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Need some advice on car selection (mainly a question about diesel cars...)
nessin
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
(Warning ahead of time, this is wordy because I think I was trying to justify my position, but I figured I'll leave it as is even after realizing that, I put some dashes down below to indicate where my actual question starts at the end)
For some background, I'm looking to replace a 04 Honda Civic with either a Hatchback or Compact SUV that will have more space. I bought a house a couple years ago and finally got fed up last friday when I was just two inches from being able to fit a TV stand into the Civic. Anyways, I was originally looking at the Compact SUV market and didn't like any of the options except for the Tuscon which I haven't seen yet:
Rogue/Sportage - crappy visibility
CR-V - don't know if I can handle more Honda road noise plus I couldn't tell you why but the overall look just puts me off
RAV4 - Why, oh why, couldn't they have a normal rear hatch? And I want to stick with small as possible
Equinox - Bigger than I'd like, and have you seen the number of Service Bulletins on it (2011) already? Even a recall notice.
Forester/Compass - Until just now when I was typing this out, I'd forgotten about both of them completely and haven't looked at them...
While waiting for my local dealership to get a Tuscon in for me to try out, I started getting antsy about losing the MPG going to an SUV especially after reading some real world numbers where few people get anywhere close an average they should be getting even accounting for EPA to Real World differences. Although I am a granny driver 90% of the time... Instead, I started looking into Hatchbacks:
Anything under 27/36 MPG (like the Versa) - No intention of looking at anything in this category until I check out the Impreza 2012, because unless the Impreza is junk I'd go with the Impreza. Admitted I bet I'd like something like the Mazda 3, or even the tC, because the Civic represents the highest performance I've had in a car ever driven outside of the occasional lucky rental. On the other hand, no matter how secretly I desire a performance car to play with, it will never beat out my practical nature (at least until I hit a mid-life crisis!).
Ford Fiesta/Rio/xD/all really small hatchbacks - If I go compact hatchback, I'm going to at least go with the actual compact rather than subcompact.
Ford Focus - Ridiculously expensive in comparison to others, and an equally ridiculously busy interior.
Honda Fit - Haven't had a chance to test drive it since my local dealer doesn't have any in stock, but I suspect I'd fit that into the "I'd just go with the Impreza" group. Assuming the Impreza is crappy, I'd probably go with the Fit or...
Hyundai Veloster - Aside from the fact that its shorter than I like (although I still fit with an extra inch or two-ish of headroom), and its got a more stylish look than I usually go for (I don't mind the look, but I'm usually a boring person, and that carries over into my choice of style for a car) the Veloster is probably what I'm leaning towards if I decide I don't want to make the jump on a Tuscon. It has crummy visibility out the rear, but not nearly on the level of the Sportage/Rogue and since it sits lower it's barely an issue.
Anyways, that is the situation I'm in. Waiting on the Tuscon to come in so I can test drive and, hopefully, make a decision on jumping on a Tuscon or going for a hatchback. However, the one hatchback I looked at but didn't mention was the Golf TDI. Aside from the extra cost behind the Diesel, most reviews (professional and otherwise) speak highly of the Golf with little to criticize it on unless you talk about the non-TDI version. The big hurdle is that I've never owned a diesel, and those I know who have all had them in much older big trucks however from everything I've read the Golf TDI would be a good fit for me.
I plan on keeping this thing long-term, so as long as the diesel prices don't go super crazy (which they've done in the past), I think the added fuel efficiency will pay off in comparison to an SUV. Plus the TDI version nets you all the premium stuff such that you're still paying less with the TDI than you for an similarly equipped SUV, so the price difference is not a huge concern for me. I'm mainly worried about what kind of additional maintenance comes along with diesel engines compared to a standard gas engine, and/or anything else I should know that might make a difference in whether I should look into a diesel or not.
Also, since I wrote up that whole front section which has very little to do with my actual question, I'd appreciate it if anyone could point out a car I'd missed, or even any opinions about what I should get.
P.S.
Looking at this post after writing it up, I think I'm coming across more picky than I am. All I care about in a car is that it will last me a long time, has a CD player that will play MP3s, power windows, cruise control, and is comfortable for me. Everything else is immaterial, and in some cases downright hated (I'm looking at you navigation systems and small sunroofs).
For some background, I'm looking to replace a 04 Honda Civic with either a Hatchback or Compact SUV that will have more space. I bought a house a couple years ago and finally got fed up last friday when I was just two inches from being able to fit a TV stand into the Civic. Anyways, I was originally looking at the Compact SUV market and didn't like any of the options except for the Tuscon which I haven't seen yet:
Rogue/Sportage - crappy visibility
CR-V - don't know if I can handle more Honda road noise plus I couldn't tell you why but the overall look just puts me off
RAV4 - Why, oh why, couldn't they have a normal rear hatch? And I want to stick with small as possible
Equinox - Bigger than I'd like, and have you seen the number of Service Bulletins on it (2011) already? Even a recall notice.
