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Getting out of the "Friend Zone"
A Stylish Hat
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello random internet people,
I've been hanging out with this girl for about 7 months as close friends. Our relationship started about a year ago, but when I first met her it was on a once-a-week basis and things began very slowly. The relationship has progressed from casual to being nearly inseparable.
I've always liked this girl from the moment I laid eyes on her. She's cute, she's funny, and as I found out very early in our friendship, she has a nerdy side which is undeniably awesome.
The problem is, when I first met her, she was kind of involved with another guy, and I got friend zoned before our own relationship ever really took off. Things never worked out between she and the other guy, and after only a few dates they broke it off. After they quit seeing each other, she and I really became close. I would say, from a time-spent perspective that I have moved into the number one position as the person who she talks with, hangs out with, and generally does the most stuff with. We regularly see each other 3-4 times a week, sometimes more than that on a good week. We talk, text, facebook, and skype on a daily basis.
We do all sorts of things together, including a lot of stuff that is very date-like. We've gone to museums together, we've gone out for icecream, we've been to movies and plays, we've hung out and played Mario Kart, and a lot of other stuff as well. The list of dates that weren't really dates is quite large.
I've talked to her before, on several occasions, and she knows that I like her. It isn't a communication issue. In fact, communication is one of the strongest strengths of our relationship. It is easy for me to be very honest with her, and she gives me the same honesty back. The only problem is, she is very honest in telling me that she doesn't see me as anything more than a good friend.
I was wondering if any of you fine folks have any advice on how a guy can get himself out of the dreaded "friend zone." I feel like I got screwed by when I met her. If I would've met her +/- 3 months either way, she might see me differently than she does now.
I've been hanging out with this girl for about 7 months as close friends. Our relationship started about a year ago, but when I first met her it was on a once-a-week basis and things began very slowly. The relationship has progressed from casual to being nearly inseparable.
I've always liked this girl from the moment I laid eyes on her. She's cute, she's funny, and as I found out very early in our friendship, she has a nerdy side which is undeniably awesome.
The problem is, when I first met her, she was kind of involved with another guy, and I got friend zoned before our own relationship ever really took off. Things never worked out between she and the other guy, and after only a few dates they broke it off. After they quit seeing each other, she and I really became close. I would say, from a time-spent perspective that I have moved into the number one position as the person who she talks with, hangs out with, and generally does the most stuff with. We regularly see each other 3-4 times a week, sometimes more than that on a good week. We talk, text, facebook, and skype on a daily basis.
We do all sorts of things together, including a lot of stuff that is very date-like. We've gone to museums together, we've gone out for icecream, we've been to movies and plays, we've hung out and played Mario Kart, and a lot of other stuff as well. The list of dates that weren't really dates is quite large.
I've talked to her before, on several occasions, and she knows that I like her. It isn't a communication issue. In fact, communication is one of the strongest strengths of our relationship. It is easy for me to be very honest with her, and she gives me the same honesty back. The only problem is, she is very honest in telling me that she doesn't see me as anything more than a good friend.
I was wondering if any of you fine folks have any advice on how a guy can get himself out of the dreaded "friend zone." I feel like I got screwed by when I met her. If I would've met her +/- 3 months either way, she might see me differently than she does now.
A Stylish Hat on
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And we do a lot of other stuff too which isn't exclusively just she and I. She brought me into her whole circle of friends, and I spend a lot of time with "the group" as well.
But she is comfortable with hanging out with me, just the two of us, despite our feelings being different, and that's because I don't press her and I don't push it.
Just like in every other situation in which you ask a girl out and she says no, you should not make a huge deal about it and move on. Other fish in the sea, etc. Don't be a jerk, she likely doesn't feel good about having to shoot you down each time particularly if you guys are good friends.
Be friends.
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
Keep at it and eventually something may happen. Some people tend to realize that the "dating thing" eventually turns into a long term relationship. And the person you spend the rest of your life should be your very best friend. Either she'll eventually realize this, or you both will grow apart and find that it was best you never dated to begin with.
Don't push it at all. If you do, she's going to reconsider her friendship with you which can then hurt your chances of ever dating her.
I'm not suggesting you completely cut all contact and start blowing her off, giving the cold shoulder, or being rude in any way. But ultimately the current relationship you guys have is not healthy (since you both want different things out of it). Gradually make time for other people, become someone she doesn't already know like a "brother".
