Does nobody use cloaked units at the top of the NA/Euro ladders against Terran? Every single goddamn foreigner Terran who comes to Korea loses to Banshees or DTs.
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
OK, GSL off.
Can't be bothered to continue to watch a TvT with these two talking.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
MC =((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Salty. Can I say salty? That's more of a Marvel thing.
3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2011
Out of 32 Code S players this season
20 are Terran (up from 17 last season)
5 are Protoss (down from 8 previous season)
7 are Zerg (same as last season)
Out of 32 Code A players this season
8 are Terran (down from 15 last season, four of those 15 making Code S)
12 are Protoss (up from 9 last season, due to three Code S protoss being knocked down to Code A)
12 are Zerg (up from 8 last season)
Also worth pointing out that, of the Protoss in Code A, three are already out of Code A and two of them were Code S last season.
Its a shame that the casters for Code A can be so annoying, because the games are rapidly becoming the far more diverse set of matches. TvT is fun and all to watch, but it gets staaaale.
EDIT: also, this was mentioned earlier, but its relevant. Tonight's win of JYP over JookTo was the first time a Protoss has won a televised GSL series (a series being bo3 or longer) since August 24th.
20 are Terran (up from 17 last season)
5 are Protoss (down from 8 previous season)
7 are Zerg (same as last season)
Out of 32 Code A players this season
8 are Terran (down from 15 last season, four of those 15 making Code S)
12 are Protoss (up from 9 last season, due to three Code S protoss being knocked down to Code A)
12 are Zerg (up from 8 last season)
Also worth pointing out that, of the Protoss in Code A, three are already out of Code A and two of them were Code S last season.
Its a shame that the casters for Code A can be so annoying, because the games are rapidly becoming the far more diverse set of matches. TvT is fun and all to watch, but it gets staaaale.
Code A is only getting more diverse because that's where all the non-terrans go before they are eliminated by more terrans. Give it a few more months and it'll be TvT all day, every day.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I just 1base 5gate + robo Immortal all-in'd (around 9 minutes in) an expanding Terran and demolished him.
He floated his buildings all over the map and spent 5 minutes berating me for it being so broken that I can get so much stuff off of one base and just A-move to win.
Ah, sweet poetic justice.
Back to legit macro games, I s'ppose.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I played zerg last night! Against my friend, who started playing yesterday and is really awful because this is her first RTS :X
I maxed Roaches off of two bases and killed her >.>
Zerg was a ton of fun but holy required APM batman I can't multitask that well (yet... ;D)
How do people do their queens in an expedient manner?
I don't hotkey my queens
I have all hatcheries on 5, and have 6 changed to "next command center".
to inject I use 6 and mouse drag select queen + inject, hit 6 again, etc.
most pros use other styles though (one hot-key per queen and just double tap each queen to inject, or one hotkey per hatch, etc.)
I don't like double tapping keys, ever
it feels like a slow action
I don't hotkey my queens
I have all hatcheries on 5, and have 6 changed to "next command center".
to inject I use 6 and mouse drag select queen + inject, hit 6 again, etc.
most pros use other styles though (one hot-key per queen and just double tap each queen to inject, or one hotkey per hatch, etc.)
I don't like double tapping keys, ever
it feels like a slow action
i put all queens on 9, which I've also rebound to W. Inject has been rebound to E. SHIFT-SPACE I bound additionally to NextTownHall.
So, W, HOLD SHIFT FOR THE FOLLOWING [ E, SPACE, Click on Hatch, repeat space & click for all hatches].
Super fricking fast. The harder problem is remembering to do it.
The match up might need work, but I don't think late game ZvP is the problem. Not for protoss any ways.
Like, as someone starts pumping out 12-gate blink stalker / colossi / void ray / ht from 4+ bases, I don't think you'll hear them complain about anything in the zerg arsenal. Even infestor/broodlord.
I've more been hearing and seeing "god dammit, midgame infestor pressure crippled me again" or "ughhhh, roach / ling timings." Stuff like that.
Alternatively, "they did absolutely anything and my midgame cheese failed, dammit!"
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
To quote NesTea just before his finals against Mvp:
"T >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Z >>>>>> P"
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I do have to laugh at everyone saying that balance is "beyond a joke" or similar. Yes, there are balance concerns.
I played Dawn of War 2 at release. THAT was beyond a joke. There were hero/race combinations that had a 90-95% winrate at all levels of the game, and some that had <15%. Balance in SC2 may not be perfect, but you can't really make that case that ZvP is "completely unwinnable." Going against Ravener/Tyranids with anything besides Ravener/Tyranids (maaaaaaybe Hive Tyrant or Lictor/Tyranids if you were really, really good) was unwinnable.
