Are any Republic characters able to be Chiss, or is that an Empire only race?
Empire only as far as we know, as they can be BH/IAs.
Blah. That's too bad. I'd like to make a Chiss Inquisitor at some point. Hopefully they get a bit less restrictive with their race/class combinations as time goes on.
Or on the flip side, are there any Republic-only races? Something that isn't available to the Empire? I'd be ok with this as long as there was symmetry in the restrictions.
Visas Marr looked so cool in KOTOR2, but none of the player character Miralukans look cool at all. I am disappointed.
i think the issue is the playable ones have these sunglasses on that look like what the blind will ware in earths furture in the back to the future movies or 2015.
which according to the movie in 4 years we have flying cars, 15 more jaws movies (14 if you count the straight to video jaws 5 made by itliaian rip off filmmakers which their movies can be only get here by bootleg) cubs to win the world series, another maimi MLB team in the AL to lose to the cubs in 2015 world series, and small pizzas that turn into a big pizza.
alyways i am rather bothered that there seem to be a lone Twi'lek in sith classes, i know balaince and all but i wish it was a chiss.
i think i be purblood SI with my cousin and Mirialan trooper with the PA guild. (becuase the race is a good blend of my rodian in SWG and my blood elf pally in wow, maybe give it a haircut like my undead mage from the pre tbc days. green skin, red hair and bringing sexy back to a race of warroir jesus freaks.
Yeah, that's really disappointing with as many class quests as it sounds like this game has that they don't have a smuggler mission where you smuggle things. I'd love to do a quest chain where I'm making deliveries for a hutt lord or something. How can an entire class be based on Han Solo without even attempting to deliver the quintessential Han Solo experience? I want to be making space flights with illegal cargo through restricted space. I want to fend off bounty hunters who are looking for me because I'm 3 weeks late on a delivery.
Bioware needs to hire me to write their class quests for the smuggler.
Man, That mmo-champ thread just devoled into garbage without leaks to prop it up. I guess it's time to just stop hunting for leaks. Hopefully the 2 shows coming in august will help.
Kinda hard being a spy when everybody knows what you are.
Which is why the Chiss don't make any sense either, or rattaki...
Something makes me think they haven't thought that part trough.
Not going to stop me from making my chiss agent.
I love the Chiss, but I didn't want to make a carbon copy of the dude in the Agent video. For the same reason, I didn't want to make a Pureblood Sith Inquisitor or Sith Warrior, but it looks like purebloods don't get to be anything except that. I don't know enough about the Rattaki to care about them one way or the other. There's just something weird about the Star Wars MMO obsession with twileks that turns me away from wanting to play a twilekk.
I think they said at one point that Mirulans make the best consulars...well that's great and all but why would you want a MMO where virtually every consular is a mirulan or a miraluka? It just seems like they're pigeonholing the races a bit too much.
Besides, just like people complaining that Smuggler doesn't really have much smuggling, does anyone really think Agent is really going to have much...spying?
They ought to make an attempt at that though. I mean, that's what gives those classes their flavor.
Part of the whole "MMO experience" is being able to immerse yourself more deeply in the world than a single-player game would ever allow. Part of that immersion, for me anyway, is going to be able to experience the things that make each class unique. If I'm playing a Smuggler, I want to do Smuggler type things. I want to smuggle stuff. I want secret compartments on my ship that I can cleverly hide illegal goods in and trick boarding parties. I want to make the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs.
Similarly, if I'm playing an Imperial Agent, I want to be the James Bond of Star Wars. I want to assassinate key republic figureheads. I want to steal encrypted files. I want to seduce my way to information.
If I'm playing a Trooper, I want to take part in squad battles, participate in the camaraderie and ribbing that is a part of being a soldier. If you've ever seen the episode titled "Rookies" in the Clone Wars cartoon, that's like my perfect newbie quest right there.
No matter what class I'm playing, there are just certain expectations I have for what I will be doing as that class, at least during quests that have specifically been designated as class quests. Sure, once I start getting more involved with the Republic/Empire questlines, a lot of that flavor will go away, but I think Bioware needs to make a concerted effort to make unique class experiences available at various stages of the game, including end-game.
I would LOVE to go on an end-game class quest which was heavily story based and focused on the core elements of what makes that class unique. I definitely don't want to see the class flavor and class quests disappear at mid level. They need to occasionally pepper these quests back in, just to make the player feel connected to who they are other than their faction affiliation.
