If anyone can take over as Captain America, it's Frank Castle. He's as much for the American Dream as Cap, after all. The only real difference is that Frank has no faith in the current order of things. Oh, and Frank kills people.
That said, this whole storyline seems to be a bit of a train-wreck. I mean, Captain America dropping the whole 'ideals' thing in favour of false security and Myspace. Yeah, right.
I am rather hoping for another Punisher-Hulk team-up, though...
I saw just that- a bigger, more x-treme captain america come up, but have him never question the SHRA. Because after all, Iron man wouldn't make a new cap without being sure it would pay off for him in the end. Or if he does, perhaps a chance run in with a supervillain kills him, and loyal shield agent #2 steps up...
Theme demands that the government-created Cap clash with whatever current character tries to take up the mantle of Cap, literally fighting to determine the true Spirit of America.
Of course, that only works if it's someone who believes in Cap's ideals that tries to take the mantle.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2007
Remember how that one person was talking about how they were working on saving Cap? I bet there is a cover-up, and they release a fake, lap-dog cap. Then they can act like the old cap never died.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Oh, there will be Frank Castle wearing the outfit, but no one is going to see him as Captain America. Hell, I bet we'll see more than a few heroes - e.g. Spider-Man - fighting Frank over it.
No one is going to be a "real" Captain America.
From an in-story standpoint, Iron Man is by no means stupid enough to think people won't see it as an obvious ploy. The 50-State Initiative doesn't need USAgent v.2.0 on its list. That's what it'd be, after all: they'd take a hyper-loyal soldier who believes in SHRA, etc. and all he'd be is another USAgent. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have sent USAgent to Canada.
From an editorial standpoint, it's just too obvious. Moreover, it would detract from whatever return that will inevitably occur in 3-12 months. If Rogers returns, having him have to take it from some faux-Cap would just seem lame. Either the faux-Cap would just surrender (which is somehow just irritating) or there'd be a stupid fight where Rogers would inevitably win despite being weaker "on-paper".
I think we'll see Stark trying to live up to the death of his close friend - a man who helped him build the Avengers - and that will be Rogers' legacy. It's far more poignant for Stark to be trying to show that this wasn't just a waste. In the same way that he turned Stamford into the 50-State Initiative and SHRA in order to preserve the existence of heroes, he'll turn Rogers' death into a moral focus for those programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have Stark in a black armband for awhile, actually. Hell, him wearing a black armor would be an oddly disturbing counterpart to Spider-Man's black suit, were it not for the problems it'd cause by making people confuse Iron Man and War Machine.
It's actually a steel alloy/vibranium mix with an unknown catalyst thrown in for good measure. Adamantium didn't pop up until later when scientists attempted to recreate the alloy Cap's shield is made of.
Since when did defense contractors throw away formulas and methods of production on the stuff they make? Why didn't they make a ton of Captain America shields? Or do what would have made more sense, make a full suit of armor out of the stuff. If Cap was essentially an armoured knight rather than a dude with a shield it would make so much more sense.
Nope, you're thinking of the Super Soldier Serum. He fell asleep during the process and whilst he slept an unknown contaminant/catalyst entered the mixture. When he tried to replicate it later, he ended up with adamantium instead, so I guess he wasn't too put out.
You know, with all the damn time traveling that people in the Marvel Universe get up to, you'd think some of them would try going back in time and solving these mysteries.
How do you make something without knowing how to make it?
While the specific answer has been provided, there is a more general point here: if your process isn't fully understood, you may be unable at a conceptual level to determine where the catalyst entered the system.
Consider early Man's ingestion of plants growing around him. Some made him sick, some didn't. He wasn't clever enough to approach this systematically - e.g. eating one, waiting a while, etc. - so it took awhile (presumably) for him to catch on to which plant was truly edible, much less nutritious.
In a more modern context, look at the discovery of Radium. The effects of Radium - at least some - were being documented, but all the while an unknown effect (cancer) wasn't being detected. Even the first radiation-induced deaths came later, and it still took time to realize that radiation was the killer, much less to figure out how radiation was having its deadly effect.
I would love to see a new gov created supersoldier, either with a bigger/better super soldier syrum responsible for his powers or, better yet imho, nanobot tech that lets him do all sorts of things. Naturally he'd work for Ironman until somebody or something convinces him to break away and take up the shield of the fallen Cap. It's a lame and over used origin story but heck, its a comic book ya know?
?
Yeah I know they are UN soliders, but close enough.[/spoilers]
You know, with all the damn time traveling that people in the Marvel Universe get up to, you'd think some of them would try going back in time and solving these mysteries.