Just my advice. Not guaranteed, but I have had situations where romance developed with people I was "really close" with from the past, after enough time and life got between us.
Yes, I'm sorry. Thanks for clearing that up. Don't "keep at it" by letting her know you want more. It could make her uncomfortable.
You're not in the friend zone; you're just a good friend. She likes you, but she doesn't want to kiss you or have sex with you. She appreciates your company but does not find you attractive as a sexual partner.
So, to go back to your original question, how do you change that? How do you make yourself attractive to her sexually? Well, you really can't. You've talked about it and she said "Sorry, I'm not attracted to you sexually." Your only option is to accept it and remain her friend, or refuse to accept it along with her friendship.
Esh's other point is true that you shouldn't hold your breath. The girl is highly unlikely to change her mind while you remain single. Basically in every situation where the friend changes her mind, it's only when you have a new girlfriend and show how happy you are that they regret missing the boat. Nothing you can say or do will tell them "hey, boat right here? See? it's a nice boat!"
It seems like whenever I need a break to clear my head, she is the one who pulls me back in. The dynamic is quite strange between us, and there's a lot more history besides what I've shared, which maybe I should get into for clarity's sake. Gonna spoiler tag this since it isn't really anything more than a bit of exposition.
But this girl is the queen of sending mixed signals. Its hard to know her true intentions when she says "just friends" with her words, but her actions say something different. She often will poke me, tickle me, try to trip me, steal my flip-flops, and other types of mischievous flirting. The second time I asked her out, I honestly thought I had a chance with her. And when she still shot me down a second time, I asked her for clarification on her actions. Like I said, our communication is generally very good. I asked her why she acts that way around me if she isn't interested and her reply was that she's lonely and likes the attention. At that point we agreed that we would both try to stop that and keep things more on a "friends" level.
Our third talk actually happened just last night. I was needing some new shoes, and I texted her early in the day yesterday and asked her if she wanted to go with me to help me find some shoes. She said sure and asked if one of her friends could tag along. I said it was fine, and left it at that. After she and I both got off work in the evening, I called her and asked her when she would like me to come get her and go shopping and she freaked out on me out of nowhere. She was like "I don't want this to mean anything more than friends" to which I replied "Its doesn't. I need some new shoes and I wanted a girl to come help me pick some out."
Eventually she agreed to go with me, and no friend came along, so it was just the two of us. It was a bizarre trip though, because after the freak-out on the phone, she was really flirty with me at the shopping center. I didn't reciprocate any of it back, but her behavior in general was just very odd last night, and I called her out on it. That was our third relationship talk. The third was actually me reminding her of how we agreed we would act.
So that's a bit more of the nitty gritty history. After last night, I was actually thinking about proposing a break between she and I for a few weeks. Give her a chance to re-evaluate things, and give me a chance to relax and get my head straightened out, because with the whole mixed signals thing really gets to me sometimes.
You are reading way too much into things. Just because a girl does things like that, that does not mean she's flirting with you. Trust me. 95% of my friends are female and it's pretty par for course. It's just a toned down version of how male friends will roughhouse.
She "breaks the silence" because you're a very good friend of hers, and she wants to hang out. It doesn't mean anything else. She's told you "No" three times now. What else can she do to convince you?
Start expanding your friend circle, get out and do things with ladies that aren't her, and be very glad that no one has verbally castrated you for using the terrible phrase "Friend Zone"
Indeed. I would like to second what Evanismyname said. Putting some distance between you doesn't mean you have to cut off comunications or even worse "give us a break". Find something else to do, get in contact with your old friends/make new friends, get another hobby, something that when she eventually calls you again you can say "Oh sorry, I'm doing X today, maybe some other time". Hanging out with her and her circle of friends won't help you get over her.
I was at the same situation you currently are some years ago, didn't go too well. I think that if I had spent less time thinking about her "mixed signals" and listening to her "I LOVE YOU AS A FRIEND" we might still be friends.
Now we barely say hello on mutual friends birthdays.
This has two benefits. A. You may find yourself moving on and the current issue is then solved right there, and B. Even if the dating does not become something major it will your friend see you in a different light which could spark some interest on her part.
Even if you're not gonna start dating someone else then at least make yourself unavailable once in a while.
