First one I severely underestimated Jarvan's survivability, and never got a kill after buying multiple doran's rings. Also, I sensed ganks, but never actually did anything about it, like back off or buy a ward. Then our team screwed up in teamfights (probably mostly caused by the enemy Nocturne). Also our Trynd kept whiffing his ult. Somehow.
Second one was pretty much perfect. I zoned the hell out of a Vayne in mid, never died, and got a few kills and a ton of assists. Our Galio kept dying to the enemy Yorick, but I won a protracted fight in bot lane involving all 10 people (3v3 at a time) by being level 18 with a Deathcap while everyone else was level 13-15, with liberal use of Black Shield and walking into melee range so I couldn't miss. Also, Galio ult is hilarious with other AoE ults, which we had a good number of. Also, I caught an enemy Shaco with Q+W while he was still stealthed by Deceive for an ace.
If they send Irelia top, counterpick Singed and send him up there. Singed does hilarious and awful things to her.
Basically got to make sure she can't get a safe time to autoattack creeps for health. You need a combination of beef to not give a fuck if she picks a fight and persistent threat so she can't attempt to time cooldowns or whatever.
This is truth. A week ago I had to solo against an Irelia, and I finally died to her once about 25 minutes in. I could get her down to half health pretty easy and she'd run. Unfortunately, I didn't pack enough punch to kill her, too much sustain. Everything was ok until she finally had enough for a Trinity.
Is anyone else noticing that occasionally it seems like Talon is moving much faster than he should be? A 395 movespeed Talon (didn't seem to have nimbleness) was outrunning me as a 420something Tristana. This is not the first time I've been unable to catch him when I've not been slowed on someone who has a higher movement speed, and I'm getting a little suspicious of it.
Well that movespeed difference means you are only 5% faster than him and he can instantly close the distance to you once there is enough of a gap to stop his melee attacks. It might be that his melee attack range is long.
Dancing Bagel
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Well that movespeed difference means you are only 5% faster than him and he can instantly close the distance to you once there is enough of a gap to stop his melee attacks. It might be that his melee attack range is long.
No autos. We were both just running in the same direction, with me trying to get into reach to rocket jump onto him. No obstacles, both on pretty much the same line. He flat out outran me.
And this isn't the only time I've seen it happen. He outran me once as a Garen with Q up, and again, I wasn't slowed. I am convinced of jiggery-pokery.
Hmm, any Renek players in here? I need some basic guidelines laid out for me. Is it better to prioritize damage, attack speed, or lifesteal with him? And starting out, do you build him tanky or go straight glass cannon?
I've been doing more of a glass cannon build figuring I could pull a Xin and heal up attacking minions, but it's not working very well. I've since switched to a Frozen mallet based build, but he still doesn't feel quite right.
for youse who play some shaco, do you go with flat AD or ARpen? AD would be be slightly better early game, while ARpen would pull ahead late. i'm thinking better early game with what i should shoot for. i guess i should just try it out and see what happens. thoughts?
Another game, another 4v5 from 3 minutes in. Another 30 minutes of my evening wasted on pointless shit.
I'm just not really sure how you're having this horrible luck. You're the same level as me on the same server, so we'd pull from the same player pop. I solo queue 90% of the time and don't encounter 1/10 as many shitlords as you seem to.
Rami has mentioned multiple que dodges, is it possible que dodging has him more likely to be matched up with other que dodgers and other low feedback players?
0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
Hmm, any Renek players in here? I need some basic guidelines laid out for me. Is it better to prioritize damage, attack speed, or lifesteal with him? And starting out, do you build him tanky or go straight glass cannon?
I've been doing more of a glass cannon build figuring I could pull a Xin and heal up attacking minions, but it's not working very well. I've since switched to a Frozen mallet based build, but he still doesn't feel quite right.
How I play Renekton:
(which is probably wrong)
Masteries: 21/9/0. I run ArPen Marks/Armour Yellow/Flat MRes Blues/Movement Speed Quints.
1st point in W for the stun, then Q at level 2. E at level 3. Afterwards I prioritise R > Q > E > W. Starting with Boots +3pots, my first item is a Brutalizer. Then I grab my Boots 2 (either Merc Treads or Ninja Tabi to maximise on the Nimbleness Mastery, since to harass in lane you will be drawing aggro from dem minions).