As much as we might bitch to make ourselves feel better after a loss (and that's okay), it is pretty apparent that the effect balance has on games below grandmaster level is very small. Games are more decided by who makes the least mistakes.
The issue for me is more that, as a spectator and eSports enthusiast, it's very obvious that the game is not balanced enough for the top level of play (the GSL) and that makes for stale viewership.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I do have to laugh at everyone saying that balance is "beyond a joke" or similar. Yes, there are balance concerns.
I played Dawn of War 2 at release. THAT was beyond a joke. There were hero/race combinations that had a 90-95% winrate at all levels of the game, and some that had <15%. Balance in SC2 may not be perfect, but you can't really make that case that ZvP is "completely unwinnable." Going against Ravener/Tyranids with anything besides Ravener/Tyranids (maaaaaaybe Hive Tyrant or Lictor/Tyranids if you were really, really good) was unwinnable.
I'll give you that, it isn't Relic levels of bad. But I don't think any one is actually as bad as Relic are at balancing an RTS game.
Either way just because you don't need to play one race to get above a certain point in the ladder (DoW1 pre-expansions) doesn't mean one being able to come back from having five workers to another races thirty five (and a minute later having a better income 11 vs 35) should be accepted.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
No, I'm not arguing that, I think the game isn't really balanced.
one being able to come back from having five workers to another races thirty five (and a minute later having a better income 11 vs 35) should be accepted.
As much as we might bitch to make ourselves feel better after a loss (and that's okay), it is pretty apparent that the effect balance has on games below grandmaster level is very small. Games are more decided by who makes the least mistakes.
The issue for me is more that, as a spectator and eSports enthusiast, it's very obvious that the game is not balanced enough for the top level of play (the GSL) and that makes for stale viewership.
I think balance issues are largely a GM issue. Except, people watch the pros to get their builds and when there is an arguably OP early game timing attack the difference between the pros and mere mortals is not necessarily so big that it can be reasonably held off by another mere mortal (see 1-1-1, reaper rush early on, pre-nerf 4 gate PvP, etc). It leaks down faster than macro OP-ness would.
I certainly don't understand how you can call a match-up unwinnable with a win percentage of something like 46%.
I also wish people would decide which element of Terran is overpowered, because from what I've gathered every single Terran unit and mechanic is. I have literally seen every unit called overpowered many times (except the Raven and Battlecruiser).
I certainly don't understand how you can call a match-up unwinnable with a win percentage of something like 46%.
I also wish people would decide which element of Terran is overpowered, because from what I've gathered every single Terran unit and mechanic is. I have literally seen every unit called overpowered many times (except the Raven and Battlecruiser).
You haven't seen the Raven called overpowered? PDD is one of the most whined about skills.
I certainly don't understand how you can call a match-up unwinnable with a win percentage of something like 46%.
I also wish people would decide which element of Terran is overpowered, because from what I've gathered every single Terran unit and mechanic is. I have literally seen every unit called overpowered many times (except the Raven and Battlecruiser).
It's the whole package that's overpowered, you could fix that in a number of different ways. Different people have different opinions on the most elegant/best solution.
I mean the individual things are weights in a scale. You could choose one weight or another to remove, but something needs to be done to balance the scale.
Personally I think the most elegant solution is to nerf MULEs and Marines, just a little bit, to start out with, and see what happens.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Posts
EDIT: Lol TOTP. Whoops.
Can't be bothered to continue to watch a TvT with these two talking.
that's what you get maka
sjow did some stuff and maka did some stuff then sjow was suddenly 140 supply to 60.
I was reading a book on the side, makes TvT much more tolerable.
Salty. Can I say salty? That's more of a Marvel thing.
20 are Terran (up from 17 last season)
5 are Protoss (down from 8 previous season)
7 are Zerg (same as last season)
Out of 32 Code A players this season
8 are Terran (down from 15 last season, four of those 15 making Code S)
12 are Protoss (up from 9 last season, due to three Code S protoss being knocked down to Code A)
12 are Zerg (up from 8 last season)
Also worth pointing out that, of the Protoss in Code A, three are already out of Code A and two of them were Code S last season.
Its a shame that the casters for Code A can be so annoying, because the games are rapidly becoming the far more diverse set of matches. TvT is fun and all to watch, but it gets staaaale.
