Yeah, I was under the impression that Team Ninja was really just there for gameplay, so as tempting as it is to make the objectification comparison to their other titles, it doesn't seem like that's where the blame lies for this one.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Sakamoto didn't have control over the presentation layer or gameplay mechanics. He handed out the plans for the game, and that was it. Details about Samus' height or the size of her tits probably weren't specified and he probably let it slide after it had been dedicated to already.
The problem isn't so much her already-established zero suit, though - yeah, her pygmy height plays a part, but it's mostly a problem of personality.
Also, re: Samus's alien upbringing, one thing I really liked from Echoes or Corruption (can't remember where it first appeared) was how you could go in the ship and use the controls there to open comms and such, and the interface was all in Chozo runes.
Sakamoto didn't have control over the presentation layer or gameplay mechanics. He handed out the plans for the game, and that was it. Details about Samus' height or the size of her tits probably weren't specified and he probably let it slide after it had been dedicated to already.
Her current look is from Zero Mission, which I'm sure he had more than a passing interest in the final look. We are talking about a dude that ended up making Retro change the style of Samus out of her suit. Look at the endings of Prime and Prime 2 for proof. You're being too naive if you think Sakamoto didn't have his hand in every part of this project and every other after Gunpei died.
Remember when Samus was supposed to be like 6'4" out of her suit?
those were the days.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Y'know, we can't keep repeating the argument in this thread. I only brought up the video I did last page because it was a new, refreshing take, and had elements to it that apply to more than Other M. We know she's suppose to be tall, we know Sakamoto is a hack.
The worst part, watching this, is that it looks like a fun game, but I wouldn't be able to get passed the storyline and cutscenes, which are painful.
It feels like a squandered and wasted opportunity, and I am a huge metroid fan.
Eh, I've been able to bruteforce my way through a game even though it had a bad story or invasive cutscenes. But I mean, the gameplay has to be GREAT.
Other M looks like it'll get that pass, but it doesn't mean the bad qualities are okay.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Personally, after the barrage of cutscenes you're subjected to in the first hour of the game, I played the rest of it with my headphones on, listening to music or podcasts or whatever. That way I had to only read the awfulness.
I was sort of excited for it prior to release, as I've played through every other metroid game multiple times, but after impressions came in it sort of fell off my radar. I am wondering if I should give it a shot, but it really is full of the sort of heavy handed ineffective storytelling I really dislike. Which sucks, because metroid was always really good for implying narration and showing, but not telling, through environmental cues.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Well, I did just play for almost an entire hour without being interrupted by HORRIBLE cutscenes.
The game pulls back the cutscenes quite a bit when you actually get to explore the sectors. There are just some parts you have to endure from time to time. Well and the ending, according to my sources
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited September 2011
the real crime is that there's no memorable music in the game (at least not that I'm aware of) so you really might as well play with your own music running in the background
the real crime is that there's no memorable music in the game (at least not that I'm aware of) so you really might as well play with your own music running in the background
There is music, it's actually good, it's just REALLY REALLY QUIET and I can't turn it's volume up!
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
the real crime is that there's no memorable music in the game (at least not that I'm aware of) so you really might as well play with your own music running in the background
There is music, it's actually good, it's just REALLY REALLY QUIET and I can't turn it's volume up!
I dunno, I usually remember at least a couple of tracks from every Metroid game (not counting handheld Metroids)
I just listened to the soundtrack and all the Sector main themes (the ones you'll here most the game) are exactly the same track with some variations. I kinda like them but they are very minimalistic and forgettable. Certainly nothing like Brinstar, Phendrana Drifts, Bryyo, Sky Town, and all the other fantastic Metroid music.
the real crime is that there's no memorable music in the game (at least not that I'm aware of) so you really might as well play with your own music running in the background
There is music, it's actually good, it's just REALLY REALLY QUIET and I can't turn it's volume up!
