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[mini-Phalla] of Angels - Village Victory!

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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    The difference is that the mafia isn't voting randomly, and can use voting for characters to hide that better.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys where am i? its dark in hereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2011
    I feel like I have kicked off a huge can of worms.

    I freely admit that I didn't want to vote off a player as I don't know anyone and it felt a mean mean to pick out a name, and so to dither in my decision making I went for a character name. I didn't think anyone else would do this so it wouldn't make a huge difference.

    Shiny New Toys on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    blahmcblah wrote:
    But if we vote for a character, don't we have a better shot at not accidentally killing a villager? Although I'll freely admit that I have no idea what I'm doing. Also Robert Patterson because fuck that vampire guy.

    this is understandable logic, which could be included to, say, a village vig. The reason that it is actually not good for the village to not vote someone out (or kill someone), even though it's probably going to be a villager, is that these actions are to a certain extent village controlled. Unless there is some strange manipulation, the mafia will always kill a villager. The village has to be proactive in order to win against the mafia, and that unfortunately means killing innocent villagers via the lynch and the vigilante.

    But here is a question I hadn't thought of

    Does this character list include the mafia's characters, so that it would also be impossible to soul walk into their bodies?

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I feel like I have kicked off a huge can of worms.

    I freely admit that I didn't want to vote off a player as I don't know anyone and it felt a mean mean to pick out a name, and so to dither in my decision making I went for a character name. I didn't think anyone else would do this so it wouldn't make a huge difference.

    day one votes and kill orders suck, because there is not any logic to it. But someone's gotta die!

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    AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    jdarksun wrote:
    One of them can.
    My mistake. Still, it would mean a vote kill that only kills mafia (except for one, so it isn't necessarily proof of villagerness) if it does work like that
    SLyM wrote:
    The difference is that the mafia isn't voting randomly, and can use voting for characters to hide that better.
    They are only not voting randomly if they get involved trying to save someone, unless they're dumb. And then it still makes no difference.

    We've been going on about this for a while but for day 1 I still see no difference. If player/character MAFIA_X is being voted out and instead there's votes on player/character SOMETHINGELSE_Y to save MAFIA_X, it matters not if that's a player or character.

    The semantics discussion aside obviously I'm against random voting where inappropriate.

    Alegis on
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    Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys where am i? its dark in hereRegistered User regular
    Langly wrote:
    I feel like I have kicked off a huge can of worms.

    I freely admit that I didn't want to vote off a player as I don't know anyone and it felt a mean mean to pick out a name, and so to dither in my decision making I went for a character name. I didn't think anyone else would do this so it wouldn't make a huge difference.

    day one votes and kill orders suck, because there is not any logic to it. But someone's gotta die!


    Okay, biting bullet
    Fabian

    Segatai

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    MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote:
    Can an unpossessed character be eliminated via the vote?

    Also,

    What happens in the case of a tie?

    An unpossessed character could win. Everyone dies in a tie.

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    MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Langly wrote:
    Does this character list include the mafia's characters, so that it would also be impossible to soul walk into their bodies?

    All Characters in the game are on the list.

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    AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    So that means the character wins the vote, but the character isn't removed?

    off for a bit, boardgame night. gonna own some internal threats in space alert awww yeahhhhh

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    I think voting for players is more useful than characters for voting record reasons and have said such, voting characters could work out fine as well. The problem is when we have a mixture of both-if we do that we don't even really know who is in the vote lead.

    PSN SeGaTai
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote:
    Can an unpossessed character be eliminated via the vote?

    Also,

    What happens in the case of a tie?

    An unpossessed character could win. Everyone dies in a tie.

    ........

    ...........

    Everyone?


    The ability for mafia to not soul-walk out of a character does make character-voting sound appealing, but there are just too many "if"s and requirements for that to really be useful.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Oh, it certainly doesn't work for a long-term strategy. But unless we wanna bank on luck landing us somebody red, it's a nice way to avoid killing a (mostly) green player.

    Although we still have just as grant a chance (presumably?) of killing a special.

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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    Initially I kind of liked the idea of charecter voting but everyone brings up good points about the vote records. Which makes me wish I was better at anaylizing them :S

    So since I dont have any strong grudges I will placeholder Void Slayer since I knew you starting the Papel vote on me would get me killed (whether or not you realised it at the time)

    I do have half a mind to vote Shiny for having a broken avatar even though the bug has been fixed :<

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Vote records are one of those funny things that everyone (mafia and village) is paranoid about, but actually rarely make a difference in the game.

    I find it amusing from a meta-perspective.

    @jdarksun: That's kind of what I meant...

    kime on
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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    STRIKE HAS BEEN CHANGED TO JUST S!

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    you have to use just the letter s for strike, now.

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    WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    Kime should not be amused.

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    Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys where am i? its dark in hereRegistered User regular
    @bedlam

    Is this better?

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Can the bodiless vote?

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    MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote:
    Can the bodiless vote?

    No.

    And to clarify, everyone that is tied dies in a tie vote. Anyone that wins the vote will be eliminated as per the OP, even if that is a character not linked to a forum player.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Kime should not be amused.

