It depends a lot on how they implemented them in the database. The problem with bag slots is that they store quite a bit of data per item (enchants, durability, etc). My guess is that each bag slot is a new database row, which multiplied by ~11 million players times whatever the average number of characters per account is (keeping in mind you can roll up to 50 total), is pretty damn huge (and there are likely rows/whatever for each potential slot, regardless of whether you actually have the best bags possible). The reason void storage works is all they have to store is a character id and item id. That's pretty small in comparison.
I imagine macros are just a single string per macro. Strings are probably a little more costly than numbers, but it's probably less data overall than adding bag slots or whatever. So it probably depends on if their databases can handle it. It may also not be a size concern but a speed one - the more rows/columns you add, the slower the queries will be. At some point you're going to hit an unacceptable number.
Right, I know how databases work. I'm just wondering out loud how feasible it would be to get some more macro slots. Keep in mind that macros originally weren't stored server side at all. At some point a few years back they added that in, where there was nothing before, so I'm curious what effect increasing the limit modestly would have. Depending on how it's set up, increasing the limit wouldn't necessarily increase the space used by (number of characters) * (number of macro slots added) * (size of macro data). I kind of doubt that increasing the limit would suddenly have everyone going out and adding N more macros and filling up that extra space.
Macros would have to have at least 3 fields, besides the account/character keys: Name (15 or so characters), Macro text (255 characters), Icon (probably some sort of integer ID).
I only see that as being possible if you were to macro /startattack into every single ability.
And if that is the case, you can easily lower that down to your 3 most used abilities. Then you have Trinket(s), and some special abilities. And if you aren't activating them seperately for specific reasons you are going to want to stack those, so that takes up one Macro. Then you have special condition Macros like Divine Shield/Ice Block/Deflection activate/cancelaura, or HoP /cancelaura. So now we are up to 5-6 Macros. Randomized Mount Macro I can see, thats another one making 7ish. What else is there?
Edit: I'm thinking in a one spec space. Since I only do one role on each and every one of my characters I really only think to make macros for that spec (Tanking on Warrior, Healing on Priest, DPS on Hunter). Yea I guess I can see the Macro thing getting filled up on a few hybrid classes that utilize both specs equally.
Just the game's worn, 7 year-old engine warrants a lot of macros. See the last page where someone was asking about making a /startattack macro for Mutilate.
Now imagine playing a non-one button spec and having to set those up for the various abilites you might be hitting when you switch targets. And for two specs. Or mouseover macros for healing/support spells. Already you've used up a ton of slots with macros that don't even actually do anything interesting -- they just overcome the fact that the base UI isn't really set up for ideal play.
Glorious! I've been pondering about taking a break from the game in January or early February after we've finished our Progression. Announcing to my friends that as soon as I get that Whirlwind Trinket I am no longer raiding on a set schedule and will only log on to do 5-mans and LFR at my leisure.
Just the game's worn, 7 year-old engine warrants a lot of macros. See the last page where someone was asking about making a /startattack macro for Mutilate.
Now imagine playing a non-one button spec and having to set those up for the various abilites you might be hitting when you switch targets. And for two specs. Or mouseover macros for healing/support spells. Already you've used up a ton of slots with macros that don't even actually do anything interesting -- they just overcome the fact that the base UI isn't really set up for ideal play.
Yea, but that /startattack deal. Every class has 3 abilities they hit at least once every 5 seconds. At any given point in time you are going to be hitting one of those 3 buttons on a target switch, so limiting /startattack to just those 3 reduces the amount of macros. If you are indeed using macro space for those lower priority attacks in your rotation.
I don't care what it does to their database, if they expect me to buy an expansion who's selling point is an 11th class and a 13th race, they better expand my character slots per server.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I also have 5 macros for Tricks of the Trade alone - two set a focus target, two fire the ability, and I have one backup macro for just target of target (since the focus macros cannot be set in-combat I like to have that as a backup in case I forget to change them pre-fight or the person dies or whatever).
There are also things like macros to spam vent info, etc. It's not just abilities.
And then there are abilities that have the same function, but are used under different circumstances. Like blood tap. I have a macro for frost dps, unholy dps, tanking, and pvp.
Focus and assist, ect. All my character macro slots are full and my general slots are clogged to hell.
Shit, I even have a fishing macro that's pretty awesome. It puts on my fishing hat, my fishing pole, uses the hat to lure my pole, then fishes.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
On character slots:
Their first guess at how they'd fix the character slot thing was the best idea: make it so you have 50 characters across all servers. Then there's no change in storage requirements and the only differences are changing the database code to not freak out when there's more than 10 chars on a server and tweaking the login UI to handle displaying more than 10. I don't see any downsides to this solution.