Forester/Compass - Until just now when I was typing this out, I'd forgotten about both of them completely and haven't looked at them...
While waiting for my local dealership to get a Tuscon in for me to try out, I started getting antsy about losing the MPG going to an SUV especially after reading some real world numbers where few people get anywhere close an average they should be getting even accounting for EPA to Real World differences. Although I am a granny driver 90% of the time... Instead, I started looking into Hatchbacks:
Anything under 27/36 MPG (like the Versa) - No intention of looking at anything in this category until I check out the Impreza 2012, because unless the Impreza is junk I'd go with the Impreza. Admitted I bet I'd like something like the Mazda 3, or even the tC, because the Civic represents the highest performance I've had in a car ever driven outside of the occasional lucky rental. On the other hand, no matter how secretly I desire a performance car to play with, it will never beat out my practical nature (at least until I hit a mid-life crisis!).
Ford Fiesta/Rio/xD/all really small hatchbacks - If I go compact hatchback, I'm going to at least go with the actual compact rather than subcompact.
Ford Focus - Ridiculously expensive in comparison to others, and an equally ridiculously busy interior.
Honda Fit - Haven't had a chance to test drive it since my local dealer doesn't have any in stock, but I suspect I'd fit that into the "I'd just go with the Impreza" group. Assuming the Impreza is crappy, I'd probably go with the Fit or...
Hyundai Veloster - Aside from the fact that its shorter than I like (although I still fit with an extra inch or two-ish of headroom), and its got a more stylish look than I usually go for (I don't mind the look, but I'm usually a boring person, and that carries over into my choice of style for a car) the Veloster is probably what I'm leaning towards if I decide I don't want to make the jump on a Tuscon. It has crummy visibility out the rear, but not nearly on the level of the Sportage/Rogue and since it sits lower it's barely an issue.
Anyways, that is the situation I'm in. Waiting on the Tuscon to come in so I can test drive and, hopefully, make a decision on jumping on a Tuscon or going for a hatchback. However, the one hatchback I looked at but didn't mention was the Golf TDI. Aside from the extra cost behind the Diesel, most reviews (professional and otherwise) speak highly of the Golf with little to criticize it on unless you talk about the non-TDI version. The big hurdle is that I've never owned a diesel, and those I know who have all had them in much older big trucks however from everything I've read the Golf TDI would be a good fit for me.
I plan on keeping this thing long-term, so as long as the diesel prices don't go super crazy (which they've done in the past), I think the added fuel efficiency will pay off in comparison to an SUV. Plus the TDI version nets you all the premium stuff such that you're still paying less with the TDI than you for an similarly equipped SUV, so the price difference is not a huge concern for me. I'm mainly worried about what kind of additional maintenance comes along with diesel engines compared to a standard gas engine, and/or anything else I should know that might make a difference in whether I should look into a diesel or not.
Also, since I wrote up that whole front section which has very little to do with my actual question, I'd appreciate it if anyone could point out a car I'd missed, or even any opinions about what I should get.
P.S.
Looking at this post after writing it up, I think I'm coming across more picky than I am. All I care about in a car is that it will last me a long time, has a CD player that will play MP3s, power windows, cruise control, and is comfortable for me. Everything else is immaterial, and in some cases downright hated (I'm looking at you navigation systems and small sunroofs).
nessin on
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Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
i'd also recommend looking at the Mazda 5 - it's basically a Mazda 3 with a larger body - and sliding doors which are really useful
Actually I probably wasn't clear on that. I'm single with no kids, and I'm not looking for a lot of space. In reality, the Honda Civic actually would be perfect if it was in hatchback form. My problem, literally, is that over the past 2 years of owning my home I've had a lot of items that I could not transport (said TV stand earlier, the TV it went with fit but only because it was a flat panel that came in a flat box, unassembled tall bookshelf, so on and so forth). I do need room to fit three additional people (with no cargo, edit: usually transporting co-workers/friends to lunch or parents/local family to dinner), and I'd like something that would fit a wife and kid should I obtain such in the future but that is pretty secondary.
I did think about a Mazda 5, but not any other mini-vans. I ended up dismissing it because my main focus is throwing large/long boxes in the back and not carting around a family and I really didn't want to deal with the third row of seats when my plan for the near future would be to have them permanently folded down (and I didn't test drive it, not sure how that would change things though).
Never knew the Mazda 6 had a hatchback form, looks like they ended it in 2008. I'm mostly focusing on new (since the used market in the US currently removes 75% of your reasoning for buying used) but I couldn't even grab one if I wanted as there doesn't appear to be on within 200 miles of me.
I didn't look at the Mini because I don't like the look, too oddball for me. May seem weird since I mentioned not minding the Veloster, but I can deal with strange and curvy while too many rentals of the HHR leaves me dead to anything small that looks too boxy.
