Official Civil War Thread Version 3.0

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  • KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    http://marvel.com/blogs/Tom_Brevoort/entry/814

    Tom B posted an awesome blog today. It's the original outline for Civil War by Millar. A lot of interesting stuff like Stamford not even being a part of it and Nick Fury still running Shield at the time (although its basically the exact same moment substituting Hill for Fury in the proposal that showed up in CW) and so on. Tony has a much better premise for being pro-Reg as his best friend Happy's son/godson (Tom B points out he doesnt have a son and has comments about what to do with it) is killed during Speedball's attempt to break up a robbery, giving Tony a real reason to be so pro-Reg.

    There was talk of tying it into WWH / Planet Hulk by having Hulk come back at the end and forcing everyone to join together to stop him but Tom B doesnt want it to turn into chasing the dollar like DC (I think it was meant as Identity Crisis leads to Infinite leads to 52, etc and not a direct bash of DC) and other interesting points.

    Oddly enough, Loeb is the one that made the big deal about there having to be a bunch of deaths in CW to make it actually worthwhile.

    KVW on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    [JQ - Mark, to give Cap’s argument weight, I say that one of the heroes that registered has his family killed by a villain. This way when Fury tells Cap it’s all going to be confidential, Cap calls him on it, anything can be leaked.]

    Wow. That's just a bit ham-fisted.

    Crimsondude on
  • grendel824_grendel824_ Registered User
    edited July 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.

    Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.

    grendel824_ on
  • grendel824_grendel824_ Registered User
    edited July 2007
    People are forgetting something very important. The Marvel Universe is not Real Life. It is a Comic Book.

    You're forgetting something important - nobody here has been fooled into thinking these comics WERE real life. We're debating the merits of the storytelling and enjoying it. You're also forgetting that in order to be entertaining, a piece of entertaining has to have SOMETHING to do with real life , otherwise it would be complete gibberish and/or totally useless. Like your post. :P

    grendel824_ on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.

    Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.

    Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.

    In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).

    mattharvest on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.

    Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.

    Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.

    In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).
    That's exactly what I was saying.

    Fencingsax on
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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    edited July 2007
    So I just finished reading the CW: Frontline vol 2. And.... wow. Wow.

    The Myspace thing was as terrible as advertised... but.. to follow it up with giving Tony a pass for manipulating the whole thing?

    Sally gives Tony a pass for scaring the heroes into taking sides and escalating the fighting, and has the gall to blame all the death and destruction on Captain freaking America?

    Frontline made my brain hurt, and made me so very very angry.

    I hope both Sally Floyd and Ben Urich have been replaced by skrulls and that someone kills them both.

    Ringo on
    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • grendel824_grendel824_ Registered User
    edited August 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.

    Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.

    Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.

    In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).
    That's exactly what I was saying.


    Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification (it was exactly what you MEANT by what you were saying, but not necessarily what you were saying without such clarification). Your argument officially makes sense.

    grendel824_ on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Well, I'm glad there's an old thread on this, because I don't know nearly enough to start my own.

    I just started reading the 'Chronicles' issues(they're being sold at 7-11s and such), and I'm wondering how much of the story these have, since there seems to be a thousand and one spin-offs of the series.

    I also looked at the Deadpool/Factor-X graphic novels at a bookstore. Were those side-stories, or part of the main arc?

    Lastly, how long is the Chronicles thing set to go for? I'm wondering how big a hole I've dug for myself here.

    I haven't kept up with Marvel for like, oh, six years before this, so I'm hoping I won't be too completely lost, but I figure now's a good time to play catch-up.

    cj iwakura on
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  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Well, I'm glad there's an old thread on this, because I don't know nearly enough to start my own.

    I just started reading the 'Chronicles' issues(they're being sold at 7-11s and such), and I'm wondering how much of the story these have, since there seems to be a thousand and one spin-offs of the series.

    I also looked at the Deadpool/Factor-X graphic novels at a bookstore. Were those side-stories, or part of the main arc?

    Lastly, how long is the Chronicles thing set to go for? I'm wondering how big a hole I've dug for myself here.

    I haven't kept up with Marvel for like, oh, six years before this, so I'm hoping I won't be too completely lost, but I figure now's a good time to play catch-up.

    As far as I know Chronicles should keep going until they reprint the whole thing or they stop selling.

    All I read was the main series along w/ the Amazing Spider-Man and FF issues and I felt I got the whole story. The tie-ins are just that, you could just buy the Civil War trade and get a grasp on the whole thing easily.

    Maximum on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    edited September 2007
    As I understand it, Chronices is going up to the end of Civil War, only they're including relevant tie-in issues. Like Civil War #2 was bookended by two issues of Amazing Spider-Man.

