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  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    So are they still rolling out that horrid new NB4G change?
    Yes, they've confirmed it's going to be used in Retard Finder raids. They were also discussing maybe implementing it in 5-mans, but I don't think that's happening in 4.3 (maybe they'll try it in 5.0 since supposedly the system will be able to detect specs and gear needs better, assuming the system goes over well enough overall).

    Aren't they buffing agro too?

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote:
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    So are they still rolling out that horrid new NB4G change?
    Yes, they've confirmed it's going to be used in Retard Finder raids. They were also discussing maybe implementing it in 5-mans, but I don't think that's happening in 4.3 (maybe they'll try it in 5.0 since supposedly the system will be able to detect specs and gear needs better, assuming the system goes over well enough overall).

    Aren't they buffing agro too?
    I don't understand the question. If you mean buffing threat, they already did that.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    So are they still rolling out that horrid new NB4G change?
    Yes, they've confirmed it's going to be used in Retard Finder raids. They were also discussing maybe implementing it in 5-mans, but I don't think that's happening in 4.3 (maybe they'll try it in 5.0 since supposedly the system will be able to detect specs and gear needs better, assuming the system goes over well enough overall).

    Aren't they buffing agro too?
    I don't understand the question. If you mean buffing threat, they already did that.

    Yeah sorry agro generation. I'm typing on my phone. I thought they were buffing it more.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote:
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    forty wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    So are they still rolling out that horrid new NB4G change?
    Yes, they've confirmed it's going to be used in Retard Finder raids. They were also discussing maybe implementing it in 5-mans, but I don't think that's happening in 4.3 (maybe they'll try it in 5.0 since supposedly the system will be able to detect specs and gear needs better, assuming the system goes over well enough overall).

    Aren't they buffing agro too?
    I don't understand the question. If you mean buffing threat, they already did that.

    Yeah sorry agro generation. I'm typing on my phone. I thought they were buffing it more.
    Oh, nope. The patch notes just specify the hotfix they made to threat a few months ago (300%->500%). You won't see any actual change in 4.3.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.
    Don't worry. The worst performers will still continue to get the highest rolls, so the system hasn't actually changed at all.

    Speaking of raids, RF is probably the only chance I'll ever see a 25-man raid again. I haven't logged on to my "raid guild" and seen more than 4 people online at once (including my character) for about a month now. I really do wonder who's going to bother to show up once 4.3 hits.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    forty wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.
    Don't worry. The worst performers will still continue to get the highest rolls, so the system hasn't actually changed at all.

    Speaking of raids, RF is probably the only chance I'll ever see a 25-man raid again. I haven't logged on to my "raid guild" and seen more than 4 people online at once (including my character) for about a month now. I really do wonder who's going to bother to show up once 4.3 hits.

    My guild still runs 25s, but there's been a bit of a lull since we got our Glory achievement done. I'd say we were in more danger to losing people to Skyrim right now than anything else.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

  • EmporiumEmporium Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

    I don't recall them saying they were doing anything more than considering doing it for 5 mans. The blog post regarding who gets bonus rolls for what specifically mentions LFR, but not 5 mans.

    Emporium on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Emporium wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

    I don't recall them saying they were doing anything more than considering doing it for 5 mans. The blog post regarding who gets bonus rolls for what specifically mentions LFR, but not 5 mans.

    Yeah I remember it as a maybe for PandaTown Expac too.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    It doesn't make you queue as the spec you want to gear up, it just means you can't queue as DPS and then outroll the tank on tank loot. You can still roll, and your need roll will still take priority over other nontanks who roll greed, it just won't take priority over a need roll by an actual tank.

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

    Ah, yes. I'd like to see this if only to throw a wrench in Jubal's rolling for off-spec against people who are actually doing the dungeon in their main spec and need the gear for that. I think it makes perfect sense in 5-mans. There's no reason it shouldn't be there.
    It doesn't make you queue as the spec you want to gear up, it just means you can't queue as DPS and then outroll the tank on tank loot.

    Yeah, but this is exactly what Jubal wants to do. Jubal is of the firm belief, that if he's there, he deserves any piece of equipment he can use.