It will take some time, but at some point you're going to have to accept just being her friend. Cutting her "off" because you can't handle things and then accepting her call when she misses you is kind of - not so nice. Just because SHE is the one to initiate communication again means she seems to value you being in her life more than you do her. If you can't handle being her friend without hopping that some day she'll come to her sense, just tell her you can't be friends anymore. Ironically you owe her the same amount of courtesy that a real BF/GF couple would expect.
:^:
Seriously. Go check out the internet dating threads in the other forums here if you need help with that. Getting all wrapped up over a girl who doesn't want more than friendship for you is simply bad for your mental and emotional health, and you can't convince someone to be attracted to you who is not.
Go find someone who is attracted to you.
There is a good chance (since we know nothing about you) that you aren't attractive to her for a variety of reasons you can change. Maybe she thinks your personality is perfect but you're fat and unkempt? Go to the gym, get in shape - you might end up shocked at how she (and other women) will react. Perhaps you (and this seems like it) are way too nice and available? I mean this not as in you should be a dick, just that women often prefer an assertive, "dominant" male.
Just saying that telling him it's impossible for this girl to like him isn't exactly fair. It's unhealthy to continue to pursue her if you don't change anything about yourself or any of the things that are likely causing her (and other women, possibly) to not find him attractive, but doesn't mean he can't work on it.
While it is not entirely impossible, the fact that she has told him no on three different occasions over a large period of time has a lot to do with the advice we're giving. The OP shouldn't be required to change who he is in general, the girl has said very clearly she does not want to date him and it isn't fair to the OP to give him false expectations like "Well, maybe she'll like you if you were skinnier" or anything like that. You're making assumptions, and it's unhealthy to pursue a romantic relationship with anyone that tells you no repeatedly. Also, self improvement should be done for yourself, not for some specific girl who isn't interested.
What you should do is find someone who is interested in dating you. You should also stop entertaining romantic thoughts about her. If necessary tell her this and tell her you need space and that you will contact her. Pulling away without telling her this will just mean she will think that you have been busy and she will just contact you.
Satans..... hints.....
I agree, I'm making assumptions because I know nothing about him. He could be completely in shape, physically active, attractive, and have the perfect combination of kindness, vulnerability, and assertiveness that every female dreams of. I also agree that improving himself should be done for himself, not for this specific girl.
But that's all I'm saying. If he really wants this girl - or any girl - he always has the option to improve himself (if there are obvious things to improve) if he believes that gaining a relationship is something that would make him happier, and thus worth the effort required. The idea that he shouldn't have to "change himself" for the girl of his dreams isn't particularly true, really. If the girl of his dreams if a physically fit, beautiful female - and he is overweight and unkempt, the chances of him ever landing a girl like that are nearly zero. Sometimes you do have to change the things about yourself that you can change without changing "who are you." Like your appearance. I just don't think telling him there is no chance is correct, since *maybe* there is if there are specific things he is doing to make himself particularly unattractive sexually.
I have attractive male friends who are great guys who I am not interested in dating. She's told you that she's not interested on multiple occasions - you should accept the fact that she's not into you as anything more than a friend, and accept the fact that in all likelyhood, that won't change. Find somebody who IS interested in dating you - no coercion required.
She might be sending "mixed signals" but at the end of this she'll always play the victim and not own up to what she's sending. They are just "signals" after all and in this situation the guys are always ended up with the blame or awkwardness and fault. A rule of thumb: Girls always send mixed signals and the best thing a men should do is to ignore them. They mean nothing.
Just distancing yourself from her will hopeful let you think clearly without all the hormones messing with your head.. and from then on you can make a true assessment about the situation.
I understand that a geeky girl that's even half-decent looking is extremely hard to find (probably once in a life time) and that you are probably hating all the advice that was given because they are so discouraging. Even if you do see some sense in what we are saying your brain in between your groin says otherwise, or even if you do take a stance everything melts away as soon as she shows her face. Well that's the difference between people who's still in puppy love vs those that got their head messed with at least once and got their heart broken. Even if you do see signs of interest you have to keep your cool and not wear your heart on your sleeve or you'll have your broken as well... or worst.
I won't advise cutting off all tides but you have to detach emotionally from her and treat her like a friend. If you do need help just high-light all the negative things about her. Watching "500 days of summer" helps, it taught me a lot about relationship and I recommend it to anyone that has relationship problems.
Peace
The only type of friendship that can survive an "I love you so much that I can't hang out with you" is a ridiculously strong friendship, and even then its not a guarantee.
It's unhealthy to focus on someone who doesn't want you. Self improvement is a fine thing to do, but approaching it in the way you've described can lead to expectations that if someone just changes X, Y and Z, their platonic friend will suddenly want to fuck their brains out. It's just not a good mental approach.
1. Just accept that you are friends, she's just a bit of a flirt and continue your current friendship; or
2. Not accept this flirty thing she's doing (its obviously got you scratching your head) and learn to say "no" to the girl - if you are not happy with the way you are being treated (not saying she is treating you badly, but rather her behavior is confusing you), remind her again and if she keeps "sending mixed signals" (in your opinion), then do other things with other people and tell her you are busy the next time she breaks the silence - don't be rude, but seriously this is clearly occupying your attention and you know what? It's hard to meet girls when you're caught up on one that you have no chance with. She'll either change her turn or you will realise that her flirtation is not such a big deal after giving yourself some space.
If your goal is a relationship with someone (and I'm drawing a strong inference that if you want to date her, then conceivably you'd like to date generally as well if you meet the right person), then your interaction with her may not be helping you.
Regardless you made your intentions clear and got rebuffed, so your options are to 1) let it go and continue your friendship or 2) cut off contact. #2 sounds cold but if you can't get over your own romantic feelings, it's probably the best option for both of you (at least temporarily.)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It screams of obligation to me. I'm not saying this to be mean, and I am really sorry if it seems that I am.
I really strongly suggest putting on the brakes - slow it down, see her if she asks you (and you don't have anything else planned, and you actually want to do the activity in question), start hanging out with other people, preferably girls (as friends or courting, bonus points for the latter) and guys (as friends, and if you want court them too). The relationship isn't healthy and isn't working - everything everyone else is saying is right - there's more than one fish in the sea and the only way to change things is to change things.
EDIT: Plus, you are lying to her.
When you ask her to help buy you shoes, it isn't because you just want a female opinion, it's because (also?) you want to spend time with her and this is the sort of thing that she will consent to. Deception is not going to win her over, and it's not a stable basis for a relationship.
Not to put too fine a point on it... are you, uh... that is to say, might there more that you could do to improve your attractiveness?
See, she likes you. But bluntly, she doesn't want to go to bed with you. Lose some weight, put on a little muscle, get some sun, maybe get a few nice clothes and a haircut. Could be that'll help. If not, well, it's not like it will be wasted effort. I'm not saying that you need to turn into a cologne-drenched gym-rat, I'm just saying that if this girl is so attractive to you, then she deserves your best effort to be attractive to her.
You aren't in a friend zone. You are her friend. You need to accept that and stop reading romantic interest into every day friendly behavior. When you met her also has nothing to do with the fact that you are friends with her and not dating her.
It is possible that you guys could develop a romantic relationship in the future, but it would only be because one or both of you matured into a different person that led to both of you being attracted to each other. It isn't something you can force. So live your life and date other women that are romantically interested in you.
Also, even in the slim possibility that she does agree to give it a try, it won't be satisfying. You will always wonder if she REALLY loves you, or if she is just along for the ride. You'll continuously be second guessing everything when you have disagreements, wondering when your house of cards is about to collapse.
Don't make this mistake man. Give up on dating this girl ever, for both of your sake. Find someone who is actually interested in dating you. And, I will add my voice to the fact that the friend zone is a complete myth. It would have made no difference whatsoever 'when' you met this girl. You aren't her type. Don't try to force it any more. Move on.
You're attracted to her (whatever reason), she isnt attracted to you (whatever reason).
She's already said she likes you as a friend.
The error in your methods is that you didn't stop hanging out with her at this point - don't get me wrong, its cool to be friends, but its obvious from your posting that just being friends is unacceptable to you. You want her too much.
Thats what you should have said and put your foot down. You dont have to be mean about it, just honest.
Something as simple as, "Look, you're really cool, and I would love to spend more time with you, but I'm chasing you and I want to be honest about it. If you can handle that I'm attracted to you and that I'm pursuing you with romantic intent, then we can totally hang out. Otherwise, its best if I find someone who is into me - because this situation is just going to wind up suuuuuppper creepy/sad."
and you don't want to be that. It's not fair to her or to you.