I would LOVE to go on an end-game class quest which was heavily story based and focused on the core elements of what makes that class unique.
I'll second that. I'd also applaud anything that provided some variety from a standard team structure. A class-specific instance for example, where four of a particular class solve the mission in ways that are unique to its class. Anything that can help break the -tank, heal, DPS, utility - chain gang would be really interesting.
However, RP might also be what some of you are looking for. Working with other role players you can often create stories, adventures that highlight your class. You can use dueling and other in-game elements to add combat and action to it. RP provides a great sense of exactly who your character is. It's why I always scream for user-generated content, because you can begin to create your own content that's specifically catered to the characters of your friends and yourself.
it seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes. But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically, Smuggler and Agent typically work behind the scenes and would require patience. but MMOs don't cater to the mentality of working behind the scenes and being patient. Take a game like splinter cell or Assassin's creed and dump it into a MMO. It just doesn't work against the other typical combat classes. A black ops agent like Sam Fisher isn't going to win in a straight up fight against your typical front line solider.
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
it seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes. But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically, Smuggler and Agent typically work behind the scenes and would require patience. but MMOs don't cater to the mentality of working behind the scenes and being patient. Take a game like splinter cell or Assassin's creed and dump it into a MMO. It just doesn't work against the other typical combat classes. A black ops agent like Sam Fisher isn't going to win in a straight up fight against your typical front line solider.
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
Why not both? You can have balanced combat classes and still have unique content for everyone.
Example: You are doing a raid and in the middle of the action some spacecops break in and start trying to arrest one of the people in your group for selling spice.
it seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes. But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically, Smuggler and Agent typically work behind the scenes and would require patience. but MMOs don't cater to the mentality of working behind the scenes and being patient. Take a game like splinter cell or Assassin's creed and dump it into a MMO. It just doesn't work against the other typical combat classes. A black ops agent like Sam Fisher isn't going to win in a straight up fight against your typical front line solider.
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
Why not both? You can have balanced combat classes and still have unique content for everyone.
Example: You are doing a raid and in the middle of the action some spacecops break in and start trying to arrest one of the people in your group for selling spice.
Guilds would ban spice selling for members lest it interrupt their raid
But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically,
Exactly, which is why it would be nice to have SOME group content catered to a specific class so the content would be catered to the groups strength. Like content for smugglers which would involve a lot of stealth, deception and covert action...as opposed to a mission just for Jedi Consulars which would have difficult diplomatic choices, and combat based on a keen understanding of force powers etc. etc.
It's a bit pie-in-the-sky I know, but anything to get out of the tank-healer-DPS-utility four-pack would be nice.
But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically,
Exactly, which is why it would be nice to have SOME group content catered to a specific class so the content would be catered to the groups strength. Like content for smugglers which would involve a lot of stealth, deception and covert action...as opposed to a mission just for Jedi Consulars which would have difficult diplomatic choices, and combat based on a keen understanding of force powers etc. etc.
It's a bit pie-in-the-sky I know, but anything to get out of the tank-healer-DPS-utility four-pack would be nice.
I see what you mean like here is a story line Idea i just took off the top of my head and it fits within mmo design.
Quest to pick something up and deliver it to the Hutt's, something goes wrong and now you owe them money.
Little while later you are going to the Starport to get off some world, BAM ambushed by some bounty hunter and either fight it out or get ko'ed and end up in a Hutt prison where you have to fight/sneak your way out of there.
But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically,
Exactly, which is why it would be nice to have SOME group content catered to a specific class so the content would be catered to the groups strength. Like content for smugglers which would involve a lot of stealth, deception and covert action...as opposed to a mission just for Jedi Consulars which would have difficult diplomatic choices, and combat based on a keen understanding of force powers etc. etc.
It's a bit pie-in-the-sky I know, but anything to get out of the tank-healer-DPS-utility four-pack would be nice.
It's always difficult to find that balance, though, between having content that's fun and accessible to all classes, and having content that effectively requires you to find a specific class to be able to achieve anything.
WoW has had this problem numerous times over the years (especially early on), where if you put something in that catered to a specific class (say, an instance with a locked door that could either be picked, or require killing someone to get the key), many groups would sit around trying whining to get a rogue instead of just running the longer version. The ideal case is where you have 4 different classes, and each class can achieve the same thing with roughly the same about of effort but doing it in different ways... but it's just difficult to create content and balance interesting classes in a way that accomplishes this.