I dunno, I usually remember at least a couple of tracks from every Metroid game (not counting handheld Metroids)
I just listened to the soundtrack and all the Sector main themes (the ones you'll here most the game) are exactly the same track with some variations. I kinda like them but they are very minimalistic and forgettable. Certainly nothing like Brinstar, Phendrana Drifts, Bryyo, Sky Town, and all the other fantastic Metroid music.
I dislike most of Prime's music unfortunately. In particular, the synth choirs and Theremin kits annoy me. But I have to have a bit of respect for it, because somebody told me to go back and play Super Metroid one more time and listen more carefully, and it's actually true to that game for the source material. It just sounds so...cheap to me.
I'd buy "iconic", "classic", or "recognizable", but come on, "best designed"? No.
Although I'm playing ME2 for the first time this weekend, and FemShep is basically what I think Samus should be, with a more modern suit.
Also, I know this is heresy, but...
Armcannons are stupid, a product of late 80's/early 90's aesthetic, along with shoulder pads. Look, even Megaman could turn his mega buster into a hand when called for. I can't think of any situations in which an opposable thumb would be a good tradeoff. It's a good thing Samus can wall jump and takes no fall damage, because I'm pretty sure a long ladder in a narrow shaft would be a full-stop otherwise.
I'd buy "iconic", "classic", or "recognizable", but come on, "best designed"? No.
Although I'm playing ME2 for the first time this weekend, and FemShep is basically what I think Samus should be, with a more modern suit.
Also, I know this is heresy, but...
Armcannons are stupid, a product of late 80's/early 90's aesthetic, along with shoulder pads. Look, even Megaman could turn his mega buster into a hand when called for. I can't think of any situations in which an opposable thumb would be a good tradeoff. It's a good thing Samus can wall jump and takes no fall damage, because I'm pretty sure a long ladder in a narrow shaft would be a full-stop otherwise.
Fusion disagrees.
EDIT: And the normal Power Suit actually lacks the bulky shoulder-spheres.
The Varia Suit adds them as, according to a few sources, places to put heat regulation devices.
MechMantis on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2011
The color scheme alone, red and yellow, is kind of crap. I saw some pretty sweet fan art somewhere of a red/white Samus which, just like with Iron Man, looked significantly better than the standard.
Her design is iconic, of course, just like Superman's costume, but that doesn't mean it's any good.
It's a good thing Samus can wall jump and takes no fall damage, because I'm pretty sure a long ladder in a narrow shaft would be a full-stop otherwise.
No see, that's why she can magic her armor off and has a skin-tight suit underneath. For ladders, and crawlspaces, and other places with tight camera angles.
Dartboy on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think that if a character is to stay relevant, that their design shouldn't be tied to the era it was born in. That's all. Her design isn't a violation of that aesthetic, it's a violation of modern aesthetic. I meant to quote SyphonBlue who earlier suggested Samus had the best designed armor ever.
Also, the original powersuit still had shoulder pads, just not the rounded Varia suit ones.
I'm not sure what your point is. Those historical shoulder pads don't look anything like Samus's. Hers don't fold down over her shoulders, they stick straight out and given their size relative to her head or waist, that doesn't make any sense. Then again, Samus' physiology inside the suit has always been bizarre. Where is her armpit located in that picture? What about the angle of her hips? Literally my only complaint about Prime was that they started with the suit and animated it, instead of animating a person wearing the suit. They modeled the suit and put a human head in the helmet. It's really obvious if you look at her stance in the elevator scenes.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
The worst part, watching this, is that it looks like a fun game, but I wouldn't be able to get passed the storyline and cutscenes, which are painful.
It feels like a squandered and wasted opportunity, and I am a huge metroid fan.
I think the sentiment is pretty universal among Metroid fans. I hope whoever was ultimately responsible for this disaster stays far, far away from the franchise going forward.
Retro did such an amazing job with the property... and then this... Other M crap.. is just a total 180. Gunpei Yokoi must be rolling screw attacking in his grave.
Getting off the suit discussion for a moment, I think it would be really cool to play a 3D Metroid game where you had a configurable suit - Chozo upgrades would either turn you into an lumbering powerhouse tank or an agile short-range ninja.