On macro slots:
Adding more per-character macro slots does mean more space is needed/taken up per character, so they're much less likely to do it. They designed void storage to strip all enchants and stuff so they could just save the item ID instead of that plus the 10 or so other variables attached to a piece of equipment and thus only need to store 4 bytes per slot instead of 40, I can see them being skittish when offering just 6 more macro slots amounts to potentially 1.5kB per character in extra space needed (3 kB if they store it in Unicode).
Personally as a druid all of my slots are filled. From Cat/Bear differences (like Feral Charge and Skull Bash) to locating similar things on the same button (like Dash/Stampeding Roar or Wrath/Starfire/Starsurge or Roots/Cyclone/Hibernate) to actual macros (like NS->HT or making Soothe target the target's target if I'm targetting a friendly) I have a lot of macros.
I don't care what it does to their database, if they expect me to buy an expansion who's selling point is an 11th class and a 13th race, they better expand my character slots per server.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
So, is anyone else shocked that the best possible solution was given at Blizzcon, and they backtracked from that later? :rotate:
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I don't care what it does to their database, if they expect me to buy an expansion who's selling point is an 11th class and a 13th race, they better expand my character slots per server.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
So, is anyone else shocked that the best possible solution was given at Blizzcon, and they backtracked from that later? :rotate:
How did they backtrack?
Edit: Also does anyone remember why they moved macros server side to begin with? Did they give a reason? Was there some exploit or something they were trying to squash?
I don't care what it does to their database, if they expect me to buy an expansion who's selling point is an 11th class and a 13th race, they better expand my character slots per server.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
So, is anyone else shocked that the best possible solution was given at Blizzcon, and they backtracked from that later? :rotate:
Probably because someone is pushing to have extra character slots added to the cash shop.
Yea, but that /startattack deal. Every class has 3 abilities they hit at least once every 5 seconds. At any given point in time you are going to be hitting one of those 3 buttons on a target switch, so limiting /startattack to just those 3 reduces the amount of macros. If you are indeed using macro space for those lower priority attacks in your rotation.
I'm not. I already have to be choosey just to fit in the 18 I have. Keep in mind that "only 3" abilities still eats up 17% of your macro slots, for what should frankly be innate functionality at this point. Plus, you know, separate DPS specs can call for separate /startattacks.
I don't care what it does to their database, if they expect me to buy an expansion who's selling point is an 11th class and a 13th race, they better expand my character slots per server.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
So, is anyone else shocked that the best possible solution was given at Blizzcon, and they backtracked from that later? :rotate:
How did they backtrack?
Edit: Also does anyone remember why they moved macros server side to begin with? Did they give a reason? Was there some exploit or something they were trying to squash?
I assumed it was for player convenience. Playing on a different computer and having no macros was pretty awful.
Although I do recall the last time I logged in from some different computers, it seemed like it fucked up my macros anyway. Like it had some old cached ones that overwrote what the server should have given me.
On macro slots:
Adding more per-character macro slots does mean more space is needed/taken up per character, so they're much less likely to do it. They designed void storage to strip all enchants and stuff so they could just save the item ID instead of that plus the 10 or so other variables attached to a piece of equipment and thus only need to store 4 bytes per slot instead of 40, I can see them being skittish when offering just 6 more macro slots amounts to potentially 1.5kB per character in extra space needed (3 kB if they store it in Unicode).
I know any costs anger the bean counters, but even 100 million characters adding 6 new macros would be less than 200 GB. And I don't think they'd see even close to that many added.
The fact that they added 18 per character way back when didn't seem to cause them too much grief.
What kind of universal macros does everyone use? (ie. Not the character specific ones)
From what I remember, I've got one that spits out my x,y coordinates (useful when I don't bother updating an addon that would tell me), one for targeting the Headless Horseman's Head (obviously only gets used at one time of the year, but I haven't needed the slot so never deleted it), and I think the rest are all dedicated to playing music off my harddrive in place of the game's standard music. I might have others but haven't used them recently enough to remember.
I have a bunch of character-specific castsequence macros (swipe/thrash, chain lightning/fire nova, etc), several /stopcasting ones for interrupts and defensive abilities, stuff for trinket/cooldown management, and then a few for raid communication (mostly to send tells to one of our healers who is deaf.)
ed: oh, and my 'make people go AFK in alterac valley' macro, which I refuse to give up.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
On macro slots:
Adding more per-character macro slots does mean more space is needed/taken up per character, so they're much less likely to do it. They designed void storage to strip all enchants and stuff so they could just save the item ID instead of that plus the 10 or so other variables attached to a piece of equipment and thus only need to store 4 bytes per slot instead of 40, I can see them being skittish when offering just 6 more macro slots amounts to potentially 1.5kB per character in extra space needed (3 kB if they store it in Unicode).