They do. In Marvel, time-travel creates branching universes. That's why Immortus isn't a future-version of Kang the Conqueror anymore. This means that only members of the child-future would have the different outcome, and none of them would be aware of the changes.
Thus, there's a version of 616 (with some other arbitrary number ID) where someone went back and conclusively ID'd Yeshuah ben Josef, a young man in Nazareth. The mere presence of the observer changed the timeline somehow, and thus when he traveled back to the future it wasn't 616 anymore but 615 or 617 or whatever. You can never go home again, as it were, unless you can aim through universes.
Of course, you're getting into the pragmatic effects of superpowers and super-tech again, which as we know is a whole rat's-nest of problems.
Actually, the only contrary instances I'm aware of are 1602's pocket universe (which was going to be destroyed after Rogers was sent back to the future until the Watcher kept it safe) and Iron-Lad. Iron-Lad, coincidentally, was a teenage Kang and for some reason instead of creating a branching future it actually altered Kang's past. This was never explained.
Yeah, I just figure that someone would travel to a parallel dimension that's fairly similar to 616, then travel back in time. I mean, who gives a shit about creating parallel universes of 617 if you can always find your way back to 616?
Do not click unless you want to see another spoiler (well, "potential" spoiler as Marvel is good with releasing fake, red-herring images.)
If that happens, I will walk into my local Nerd Store, pick it up, start screaming, and promptly shit myself with joy. I will never wash those undies again. As far as people taking the whole "Cap dying/giving up the Anti-Reg fight" thing hard goes, how about
Spidey putting the black suit on? Haven't seen that since Venom. Think between Cap giving up and whatever's happening to Aunt May, Peter's gonna flip shit.
Also. I think when Penance eventually takes off that stupid fucking outfit, it will be at the hands of....Ghost Rider.
Now hear me out.
After having needing some power through whatever shitty "I need pain" mechanism he has, he is in a situation in which the Ghost Rider is around due to Danny Way's shitty writing. Now, he asks for GR to give him the Penance Stare and he realizes he's not responsible for Stamford, so much as he's responsible for the death of the New Warriors. Takes outfit off, eats chili with Nova, and everyone gets a blowjob. The end.
Also. I think when Penance eventually takes off that stupid fucking outfit, it will be at the hands of....Ghost Rider.
Now hear me out.
After having needing some power through whatever shitty "I need pain" mechanism he has, he is in a situation in which the Ghost Rider is around due to Danny Way's shitty writing. Now, he asks for GR to give him the Penance Stare and he realizes he's not responsible for Stamford, so much as he's responsible for the death of the New Warriors. Takes outfit off, eats chili with Nova, and everyone gets a blowjob. The end.
I don't care if he takes the suit off or not. I just wanna see Nova kick his ass and call him a pussy. Seriously, even if he finds a way to bring Cap back to life and reprogram Tony's brain to not be a dick, i still wouldn't like what he's become.
Diablo Fett on
0
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Also. I think when Penance eventually takes off that stupid fucking outfit, it will be at the hands of....Ghost Rider.
Now hear me out.
After having needing some power through whatever shitty "I need pain" mechanism he has, he is in a situation in which the Ghost Rider is around due to Danny Way's shitty writing. Now, he asks for GR to give him the Penance Stare and he realizes he's not responsible for Stamford, so much as he's responsible for the death of the New Warriors. Takes outfit off, eats chili with Nova, and everyone gets a blowjob. The end.
I think we may have our selves a new Captain America.
Well they were setting it up in Civil War #7...
The Punisher doesn't need a fucking shield.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Fuck Iron Man. As much as I love Punisher, and Cap, I really want to see what's gonna happen with Spidey, especially since
Aunt May got shot at the end of the last issue.
Spidey is one of the ones affected the most by Registration, he was the first to take off his mask. And on national TV, too. I think that after realizing he was fighting back, when his leader gave up (pussy), it was pointless, and combined with the spoiler, we're gonna have some spider-rage going on.
So I've been out of comic books since I was like 12 so what would one purchase if one would want to pick up the 'Civil War' series in a combo book(or books)? Also is there a complete list somewhere of the 'Civil War' comics? Google has failed me.
* Blade (vol. 3) #5
* Iron Man/Captain America Special (one-shot)
* Ghost Rider (vol. 4) #8 "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Illinois"
* Moon Knight (vol. 4) #7-8, 10: "Midnight Sun"
* Winter Soldier: Winter Kills (one-shot)
* Wolverine #48
Collected Reprints
* Amazing Spider-Man: Decisions (Collects Amazing Spider-Man 529-532)
* Thunderbolts: Swimming with Sharks (Collects Thunderbolts 103-105)
* Black Panther: War Crimes (Collects Black Panther 21-23)
* Civil War: Casualties of War: (Collects Winter Soldier: Winter Kills, Iron Man/Captain America Special, and Civil War: War Crimes)
Iron Man: Hypervelocity is turning into a pretty nice sci-fi story right now.