    DJ Eebs on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    It sounds like that's going to be a lot of issues. If the summaries I've seen are any indication, the first two issues barely scratch the surface.

    cj iwakura on
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  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I just started reading al of the CW TPBs that hit. I have finished everything but Frontline 2, Punisher, Black Panther, Young Avengers/Runaways, and Cable/Deadpool...maybe something else. All the main stuff is out of the way, though, and I've got to say I've enjoyed the heck out of it. Early on I was even being pulled to both sides of the registration, I felt conflicted on which side to fall on. That didn't last terribly long, not with all of the dick moves Tony and crew did. Especially bringing on guys like Bullseye to help bring in anti-registration heroes.
    When I picked up Ms. Marvel I actually got ticked off that she joined pro-registration, I kept hoping she'd get talked into anti. I don't know why, I mean it fits her personality. Part of it has to do with her House of M arch, I felt she was going to become a "pure" hero.

    The Tony Stark Confessions was great, Tony makes a wonderful villain without really being a villain.

    I do have a question, I don't know why I'm spoilering this since freaking CNN ruined it for me but,
    is the actual death of Captain America shown or do we just find out in Confessions? I'm assuming that TPB just hasn't been released yet because his death wasn't included in the Captain America TPB.

    And what is up with Captain Marvel? I was excited about his return but it was so empty. I would love to see him end up falling on the anti side and leading a prison break. A Marvel vs Sentry fight would be aces.

    Accualt on
  • KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    This month's Wizard has a decent article on Civil War. It's basically a commentary by Millar and McNiven on random scenes from each issue from 1-7. They comment on stuff like the Cap / Tony fight, Clor, Spidey Unmasking and other big scenes. Pretty entertaining, but I dont know if its worth buying Wizard just for it.

    KVW on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    A_ccualt wrote: »
    I do have a question, I don't know why I'm spoilering this since freaking CNN ruined it for me but,
    is the actual death of Captain America shown or do we just find out in Confessions? I'm assuming that TPB just hasn't been released yet because his death wasn't included in the Captain America TPB.

    And what is up with Captain Marvel? I was excited about his return but it was so empty. I would love to see him end up falling on the anti side and leading a prison break. A Marvel vs Sentry fight would be aces.

    Cap was killed in Captain America #25. It will be in the next TPB AFAIK, and the Ed Brubaker Omnibus coming out in October (November?). It is good.

    Captain Marvel has a mini coming out in the fall that deals with his tenure as the warden of 42, among other things.

    Crimsondude on
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Is that a Captain America Omnibus or a Civil War Omnibus?
    Because I would have loved a CW Omnibus and will be rather upset if I jumped the gun by purchasing all of these TPBs individually. Not that anything can be done about it now, of course.

    EDIT: NM, found it online, Captain America. Amazon has it available for pre-order. Captain America 1-25, 65th Anniversary, & Winter Kills. Hmmm, think I have some of those.

    Accualt on
  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    There will most certainly be a CW Omnibus at some point, and I've seen rumors of a digital collection from Git Corp. I don't want to get off topic but those digital collections of Marvel's old books are the best thing since sliced bread.

    Maximum on
  • VirralVirral Registered User
    edited September 2007
    There is a Captain America Omnibus on the way, I have no idea about a CW omnibus but it seems unlikely, Marvel doesn't seem to produce the Omnibus editions for everything, just "special" runs (Alias, Morissions New X-Men etc).

    Here is the link to the Amazon page for the Captain America Omnibus

    Virral on
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  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    MaximumJ wrote: »
    There will most certainly be a CW Omnibus at some point, and I've seen rumors of a digital collection from Git Corp. I don't want to get off topic but those digital collections of Marvel's old books are the best thing since sliced bread.


    The only one I've bought has just been a bunch of PDF files. I wasn't expecting as good of a presentation as the free ones they put on their webpage but I was at least expecting a custom program that makes it easy to view and flip through the issues. I was really rather disappointed.

    Accualt on
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I wish I hadn't bought the New X-Men Omnibus. I already had the first hardcover. The thing is just too fucking thick to read.

    august on
    Pac Man's character is difficult to explain even to the Japanese -- he is an innocent character. He hasn't been educated to discern between good and evil. He acts more like a small child than a grown-up person. Think of him as a child learning in the course of his daily activities. If someone tells him guns are evil, he would be the type to rush out and eat guns. But he would most probably eat any gun, even the pistols of policemen who need them.
  • AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I will never understand why TPBs don't have an extra half an inch, or whatever is appropriate based on page count, on the binded end of each page to ensure all of the art can be seen. That and being behind all of you are the only downsides in my dedication to TPBs.

    Accualt on
  • VirralVirral Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Yeah, I am also a TPB-only reader and i freaking hate it when they are bound too closely to see splash pages properly.

    Virral on
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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Crimsondude on
  • VirralVirral Registered User
    edited September 2007
    Me too :D

    Virral on
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