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Homeland[sho] - She's not crazy, simply in love!

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Man.
    That raid pretty much fucked my belief in who the mole is. I am assuming that Agent Galvez is dead (they said they had 7 casualties, and at a different time it was 6 dead, and Quinn survived, so... yeah.

    I was confident before, but I was sure that Galvez was the mole early in this episode; he was the one who failed to pick up voices on the Roya meeting, and he seemed just a bit too helpful. He called in the backup, too, and I wasn't at all surprised when they started shooting. Then he shot a terrorist, and they shot him. Probably.

    Aargh.

    Rough night for recurring characters.

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    I have nothing bad to say about this show.

    I am constantly blown away by how good the show is, like, it should have had an off episode or two but nope. All good, all the time.
    and now I totally jinxed it. Woo, something to complain about next week!

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    BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    Holy shit
    I could not care less about the hit-and-run plotline. I GET IT. YOU FEEL GUILTY AND ARE LEARNING THAT POLITICS IS FULL OF SCHEMING, AMORAL ASSHOLES. GAAAAAH!

    Otherwise, pretty good episode. I loved the scene where they totally shut down Brody's-marine-buddy-whose-name-I-can-never-remember.

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Holy shit.

    So I usually watch this show in front of my computer. And I had looked away for like literally one second...
    and then holy shit they just shoot everyone. Like holy shit.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    The real mole is obviously
    Virgil's moron cousin

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    WHAT WAS IN THE BOX DAMN YOU

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    So that was literally the exact opposite of what I had expected based on last week's preview.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    The real mole is obviously
    Virgil's moron cousin

    The thought had occurred to me.
    He could have specifically chosen that horrendous mic vantage to listen to Roya's meeting. It doesn't make much sense, though, because Carrie brought on Virgil in the first place, and he wouldn't be privy to all of the covert details that Nazir's been getting fed over the course of the series anyway.

    Agent Galvez was pretty much the best candidate after Estes didn't pan out, and he is now apparently dead.

    We should all just throw up our hands and say that the VP might as well be the mole at this point.

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    The real mole is obviously
    Virgil's moron cousin

    The thought had occurred to me.
    He could have specifically chosen that horrendous mic vantage to listen to Roya's meeting. It doesn't make much sense, though, because Carrie brought on Virgil in the first place, and he wouldn't be privy to all of the covert details that Nazir's been getting fed over the course of the series anyway.

    Agent Galvez was pretty much the best candidate after Estes didn't pan out, and he is now apparently dead.

    We should all just throw up our hands and say that the VP might as well be the mole at this point.

    There is no way that person could have access to the combination for Estes's safe. That's the limiting detail that will produce a narrow list of suspects once Brody gets around to mentioning his brief flirtation with espionage.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Its not like these people have had compunctions about killing their own before. Your theory is still possible.

    I wanna know was was in that box.
    They're ruthless but this group has never risked itself so openly. They gunned down 7 federal agents in broad daylight while wearing swat gear. Whatever was in that box was a BIG DEAL. If this show wasn't marginally believable most of the time I'd say it was a suitcase nuke or something horrible.

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    TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    I do have to wonder
    why they didn't go for the box before the feds got all up in their business. As in, as soon as they got the tailor out of the shop. Or at the same time, if they really trust Brody. Even if the feds were watching the place they could have probably gotten it out safer than shooting a bunch of people.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Its not like these people have had compunctions about killing their own before. Your theory is still possible.

    I wanna know was was in that box.
    They're ruthless but this group has never risked itself so openly. They gunned down 7 federal agents in broad daylight while wearing swat gear. Whatever was in that box was a BIG DEAL. If this show wasn't marginally believable most of the time I'd say it was a suitcase nuke or something horrible.

    Remember what the tailor was to the terrorists.
    My guess is that the box is full of plastic explosives, like he used in Brody's vest. Just as an aside, that would be a FUCKING LOT of plastique, enough to put a sizable hole in pretty much any edifice.

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    emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Its not like these people have had compunctions about killing their own before. Your theory is still possible.

    I wanna know was was in that box.
    They're ruthless but this group has never risked itself so openly. They gunned down 7 federal agents in broad daylight while wearing swat gear. Whatever was in that box was a BIG DEAL. If this show wasn't marginally believable most of the time I'd say it was a suitcase nuke or something horrible.

    Remember what the tailor was to the terrorists.
    My guess is that the box is full of plastic explosives, like he used in Brody's vest. Just as an aside, that would be a FUCKING LOT of plastique, enough to put a sizable hole in pretty much any edifice.

