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I hate the ignore function

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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    naporeon wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    Yes, and I am not asking how that applies to false analogies.

    I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
    You'd still be able to see what they were posting, and if you posted the same thing a few posts down, we could call you retarded without you having the "oh, he's on my ignore list" crutch to lean on. People will just ignore someone, instead of posting pictures of themselves adding people to their ignore lists, or saying "so ignored" and such.
    Right.

    But I'm asking what is being hurt in this instance.

    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
    It's a change in the attitude of forumers, where instead of "oh, I disagree with him, and here's why..." they just stick people on ignore lists because they don't like what they have to say. It will make people with unpopular opinions unable to effectively participate in the forums (and frankly, we have enough of a problem with that without the ignore function), and it will cause a lot of really retarded meta-discussion about who's on whose ignore list. What's being hurt is the whole fucking forum.

    And getting rid of the ignore list doesn't remove your ability to completely ignore them; if I were interested in doing that, we'd have to brainwash the entire forum.

    Thanatos on
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    EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    naporeon wrote: »

    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?

    Here's a fun tidbit: Some Alternative forum with 93 thousand posters utilizes an ignore feature. Someone may want to warn them of their inherent danger.
    Thanatos wrote: »
    It's a change in the attitude of forumers, where instead of "oh, I disagree with him, and here's why..." they just stick people on ignore lists because they don't like what they have to say. It will make people with unpopular opinions unable to effectively participate in the forums (and frankly, we have enough of a problem with that without the ignore function), and it will cause a lot of really retarded meta-discussion about who's on whose ignore list. What's being hurt is the whole fucking forum.

    By this argument, this thread would be a barren wasteland for all involved.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
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    naporeonnaporeon Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    Yes, and I am not asking how that applies to false analogies.

    I'm asking how you think it could apply here. How would it be any different than my never responding to them directly?
    You'd still be able to see what they were posting, and if you posted the same thing a few posts down, we could call you retarded without you having the "oh, he's on my ignore list" crutch to lean on. People will just ignore someone, instead of posting pictures of themselves adding people to their ignore lists, or saying "so ignored" and such.
    Right.

    But I'm asking what is being hurt in this instance.

    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
    It's a change in the attitude of forumers, where instead of "oh, I disagree with him, and here's why..." they just stick people on ignore lists because they don't like what they have to say. It will make people with unpopular opinions unable to effectively participate in the forums (and frankly, we have enough of a problem with that without the ignore function), and it will cause a lot of really retarded meta-discussion about who's on whose ignore list. What's being hurt is the whole fucking forum.

    And getting rid of the ignore list doesn't remove your ability to completely ignore them; if I were interested in doing that, we'd have to brainwash the entire forum.
    Do you really see people using this just to avoid people they don't agree with? Speaking wholly anecdotally, my precious three ignore slots are used for people who I genuinely can't stand. Whereas people like, say, Defender, whose opinions coincide with mine no more than 5% of the time, and whose argumentative style I often find deceptively sloppy and fallacious, I would never dream of ignoring.

    In my opinion, people not wishing to engage in debate with people they strongly disagree with are going to behave more or less the same, regardless of whether it's with an ignore feature or without. And just how much of the dialogue can be damaged, when each user is limited to three ignores?

    But yeah, the meta thing I can see being annoying. I used to be guilty of that too, until Mani told me to knock it off. Once someone told me it was annoying, I stopped. That simple.

    naporeon on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
    Here's a fun tidbit: Some Alternative forum with 93 thousand posters utilizes an ignore feature. Someone may want to warn them of their inherent danger.
    You know what? You're right.

    Ramius, could you please just change the name of this forum to GameFAQs, since apparently all forums are the same.
    EvilBadman wrote:
    Thanatos wrote: »
    It's a change in the attitude of forumers, where instead of "oh, I disagree with him, and here's why..." they just stick people on ignore lists because they don't like what they have to say. It will make people with unpopular opinions unable to effectively participate in the forums (and frankly, we have enough of a problem with that without the ignore function), and it will cause a lot of really retarded meta-discussion about who's on whose ignore list. What's being hurt is the whole fucking forum.
    By this argument, this thread would be a barren wasteland for all involved.
    I'm not saying it will happen immediately, or that it has already happened, or that it will happen tomorrow. I think a change like that is very slow, and very insidious.

    Thanatos on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
    Here's a fun tidbit: Some Alternative forum with 93 thousand posters utilizes an ignore feature. Someone may want to warn them of their inherent danger.
    You know what? You're right.

    Ramius, could you please just change the name of this forum to GameFAQs, since apparently all forums are the same.

    Hey, on the plus side I guess this means the forum will start collecting some dough from membership fees.

    mcdermott on
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    EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    naporeon wrote: »
    How is my ability to completely ignore someone potentially deleterious to the forum itself, even if done on a wide scale?
    Here's a fun tidbit: Some Alternative forum with 93 thousand posters utilizes an ignore feature. Someone may want to warn them of their inherent danger.
    You know what? You're right.

    Ramius, could you please just change the name of this forum to GameFAQs, since apparently all forums are the same.

    It was Something Awful, and again the point you've missed was the Doomsday Ignore Feature Hypothesis is fear mongering.
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Hey, on the plus side I guess this means the forum will start collecting some dough from membership fees.