EDIT: also, this was mentioned earlier, but its relevant. Tonight's win of JYP over JookTo was the first time a Protoss has won a televised GSL series (a series being bo3 or longer) since August 24th.
Code A is only getting more diverse because that's where all the non-terrans go before they are eliminated by more terrans. Give it a few more months and it'll be TvT all day, every day.
Select doesn't surprise me, he's always been great. Sjow is a weird player in that in some games he looks AMAZING, and in some he looks awful.
They are not fixing terrans since they have no idea what they are doing.
He floated his buildings all over the map and spent 5 minutes berating me for it being so broken that I can get so much stuff off of one base and just A-move to win.
Ah, sweet poetic justice.
Back to legit macro games, I s'ppose.
I maxed Roaches off of two bases and killed her >.>
Zerg was a ton of fun but holy required APM batman I can't multitask that well (yet... ;D)
How do people do their queens in an expedient manner?
...
I think I may have enjoyed it too much.
You let the girl WIN.
for eSports!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
When I play Zerg I put my hatches on 2, then queens on 3-4-5-6-7. Tab, 1, and my two extra mouse buttons on my DeathAdder are unit control groups.
I don't hotkey my queens
I have all hatcheries on 5, and have 6 changed to "next command center".
to inject I use 6 and mouse drag select queen + inject, hit 6 again, etc.
most pros use other styles though (one hot-key per queen and just double tap each queen to inject, or one hotkey per hatch, etc.)
I don't like double tapping keys, ever
it feels like a slow action
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
i put all queens on 9, which I've also rebound to W. Inject has been rebound to E. SHIFT-SPACE I bound additionally to NextTownHall.
So, W, HOLD SHIFT FOR THE FOLLOWING [ E, SPACE, Click on Hatch, repeat space & click for all hatches].
Super fricking fast. The harder problem is remembering to do it.
Joe's Stream.
you gotta use the sc2 keyboard editor and rebind the keys....
Joe's Stream.
Pretty confused that TvZ dipped below 50.
Personal theory that mediocre Terrans are qualifying for matches against much stronger zerg players on the strength of their PvT.
I can believe that. I maintain that ZvT is actually really balanced.
XvP is fucked, though. ZvP and TvP are really hard (particularly late game ZvP), and PvP has always been a shithole.
Like, as someone starts pumping out 12-gate blink stalker / colossi / void ray / ht from 4+ bases, I don't think you'll hear them complain about anything in the zerg arsenal. Even infestor/broodlord.
I've more been hearing and seeing "god dammit, midgame infestor pressure crippled me again" or "ughhhh, roach / ling timings." Stuff like that.
edit: TvZ at 14-5 I think
double edit: no wait, PvZ is 5-12. With 3 of those wins from JYP.
That TDA game is ridiculous.
"T >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Z >>>>>> P"
I played Dawn of War 2 at release. THAT was beyond a joke. There were hero/race combinations that had a 90-95% winrate at all levels of the game, and some that had <15%. Balance in SC2 may not be perfect, but you can't really make that case that ZvP is "completely unwinnable." Going against Ravener/Tyranids with anything besides Ravener/Tyranids (maaaaaaybe Hive Tyrant or Lictor/Tyranids if you were really, really good) was unwinnable.
The issue for me is more that, as a spectator and eSports enthusiast, it's very obvious that the game is not balanced enough for the top level of play (the GSL) and that makes for stale viewership.
Either way just because you don't need to play one race to get above a certain point in the ladder (DoW1 pre-expansions) doesn't mean one being able to come back from having five workers to another races thirty five (and a minute later having a better income 11 vs 35) should be accepted.
But it could be much worse.
How the hell does that happen? Armies? More CC?
I think balance issues are largely a GM issue. Except, people watch the pros to get their builds and when there is an arguably OP early game timing attack the difference between the pros and mere mortals is not necessarily so big that it can be reasonably held off by another mere mortal (see 1-1-1, reaper rush early on, pre-nerf 4 gate PvP, etc). It leaks down faster than macro OP-ness would.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I also wish people would decide which element of Terran is overpowered, because from what I've gathered every single Terran unit and mechanic is. I have literally seen every unit called overpowered many times (except the Raven and Battlecruiser).
You haven't seen the Raven called overpowered? PDD is one of the most whined about skills.
It's the whole package that's overpowered, you could fix that in a number of different ways. Different people have different opinions on the most elegant/best solution.
I mean the individual things are weights in a scale. You could choose one weight or another to remove, but something needs to be done to balance the scale.
Personally I think the most elegant solution is to nerf MULEs and Marines, just a little bit, to start out with, and see what happens.