If you're stomping faces, go Warmogs + Atmas for lulz. Srs games, Sunfire + Force of Nature (depending on enemy team comp, prioritise the bigger threats). Then a Youmuu's. Then I generally get whatever will screw the team over more. End-game Last Whisper is nice, as is Black Cleaver.
Another game, another 4v5 from 3 minutes in. Another 30 minutes of my evening wasted on pointless shit.
I'm just not really sure how you're having this horrible luck. You're the same level as me on the same server, so we'd pull from the same player pop. I solo queue 90% of the time and don't encounter 1/10 as many shitlords as you seem to.
Rami has mentioned multiple que dodges, is it possible que dodging has him more likely to be matched up with other que dodgers and other low feedback players?
They've stated outright that dodgers are placed in tiers with other dodgers. If Rami has a bunch of dodges on record, he's being dropped in a bracket alongside other people who have done the same.
What is this I don't even.
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Why can I not win a ranked game????? I just went like 16/4/12 as wukong. And that still isn't enough. And of course in that game our cait is nagging at me to buy armour pen, over and over. Despite already having a ghostblade and ar pen quints and marks. She was pissed that I didn't also have a last whisper. Her reasoning? Because we couldn't focus down their tank. Yes, she was focusing their tank and yelling at me because I couldn't 1v1 their TANK. God forbid I focus their damage dealers and carries. No freaking wonder we lost. Most frustrating thing in the world, realizing that you aren't terrible, but you also aren't any where near good enough to carry yourself out of this muck.
The gods certainly weren't role models in our sense, unless you wanted to model a Mount Olympus trailer park.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
for youse who play some shaco, do you go with flat AD or ARpen? AD would be be slightly better early game, while ARpen would pull ahead late. i'm thinking better early game with what i should shoot for. i guess i should just try it out and see what happens. thoughts?
I've been using armour pen reds flat ad yellows blues quints then a doran's blade opener
Why can I not win a ranked game????? I just went like 16/4/12 as wukong. And that still isn't enough. And of course in that game our cait is nagging at me to buy armour pen, over and over. Despite already having a ghostblade and ar pen quints and marks. She was pissed that I didn't also have a last whisper. Her reasoning? Because we couldn't focus down their tank. Yes, she was focusing their tank and yelling at me because I couldn't 1v1 their TANK. God forbid I focus their damage dealers and carries. No freaking wonder we lost. Most frustrating thing in the world, realizing that you aren't terrible, but you also aren't any where near good enough to carry yourself out of this muck.
For simple curiosity, how many towers did you kill? You told us about your good KDA without realising all it means is you killed a lot and died a little. Not really a good indicator of how your game actually went.
To give an example, the most recent game I played. For all I know if you look at kills we shouldn't have won it - we were behind on kills nearly all game long, our jungler kept being counterjungled, and our carry ended with a 1/7/11 KDA while theirs went 9/3/4 (and two of those deaths were in the two final teamfights). However, two major points of the game explains better why we won: for one, dragon control, netting us a good money advantage over the entire enemy team. And for two, we were always up in towers destroyed - more precisely, the enemy did not kill a single tower the entire game.. The same carry I said went 1/7/11 had the most towers killed out of any of us.
tl;dr you win when the nexus that isn't yours explodes. MOBA isn't Team Deathmatch.
for youse who play some shaco, do you go with flat AD or ARpen? AD would be be slightly better early game, while ARpen would pull ahead late. i'm thinking better early game with what i should shoot for. i guess i should just try it out and see what happens. thoughts?
I've been using armour pen reds flat ad yellows blues quints then a doran's blade opener
nobody expects the surprise level 1 deceive shank
well, i only have AD reds/quints, i think i'll try it if i ever play again. mcaffee keeps removing some needed files, so i can't play on my lappy anymore (corporate security). meaning i don't really even get to play bot matches anymore :,(
1. How do you pronounce your name?
2. What is Riven's Q based on / play like?
1. Xypherous is pronounced like Zephyrous.
2. Riven's Q is essentially Marth's Dancing Blade ability with a little more leeway, hence my internal name. Unfortunately, I couldn't do the branching paths of Dancing Blade.. mostly because in our game, those paths would be mostly cosmetic. Each Q is independent of the others, and each Q makes you move forward to your cursor or the champion you are highlighting and strike.
So, her basic combo is performed - Q -> Q -> Q, essentially.