So true. I started reading this one on a whim and it's turned out to be pretty cool. Between this and Invincible Iron Man, I'm finding it hard to continue to actively hate Tony. I've sorta settled on stern disapproval.
Powersurge, the trades have started hitting the stores and, by May or June, most of the CW should be collected in TPB or hardcover. I'd recommend waiting for the trades. Trying to actually collect the entire series at this late stage would be an exercise in frustration.
Posts
That said, this whole storyline seems to be a bit of a train-wreck. I mean, Captain America dropping the whole 'ideals' thing in favour of false security and Myspace. Yeah, right.
I am rather hoping for another Punisher-Hulk team-up, though...
Of course, that only works if it's someone who believes in Cap's ideals that tries to take the mantle.
TOFURKEY NOT FUNNY!
When the fuck does that shit ever start coming out again?
Situation excellent. I am attacking.
- General Ferdinand Foch
Colbert is such a geek.
I mean that it the best possible way.
I half-expected him to appear in a full Captain America costume.
No Captain America.
Oh, there will be Frank Castle wearing the outfit, but no one is going to see him as Captain America. Hell, I bet we'll see more than a few heroes - e.g. Spider-Man - fighting Frank over it.
No one is going to be a "real" Captain America.
From an in-story standpoint, Iron Man is by no means stupid enough to think people won't see it as an obvious ploy. The 50-State Initiative doesn't need USAgent v.2.0 on its list. That's what it'd be, after all: they'd take a hyper-loyal soldier who believes in SHRA, etc. and all he'd be is another USAgent. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have sent USAgent to Canada.
From an editorial standpoint, it's just too obvious. Moreover, it would detract from whatever return that will inevitably occur in 3-12 months. If Rogers returns, having him have to take it from some faux-Cap would just seem lame. Either the faux-Cap would just surrender (which is somehow just irritating) or there'd be a stupid fight where Rogers would inevitably win despite being weaker "on-paper".
I think we'll see Stark trying to live up to the death of his close friend - a man who helped him build the Avengers - and that will be Rogers' legacy. It's far more poignant for Stark to be trying to show that this wasn't just a waste. In the same way that he turned Stamford into the 50-State Initiative and SHRA in order to preserve the existence of heroes, he'll turn Rogers' death into a moral focus for those programs.
I wouldn't be surprised if they have Stark in a black armband for awhile, actually. Hell, him wearing a black armor would be an oddly disturbing counterpart to Spider-Man's black suit, were it not for the problems it'd cause by making people confuse Iron Man and War Machine.
NO
IT'S NEVER AN ADAMANTIUM/VIBRANIUM ALLOY
NEVER
It's actually a steel alloy/vibranium mix with an unknown catalyst thrown in for good measure. Adamantium didn't pop up until later when scientists attempted to recreate the alloy Cap's shield is made of.
Funnily enough, these words are also the reason why Cap's shield could not be mass-produced.
The person who made it was killed, and only he knew the forumula.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
While the specific answer has been provided, there is a more general point here: if your process isn't fully understood, you may be unable at a conceptual level to determine where the catalyst entered the system.
Consider early Man's ingestion of plants growing around him. Some made him sick, some didn't. He wasn't clever enough to approach this systematically - e.g. eating one, waiting a while, etc. - so it took awhile (presumably) for him to catch on to which plant was truly edible, much less nutritious.
In a more modern context, look at the discovery of Radium. The effects of Radium - at least some - were being documented, but all the while an unknown effect (cancer) wasn't being detected. Even the first radiation-induced deaths came later, and it still took time to realize that radiation was the killer, much less to figure out how radiation was having its deadly effect.
?
They do. In Marvel, time-travel creates branching universes. That's why Immortus isn't a future-version of Kang the Conqueror anymore. This means that only members of the child-future would have the different outcome, and none of them would be aware of the changes.
Thus, there's a version of 616 (with some other arbitrary number ID) where someone went back and conclusively ID'd Yeshuah ben Josef, a young man in Nazareth. The mere presence of the observer changed the timeline somehow, and thus when he traveled back to the future it wasn't 616 anymore but 615 or 617 or whatever. You can never go home again, as it were, unless you can aim through universes.
Of course, you're getting into the pragmatic effects of superpowers and super-tech again, which as we know is a whole rat's-nest of problems.