    Carrie did say that
    the terrorists now have a whole bunch of c4.

    So I assume thats what was in the case.

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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Its not like these people have had compunctions about killing their own before. Your theory is still possible.

    I wanna know was was in that box.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLDhMU5JvMk

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    MadCaddyMadCaddy Registered User regular
    The real mole is obviously
    Virgil's moron cousin

    The thought had occurred to me.
    He could have specifically chosen that horrendous mic vantage to listen to Roya's meeting. It doesn't make much sense, though, because Carrie brought on Virgil in the first place, and he wouldn't be privy to all of the covert details that Nazir's been getting fed over the course of the series anyway.

    Agent Galvez was pretty much the best candidate after Estes didn't pan out, and he is now apparently dead.

    We should all just throw up our hands and say that the VP might as well be the mole at this point.

    I stand by my mole suspect.. :) Even re: the whole mic fucking up, but a boom mic near a running waterfall.. That was a really well done scene. Very realistic way to foil the surveilance.

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    MadCaddyMadCaddy Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Edit: Oops, as you were.. Double post.. P.S. BEARD!

    MadCaddy on
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    TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    Holy Shit. That was unexpected.
    I don't think it is just plastic explosives in the crate. Maybe it is nuclear material or even a suit case nuke or something. But I'd venture a guess that it is something BIG, Nazir is planning.

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    MadCaddyMadCaddy Registered User regular
    In the previews for next week, they talked about C4, but that crate was big enough to fit whatever they want, that's for sure.. And if they have enough influence to be calling in swat raids in bumfuck south PA, then they definitely could get their hands on nukes pretty easy.. Hell, if they're capable of an agent infiltrating the CIA, they're probably well rounded in the villain mastermind handbook.

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    NailbunnyPDNailbunnyPD Registered User regular
    I don't know how you can logically equate SWAT team to nukes. That's quite a stretch.

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    Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    It's a box just large enough to hold a MacGuffin.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    I don't know how you can logically equate SWAT team to nukes. That's quite a stretch.

    Vote nerve gas.

    I mean seriously, it's not like deadly poison gas is hard to make. It's just a pain in the ass to handle.

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    Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    @madcaddy

    oughta put preview stuff in spoilers

    i watched this weeks but i usually don't

    just in case, you know

    sometimes people don't like them

    poo
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    I don't know how you can logically equate SWAT team to nukes. That's quite a stretch.

    It just seems like a huge risk of exposure for some c4.

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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    It could have been a hundred pounds of c4 and 20 pounds of radioactive material

    A dirty bomb with a bunch of C4 would be crazy easy to make

    override367 on
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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I think Saul's failed poly from last season is a setup for when he is suspected and eventually shut out of some critical decision making in the future.

    I really love this show, but some of the decisions really leave me scratching my head. I did not like Crazy Carrie in season one and I don't see what it adds to season 2. I don't like hit and run date night fun, either. These are things that would make me hate most other shows, but Brody and the plot are so engaging I just go along with the silly drama to get to the terror plot.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    I think Saul's failed poly from last season is a setup for when he is suspected and eventually shut out of some critical decision making in the future.

    I really love this show, but some of the decisions really leave me scratching my head. I did not like Crazy Carrie in season one and I don't see what it adds to season 2. I don't like hit and run date night fun, either. These are things that would make me hate most other shows, but Brody and the plot are so engaging I just go along with the silly drama to get to the terror plot.

    Crazy Carrie is a big part about why the show is so great. Without Carrie being nuts, it's simply a very good spy thriller. With Crazy Carrie (more specifically, realistically Crazy Carrie), it wins lots of awards.

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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    She's realistically crazy if only you forget the part about her being employed by the CI fucking A. Danes does a bang up job playing somebody with a mental illness. This character in another setting would be awesome. I do not like it in my spy thriller because no matter what you think of the CIA, they don't hire loony tunes.

    But that's just me. If it works for you, that's cool. It breaks my immersion is all I'm saying.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    She's realistically crazy if only you forget the part about her being employed by the CI fucking A. Danes does a bang up job playing somebody with a mental illness. This character in another setting would be awesome. I do not like it in my spy thriller because no matter what you think of the CIA, they don't hire loony tunes.

    But that's just me. If it works for you, that's cool. It breaks my immersion is all I'm saying.

    Uh... you know, this was a major plot point of the first season. She fooled them. She faked it and got drugs illegally from her nurse sister.

    The CIA doesn't hire loony toons, and that was the point. Did you see Gattica? The space launch department doesn't hire Invalid genetic types, but Ethan Hawke fooled them. That was the movie. Carrie working for the CIA, by hook or by crook, is Homeland.