I'm not sure what your point is. Those historical shoulder pads don't look anything like Samus's. Hers don't fold down over her shoulders, they stick straight out and given their size relative to her head or waist, that doesn't make any sense. Then again, Samus' physiology inside the suit has always been bizarre. Where is her armpit located in that picture? What about the angle of her hips? Literally my only complaint about Prime was that they started with the suit and animated it, instead of animating a person wearing the suit. They modeled the suit and put a human head in the helmet. It's really obvious if you look at her stance in the elevator scenes.
The point is that they're similar. Look at the Lorica Segmentata specifically.
Depends on the variety as for folding down. The point of the first image was that big "shoulder pads" are not a 80's/90's aesthetic, that they've been a part of armor for centuries. The point of the second, was that the shape sometimes ends up similar to the default Power Suit's
As for the other complaints... I'm not seeing it. I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing it.
EDIT: As for the arm cannon, without it, we end up with this
MechMantis on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think that if a character is to stay relevant, that their design shouldn't be tied to the era it was born in. That's all. Her design isn't a violation of that aesthetic, it's a violation of modern aesthetic. I meant to quote SyphonBlue who earlier suggested Samus had the best designed armor ever.
Also, the original powersuit still had shoulder pads, just not the rounded Varia suit ones.
That is absurd. Updating a look is one thing, but changing the theme is a huge mistake. People who maintain a connection to a character over a long period of time do so because the character represents an era, or the era is part of the draw. Look at what happened with Marvel comics when they started a bunch of shit in the 90's like X-Men 200X or whatever. They abandoned a lot of classic looks (entire overhauls, not just "change the red to blue" kind of stuff) and people were sick of it all. "Modern aesthetic" is a bullshit phrase in this regard.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I find the idea of changing Samus' suit design just because it looks too "80s" is pretty silly. Superman has had the same costume for what, 60 years? And it's pajamas with a cape. Samus' suit looks the way it does because that's how it looks. It's iconic, just like Mario's outfit. And it's also supposed to be a crazy future-suit, so who cares if it has shoulder pads and crap like that? It's supposed to be this hugely powerful suit of armor, not some useless skintight spandex. It should look a little bulky and powerful.
Getting off the suit discussion for a moment, I think it would be really cool to play a 3D Metroid game where you had a configurable suit - Chozo upgrades would either turn you into an lumbering powerhouse tank or an agile short-range ninja.
If the people now handling the Metroid property displayed any real aptitude, I could see this being specactularly awesome. Just jog down the timeline several decades to where Samus is ancient and have her training up a cadre of new bounty hunters (the Chozo are supposed to be more or less gone, right?) to take her place. Add in some skill trees for using progression-necessary items, work in the Chozo lore with being adapted to multiple species and a new beginning, and voila, Metroid game which still does all the exploration stuff but lets you kit out in the way you want. And just for grins, they could even let you pick different races and get different racial traits.
Too bad they made Other M, so the chances of seeing anything other than more hammered crap is pretty low.
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
The PED suit from MP3 looked slick, especially as the game progressed and you looked like a pulsing purple phazon bomb. Also, the Dark Suit from MP2 was cool, rather different compared to other suits in the series.
But I don't think any of them managed the same 'holy shit' factor as the first time you got the phazon suit in the first Prime. Black never fails to look good. Now I want to play all the games again.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Having new suits is fine. It seems like pretty much every Metroid game adds a suit and I'm totally okay with that. Samus' suit is supposed to be super-advanced and adaptable anyway, so it makes sense, both logically and in terms of traditional Metroid game progression, to get a new suit for a new kind of threat.
But scrapping the designs of the standard variants just doesn't make any sense. It's not like they have to come out with new designs to compete with all those other Metroid games out there. Plus, there are good reasons something like a spear has had the same fundamental design for the last hojillion years: when something works, you keep it that way. Otherwise, the next thing you know is that each of Samus' suits will feature an increasingly ridiculous number of belts. Do we really want that?