I think Bioware is trying to have the class quests more focused on content that really caters to what the class is about, whereas the group content is more tailored to "we want to allow groups of very diverse mixes of classes to succeed approximately as well as each other)
WoW also had things like blacksmith keys and seaforium charges to get around the locked door problem, people just deemed the cost prohibitively high (in the case of Arcanite keys, which you needed to open things like doors in Dire Maul without a Rogue, killing a guard, or getting lucky.)
How low does the bar have to be is the bigger issue. I think there's a fine line between simply not having a silly "get around this" class mechanic, and making the toll too high without the class (as was the case in BRD, where without the key it was faster to wait in LFG for 20+ minutes for a Rogue.)
We should all be able to agree that, of nine classes, having only one be able to open locks is dumb. It was marginal utility at the time and it's gotten less useful as time has gone on, but still.
Fortunately the SWTOR team seems to have wholeheartedly embraced classes having multiple redundant utility abilities, so I doubt it'll be a big deal.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
it seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes. But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically, Smuggler and Agent typically work behind the scenes and would require patience. but MMOs don't cater to the mentality of working behind the scenes and being patient. Take a game like splinter cell or Assassin's creed and dump it into a MMO. It just doesn't work against the other typical combat classes. A black ops agent like Sam Fisher isn't going to win in a straight up fight against your typical front line solider.
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
I would be super pleased if the agent played like AssCreed. I totally dont expect it to, but that would be awesome.
it seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes. But the problem is classes like smuggler and agent aren't supposed to be about combat specifically, Smuggler and Agent typically work behind the scenes and would require patience. but MMOs don't cater to the mentality of working behind the scenes and being patient. Take a game like splinter cell or Assassin's creed and dump it into a MMO. It just doesn't work against the other typical combat classes. A black ops agent like Sam Fisher isn't going to win in a straight up fight against your typical front line solider.
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
VoodooV: It seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes.
Frugus: No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!
VoodooV: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!
Frugus: [anguished] No! No!
Single player missions, flashpoints, things that give some level of control to the player (and so on) usually provides a flavor about how you will manage to go through the obstacles that presented to you. Obstacles that, 99% of the time, involve killing NPCs. So yeah, it's all about combat, but part of me still wants to say that it's maybe a little more than that. "Combat Puzzle" would be a stretch but it's the closest term that I can come up with.
I think people are reading too much into the names of the classes, and then trying to shoehorn the gameplay that they think those classes should have.
It's an MMO, not Splinter Cell. For everyone person who wants to play the game that way, there's probably thousands more who just want the straight up MMO experience. Not that I'm disagreeing with the idea of that type of gameplay, but there are plenty of other games to get your fix of that stuff, games built specifically around those concepts. I think trying to jam in that type of gameplay in a system that otherwise generally isn't designed for that would just end up being, well, a crappy version of "whatever" stealth game.
And for the record, Han Solo did a lot more shooting and flying than smuggling in the movies, if I remember correctly.
I'm pretty sure han never actually smuggled anything in the movies, except maybe the random boxes you see him loading into the falcon at the end of new hope.
I guess technically he smuggled luke/obiwan most of the way to alderaan, but that in itself doesn't seem very smugglerish really
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'm pretty sure han never actually smuggled anything in the movies, except maybe the random boxes you see him loading into the falcon at the end of new hope.
I guess technically he smuggled luke/obiwan most of the way to alderaan, but that in itself doesn't seem very smugglerish really
That's because Han didn't spec into the Smuggler tree. He spec'd into the Snuggler tree. At least, that's what he was hoping with Leia...
He might actually be closer to an IA than a Smuggler... suave, charismatic, sneaking about trying to infiltrate stuff...
I'm pretty sure han never actually smuggled anything in the movies, except maybe the random boxes you see him loading into the falcon at the end of new hope.
I guess technically he smuggled luke/obiwan most of the way to alderaan, but that in itself doesn't seem very smugglerish really
I think those crates were literally loaded with Republic cash, as his reward for rescuing Leia.
So yeah, if being a smuggler in ToR is all about shooting troopers, kissing** princesses* and loading your spaceship with cash, count me in!
*or Twi'leks. I'm not picky.
** replace with "banging" were applicable
Posts
Not sure how up-to-date this is:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=374561
Looks like Republic Restriced are Miraluka and Mirialan. Empire restricted are Chiss, Rattataki and Pureblood.