What kind of universal macros does everyone use? (ie. Not the character specific ones)
From what I remember, I've got one that spits out my x,y coordinates (useful when I don't bother updating an addon that would tell me), one for targeting the Headless Horseman's Head (obviously only gets used at one time of the year, but I haven't needed the slot so never deleted it), and I think the rest are all dedicated to playing music off my harddrive in place of the game's standard music. I might have others but haven't used them recently enough to remember.
Just as some examples, a couple /target macros (one generally for an enemy NPC that I need to target and kill, one generally for if I need to target a friendly to see where he is), profession macros (i.e., /cast Prospect Elementium Ore), various encounter directions/explanations/orders (i.e., order for people to stand next to crystals on Baleroc, Ragnaros sons assignments), random companion pet macro, a couple generic macros that I basically copy from and edit for specific characters as needed, and if I'm desperate, spillover character specific macros.
you can turn off lua errors from the options menu, but the "out of range" or "ability still on cooldown" errors that the game pops up in the red text have to be turned off via script
ed: probably tukui is doing this for you
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I have a bunch of character-specific castsequence macros (swipe/thrash, chain lightning/fire nova, etc), several /stopcasting ones for interrupts and defensive abilities, stuff for trinket/cooldown management, and then a few for raid communication (mostly to send tells to one of our healers who is deaf.)
ed: oh, and my 'make people go AFK in alterac valley' macro, which I refuse to give up.
Hi5 Pig, I still have that one too.
I also have a /camp macro that I used to use to get people to log off in Dalaran back when you had to enter from the portal. Was pretty funny seeing 30 people log off at once.
And my infamous /pickpocket macro. I used to keep the best screenshot conversations of people who fall for that doozie.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
We've made slight adjustments to the Valor Point (VP) drops on the 4.3 PTR which testers can now see. In both 10- and 25-player raids, bosses will now drop 100 VP each (down from 115 and 135 respectively). We’ll also be changing Firelands raid bosses to drop 50 VP per kill upon release of the patch.
This change is being made to further emphasize the desire to kill bosses for the items they drop. In the 4.3 raid, tier sets can only be earned from boss drops, and as Raid Finder will allow for just about anyone to get a chance to kill bosses, we think there will be less need for Valor overall. We want to try to match the lower desire for VP with a slightly slower acquisition rate.
We appreciate your thoughts and constructive discussion on how these changes may affect you and your guild once 4.3 is released.
Is it just me, or is the bolded part especially fucking ridiculous?
Well, how would you phrase "we realized this raid teir is gonna be live for a long fucking time before MoP so uh...here's less gear" and still make it sound like something twistedly beneficial.
It just pisses me off that they actually expect people to swallow shitty rationalisations like that. Did all the good PR people get pulled for Titan too?
They're not lowering the cap which means the lowering isn't to slow down loot acquisition but to try to force raiders to do something else besides raid for all their points.
They're not lowering the cap which means the lowering isn't to slow down loot acquisition but to try to force raiders to do something else besides raid for all their points.
Which is hilarious because they stated that raiders wouldn't be forced to do heroics if they managed to do full clears.
So I'm really enjoying Firelands. I just came back about 6 weeks ago and levelled to 85, so admittedly we just glossed over BOT and BWD to clear them a couple times in our new 10 man, but I didn't care for them that much. None of this raid content brings me the joy that say Ulduar did, but Firelands is pretty cool. I like that the fights are mostly very punishing if you don't obey the mechanics. Not all of them, but mostly. I was surprised at how simple Majordomo is after the more complex Alysrazor, but it's still a fun fight imo.
Yeah, it's awesome to not need to bother with the orb phase ever. Plus we have two druids in our raid so we stack up to 13 stacks on the pull (this is normal 10m btw) so he's down to like 50% by the time he goes cat the first time.
Well...for my priest. I have macros for shadow pve, shadow pvp, disc pve, disc pvp, holy pve. Then I used to have macros for certain boss fights, like Vash'j and KT with the weapon equipping/usage, BT with the spine use. It's pretty conceivable to use up all the slots.
Posts
It's awesome. 2.5M damage on spine of deathwing.
Macros would have to have at least 3 fields, besides the account/character keys: Name (15 or so characters), Macro text (255 characters), Icon (probably some sort of integer ID).
Yes.
I don't even see how I could since I use far more than 18 abilities.
And if that is the case, you can easily lower that down to your 3 most used abilities. Then you have Trinket(s), and some special abilities. And if you aren't activating them seperately for specific reasons you are going to want to stack those, so that takes up one Macro. Then you have special condition Macros like Divine Shield/Ice Block/Deflection activate/cancelaura, or HoP /cancelaura. So now we are up to 5-6 Macros. Randomized Mount Macro I can see, thats another one making 7ish. What else is there?
Edit: I'm thinking in a one spec space. Since I only do one role on each and every one of my characters I really only think to make macros for that spec (Tanking on Warrior, Healing on Priest, DPS on Hunter). Yea I guess I can see the Macro thing getting filled up on a few hybrid classes that utilize both specs equally.
