I think iNcontrol rushed DT's that did nothing and from there it's just a matter of Destiny not screwing up.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I don't understand why he didn't take a third
if you're gonna play a long game play a long game. maybe he's just trying to throw off destiny's rhythm so he can beat him with another 6 gate next game.
a small number of heavy units dealing 90% of the DPS of your army is sort of the "thing" that Protoss has. Something that is perfectly exploited at all stages of the mid and lategame by Infestors.
Totally true, at the moment. Maybe there are ways to change that, though... maybe high templars (feedback) or phoenixes (graviton) can neutralize the infestors ahead of engagements (kind of like ghosts in PvT). Or maybe using more gateway heavy armies with a bigger focus on upgrades rather than key big-units as the power behind them (maybe warp prisms for harass?). I don't know, Protoss will just have to get a little creative to see what we can come up with...
a small number of heavy units dealing 90% of the DPS of your army is sort of the "thing" that Protoss has. Something that is perfectly exploited at all stages of the mid and lategame by Infestors.
Totally true, at the moment. Maybe there are ways to change that, though... maybe high templars (feedback) or phoenixes (graviton) can neutralize the infestors ahead of engagements (kind of like ghosts in PvT). Or maybe using more gateway heavy armies with a bigger focus on upgrades rather than key big-units as the power behind them (maybe warp prisms for harass?). I don't know, Protoss will just have to get a little creative to see what we can come up with...
Chargelot templar archon is the best response to mass infestor play right now. The problem is that Incontrol is getting outmacro'd and outmicro'd at every stage of the game.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
see the problem is that infestors are ALSO good against large masses of units due to fungals
so you are screwed if you consolidate your firepower into a few big units like immortals, archons, colossus, or templar, and you're screwed if you diversify it into your army by going for more gateway units.
Of course its not quite that cut and dry but thats the basis of it.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
...why would you counterattack all the way across the map with infestors out. he's gonna lose everything
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
storms suck against roaches and I don't know why people insist that it doesn't.
infestor/ling is dealt with by templar archon chargelot, but infestor/roach needs blink/HT/immortal/archon, and a zerg can transition into infestor roach much more quickly than a protoss can get up a force of immortals and stalkers.
see the problem is that infestors are ALSO good against large masses of units due to fungals
so you are screwed if you consolidate your firepower into a few big units like immortals, archons, colossus, or templar, and you're screwed if you diversify it into your army by going for more gateway units.
Of course its not quite that cut and dry but thats the basis of it.
Yeah, they are good at that too. That's why I tried to add an "edge" into each of those ideas - the first one, good control with HTs or Phoenix might neutralize the infestor threat, making it easier for whatever your comp is to eat up their army. The second, if you can get better ups, maybe your units can survive the fungals well enough to still take them out - especially if you're abusing mobility with warp ins and warp prisms. On paper, infestor comps are invincible because infestor is "good against everything", but if the Zerg is investing that much gas into that unit, maybe we can edge out an advantage in upgrades or units that can neutralize their advantage with the infestor. I'm not saying that this is the answer! But I haven't seen it tried and mayyybe it could work? No harm in trying to brainstorm some ideas about how to approach the match differently to beat that comp, right?
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited August 2011
fungal is not affected by upgrades.
edit: let me clarify i understand your point, just pointing out that.
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Does it bother anyone else when casters say "food differential" when what they mean is "food difference?" Unless they're literally talking about the rate of change of the slope of the food of the players.
It's a pet peeve.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
that doesn't bother me, but i'm sure if i were a math major it would bother me a heap. i can see how that would be so annoying.
basically anytime casters use words that are not correct words it annoys me.
Basically anytime most casters talk it annoys me. Most of them just don't understand the game at a high enough level for me to enjoy listening to them. Also, almost every caster has the bad habit of overusing certain words and phrases that really starts to get annoying over time. Basically what I'm saying is that I should be a caster.
Yeah, but the damage from units while they're immobile is affected... it might not be enough. I actually kind of like the phoenix idea best out of the ones I came up with. Early air play (MC style) forces hydras which delays infestors. This makes storm or colossus more effective against the army and trying to keep just enough phoenix to lift all the infestors (and take some hits from hydras) is kind of like the viking counts in PvT. I think I'll try to work on my phoenix micro to at least see if I can make it work at my level...