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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    Uh... you know, this was a major plot point of the first season.

    Oh, I must have missed that. It must be the best plot ever then.

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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Uh... you know, this was a major plot point of the first season.

    Oh, I must have missed that. It must be the best plot ever then.
    What's with the snark? The CIA doesn't hire looney tunes. He was agreeing with you.

    Major Season 1 spoilers below:
    She lied to her coworkers, who did trust her, about her mental state while getting drugs illegally through her family to manage her condition. And it wasn't until a head trauma caused a break in her mental state that it even came out to her employers, at which point the CIA straight up fires her. Unceremoniously.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Uh... you know, this was a major plot point of the first season.

    Oh, I must have missed that. It must be the best plot ever then.
    What's with the snark? The CIA doesn't hire looney tunes. He was agreeing with you.

    Major Season 1 spoilers below:
    She lied to her coworkers, who did trust her, about her mental state while getting drugs illegally through her family to manage her condition. And it wasn't until a head trauma caused a break in her mental state that it even came out to her employers, at which point the CIA straight up fires her. Unceremoniously.

    Yeah, the CIA's reaction to Carrie's actions was perhaps the most realistic things I've seen in a spy thriller.

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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Uh... you know, this was a major plot point of the first season.

    Oh, I must have missed that. It must be the best plot ever then.
    What's with the snark? The CIA doesn't hire looney tunes. He was agreeing with you.

    Major Season 1 spoilers below:
    She lied to her coworkers, who did trust her, about her mental state while getting drugs illegally through her family to manage her condition. And it wasn't until a head trauma caused a break in her mental state that it even came out to her employers, at which point the CIA straight up fires her. Unceremoniously.

    The snark is because I don't care for the implication that I don't like something because I don't understand it. I know the story, this aspect does not work FOR ME.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    The snark is because I don't care for the implication that I don't like something because I don't understand it. I know the story, this aspect does not work FOR ME.

    It's totally okay for it to not work for you, but the reason you gave was that the CIA doesn't hire crazy people... but the plot of the first season was a very clinical explanation of how they could hire a crazy person by accident. It wasn't unrealistic the way that it was presented, and the CIA responded to being tricked in a very predictable and realistic way.

    Immersion breaking is when you can't suspend disbelief based on a particular conceit in a work of fiction, so I guess I am wondering what particular point of Carrie's story you found unrealistic. Not trying to one-up you or anything, I'm genuinely interested in if I missed something.

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    Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I don't believe the CIA is so incompetent as to miss the pill pushing sister. Background checks are what they do. After that, I don't believe somebody so nucking futs could pass a psych evaluation. Yes, the show did a good job showing her fooling her coworkers. I just don't think it was realistic for it to get that far, and that breaks my immersion. Not enough to ruin the show at all, but nothing is perfect.

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    XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    It's the fact Carrie is STILL acting Nucking Futs that is the problem. Brody is not a shoulder to cry on!!! The CIA would pull her off this case so fast even ignoring her being loopy...

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    I don't want to undersell the CIA or anything, and I know a couple people who would be flattered by your general impression of omniscience, Atlas, but they would also probably admit that when it comes to learning someone else's secrets, they're generally only capable of learning what someone else is willing to tell them, assuming the subject is actively interested in protecting a secret and knows enough basic tradecraft to obfuscate his or her activities.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    That's prety much it. Carrie knows all the tricks to subterfuge and manipulating people. Her wedding ring gambit, for example.

    She pretty much had her condition under control until events started getting crazy (sorry) stressful.

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    BehemothBehemoth Compulsive Seashell Collector Registered User regular
    That's prety much it. Carrie knows all the tricks to subterfuge and manipulating people. Her wedding ring gambit, for example.

    She pretty much had her condition under control until events started getting crazy (sorry) stressful.

    "Crazy stressful" in this case being blown up and then not taking her meds.

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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    On the topic of the wedding ring gambit, I wish we had a little more character development on her relationships with men generally because I kind of feel like there needs to be more of a story there, right? Like this one person whom I am convinced is a liar and a traitor is the only person with whom I feel emotional intimacy?

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    On the topic of the wedding ring gambit, I wish we had a little more character development on her relationships with men generally because I kind of feel like there needs to be more of a story there, right? Like this one person whom I am convinced is a liar and a traitor is the only person with whom I feel emotional intimacy?

    She's crazy.

    Like, this has never not made sense to me. She's good at her job because she's exactly crazy enough to more or less believe the lie when she's telling it, but be able to discard it later with ease.

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