Her 'W' and her 'E' abilities are simple skills meant to be easily weaved between the Q sequences. Q -> Q -> Q -> W -> E, for example is a standard harassment chain, as you will slash in, disorient everyone, stun everyone, and then run back out with a shield. Her other basic chain: E -> Q -> Q -> Q is simply a range extension on her Q. It's definitely not as intricate as Orianna's skill chains though, as they're meant to be really basic fighting needs.
Using your other moves will not cancel your Q string. However, you only have a short time window to use your next Q (somewhere around 3 seconds). It's kind of like Slice and Dice in that respect with regards to timing windows / cooldowns.
Riven's last Q has roughly 50% more radius and a knockback shockwave, so that's what you get for 'completing' it.
Here E and her W don't modify based on her Q state. I might explore that later but I need to see how Riven pans out in general.
Anything special about her shield?
Not a whole lot. It's a shield with a short dash associated with it with some scaling.
This character has no AP ratios - Triforce *might* be good, haven't really thought about it that much, but Sheen will kind of suck as she won't benefit from the mana or AP.
It's just kind of a throw-away, but you know how you shield and roll in SSBM with a short-hop and then shield state? That's the feeling I wanted to capture, but it's a pretty simple ability, like all her abilities.
How does wind slash work?
Wind Slash is a cone AoE damage ability that you gain one use of while her ultimate is in progress. It has quasi-execute style scaling in that you'd want to use it while the opponent's health is low.
Do you need to hit a target like Slice and Dice?
No. You don't. The mobility from each individual component of her abilities is low, but she has 3 Q's and an E. The total distance of movement is still only roughly 1000, but broken into 4 smaller chunks.
The Q cooldown timer starts as soon as you use the first use of the ability though, so blowing your Q string faster won't make Q cool up faster, similar to slice and dice.
Does each Q have a cost?
No. Admittedly, this is one of the things I probably could have polished a bit on. There's almost no reason *not* to finish your Q-string in this iteration, besides a little bit of animation time for the last Q.
Is she cooldown limited like Kat and Garen?
Yes, she is simply CDR limited and meant to be somewhat easier to pick up and play.
With mobility champions, one of the things you have to keep in mind is that you can generally have people care about resource management or positioning - Making them care about both overly much just doesn't quite work out in terms of mental space. Instead of having fake mana costs, it's just simpler to have no mana costs.
e, can it be used as a viable escape? (also, are the animations long enough that it's not a viable escape?)
Eeeh. It's somewhat faster than normally moving until you get up to 475 move speed or so, then it's roughly equivalent.
If your movement speed is something crazy like 550, her Q would be slower than actually running, if my math works out.
Is Q like Lay Waste, auto-smartcast wherever your cursor is?
It's a no-click cast, like lay waste. It's closer to pounce, except that it also respects cursor position if you have it locked onto a nearby target.
That is, if you are actively targetting a champion, Riven will go towards your cursor if it is hovering near an enemy, but if your cursor is nowhere near anything resembling something that makes sense, she'll just Q forward instead.
The targetting mechanics are arcane and bizarre under the hood.
But moving via Q is unaffected by slows right?
Moving via Q is unaffected by slows, yes. So if Ashe is attempting to kite you or drag you back, your Q will still let you close in.
So Q is pretty much Nidalee's pounce with the execution of Vayne's tumble?
Vayne's tumble *always* goes towards your cursor, while Nidalee's pounce always goes toward the character facing.
This is far closer to pounce but it makes some allowances for who you might want to kill.
One of the reasons I've always loved DotA-like games is the sheer amount of diversity and customization possible, both by the order you learn your skills, and more importantly, the items you buy. It's also the reason I played Diablo 2 for so long, as you know.
I feel like the artificial AP/AD build splitting actually hurts the diversity and customization for certain characters. For example, Sion's AP/AD split hurts his diversity because he can't really fit along a spectrum of AD or spectrum of AD.
In general, Riven's split will be determined by whether you want to max W or E, as their cooldowns go down with level. W will grant you higher damage and more uptime on her stun, but E will grant her increased durability and heightened mobility, especially at higher ranks.
Since Riven has no AP scaling, I've found that a wide spectrum of items works.. just so long as the thing has AD on it.
How bad of an idea would it be, then, to make the distance moved on her Q based on her movement speed? Have a base and have it go upward based on how much bonus MS she has?