    Esh on
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    Yea, that's what I see. I mean, if the tank rolls need on a tanking item, I feel they should get it over a paly healer or whatever.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Esh wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

    Ah, yes. I'd like to see this if only to throw a wrench in Jubal's rolling for off-spec against people who are actually doing the dungeon in their main spec and need the gear for that. I think it makes perfect sense in 5-mans. There's no reason it shouldn't be there.
    It doesn't make you queue as the spec you want to gear up, it just means you can't queue as DPS and then outroll the tank on tank loot.

    Yeah, but this is exactly what Jubal wants to do. Jubal is of the firm belief, that if he's there, he deserves any piece of equipment he can use.

    It is a pug so yeah I do believe I should get rights to roll on gear I will use. So if they implement the new NB4G in 5 mans by your logic all tanking items that drop are mine then. Roll Need on all items marked as tank regardless if I need them. I mean I did queue as tank right?

  • DysDys Registered User regular
    I can't decide which armor set I want to transmogrify to tomorrow.

    jvsB6.jpg or ZWKsW.jpg

    Help me decide, people!

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    I'd like to add that I have all classes to 85 so I've had my share of losing items to others for off spec. As long as I get my VP/JP I typically don't care. If I don't get that item later I'll buy it from points.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    @Dys
    I've always been a fan of the second one personally.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Jubal77 wrote:
    Esh wrote:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I don't see how the roll system change is terrible, either.

    I'd have been okay with the regular need/greed setup in the raid finder, but this just seems like a good refinement.

    It is my opinion but I don't like the fact that it basically makes me queue as the role, if they put it in 5 mans, to work on gearing that spec. I have always been able to gear up one spec then use that spec to gear up on off spec. I don't see why I shouldn't be able to do so while I am pugging. The group benefits because I'm using gear that is superior than my other set and it is another healer or tank in the queue as I fill my dps slots last.

    It makes more sense in LFraids but the new NB4G has no business in the LFD queue.

    Ah, yes. I'd like to see this if only to throw a wrench in Jubal's rolling for off-spec against people who are actually doing the dungeon in their main spec and need the gear for that. I think it makes perfect sense in 5-mans. There's no reason it shouldn't be there.
    It doesn't make you queue as the spec you want to gear up, it just means you can't queue as DPS and then outroll the tank on tank loot.

    Yeah, but this is exactly what Jubal wants to do. Jubal is of the firm belief, that if he's there, he deserves any piece of equipment he can use.

    It is a pug so yeah I do believe I should get rights to roll on gear I will use. So if they implement the new NB4G in 5 mans by your logic all tanking items that drop are mine then. Roll Need on all items marked as tank regardless if I need them. I mean I did queue as tank right?

    Uhm, no. You're not getting this at all. Who do you know who rolls on things they don't need in their current spec? I never used that logic at all. I understand that it's Jubal Vs. The World when it comes to MMOs, but that just kinda completely describes a certain theory put forth by the creators of Penny Arcade.

    Here's how it should work:

    Let's say there's two plate wearers in the party. A Prot Warrior and a Fury Warrior. Shield drops. Prot Warrior could use that shield. It's better than his current shield. He should get the ONLY need roll on it. Fury Warrior has a tank spec, but he didn't queue as a tank for this run. He should NOT get a Need roll on the shield. Now, let's maybe the Prot Warrior has a better shield. Why would he ever roll Need on something worse than what he has? THEN the Tank will pass it on and the Fury Warrior can Need on it. You don't just Need on everything because you can use it, whether you're currently specced for it or not. Priority goes to the person in the group with that current spec. Whether it's his main, his off, whatever. He queued as that. If you don't want to queue as something and wait a few extra minutes, then that's your issue. I don't know what your server is like, but even as DPS, I don't wait longer than 20 minutes ever.
    Jubal77 wrote:
    I'd like to add that I have all classes to 85 so I've had my share of losing items to others for off spec. As long as I get my VP/JP I typically don't care. If I don't get that item later I'll buy it from points.

    No idea what this has to do with anything. So you've run into some people who acted just as goosey as you do now. Don't sink to their level. I've been playing since Vanilla and I've only had things snatched out from under me a number of times I can count on one hand by off-spec people rolling on my main spec. Civility. Just because you don't have to face someone, doesn't mean you should be a goose to them. The PUG is not your enemy, in fact, they're your friends.

    I'm not going to go round and round on this with you.

    Esh on
  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    @Dys The second! I'm a bit biased though, as my first char was a troll shaman and I always preferred the kilts.

    Also, have to agree that need+ would be pretty nice in 5 mans. It's not long before people are rolling greed or d/e anyway.

    Noggin on
    Battletag: Noggin#1936
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    I understand how it works just fine. I just don't agree with it. Both parties in your story have equal right to it in my opinion in 5 mans queue.

    Edit: @esh then don't I predicated my first post with "this is my opinion". No need to go over it again. If my experience is not common then all the power to your side of the opinion. The mere fact that they are talking about implementing such a system means my experience is very common and they feel they might have to step in. Which I disagree with.

    Jubal77 on
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    @Dys The one on the right, in my opinion. If you were an Orc I'd say the first, but the second fits the troll motif much better.

  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Whoever made the newest tier PvP of paladin armor should be promoted to head of item design at Blizzard. That, and the rogue designer should be fired. I think I'm going with some Rogue PvP armor (Wrath era) as my transmorg set. They always look so much more utilitarian than the crazy shit the PvE team is tossing out.

    EDIT: Fixed

    Esh on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Esh wrote:
    Whoever made the newest tier of paladin armor should be promoted to head of item design at Blizzard. That, and the rogue designer should be fired. I think I'm going with some Rogue PvP armor as my transmorg set. They always look so much more utilitarian than the crazy shit the PvE team is tossing out.

    really? Are you sure you're not talking about the pally Season 11 gear?

    Because the T13 is pretty average I thought. It's better than some, for sure, but it's kinda generic.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
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  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Esh wrote:
    Whoever made the newest tier of paladin armor should be promoted to head of item design at Blizzard. That, and the rogue designer should be fired. I think I'm going with some Rogue PvP armor as my transmorg set. They always look so much more utilitarian than the crazy shit the PvE team is tossing out.

    really? Are you sure you're not talking about the pally Season 11 gear?

    Because the T13 is pretty average I thought. It's better than some, for sure, but it's kinda generic.

    That is exactly what I meant. Thanks. : ) T13 overall is pretty bad. It just goes to reinforce my opinion of the PvP designers over the PvE.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    I'm okay with Pally T13, I don't love it but I don't hate it. The design is going to have issues with some races though.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Esh wrote:
    Whoever made the newest tier PvP of paladin armor should be promoted to head of item design at Blizzard. That, and the rogue designer should be fired. I think I'm going with some Rogue PvP armor (Wrath era) as my transmorg set. They always look so much more utilitarian than the crazy shit the PvE team is tossing out.

    EDIT: Fixed

    I agree. They need to swap teams or swap the standards for design in place between pvp gear and pve. I personally haven't liked any of the pve tier this xpac for Warriors as a full set.

    Jubal77 on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    this is what my transmog set looks like right now

    clipboard01lvc.jpg

    and it makes me so sad

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    So if they implement the new NB4G in 5 mans by your logic all tanking items that drop are mine then. Roll Need on all items marked as tank regardless if I need them. I mean I did queue as tank right?

    This isn't a problem with the loot system, this is a problem with you acting like an entitled douchebag. Which you have the ability to do under either roll system, but have less ability to do under the +100 system.

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • ParagonParagon Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Jubal77 wrote:
    It is a pug so yeah I do believe I should get rights to roll on gear I will use.

    This infuriates me. I have done a ton of LFDs because it is something that I enjoy doing; I gathered enough JP to buy every single heirloom (two extra, in fact) because I like helping new people through dungeons, especially when I outgear it so that it's easier for all of us.

    Yes, it's a pug, so what? That has nothing to do with absolutely anything in any way, shape, or form. There are other people in there, and it's not your personal playground and loothaven. You should still treat people with respect. You should still be fair and not ninja things from people. I don't care that you CAN hit need. Just because you CAN hit need doesn't mean you should; you're one hair's breadth away from rolling need just to sell everything "because it's a pug."

    Just look at your next sentence:
    Jubal77 wrote:
    So if they implement the new NB4G in 5 mans by your logic all tanking items that drop are mine then. Roll Need on all items marked as tank regardless if I need them. I mean I did queue as tank right?

    This kind of attitude is exactly why we need the new system. The new system might allow geese to keep people from getting offspec pieces, but at least it ensures that we get loot for our main specs as opposed to now when people ninja something from the last boss in a dungeon half the fucking time just because there are no repercussions whatsoever (can't kick and there's no point since it's already over).

    If they do it earlier than that, most of the time they get kicked. And for good reason: it's goosery of the highest order.

    Paragon on
    Bagginses wrote: »
    Really, -J-'s argument against empiricism comes down to "sure, it might work in practice, but it still doesn't work in theory," which I suppose makes rationalists the philosophical version of paultards and goldbugs.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    So if the patch really is coming out tomorrow, I want to know what the status is with the "up in the air" stuff from the PTR.

    Did they end up making those alchemy transmute epic gem patterns available somewhere?
    Are profession stat bonuses getting bumped up?

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    If you aren't transmoggin' your shaman into the Worldbreaker Shoulders then you are doing something horribly wrong.

  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    lol, nope.

    also:

    Have you completed a background download of 4.3? Now would be a good time to check.

    belligerent on
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    On the loot issue. To me a pug means that they are not guild mates. They are people I will never play with again most likely. And this usually means people are not nice in pugs. It is a common occurrence for me in pugs. It sucks.v I have leveled every class to 85 and that has afforded me many many instances of people just being not nice. It doesn't mean i am a mean person mindlessly to people in pug groups. It is a cause and effect thing for me. I guess you all have assumed that I need everything that comes across my plate which I do not do. If the group is a good group I'll pass to the good healer or other people doing their jobs. But these groups are few and far between to me.

    To me I'm in a pug to get points and loot. As is everyone else. And that is how it goes on the vast majority of my queues. No holds barred. I must be On a crappy battle group or something.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    And this usually means people are not nice in pugs. It is a common occurrence for me in pugs. It sucks.
    To me I'm in a pug to get points and loot. As is everyone else. And that is how it goes on the vast majority of my queues. No holds barred.

    it's almost as if there might be some kind of relationship between these two statements

    and here we have a system that will in some incremental way reduce people's ability to act like toolboxes, and you're worried it will remove your ability to roll on everything you ever wanted

    NREqxl5.jpg
  • EshEsh Tending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles. Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Jubal77 wrote:
    On the loot issue. To me a pug means that they are not guild mates. They are people I will never play with again most likely. And this usually means people are not nice in pugs. It is a common occurrence for me in pugs. It sucks.v I have leveled every class to 85 and that has afforded me many many instances of people just being not nice. It doesn't mean i am a mean person mindlessly to people in pug groups. It is a cause and effect thing for me. I guess you all have assumed that I need everything that comes across my plate which I do not do. If the group is a good group I'll pass to the good healer or other people doing their jobs. But these groups are few and far between to me.

    To me I'm in a pug to get points and loot. As is everyone else. And that is how it goes on the vast majority of my queues. No holds barred. I must be On a crappy battle group or something.

    Your persistence in perpetuating this behavior doesn't help things. I mean honestly, are you reading what you're writing? There are dozens of people I see every day that I will not see again, it's no excuse to be a goose to them. And don't use the "it's not real life" excuse. That's a pretty flimsy argument in this day and age. It still upsets people and upsets their day.

    Just because something happens to you, doesn't mean you need to take out your frustrations on others. People are here to have fun and enjoy themselves, not put up with goosery like yours. Be a better man about it and stop stooping to their (your current) level.

    Esh on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    So peeps were worried the 5.0 changes would mean non-resto druids didnt have an ooc res, turns out that was just a mistake with the calc. \o/

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    To duo Blackwing Lair, does it matter much what your class composition is? Or do you need to get to three and above before it's zergable? If it's doable with two I'd find someone and run through there before patch to see if anything interesting drops, but the more people beyond that, the more competition for rolls.

    SabreMau on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    you need a dispeller for chromaggus otherwise someone will get mced

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Going in as my prot paladin can take care of the disease/poison ones, at least. Could switch to holy and get magic down too.

    SabreMau on
  • StrikaStrika Registered User regular
    You just need that and pick up the hourglass sand, and you should be fine. I duo'd it as a rogue with a feral druid. He would just shift out and de-curse and we both had the sand to use whenever we had to.

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