Lessening the features of a console without dropping the price isn't something anyone should do, and isn't something consumers should have to sit back and take.
Maybe they just want to see how much Europe and Australia will take before we finally snap. I get the feeling sometimes that the three big companies are trying to outdo each other in how much they can fuck over the PAL regions.
Maybe some guy in a top hat and monocle flipped off both miyamoto and kutaragi when they were kids.
However, Sony has said - before anyone has purchased these new systems - that there will be a subsequent decrease in the number of titles the PS3 can play. Seems to eliminate the "but they told me it would" argument.
When? Where? Cite.
From the god damn link in the freaking first post:
"The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models," a Sony spokesman said.
Sony (spokesman) says there is a decrease (see above phrase) in the number of titles PS3 can play (implied by saying "is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models).
The European launch is three weeks away. So your when is Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:29AM EST and your where is the Reuters article in the first post. Consider it cited. I think the Europeans can consider themselves duly warned.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
We refer to this as Caveat Emptor.
Wikipedia: "Under the doctrine of Caveat Emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects. The modern trend, however, is one of the Implied Warranty of Fitness that applies only to the sale of new residential housing by a builder-seller and the rule of Caveat Emptor applies to all other sale situations (i.e. homeowner to buyer)"
The bolded part is exactly what Sony is doing by NOT releasing the list beforehand. Also, I highly doubt they're going to announce this stateside when they start shipping out the new PS3s.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
We refer to this as Caveat Emptor.
Wikipedia: "Under the doctrine of Caveat Emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects. The modern trend, however, is one of the Implied Warranty of Fitness that applies only to the sale of new residential housing by a builder-seller and the rule of Caveat Emptor applies to all other sale situations (i.e. homeowner to buyer)"
The bolded part is exactly what Sony is doing by NOT releasing the list beforehand. Also, I highly doubt they're going to announce this stateside when they start shipping out the new PS3s.
I'm not sure, by announcing that it won't support all games, it may be them trying to be in the letter of the law as it were.
however, they're pretty much beating up the Spirit of the Law, spitting on it, and then tossing it into a dumpster full of refuse.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
We refer to this as Caveat Emptor.
Wikipedia: "Under the doctrine of Caveat Emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects. The modern trend, however, is one of the Implied Warranty of Fitness that applies only to the sale of new residential housing by a builder-seller and the rule of Caveat Emptor applies to all other sale situations (i.e. homeowner to buyer)"
The bolded part is exactly what Sony is doing by NOT releasing the list beforehand. Also, I highly doubt they're going to announce this stateside when they start shipping out the new PS3s.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
However, they aren't actually telling anybody how limited the backwards compatibility is until after it goes on sale and everybody has picked up their pre-orders.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
We refer to this as Caveat Emptor.
Wikipedia: "Under the doctrine of Caveat Emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects. The modern trend, however, is one of the Implied Warranty of Fitness that applies only to the sale of new residential housing by a builder-seller and the rule of Caveat Emptor applies to all other sale situations (i.e. homeowner to buyer)"
The bolded part is exactly what Sony is doing by NOT releasing the list beforehand. Also, I highly doubt they're going to announce this stateside when they start shipping out the new PS3s.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
So, you expect this magic wonder list to go up 12:00:00AMGMT, right?
Which is then actually moot for the fact that people are likely going to camp out for it, with little to no access to a PC.
seriously, how hard is it to admit Sony has dropped the ball majorly, again, only to save themselves money and not pass this on at all to the consumer, especially when they already had a working form of BC.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
So, you expect this magic wonder list to go up 12:00:00AMGMT, right?
Which is then actually moot for the fact that people are likely going to camp out for it, with little to no access to a PC.
seriously, how hard is it to admit Sony has dropped the ball majorly, again, only to save themselves money and not pass this on at all to the consumer, especially when they already had a working form of BC.
Yes, I expect the Wunderlisztâ„¢ to be up by then.
Moot it may be, but a) get a frackin' PC, b) use a library or c) use your newfound webbrowser in your PS3 during the return policy.