    And yet...

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    CapfalconCapfalcon Tunnel Snakes Rule Capital WastelandRegistered User regular
    I just got an hilarious image of someone winning the vote on the character name AND forum name.

    They're double dead!

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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    @bedlam

    Is this better?
    Yes. Thank you. :)

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    uh....going to go with corvidae for betraying me needlessly in the aborted brass phalla

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    corvidaecorvidae Registered User regular
    Welp, I remember reading that some abilities are tied to characters, so I didn't want to run the risk of losing any good abilities that the village could potentially possess.

    I understand the day 1 vote is particularily random, and we could lose special players, the characters are there for us all.

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    corvidaecorvidae Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Sorry Lang!

    The mafia would have gotten ya anyways in that one.

    Although to be fair, I understand the grudge.

    corvidae on
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Capfalcon wrote:
    I just got an hilarious image of someone winning the vote on the character name AND forum name.

    They're double dead!

    While I get that it was a joke, I would just like to note that there is only one vote. Character votes are just added to that particular player, assuming the character is possessed.

    That's the danger of the character vote. If I have 10 votes, Capfalcon has 2, but his character has 9, he dies. Despite the fact that publicly it looks like I should

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    corvidaecorvidae Registered User regular
    Well, gonna throw out my random vote with
    white zinfandel

    Mostly cause I like shiraz + malbecs more.

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    CapfalconCapfalcon Tunnel Snakes Rule Capital WastelandRegistered User regular
    Cythraul, for day 1ing me in Phalla of Brass.

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    BedlamBedlam Registered User regular
    The funny part is I said you or taya, and if we had done taya we could have gotten our win condition way early.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    This is a mechanics heavy phalla which is my favourite type. We need a Plan, so here is a Plan

    Everyone pair up with the person next to you (1 & 2, 3 & 4, etc. #21 gets a pass for now or 19-21 can do a 3-way rotation) in signup order and, privately, reveal your body name to your partner. Then, attempt to soul walk into each other's bodies.

    Possible scenarios:
    mafia-mafia: will both lie about results, can't be distinguished from villager-villager without more data
    villager-mafia: mafia will lie about his current body, there is some probability that the mafia will choose an empty body, otherwise soul walk will fail
    villager-villager (or the walking mafia): both will switch successfully

    Because there are a bunch of 2 player swaps going on, move prevention can only occur if
    - someone is prevented from soul walking at all (mafia ability?)
    - a villager is given a non-empty body by the mafia
    - the walking mafia attempts to move into a pair to create confusion

    Now, to isolate the cases where the mafia lied about their bodies in order to fake soul walking, tomorrow everybody with an odd player number will attempt to move back into their old body. Any successful moves indicate lies by the other player. The third day the evens can move but by that time we might have to change plans

    Now, there's potential confusion coming from the mafia kills creating information gaps. Instead of a fixed pairing, I could assign a random pairing so the mafia at least couldn't target their confusion (without also risking exposure)

    Ideally this should point out any players unable/unwilling to move, at which point we kill them and begin hunting the last one left. If not enough mafia are found, we can then test for mafia pairs easily enough.

    Character vote targets should release to prevent death, we'll then find you a body

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    CapfalconCapfalcon Tunnel Snakes Rule Capital WastelandRegistered User regular
    Bedlam wrote:
    The funny part is I said you or taya, and if we had done taya we could have gotten our win condition way early.

    I KNOW!

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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    The issue with that is it removes any ability for the village to use any of their powers after day 1.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Not really. Day 1 the moves occur (and maybe powers are still active?) and day 2 they're disabled, but day 3 they're all back

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    Sir FabulousSir Fabulous Malevolent Squid God Registered User regular
    Capfalcon. Forever and always.

    pickup-sig.php?name=Orthanc

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Hrm

    I can't decide if I like this plan or not

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    WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Your insides Let me show you themRegistered User regular
    I am not particularly keen on the idea of hamstringing all the special (bodies) except mafia for two days.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Also keep in mind that all character based powers work only on characters. Vigs might not even target a character that is occupied. Same with seers

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    I think the problem with this plan is that it's too open, to many possibilities for the mafia to try and hamstring it over the 3 days you need for it to actually produce results. Why specials are good (and why I don't like not having them for a day) is it's one of the few things where the mafia don't have more knowledge than the average villager

    PSN SeGaTai
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    blahmcblahblahmcblah You pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly. Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote:
    Sure - there's a 30% chance of not hitting anyone at all. But you don't get a voting record, because we don't have the correlation of player to character (and it can change from night to night). Since most mafia are found that way, it's a detriment to the village.

    Ok, that makes sense. I've played Werewolf like twice IRL, so that's about all I know about this game.

    kuhlmeye wrote:
    Also, the guy you would be looking for is Robert Pattinson. So...

    Close enough. :P

    I freely admit that I didn't want to vote off a player as I don't know anyone and it felt a mean mean to pick out a name...

    This was my reasoning as well, but I just realized I do have a grudge against someone. Capfalcon, for killing our game of BSG in the middle of a crisis and not telling anyone who was playing the game that it had ended.

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