Actually, the only contrary instances I'm aware of are 1602's pocket universe (which was going to be destroyed after Rogers was sent back to the future until the Watcher kept it safe) and Iron-Lad. Iron-Lad, coincidentally, was a teenage Kang and for some reason instead of creating a branching future it actually altered Kang's past. This was never explained.
If that happens, I will walk into my local Nerd Store, pick it up, start screaming, and promptly shit myself with joy. I will never wash those undies again. As far as people taking the whole "Cap dying/giving up the Anti-Reg fight" thing hard goes, how about
Also. I think when Penance eventually takes off that stupid fucking outfit, it will be at the hands of....Ghost Rider.
Now hear me out.
After having needing some power through whatever shitty "I need pain" mechanism he has, he is in a situation in which the Ghost Rider is around due to Danny Way's shitty writing. Now, he asks for GR to give him the Penance Stare and he realizes he's not responsible for Stamford, so much as he's responsible for the death of the New Warriors. Takes outfit off, eats chili with Nova, and everyone gets a blowjob. The end.
I don't care if he takes the suit off or not. I just wanna see Nova kick his ass and call him a pussy. Seriously, even if he finds a way to bring Cap back to life and reprogram Tony's brain to not be a dick, i still wouldn't like what he's become.
I love you just a little but.
I think we may have our selves a new Captain America.
Well they were setting it up in Civil War #7...
3DS: 5241-1953-7031
The Punisher doesn't need a fucking shield.
Oh geez
Am I late?
Oh well.
3DS: 5241-1953-7031
It's just the Punisher with a almost-Cap mask.
Arms too.
And rather a lot of pouches. Thats never a good sign.
It's so he doesn't run out of bubble gum anymore.
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and...
Aw man!"
Spidey is one of the ones affected the most by Registration, he was the first to take off his mask. And on national TV, too. I think that after realizing he was fighting back, when his leader gave up (pussy), it was pointless, and combined with the spoiler, we're gonna have some spider-rage going on.
The Road to Civil War (7 issues)
* Amazing Spider-Man #529-531: "Mr. Parker goes to Washington"
* Civil War: Opening Shot Sketchbook (one-shot)
* Fantastic Four #536-537: "The Hammer Falls"
* New Avengers: The Illuminati (one-shot)
Civil War (86 issues)
* Civil War (seven-issue miniseries)
* Civil War: Choosing Sides (one-shot)
* Civil War Files (one-shot)
* Civil War: Front Line (eleven-issue mini-series)
* Civil War: Poster Book (one-shot)
* Civil War: The Return (one-shot)
* Civil War: War Crimes (one-shot)
* Civil War: X-Men (four-issue mini-series)
* Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways (four-issue mini-series)
* Amazing Spider-Man #532-538: "The War at Home"
* Black Panther (vol. 4) #18, #23-25 "War Crimes"
* Cable/Deadpool #30-32
* Captain America #22-24
* Daily Bugle: Civil War Edition (one-shot)
* Fantastic Four #538-543
* Heroes For Hire (vol. 2) #1-3
* Iron Man (vol. 4) #13-14
* Marvel Spotlight #6: Mark Millar|Millar/Steve McNiven
* Ms. Marvel #6-8: "Battle Lines"
* New Avengers #21-25: "New Avengers: Disassembled"
* The Punisher War Journal (vol. 2) #1-3
* She-Hulk (vol. 2) #8
* Thunderbolts #103-105
* Wolverine #42-47: "Vendetta"
* X-Factor #8-9
Spider-Man Unmasked (13 Issues)
* Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #11-16
* The Sensational Spider-Man (vol. 2) #28-34
Casualties of War (11 Issues)
* Blade (vol. 3) #5
* Iron Man/Captain America Special (one-shot)
* Ghost Rider (vol. 4) #8 "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Illinois"
* Moon Knight (vol. 4) #7-8, 10: "Midnight Sun"
* Winter Soldier: Winter Kills (one-shot)
* Wolverine #48
Collected Reprints
* Amazing Spider-Man: Decisions (Collects Amazing Spider-Man 529-532)
* Thunderbolts: Swimming with Sharks (Collects Thunderbolts 103-105)
* Black Panther: War Crimes (Collects Black Panther 21-23)
* Civil War: Casualties of War: (Collects Winter Soldier: Winter Kills, Iron Man/Captain America Special, and Civil War: War Crimes)
So true. I started reading this one on a whim and it's turned out to be pretty cool. Between this and Invincible Iron Man, I'm finding it hard to continue to actively hate Tony. I've sorta settled on stern disapproval.
Powersurge, the trades have started hitting the stores and, by May or June, most of the CW should be collected in TPB or hardcover. I'd recommend waiting for the trades. Trying to actually collect the entire series at this late stage would be an exercise in frustration.