And some that didn't make it into release:
http://www.askajedi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/discarded_swtor_classes.jpg
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i think the issue is the playable ones have these sunglasses on that look like what the blind will ware in earths furture in the back to the future movies or 2015.
which according to the movie in 4 years we have flying cars, 15 more jaws movies (14 if you count the straight to video jaws 5 made by itliaian rip off filmmakers which their movies can be only get here by bootleg) cubs to win the world series, another maimi MLB team in the AL to lose to the cubs in 2015 world series, and small pizzas that turn into a big pizza.
alyways i am rather bothered that there seem to be a lone Twi'lek in sith classes, i know balaince and all but i wish it was a chiss.
i think i be purblood SI with my cousin and Mirialan trooper with the PA guild. (becuase the race is a good blend of my rodian in SWG and my blood elf pally in wow, maybe give it a haircut like my undead mage from the pre tbc days. green skin, red hair and bringing sexy back to a race of warroir jesus freaks.
I want to do this in the game.
My first character when TOR comes out is going to be a cyborg character with fully cybernetic arms that walks around saying "I didn't ask for this."
Was this from VGChartz? That number is more like guess work on their part. I have a hard time finding any information on that site to be factual.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Why does that say "What a shame"?
Looks like I'll be going with just a plane ol' vanilla human for my trooper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09vVF-Hvykg For the Deus Ex fans out there.
That's pretty funny. Looks more like space Blade to me though. I mean space robot Blade.
Kinda hard being a spy when everybody knows what you are.
Which is why the Chiss don't make any sense either, or rattaki...
Something makes me think they haven't thought that part trough.
Not going to stop me from making my chiss agent.
I love the Chiss, but I didn't want to make a carbon copy of the dude in the Agent video. For the same reason, I didn't want to make a Pureblood Sith Inquisitor or Sith Warrior, but it looks like purebloods don't get to be anything except that. I don't know enough about the Rattaki to care about them one way or the other. There's just something weird about the Star Wars MMO obsession with twileks that turns me away from wanting to play a twilekk.
I think they said at one point that Mirulans make the best consulars...well that's great and all but why would you want a MMO where virtually every consular is a mirulan or a miraluka? It just seems like they're pigeonholing the races a bit too much.
Besides, just like people complaining that Smuggler doesn't really have much smuggling, does anyone really think Agent is really going to have much...spying?
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Part of the whole "MMO experience" is being able to immerse yourself more deeply in the world than a single-player game would ever allow. Part of that immersion, for me anyway, is going to be able to experience the things that make each class unique. If I'm playing a Smuggler, I want to do Smuggler type things. I want to smuggle stuff. I want secret compartments on my ship that I can cleverly hide illegal goods in and trick boarding parties. I want to make the kessel run in less than 12 parsecs.
Similarly, if I'm playing an Imperial Agent, I want to be the James Bond of Star Wars. I want to assassinate key republic figureheads. I want to steal encrypted files. I want to seduce my way to information.
If I'm playing a Trooper, I want to take part in squad battles, participate in the camaraderie and ribbing that is a part of being a soldier. If you've ever seen the episode titled "Rookies" in the Clone Wars cartoon, that's like my perfect newbie quest right there.
No matter what class I'm playing, there are just certain expectations I have for what I will be doing as that class, at least during quests that have specifically been designated as class quests. Sure, once I start getting more involved with the Republic/Empire questlines, a lot of that flavor will go away, but I think Bioware needs to make a concerted effort to make unique class experiences available at various stages of the game, including end-game.
I would LOVE to go on an end-game class quest which was heavily story based and focused on the core elements of what makes that class unique. I definitely don't want to see the class flavor and class quests disappear at mid level. They need to occasionally pepper these quests back in, just to make the player feel connected to who they are other than their faction affiliation.
I'll second that. I'd also applaud anything that provided some variety from a standard team structure. A class-specific instance for example, where four of a particular class solve the mission in ways that are unique to its class. Anything that can help break the -tank, heal, DPS, utility - chain gang would be really interesting.
However, RP might also be what some of you are looking for. Working with other role players you can often create stories, adventures that highlight your class. You can use dueling and other in-game elements to add combat and action to it. RP provides a great sense of exactly who your character is. It's why I always scream for user-generated content, because you can begin to create your own content that's specifically catered to the characters of your friends and yourself.
Still, at least we'll have group stealth:
http://torwars.com/2011/08/08/youve-been-smuggled-group-stealth/
I imagine that will change?