Regarding Diesel fuel, usually it's about the price of premium unleaded, but back when oil was breaking records in per-barrel price (north of $100-120/barrel) diesel was regularly 10-30 cents/gal more than premium. Also, any new diesel car needs to have ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. This shouldn't be a problem as most US retailers carrying diesel should have changed over to ULSD, but you'll want to loof for that on the pump. Not sure what gas prices you're expecting, but I think the days of under $3 gas are gone for good.
W/r/to TDI's in particular, you may want to look around for an auto shop that knows about TDI's (independent VW/Audi mechanic maybe) as the shop manager I talked to said the new TDI's required a particular type of engine oil. Now I'm not sure if he was bullshitting me or what, but something to look into. Also there are a few things present in the fuel delivery system (water trap) and some emmission component that's not present in normal gas vehicles. Not sure of the complete maintenance schedule, but on the Jetta sportwagen I drove for a couple months (still in warranty, so oil changes and such were covered by dealer) oil changes were at 10K mile intervals.
edit: And the Nissa Cube
The fuel economy is awesome on the highway (usually 45mpg +), and I have a fairly highway-centric commute, so that's been good for me. However, in the city, it's a little disappointing. For short trips (cold engine), I get like 25mpg, and for longer trips in town, maybe 30. The plus side, though, is that you have ridiculous power from a stop, at least for the price range. So I think of TDIs as being on the sporty end in the city and on the economy end on the highway.
Another thing to be aware of is that unless the Golf is different, these cars have some fairly specialized parts. The engine has been rock solid, but the diesel particulate filter has acted up a couple times (have to run the engine at high revs for 5min to regenerate it), and the DSG (some special automatic transmission I don't really get) was wonky for the better part of a year before it was replaced under recall.
It is a fantastic car. It took me a little bit to talk her into a diesel, but she adores it now. (I'm pretty keen on it too, it'll smoke the tyres through second and chirp them into third...) The new model (MkVI) has the new DSG, which doesn't have the jerkiness at low speeds the old model did. But get the manual anyway.
If you want something with even more space and carrying capacity than the Golf (we've done multiple Ikea trips in it, brought home flatscreen tvs, wardrobes, all kinds of shit - the back seats fold down and you can fit a refrigerator in it...), I would suggest the Tiguan (with the same engine). Or for something 'blokier', the Amarok.
Really, just get a Volkswagen diesel. They do require a more expensive oil when servicing (15,000 kms/1 year intervals) and the oil filter element is triple the price it should be ($45 over here!), but that's just the price you pay for a car that uses bugger-all fuel and puts out as much torque as a big V6...
GenlyAis comment about the particulate filter happened to us too a few times during the first year of ownership, it comes about when you drive it in stop-start traffic too much. A little warning lamp comes on, and then you make a conscious effort to take the car out on the highway for a few minutes the next time you drive it. That's all. After about 5000 kms on the odometer, it hasn't happened again.
QFT: The 2.0TDI has more torque than the 3.2 6 cylinder and at lower revs. The Jetta Sport Wagon is also available with the TDI motor if you need a bit more space. The problems with the DSG gearbox have been resolved and VW stands behind them 100%. If you can get it with paddles, it is a blast to drive in any driving condition. If you want more information on the Golf or Jetta head over to forums.vwvortex.com.
I wasn't talking about the Volkswagen VR6 V6 specifically.
Nope.
I don't see how diesels are more costly when you can do the engine maintenance yourself with a bit more work and tools needed than their gas counterparts.
To the OP, the Golf TDI is a great car and will last you a long time.
Yeah, I don't think they're more unreliable, just don't expect a huge fuel economy benefit in the city. If you care about fuel economy for short trips, get a hybrid. If you want to peel out of any red light with complete confidence you can choose whatever lane you want for the next stretch, get a diesel.
"The Golf TDI is a fantastic fucking car and there is absolutely nothing bad to say about it except that it is a little more pricey than the other cars in its class"
So there's that.
I'm aiming for the 2012 Impreza, but after doing more research and test-driving the Golf TDI I would have pounced on that in a heartbeat if it had an extra couple inches in the back with seats that fold flat or cost about 3k less than it does. As it stands, I just couldn't sell it to myself despite how much I enjoyed driving it since it didn't have enough space to hold the box I was using as a benchmark for how much space I wanted (stupid TV stand box). Almost thought of the Jetta SportWagon, but its too wagon-y/big and I didn't like the idea of the factory shift to Mexico.
Also I appreciate everyone's advice and comments!
but then I'm 99% certain the diesel version isn't available in North America.
edit: I bet you could get a pontiac aztek for pennies.
or you know, buy a station wagon because that's actually what you want, you just don't know it yet.
While I'm not totally against the idea of a wagon, I can't get one even if I wanted to because it wouldn't fit in my garage.
Nope. Outside of the occasional truck, you can only a find a small handful of diesels in the States. Not to mention other than VW and the Audi A3 they're all well over 30k.