreciate all the advice.

    Recursion tends to be one of the last fundamentals that falls into place as you struggle over the learning hump. I can vividly remember when it clicked for me, and I'd been programming for around a year and a half at that point.

    Sarksus wrote: »
    I'm gonna get a PhD in incest.
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote:
    As an author of a NYT #1 bestseller

    /learnedhand

    lulz.

    I'm a published writer and have a very unique and interesting writing style. I'm also sharp and witty. My profile is well-written and hilarious. My messages are likewise brilliant. And I've been doing this stuff for...four or five years. I know what "works" in terms of good internet dating writing. "Works" in the sense of leading to a "date" with a human female.

    twitch.tv/onthelastcastle
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Drez: Fair enough. To be fair, I also only read the first three books, and it's my understanding that she grows as a writer over the course of the series as well.

    Anyway, my dinner is reading so, omnomnomnom time.

This discussion has been closed.