When we do this, we usually make it affected by both hastes and slows. So, this would cause her Q's to be slower if she is slowed, something that I wanted to avoid on her pure offense skill.
Her 'E' however, does follow this rule, as it's her general mobility skill.
And do any/all hits of Q proc on-hit abilities like sheen or lifesteal?
Nah. The Q is an AoE nova, so making it proc on-hits would be kind of insane.
In some parallel universe, we will be able to make an AoE that applies on-hit ability. In that parallel universe, Tiamat will be gutted and removed from play.
Is that bad, though? (in this iteration, there is no reason not to finish the q sequence)
In general, if you put in a pattern where you always want the last bit of a skill and there's no cost/tradeoff, people tend to start mashing buttons constantly.
If you put in just a little disincentive for the longer chains, I feel like the overall gameplay is a little bit more interesting and you can have some guessing games between you and your opponent. For example, a lot of Taki's mix-ups in Soul Calibur 2 is whether or not she'll go for the unsafe 3rd portion of her strings or the safe versions of them.
When she's in her ultimate form, does the increased sword size increase the range of your skills at all? Or aid in helping you close larger gaps?
Her basic attack range is increased, and her Q/W impact novas are 25% bigger.
How long are her stuns?
Her stun durations are very low, as they are meant to be flash-stuns and interrupts.
For example, the Q knockback stun duration is only 0.25 second, while her W stun length is only 0.5 seconds long.
They're meant to be chained with each other to get a long stun (Q -> W for a 0.75 second AoE) or chained together to achieve a good escape (W -> E for a flash stun + escape), rather than a long AoE stun.
Will she be able to solo top?
I don't really know. What I expect to happen and what actually happens tends to turn out to be crushingly different, if Orianna is any indication. Thus far, she has proven to be very strong in one on one fights, if you are careful to play a harassment style top.
Of course, strong zoners/pokers like Kennen or Oriannas will pose problems, simply because of their crushing range. I'd say it depends on the matchup.
In the endgame with a fully complete build, what incentive is there to continue using Q chains?
1. Her last hit of her Q chain has a interrupt-type knockback.
2. She doesn't do well with attack speed/crit builds. Her passive and ratios encourages her to build straight AD.
3. At the very least, it moves you and can be used to reposition - See, for caitlyn, any time you can shoot her Q, she could probably also autoattack. For a melee, sometimes, you just need to get closer, and that's what the Q allows you to do.
How durable is she?
It depends on a lot on how you build her, but her only kit-based form of passive defense is her shield. We have a few items that work well as AD/Defense stats which works nicely with the shield (Wriggle's / Hexdrinker / Atmas / Triforce / Doran's Blade) but it's conceivable that you might want to go pure attack.
She has a lot of active defenses like her mobility/disruption effects, but it won't be like 'Hi, I'm Renekton, I have 17,000 health and drain 400 with every Q in a teamfight.'
Anyway, did you think about her abilities doing different things when casted in different order?
Yes, this is the 'monk' kit. Thought about it, but it was layering risk on top of risk. Let's see how her Q works before worrying about the kit with 3 of her Q's.
for youse who play some shaco, do you go with flat AD or ARpen? AD would be be slightly better early game, while ARpen would pull ahead late. i'm thinking better early game with what i should shoot for. i guess i should just try it out and see what happens. thoughts?
I go arpen reds and quints because i like having 31 armor pen to stack with brutalizer/ghostblade later on
armor pen has increasing returns (as long as you don't pen past 0) and it makes him HURT a lot early-mid game
though yes having AD quints in conjunction with armor pen reds is better early game, because the armor pen is overkill early on
I play with people my level and feel like I'm good at the game. Then I play with PAers, get set against higher level people and feel like I'm an embarrassment. Must stop sucking.
Posts
First one I severely underestimated Jarvan's survivability, and never got a kill after buying multiple doran's rings. Also, I sensed ganks, but never actually did anything about it, like back off or buy a ward. Then our team screwed up in teamfights (probably mostly caused by the enemy Nocturne). Also our Trynd kept whiffing his ult. Somehow.