That's the problem with MMOs, everyone wants to do their own thing, while at the same time, be just as powerful as everyone else.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Remarkable Circumference also seems to no longer be accepting new members.
Why not both? You can have balanced combat classes and still have unique content for everyone.
Example: You are doing a raid and in the middle of the action some spacecops break in and start trying to arrest one of the people in your group for selling spice.
You can stealth your whole group. Not just your own player. EQ2 had this feature for one of their rogue-type classes.
Guilds would ban spice selling for members lest it interrupt their raid
Exactly, which is why it would be nice to have SOME group content catered to a specific class so the content would be catered to the groups strength. Like content for smugglers which would involve a lot of stealth, deception and covert action...as opposed to a mission just for Jedi Consulars which would have difficult diplomatic choices, and combat based on a keen understanding of force powers etc. etc.
It's a bit pie-in-the-sky I know, but anything to get out of the tank-healer-DPS-utility four-pack would be nice.
I see what you mean like here is a story line Idea i just took off the top of my head and it fits within mmo design.
Quest to pick something up and deliver it to the Hutt's, something goes wrong and now you owe them money.
Little while later you are going to the Starport to get off some world, BAM ambushed by some bounty hunter and either fight it out or get ko'ed and end up in a Hutt prison where you have to fight/sneak your way out of there.
Damn, that is awesome. It kind of goes against how I picture MMO groups, but I'd be happy to be surprised.
It's always difficult to find that balance, though, between having content that's fun and accessible to all classes, and having content that effectively requires you to find a specific class to be able to achieve anything.
WoW has had this problem numerous times over the years (especially early on), where if you put something in that catered to a specific class (say, an instance with a locked door that could either be picked, or require killing someone to get the key), many groups would sit around trying whining to get a rogue instead of just running the longer version. The ideal case is where you have 4 different classes, and each class can achieve the same thing with roughly the same about of effort but doing it in different ways... but it's just difficult to create content and balance interesting classes in a way that accomplishes this.
I think Bioware is trying to have the class quests more focused on content that really caters to what the class is about, whereas the group content is more tailored to "we want to allow groups of very diverse mixes of classes to succeed approximately as well as each other)
How low does the bar have to be is the bigger issue. I think there's a fine line between simply not having a silly "get around this" class mechanic, and making the toll too high without the class (as was the case in BRD, where without the key it was faster to wait in LFG for 20+ minutes for a Rogue.)
Fortunately the SWTOR team seems to have wholeheartedly embraced classes having multiple redundant utility abilities, so I doubt it'll be a big deal.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I would be super pleased if the agent played like AssCreed. I totally dont expect it to, but that would be awesome.
VoodooV: It seems like, in an MMO at least, different classes just mean different combat classes.
Frugus: No. No. That's not true. That's impossible!
VoodooV: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true!
Frugus: [anguished] No! No!
Single player missions, flashpoints, things that give some level of control to the player (and so on) usually provides a flavor about how you will manage to go through the obstacles that presented to you. Obstacles that, 99% of the time, involve killing NPCs. So yeah, it's all about combat, but part of me still wants to say that it's maybe a little more than that. "Combat Puzzle" would be a stretch but it's the closest term that I can come up with.
When it comes to PVP however...
It's an MMO, not Splinter Cell. For everyone person who wants to play the game that way, there's probably thousands more who just want the straight up MMO experience. Not that I'm disagreeing with the idea of that type of gameplay, but there are plenty of other games to get your fix of that stuff, games built specifically around those concepts. I think trying to jam in that type of gameplay in a system that otherwise generally isn't designed for that would just end up being, well, a crappy version of "whatever" stealth game.
And for the record, Han Solo did a lot more shooting and flying than smuggling in the movies, if I remember correctly.
I guess technically he smuggled luke/obiwan most of the way to alderaan, but that in itself doesn't seem very smugglerish really
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
That's because Han didn't spec into the Smuggler tree. He spec'd into the Snuggler tree. At least, that's what he was hoping with Leia...
He might actually be closer to an IA than a Smuggler... suave, charismatic, sneaking about trying to infiltrate stuff...
I think those crates were literally loaded with Republic cash, as his reward for rescuing Leia.
So yeah, if being a smuggler in ToR is all about shooting troopers, kissing** princesses* and loading your spaceship with cash, count me in!
*or Twi'leks. I'm not picky.
** replace with "banging" were applicable