Now imagine playing a non-one button spec and having to set those up for the various abilites you might be hitting when you switch targets. And for two specs. Or mouseover macros for healing/support spells. Already you've used up a ton of slots with macros that don't even actually do anything interesting -- they just overcome the fact that the base UI isn't really set up for ideal play.
Glorious! I've been pondering about taking a break from the game in January or early February after we've finished our Progression. Announcing to my friends that as soon as I get that Whirlwind Trinket I am no longer raiding on a set schedule and will only log on to do 5-mans and LFR at my leisure.
Yea, but that /startattack deal. Every class has 3 abilities they hit at least once every 5 seconds. At any given point in time you are going to be hitting one of those 3 buttons on a target switch, so limiting /startattack to just those 3 reduces the amount of macros. If you are indeed using macro space for those lower priority attacks in your rotation.
I was optimistic when they answered the question about it with "We're thinking about allowing you to have all 50 characters on one server" as that would have been awesome, but then the next time they were asked they only answered with "We're looking into it" which worries me.
There are also things like macros to spam vent info, etc. It's not just abilities.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
You're awesome. Thanks!
Focus and assist, ect. All my character macro slots are full and my general slots are clogged to hell.
Shit, I even have a fishing macro that's pretty awesome. It puts on my fishing hat, my fishing pole, uses the hat to lure my pole, then fishes.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Their first guess at how they'd fix the character slot thing was the best idea: make it so you have 50 characters across all servers. Then there's no change in storage requirements and the only differences are changing the database code to not freak out when there's more than 10 chars on a server and tweaking the login UI to handle displaying more than 10. I don't see any downsides to this solution.
On macro slots:
Adding more per-character macro slots does mean more space is needed/taken up per character, so they're much less likely to do it. They designed void storage to strip all enchants and stuff so they could just save the item ID instead of that plus the 10 or so other variables attached to a piece of equipment and thus only need to store 4 bytes per slot instead of 40, I can see them being skittish when offering just 6 more macro slots amounts to potentially 1.5kB per character in extra space needed (3 kB if they store it in Unicode).
Personally as a druid all of my slots are filled. From Cat/Bear differences (like Feral Charge and Skull Bash) to locating similar things on the same button (like Dash/Stampeding Roar or Wrath/Starfire/Starsurge or Roots/Cyclone/Hibernate) to actual macros (like NS->HT or making Soothe target the target's target if I'm targetting a friendly) I have a lot of macros.
So, is anyone else shocked that the best possible solution was given at Blizzcon, and they backtracked from that later? :rotate:
How did they backtrack?
Edit: Also does anyone remember why they moved macros server side to begin with? Did they give a reason? Was there some exploit or something they were trying to squash?
Probably because someone is pushing to have extra character slots added to the cash shop.
Although I do recall the last time I logged in from some different computers, it seemed like it fucked up my macros anyway. Like it had some old cached ones that overwrote what the server should have given me.
I know any costs anger the bean counters, but even 100 million characters adding 6 new macros would be less than 200 GB. And I don't think they'd see even close to that many added.
The fact that they added 18 per character way back when didn't seem to cause them too much grief.
From what I remember, I've got one that spits out my x,y coordinates (useful when I don't bother updating an addon that would tell me), one for targeting the Headless Horseman's Head (obviously only gets used at one time of the year, but I haven't needed the slot so never deleted it), and I think the rest are all dedicated to playing music off my harddrive in place of the game's standard music. I might have others but haven't used them recently enough to remember.
ed: oh, and my 'make people go AFK in alterac valley' macro, which I refuse to give up.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Slight improvement:
#showtooltip Mutilate /startattack /run sfx=GetCVar("Sound_EnableSFX"); /console Sound_EnableSFX 0 /use 10 (or whatever) /run UIErrorsFrame:Clear() /run SetCVar("Sound_EnableSFX",sfx); /cast MutliateStops the annoying "I can't do that yet" sound spam, too.
Ah! Thanks! I need to dig around for some other useful AssAss macros for my Rogue.
Firelands wasn't bad at all. Unlocked the first vendor. Made some cash. Got a nice ring. Not near as bad as say the old BC dailies.
Also, i run tukui, so no error messages. if I want to see them, I just type /error.
ed: probably tukui is doing this for you
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Hi5 Pig, I still have that one too.
I also have a /camp macro that I used to use to get people to log off in Dalaran back when you had to enter from the portal. Was pretty funny seeing 30 people log off at once.
And my infamous /pickpocket macro. I used to keep the best screenshot conversations of people who fall for that doozie.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Is it just me, or is the bolded part especially fucking ridiculous?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
problem solved
People don't want loot or points or whatever
They run the same exact dungeons a hundred times because they enjoy it so goddamn much
Duh
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat