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Homeland[sho] - She's not crazy, simply in love!

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think its quite possible that I missed the implication and went straight with the literal meaning of what was said since my higher brain functions werent all there at the time.

    I think we're both right.


    Part of me thinks the Brody thing was a test though, just to see how committed he was. Although really given his actions in the previous episode they shouldnt really be questioning.

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    Mr ObersmithMr Obersmith Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    You know, it didn't bother me until somebody pointed it out....but seriously, why the fuck would you send your single most important and recognizable operative to do that? Like, the 'nobody else knows him' shit doesn't hold...you can TELL somebody who the tailor is.

    I'm pretty sure the point was that they could have sent someone else, but it would have set off even more red flags for the tailor who would have bolted right away. At least he had previously had some interaction with Brody. What I find less believable is that Brody seemed to honestly think he wasn't driving the guy to his death.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Well, Brody also seems to think his helping terrorists doesn't lead to "killing innocent people" when, you know, that's what terrorist DO Mr. Ex-Marine. So his brain has be scrambled pretty good after all the shit he went through, obviously. So I can see him just blanking out anything he has to at any given moment. Probably been doing it for 8 years straight to one degree or another.

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    jakobaggerjakobagger LO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTORED Registered User regular
    He just says he won't personally be involved in the killing of innocent people. Also 'innocent people' is a way narrower category than civilians.

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    Mustachio JonesMustachio Jones jerseyRegistered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Hmm....yeah, he says "the one piece of intel that Estes and <whoever> haven't seen yet."

    I suppose that could mean they were told of the content, but haven't actually seen the video itself. I took it to mean they weren't actually aware of it, though. It felt, in context, like that was the implication, but I can definitely see your way as well.

    EDIT: I mean, your way makes infinitely more sense of course...but we are living in a world where a terrorist cell sends its single most important and recognizable operative as an errand boy, so...

    It sounded like, to me anyway, that Saul told Estes over the phone or some such, because there was nothing to any of the paper they found. Estes told Carrie that they found something, indicated by that "yes" he gave Carrie. I'm just assuming that we're supposed to take the fact literally that he wanted to show Carrie first.

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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited October 2012
    Estes straight up said that they did get something of value to Carrie, but wouldn't divulge it to her. They did not transmit this data over a network connection, choosing to smuggle a physical SD card across a politically strained border (dum, da dum dum dum-dum-dum). Either way, I truly believe Saul told him they got evidence related to a sleeper terrorist in the country, and he would show him as soon as he got back. anything else couldn't be trusted over a phone connection.

    syndalis on
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    I was fully ready to scream at the TV when the evidence was confiscated, and relieved at Saul's cleverness.

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I was fully ready to scream at the TV when the evidence was confiscated, and relieved at Saul's cleverness.

    Yeah, when that happened I was both offended at the violation of international law and the discovery of the chip.

    And then he got all sneaky.


    Now the terrorists think they have the (I assume they assume) only copy of the video. Stupid terrorists.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    emp123 wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I was fully ready to scream at the TV when the evidence was confiscated, and relieved at Saul's cleverness.

    Yeah, when that happened I was both offended at the violation of international law and the discovery of the chip.

    And then he got all sneaky.

    Now the terrorists think they have the (I assume they assume) only copy of the video. Stupid terrorists.

    I was mostly upset that it seemed like lazy writing to keep the plot from advancing.

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    BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    emp123 wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I was fully ready to scream at the TV when the evidence was confiscated, and relieved at Saul's cleverness.

    Yeah, when that happened I was both offended at the violation of international law and the discovery of the chip.

    And then he got all sneaky.

    Now the terrorists think they have the (I assume they assume) only copy of the video. Stupid terrorists.

    I was mostly upset that it seemed like lazy writing to keep the plot from advancing.

    After the first season, I can't believe you'd think this show has lazy writers :P

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Why would confiscating the video even fucking matter? It made for an intense (and awesome) scene, of course, but if you're still gonna let Saul go home what's the point?

    Are they just hoping he didn't watch it yet? Or that he's not one of the cool kids, so nobody back at Langley will believe him when he says what was on it?

    I mean, even assuming the security officer didn't know what he was confiscating (likely) the likelihood that it was the only copy, and that the damage wasn't already done, doesn't seem worth tugging on the U.S.'s nuts.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    That's totally true, but the show is going to have to jump through those kinds of hoops now anyway to keep it going. So them taking the evidence could have lead exactly to everyone doubting etc etc.

    Xeddicus on
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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    i thuoght for the first few episodes this would be a bit weirder

    but then it basically turned loopy

    still fun tho

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Why would confiscating the video even fucking matter? It made for an intense (and awesome) scene, of course, but if you're still gonna let Saul go home what's the point?

    Are they just hoping he didn't watch it yet? Or that he's not one of the cool kids, so nobody back at Langley will believe him when he says what was on it?

    I mean, even assuming the security officer didn't know what he was confiscating (likely) the likelihood that it was the only copy, and that the damage wasn't already done, doesn't seem worth tugging on the U.S.'s nuts.

    The point to raiding the diplomatic bag isn't so much to try and obfuscate intelligence from the CIA so much as it is an attempt to find out what the CIA's learned and compartmentalize the damage -- much like they compartmentalized the damage surrounding the friend in Pennsylvania (and let's face it, that guy was going to get a bullet in the back of the head under the best of cases, judging by the way the Network dealt with the couple who purchased the safe house by the airport). This wasn't explained very well in this episode, but I'm expecting that at some point
    Abu Nasir's network is going to attempt to eliminate Brody as a security risk before the CIA can figure out what to do about him based on credible information that he is likely either to be lifted or flipped. I'm also expecting that many at the CIA will choose to believe that the network came by this intelligence after the bag was raided instead of suspecting a mole, as Carrie and Saul do.

    Also that mole is probably going to want to do whatever he can to get Brody killed anyway since Brody can definitively prove the existence of a mole.

    SammyF on
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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Wow, they are definitely not padding the plot at all.

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    jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    Another great episode. I have no idea where they're going with the remainder of the season, and I'm really happy about that.

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    Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    ho ly shit

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    jesus fuck this show

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Another great episode. I have no idea where they're going with the remainder of the season, and I'm really happy about that.

    Yeah, despite earlier complaints (and I stand by them) this still makes it one of my favorite shows. Like, I have no fucking idea where they're going with any of this. I have no idea where we're supposed to end up, or how we're going to get there. At all.

    That's kinda fun.

    Even if it turns out stupid.

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    BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    God fuckin' damn

    That escalated quickly

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    BedigunzBedigunz Registered User regular
    Behemoth wrote: »
    Behemoth wrote: »
    God fuckin' damn

    That escalated quickly

    For real. I love that there is no filler, and I figured the events of this episode would take a couple of weeks to play out.

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    Coran Attack!
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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Another great episode. I have no idea where they're going with the remainder of the season, and I'm really happy about that.

    Yeah, despite earlier complaints (and I stand by them) this still makes it one of my favorite shows. Like, I have no fucking idea where they're going with any of this. I have no idea where we're supposed to end up, or how we're going to get there. At all.

    That's kinda fun.

    Even if it turns out stupid.

    Yeah the whole passive double angle that they suggested at the beginning was incredibly obvious, like this was going to essentially become an espionage procedural. Carrie comes across as crazy - but maybe crazy like a fox - for blowing that play, and I feel the same way about the writers.

    The passive double play seemed so obvious because every other alternative looked so bad. I have no idea where they are going with this.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    I have no idea where they are going with this.

    It's great, isn't it?

    I mean, I would have thought that the end to last night's episode would be in the last 2 episodes of the season, but now I can't wait for next week to see
    How they deal with secretly holding a US Congressman prisoner.

    Right now it looks like they are going to blow the plot for the entire show, but at least I thought the same thing last season. It's refreshing for a show to keep me guessing this much.

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    Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy Registered User regular
    "Oh, okay. We're going back to S1 territory with the wiretapping team and Carrie getting personally involved with Brody WAIT WHAT CARRIE WHAT ARE YOU DOING HOLY SHIT."

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    What CT said.

    No matter what happens next, this made for a fucking amazing hour of television.

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    HOLY SHIT.

    ...

    HOLY SHIT.

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    zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    Best show on TV.

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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    CARRIE WHAT THE FUCK

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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    This show is pretty good you guys

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    Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy Registered User regular
    Renewed. Not surprising.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Whoa they went there waaaaaay earlier in the season than I was expecting

    That's surprising

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I mean, I would have thought that the end to last night's episode would be in the last 2 episodes of the season, but now I can't wait for next week to see
    How they deal with secretly holding a US Congressman prisoner.

    Yeah the difficulty of figuring out how to pull this off made it seem like the absolute least plausible play, so I'm now intensely curious as to what they'll invent to resolve that difficulty. Also
    What the hell are they going to use to interrogate him? The most obvious leverage they have on him is his daughter, but they've gone to the "use the family" well an awful lot already, and also they seem to delight in making the obvious non-viable in a way that forces the characters to work with the worst case scenario.

    I've been inventorying everything they have in the back of my mind today:
    1. They still have the diplomat from the Saudi embassy in place as an active double.
    2. They conceivably will be able to find out that he was inside the Pentagon at the time of the Beirut raid and sent a mayday text message from inside the situation room, as well as the number to which he sent that message. Perhaps he didn't call a burner phone?
    3. They have three dark faces on a cork board that Brody met with after his initial brush with Carrie -- one of those belongs to his handler, but her cover seems pretty good. The car wash would probably look like the most obvious cut-out.
    4. Carrie and Saul haven't talked about it at all this season, but they knew there was a mole at the end of last season.
    5. They know someone told Brody about the electroshock treatments -- who was this?
    6. They overheard the wife complaining about Brody blowing off the fundraiser -- did Brody drive past any security cameras on his way to Gettysburg?

    I'm curious as to how they're going to put together all of those pieces.

    On the character development side, I'm looking forward to seeing
    How Brody handles being locked in a hole again because between this show and Life, I think Damien Lewis was born to be a prisoner. Also looking forward to seeing how the daughter and the Veep's son handle finding out that one dad plotted to kill the other because drama.

    SammyF on
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    ED!ED! Registered User regular
    They have an out. We haven't seen the full video yet, so it's conceivable lawyers can argue "The guy was letting off steam. . ." That's if it ever gets there. Realistically they have many "outs" as far as where they can go with the story, either way Season 2 is already heads and shoulders above Season 1. And the daughter gets better and better (she was already one of the better B-stories last season).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Finally saw the episode.

    Shit is so real now. So real.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    They have an out. We haven't seen the full video yet, so it's conceivable lawyers can argue "The guy was letting off steam. . ." That's if it ever gets there. Realistically they have many "outs" as far as where they can go with the story, either way Season 2 is already heads and shoulders above Season 1. And the daughter gets better and better (she was already one of the better B-stories last season).

    Either way his political career is finished

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    The daughter used to bug me, but shes definitely been better this season.

    The son is a total non-character though.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    The son is also not on screen practically, so that's fine.

    The daughter's B plot is a stupid love triangle. That's not better, it's worse. It's taking up time from...well, shit there's a triangle or 2 in the main plot even. So I guess it's a wash.

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    DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The son is also not on screen practically, so that's fine.

    The daughter's B plot is a stupid love triangle. That's not better, it's worse. It's taking up time from...well, shit there's a triangle or 2 in the main plot even. So I guess it's a wash.

    I ended up fast forwarding through that part because I absolutely do not care about a teen romance story in Homeland. It reeked of trying to fill time. Or maybe that new kid is a creepy person and Brody will kill him later for what he'll do to... whatever his daughter's name is. I would approve of that. But I just want more Lewis and Danes, please!

    Dashui on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Dashui wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The son is also not on screen practically, so that's fine.

    The daughter's B plot is a stupid love triangle. That's not better, it's worse. It's taking up time from...well, shit there's a triangle or 2 in the main plot even. So I guess it's a wash.

    I ended up fast forwarding through that part because I absolutely do not care about a teen romance story in Homeland. It reeked of trying to fill time. Or maybe that new kid is a creepy person and Brody will kill him later for what he'll do to... whatever his daughter's name is. I would approve of that. But I just want more Lewis and Danes, please!
    You don't see how the daughter of a suspected terrorist dating the son of the vice president / presidential candidate will have repercussions?

    Almost nothing in this show has been done wastefully, and their "love triangle" plot is not overwrought. I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Dashui wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    The son is also not on screen practically, so that's fine.

    The daughter's B plot is a stupid love triangle. That's not better, it's worse. It's taking up time from...well, shit there's a triangle or 2 in the main plot even. So I guess it's a wash.

    I ended up fast forwarding through that part because I absolutely do not care about a teen romance story in Homeland. It reeked of trying to fill time. Or maybe that new kid is a creepy person and Brody will kill him later for what he'll do to... whatever his daughter's name is. I would approve of that. But I just want more Lewis and Danes, please!
    You don't see how the daughter of a suspected terrorist dating the son of the vice president / presidential candidate will have repercussions?

    Almost nothing in this show has been done wastefully, and their "love triangle" plot is not overwrought. I'm giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here.

    Yeah. If anything, the daughter's subplot is being handled intelligently and realistically.
    They really didn't waste much time on their "date" (compared to the awesome spy vs. spy stuff) and she's actually trying to be a decent person (she wants to break up with her current boyfriend before hooking up with the new one. That's the opposite of melodrama). Building the daughter as a character is important. It was the key to the failure of last season's terrorist plot.

    I don't see how you could look at last episode and accuse it of filling time, like it was the first half of The Walking Dead Season 2 where they just looked for the lost girl for episodes on end. Shit is going down fast, and it's only episode 3.

    What I hope happens:
    They flip Brody. He had issues with Nazir by now anyway, and Carrie/New Guy will realize that he honestly doesn't have the goods that they want (giving up his handler does not net them Nazir, not directly). So far he's only killed jihadists, if I recall correctly, so there aren't any inncent civilian deaths that the CIA will have to make him answer for.

    Flipping Brody lets him stay in congress, lets him continue to have ethical dilemmas, and sets up the mole subplot to return with a vengence.

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