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
How many times has Nintendo gone to the Fusion suit design since it came out? Oh right, it's been abandoned. Because people hate arbitrary change like that.
And by the way, the arm cannon thing is more than a matter of costume design. It's the weapon she uses. Link uses a sword, Superman uses his fists and laser eyes, Wolverine has his claws, Ash Katchem uses pokeballs. You don't fuck with any of that shit. The weapon is way more important than the costume.
I'd like to note, that in fusion, when clinging to bars on the ceiling, Samus actually CAN use her arm cannon arm to cling to the bars, so I'm pretty sure it can shift around, just like how the missiles work, into something that can grab, so she's not REALLY handicapped a hand.
M A G I K A Z A M
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Henroid, the Fusion suit was abandoned because it looked like ass to everyone not because change is inherently bad. That's a ridiculous argument.
Also, I'm not talking about radically altering the entire aesthetic of the suit. I'm thinking more along the lines of this to this.
The post I made about the making the suit more Chozo like is something I think would be really cool to see, but I'd agree that's it's not really necessary or in the cards for the series. But I still think streamlining the suit (and keeping the iconic red helmet/chestpiece is a desirable outcome.
And yes, keep the arm cannon - it's the weapon she uses, I agree, but I'd rather see it be something that folds away or retracts or otherwise exposes her hand when not in use - it can't be easy to control a ship one handed when you have two hands.
Posts
Also, re: Samus's alien upbringing, one thing I really liked from Echoes or Corruption (can't remember where it first appeared) was how you could go in the ship and use the controls there to open comms and such, and the interface was all in Chozo runes.
Her current look is from Zero Mission, which I'm sure he had more than a passing interest in the final look. We are talking about a dude that ended up making Retro change the style of Samus out of her suit. Look at the endings of Prime and Prime 2 for proof. You're being too naive if you think Sakamoto didn't have his hand in every part of this project and every other after Gunpei died.
Remember when Samus was supposed to be like 6'4" out of her suit?
those were the days.
which was already addressed.
THAT'S MY EXCUSE.
I'm glad you're okay dude.
Either way, METROIDS. Specifically Other M. I'm considering trying to run through it again.
God help me.
It feels like a squandered and wasted opportunity, and I am a huge metroid fan.
Eh, I've been able to bruteforce my way through a game even though it had a bad story or invasive cutscenes. But I mean, the gameplay has to be GREAT.
Other M looks like it'll get that pass, but it doesn't mean the bad qualities are okay.
The game pulls back the cutscenes quite a bit when you actually get to explore the sectors. There are just some parts you have to endure from time to time. Well and the ending, according to my sources
There is music, it's actually good, it's just REALLY REALLY QUIET and I can't turn it's volume up!
I dunno, I usually remember at least a couple of tracks from every Metroid game (not counting handheld Metroids)
I just listened to the soundtrack and all the Sector main themes (the ones you'll here most the game) are exactly the same track with some variations. I kinda like them but they are very minimalistic and forgettable. Certainly nothing like Brinstar, Phendrana Drifts, Bryyo, Sky Town, and all the other fantastic Metroid music.
I dislike most of Prime's music unfortunately. In particular, the synth choirs and Theremin kits annoy me. But I have to have a bit of respect for it, because somebody told me to go back and play Super Metroid one more time and listen more carefully, and it's actually true to that game for the source material. It just sounds so...cheap to me.
For those who don't know what a Thermin kit is, they make "alien music":
Some songs in Prime are just ace though.
I'd buy "iconic", "classic", or "recognizable", but come on, "best designed"? No.
Although I'm playing ME2 for the first time this weekend, and FemShep is basically what I think Samus should be, with a more modern suit.
Also, I know this is heresy, but...
Armcannons are stupid, a product of late 80's/early 90's aesthetic, along with shoulder pads. Look, even Megaman could turn his mega buster into a hand when called for. I can't think of any situations in which an opposable thumb would be a good tradeoff. It's a good thing Samus can wall jump and takes no fall damage, because I'm pretty sure a long ladder in a narrow shaft would be a full-stop otherwise.