Basically anytime most casters talk it annoys me. Most of them just don't understand the game at a high enough level for me to enjoy listening to them. Also, almost every caster has the bad habit of overusing certain words and phrases that really starts to get annoying over time. Basically what I'm saying is that I should be a caster.
Yeah, but the damage from units while they're immobile is affected... it might not be enough. I actually kind of like the phoenix idea best out of the ones I came up with. Early air play (MC style) forces hydras which delays infestors. This makes storm or colossus more effective against the army and trying to keep just enough phoenix to lift all the infestors (and take some hits from hydras) is kind of like the viking counts in PvT. I think I'll try to work on my phoenix micro to at least see if I can make it work at my level...
Air play kind of just forces a handful of spores until he has a big enough infestor crew to fungalfestor your airforce to death almost for free.
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I'm trying to understand why Incontrol would try to play a macro game, then suddenly push out at like 120-140 supply and let his army get crushed. Protoss is supposed to be defensive! Get to 200/200, get upgrades, get templar and learn to feedback!
I'll just re-iterate my sentiment from before, chain fungals are OP. Change the spell or introduce diminishing returns for either the stun or the damage.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
It's only OP if you don't use the units that counter the Infestors.
Zerg have to deal with forcefields. At least fungals don't displace your entire army. Forcefields cutting off ramps? Yeeaaah. Or just cutting an army in half. Ugh, I hate forcefields.
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did not hear it
EDIT: DESTINY THAT WAS SO SEXY
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if you're gonna play a long game play a long game. maybe he's just trying to throw off destiny's rhythm so he can beat him with another 6 gate next game.
Collosus play is really, really bad against infestors. Don't do it.
herpderp my bad I guess. In platinum, a-moving lots of colossus works against everything 8-).
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8-)
is that...a nexus? oh incontrol
edit: maybe I expected a 4-gate? idk why, I don't think anyone reads my posts but this was a good one to ignore
Totally true, at the moment. Maybe there are ways to change that, though... maybe high templars (feedback) or phoenixes (graviton) can neutralize the infestors ahead of engagements (kind of like ghosts in PvT). Or maybe using more gateway heavy armies with a bigger focus on upgrades rather than key big-units as the power behind them (maybe warp prisms for harass?). I don't know, Protoss will just have to get a little creative to see what we can come up with...
Chargelot templar archon is the best response to mass infestor play right now. The problem is that Incontrol is getting outmacro'd and outmicro'd at every stage of the game.
so you are screwed if you consolidate your firepower into a few big units like immortals, archons, colossus, or templar, and you're screwed if you diversify it into your army by going for more gateway units.
Of course its not quite that cut and dry but thats the basis of it.
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you want them fungalled in range of the spines but not fungalled next to the spines.
infestor/ling is dealt with by templar archon chargelot, but infestor/roach needs blink/HT/immortal/archon, and a zerg can transition into infestor roach much more quickly than a protoss can get up a force of immortals and stalkers.
Yeah, they are good at that too. That's why I tried to add an "edge" into each of those ideas - the first one, good control with HTs or Phoenix might neutralize the infestor threat, making it easier for whatever your comp is to eat up their army. The second, if you can get better ups, maybe your units can survive the fungals well enough to still take them out - especially if you're abusing mobility with warp ins and warp prisms. On paper, infestor comps are invincible because infestor is "good against everything", but if the Zerg is investing that much gas into that unit, maybe we can edge out an advantage in upgrades or units that can neutralize their advantage with the infestor. I'm not saying that this is the answer! But I haven't seen it tried and mayyybe it could work? No harm in trying to brainstorm some ideas about how to approach the match differently to beat that comp, right?
edit: let me clarify i understand your point, just pointing out that.
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It's a pet peeve.
basically anytime casters use words that are not correct words it annoys me.
half of the time casters are just throwing in words that don't even mean what they are using them for.
Do it!
This is my comic book origin story.
Air play kind of just forces a handful of spores until he has a big enough infestor crew to fungalfestor your airforce to death almost for free.
What stream are we watching? I just got in.
Also, I've had 3 ZvPs go exactly like this.
150/200 roaches and infestors. Build a spire
200/200 roaches infestors. Huge battle. Protoss edges out a victory. Build 50 mutalisks.
Base trade, win. I have a replay where that exact thing just happened.