Second one was pretty much perfect. I zoned the hell out of a Vayne in mid, never died, and got a few kills and a ton of assists. Our Galio kept dying to the enemy Yorick, but I won a protracted fight in bot lane involving all 10 people (3v3 at a time) by being level 18 with a Deathcap while everyone else was level 13-15, with liberal use of Black Shield and walking into melee range so I couldn't miss. Also, Galio ult is hilarious with other AoE ults, which we had a good number of. Also, I caught an enemy Shaco with Q+W while he was still stealthed by Deceive for an ace.
This is truth. A week ago I had to solo against an Irelia, and I finally died to her once about 25 minutes in. I could get her down to half health pretty easy and she'd run. Unfortunately, I didn't pack enough punch to kill her, too much sustain. Everything was ok until she finally had enough for a Trinity.
Well that movespeed difference means you are only 5% faster than him and he can instantly close the distance to you once there is enough of a gap to stop his melee attacks. It might be that his melee attack range is long.
And this isn't the only time I've seen it happen. He outran me once as a Garen with Q up, and again, I wasn't slowed. I am convinced of jiggery-pokery.
I've been doing more of a glass cannon build figuring I could pull a Xin and heal up attacking minions, but it's not working very well. I've since switched to a Frozen mallet based build, but he still doesn't feel quite right.
Rami has mentioned multiple que dodges, is it possible que dodging has him more likely to be matched up with other que dodgers and other low feedback players?
How I play Renekton:
(which is probably wrong)
Masteries: 21/9/0. I run ArPen Marks/Armour Yellow/Flat MRes Blues/Movement Speed Quints.
1st point in W for the stun, then Q at level 2. E at level 3. Afterwards I prioritise R > Q > E > W. Starting with Boots +3pots, my first item is a Brutalizer. Then I grab my Boots 2 (either Merc Treads or Ninja Tabi to maximise on the Nimbleness Mastery, since to harass in lane you will be drawing aggro from dem minions).
If you're stomping faces, go Warmogs + Atmas for lulz. Srs games, Sunfire + Force of Nature (depending on enemy team comp, prioritise the bigger threats). Then a Youmuu's. Then I generally get whatever will screw the team over more. End-game Last Whisper is nice, as is Black Cleaver.
They've stated outright that dodgers are placed in tiers with other dodgers. If Rami has a bunch of dodges on record, he's being dropped in a bracket alongside other people who have done the same.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
i'm glad they have their own personal hell though.
Jax.
Rumble wins, Nasus can sustain and farm (Which is a win for him)
Is it not out yet or something?
how do I troll him
whiffing ults all day
although to be fair i was playing on a ridiculously horrible connection the last..every time..that i have ever played orianna
wonder if i'm good at her on a real connection
Looks like you didn't have to. Such a silly game.
"gotta go, fire alarm"
Oh. You saw all those?
The only ult I landed was a command protect > ult when I knew Kat was going to shunpo > spin.
I really need to practice more with her. I've got maybe 10 games total on Ori.
I've been using armour pen reds flat ad yellows blues quints then a doran's blade opener
nobody expects the surprise level 1 deceive shank
now I must get soviet swain
For simple curiosity, how many towers did you kill? You told us about your good KDA without realising all it means is you killed a lot and died a little. Not really a good indicator of how your game actually went.
To give an example, the most recent game I played. For all I know if you look at kills we shouldn't have won it - we were behind on kills nearly all game long, our jungler kept being counterjungled, and our carry ended with a 1/7/11 KDA while theirs went 9/3/4 (and two of those deaths were in the two final teamfights). However, two major points of the game explains better why we won: for one, dragon control, netting us a good money advantage over the entire enemy team. And for two, we were always up in towers destroyed - more precisely, the enemy did not kill a single tower the entire game.. The same carry I said went 1/7/11 had the most towers killed out of any of us.
tl;dr you win when the nexus that isn't yours explodes. MOBA isn't Team Deathmatch.
well, i only have AD reds/quints, i think i'll try it if i ever play again. mcaffee keeps removing some needed files, so i can't play on my lappy anymore (corporate security). meaning i don't really even get to play bot matches anymore :,(
I go arpen reds and quints because i like having 31 armor pen to stack with brutalizer/ghostblade later on
armor pen has increasing returns (as long as you don't pen past 0) and it makes him HURT a lot early-mid game
though yes having AD quints in conjunction with armor pen reds is better early game, because the armor pen is overkill early on
Oh my.
Finished gathering all the details. Also, did I mention day one purchase? Because, you know, day one purchase.
OUTRAGE