    This is exactly why I alluded to the name the first time.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    It was Something Awful, and again the point you've missed was the Doomsday Ignore Feature Hypothesis is fear mongering.

    What you missed is that we have different forumers than SA, (I'm guessing) a different style of discourse than SA, don't charge membership fees like SA, and in general are not SA.

    So whether it's GameFAQs or Something Awful his point remains...all forums are not the same.

    mcdermott on
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    EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    It was Something Awful, and again the point you've missed was the Doomsday Ignore Feature Hypothesis is fear mongering.

    What you missed is that we have different forumers than SA, (I'm guessing) a different style of discourse than SA, don't charge membership fees like SA, and in general are not SA.

    So whether it's GameFAQs or Something Awful his point remains...all forums are not the same.

    The demographics for both forums are generally the same, the discourse and forums structure is strikingly similar, and the membership fee covers their bandwidth bills and discourages people who'd be banned here just as quick as there.

    And I wasn't even arguing that SA is like the PA forums. I was merely pointing out that the ignore feature isn't the Devourer of Boards.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
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    SithDrummerSithDrummer Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Than, you've already said it wouldn't be a problem for D&D ("because the vast majority of us already just ignore anyone we don't want to talk to"), and we've already tackled the issue of douchebaggery ("if they gloat about it, that's a different problem").

    Then you change to the Forum-Devourer track when Yar comes in with:
    Yar wrote: »
    I mean, I agree with Engy that the doomsday scenario isn't immediately likely, but the reasoning is the same nonetheless. You can say that ignoring me doesn't affect me or whatever. But, in D&D, for example, just a few key forumers could choose to ignore one another, and suddenly a good chunk of interesting conversation would be nerfed altogether, and that affects everyone.

    But the general problem is managed by the limit of 3 that Ranius currently has in place, and this specific example is largely dismantled when you realize that the high-class posters in D&D are mature enough to not simply ignore people they disagree with. Those good discussions wouldn't disappear, because the large contributors to those discussions are able to handle the system with wisdom and maturity. Meanwhile, as has always been the case in D&D, the less mature get ostracized, marginalized, and thus are eventually changed or weeded out, for not following the thread or for insufficiently addressing opposing points; there's no reason why this would, or should, somehow change.

    Some have also argued the danger of a permanent change to the forum's integrity and quality due to people talking past one another, but no one has backed this up at all. The simple fact is that, even if there were no limits on the number of ignores one could have at a given time, should it become some kind of disaster, removing it would fix the problem entirely. It's not like the software conditions your mind to disregard certain persons' posts, let alone irreversibly.

    The best argument you have against the ignore function is the one against people posting redundant things. First, this already happens. Any additional risk is mostly minimalized by the limit of 3 ignored users. Further, said risk will be reduced from the ridicule that accompanies not reading the thread. Let the forum's society discourage people from blindly posting their oh-so-original point without checking first.

    tl;dr - VOTE PRO-CHOICE

    SithDrummer on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think the function could be turned into an interesting forum game if we got really bored

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Fuck, I guess I take it all back. I just now added somebody to my ignore list for the first time. One of our local "super-trolls" who somehow has eluded a perma-ban...I have no idea how.

    EDIT: Actually, I still wouldn't mind seeing the feature go. I'll not complain if it does. But we have it, and I finally found somebody who is actually worth using it on.

    mcdermott on
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    hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Quick question, that maybe has already been answered somewhere in this thread:

    Is there a way for a user to see who is ignoring him?

    hambone on
    Just a bunch of intoxicated pigeons.
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    RamiusRamius Joined: July 19, 2000 Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited March 2007
    nope.

    Ramius on
    1zxt8dhasaon.png
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    Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited March 2007
    Ramius wrote: »
    nope.

    nope what

    Garlic Bread on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Keith wrote: »
    Ramius wrote: »
    nope.
    nope what
    I swear to God, Keith, if I find out you're ignoring Hambone, I'm going to ban you so hard.
    hambone wrote: »
    Quick question, that maybe has already been answered somewhere in this thread:

    Is there a way for a user to see who is ignoring him?

    Thanatos on
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    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    ...

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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    RamiusRamius Joined: July 19, 2000 Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited March 2007
    I swear to god if that is a lame meta-joke about the ignore function I will put you on every single forumer's ignore list for a week.

    Ramius on
    1zxt8dhasaon.png
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    RamiusRamius Joined: July 19, 2000 Administrator, ClubPA admin
    edited March 2007
    heh, looks like Thanatos beat me to the punch on that one.

    Ramius on
    1zxt8dhasaon.png
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    Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    Ramius wrote: »
    heh, looks like Thanatos beat me to the punch on that one.

    I like your idea better.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I still think that seeing people's inevtiable responses to those they wish they could ignore are part of the forum. Give them the ignore and some of that goes away.

    Yar on
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I fail to see how natural discourse would halt with the ignore function, because when it becomes apparent that somebody is ignoring someone else, a statement is implied about that somebody, namely, that they don't wish to hear from that someone else. Therefore, that somebody's opinions are still communicated, and moreover, we don't waste time trying to change them, as we have a physical demonstration of the rejection of someone's point of view.

    In sum, business as usual.

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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