Fusion disagrees.
EDIT: And the normal Power Suit actually lacks the bulky shoulder-spheres.
The Varia Suit adds them as, according to a few sources, places to put heat regulation devices.
Her design is iconic, of course, just like Superman's costume, but that doesn't mean it's any good.
No see, that's why she can magic her armor off and has a skin-tight suit underneath. For ladders, and crawlspaces, and other places with tight camera angles.
Which is the era Samus came out of? How is her design somehow in violation of things?
Also, the original powersuit still had shoulder pads, just not the rounded Varia suit ones.
Yes.
Now where else have we seen shoulder pads somewhat similar to those.
I think the sentiment is pretty universal among Metroid fans. I hope whoever was ultimately responsible for this disaster stays far, far away from the franchise going forward.
Retro did such an amazing job with the property... and then this... Other M crap.. is just a total 180. Gunpei Yokoi must be rolling screw attacking in his grave.
The point is that they're similar. Look at the Lorica Segmentata specifically.
or better yet have another image.
Depends on the variety as for folding down. The point of the first image was that big "shoulder pads" are not a 80's/90's aesthetic, that they've been a part of armor for centuries. The point of the second, was that the shape sometimes ends up similar to the default Power Suit's
As for the other complaints... I'm not seeing it. I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing it.
EDIT: As for the arm cannon, without it, we end up with this
That is absurd. Updating a look is one thing, but changing the theme is a huge mistake. People who maintain a connection to a character over a long period of time do so because the character represents an era, or the era is part of the draw. Look at what happened with Marvel comics when they started a bunch of shit in the 90's like X-Men 200X or whatever. They abandoned a lot of classic looks (entire overhauls, not just "change the red to blue" kind of stuff) and people were sick of it all. "Modern aesthetic" is a bullshit phrase in this regard.
If the people now handling the Metroid property displayed any real aptitude, I could see this being specactularly awesome. Just jog down the timeline several decades to where Samus is ancient and have her training up a cadre of new bounty hunters (the Chozo are supposed to be more or less gone, right?) to take her place. Add in some skill trees for using progression-necessary items, work in the Chozo lore with being adapted to multiple species and a new beginning, and voila, Metroid game which still does all the exploration stuff but lets you kit out in the way you want. And just for grins, they could even let you pick different races and get different racial traits.
Too bad they made Other M, so the chances of seeing anything other than more hammered crap is pretty low.
But I don't think any of them managed the same 'holy shit' factor as the first time you got the phazon suit in the first Prime. Black never fails to look good. Now I want to play all the games again.
But scrapping the designs of the standard variants just doesn't make any sense. It's not like they have to come out with new designs to compete with all those other Metroid games out there. Plus, there are good reasons something like a spear has had the same fundamental design for the last hojillion years: when something works, you keep it that way. Otherwise, the next thing you know is that each of Samus' suits will feature an increasingly ridiculous number of belts. Do we really want that?
And by the way, the arm cannon thing is more than a matter of costume design. It's the weapon she uses. Link uses a sword, Superman uses his fists and laser eyes, Wolverine has his claws, Ash Katchem uses pokeballs. You don't fuck with any of that shit. The weapon is way more important than the costume.
Also, Samus is human, right? I don't know many 6 foot 4 women.
I kinda want to.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
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Mostly human.
Got some upgrades from the Chozo for speed, strength, endurance, jumping, and the like.
Why I fear the ocean.
Also, I'm not talking about radically altering the entire aesthetic of the suit. I'm thinking more along the lines of this to this.
The post I made about the making the suit more Chozo like is something I think would be really cool to see, but I'd agree that's it's not really necessary or in the cards for the series. But I still think streamlining the suit (and keeping the iconic red helmet/chestpiece is a desirable outcome.
And yes, keep the arm cannon - it's the weapon she uses, I agree, but I'd rather see it be something that folds away or retracts or otherwise exposes her hand when not in use - it can't be easy to control a ship one handed when you have two hands.