It's probably pretty difficult. I imagine they have some sort of Tourettes-like syndrome that prevents them from admitting wrong. That being said - they are giving customers three weeks to get used to the idea that it may not play their copy of Crabby Adventure. If they were really going to stick it to the Man (er.. customer) they'd have waited until the day AFTER to announce it, quietly, and up until that point claim everything was "working as intended" or possibly that they were "looking into it"
Now that's that is said - I think we need a thread evaulating what it is about criticizing tech companies that makes some of us leap to their defence.
I couldn't really give a toss about this whole argument, but I still feel the need to toss up an argument. I'm terribly sorry about that.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
Seriously, can no one defend the PS3 and not insult people in the process?
Look, this is a forum about games. People are going to discuss this stuff. Yes, no one has to buy it, but that doesn't stop people from being disgusted by this move and voicing their concerns.
This is a bait and switch on Sony's part. It gave them the ability to bash Microsoft's backwards compatibility and then go and then use similar methods anyway. It's not fair to consumers and rather disrespectful to their supporters. If they actually wanted to tell people about this they would release the BC list now instead of after the system launches in Europe. If they actually could emulate as large a portion of the BC as you're expecting they would have shipped the PS3s like this worldwide in the first place. This is a move of desperation or greed, not of necessity.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
Seriously, can no one defend the PS3 and not insult people in the process?
Look, this is a forum about games. People are going to discuss this stuff. Yes, no one has to buy it, but that doesn't stop people from being disgusted by this move and voicing their concerns.
This is a bait and switch on Sony's part. It gave them the ability to bash Microsoft's backwards compatibility and then go and then use similar methods anyway. It's not fair to consumers and rather disrespectful to their supporters. If they actually wanted to tell people about this they would release the BC list now instead of after the system launches in Europe. If they actually could emulate as large a portion of the BC as you're expecting they would have shipped the PS3s like this worldwide in the first place. This is a move of desperation or greed, not of necessity.
I apologize if that was insulting however it does appear that you did a great deal of research while completely missing the point. As someone who legally deals with issues of disclosure as well as bait and switch, I can tell you it is neither. You can continue to be adamant about it, however that doesn't make you any more correct. I would disagree with your statement that if they could do BC right they would have released it in the first place - clearly they were working on the solution and now they believe it's much closer to release quality.
You know, like the Xbox 360 did with patches after release? Interesting quality that, being able to upgrade something via software because, you know, it IS software.
It's not a move of "Greed". It's a move of fiscal responsibility. They're of the opinion that they can save money and cut a part.
Does it suck for some end users? Well, it might - again, three weeks. Does it suck for Sony? They're chopping out a 30 dollar part, which, if they sell a million units (like they have in North America and another million in Japan) that makes - wait for it, $30 Million.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or try it out and return the fucking thing.
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
So, you expect this magic wonder list to go up 12:00:00AMGMT, right?
Which is then actually moot for the fact that people are likely going to camp out for it, with little to no access to a PC.
seriously, how hard is it to admit Sony has dropped the ball majorly, again, only to save themselves money and not pass this on at all to the consumer, especially when they already had a working form of BC.
Yes, I expect the Wunderlisztâ„¢ to be up by then.
Moot it may be, but a) get a frackin' PC, b) use a library or c) use your newfound webbrowser in your PS3 during the return policy.
It's probably pretty difficult. I imagine they have some sort of Tourettes-like syndrome that prevents them from admitting wrong. That being said - they are giving customers three weeks to get used to the idea that it may not play their copy of Crabby Adventure. If they were really going to stick it to the Man (er.. customer) they'd have waited until the day AFTER to announce it, quietly, and up until that point claim everything was "working as intended" or possibly that they were "looking into it"
Now that's that is said - I think we need a thread evaulating what it is about criticizing tech companies that makes some of us leap to their defence.
I couldn't really give a toss about this whole argument, but I still feel the need to toss up an argument. I'm terribly sorry about that.
A) Do you not realize how long ahead of time people start waiting in these lines? usually in the wee hours of the morning of the preceding day.
I don't think you understood my point. These people will be in a line outside a store. They will not likely have access to WiFi, let alone a PC, going to a library makes them loose their position in line and I'm not even sure what you're going on about with the PlayStation 3's browser
C) Three weeks notice is all well and good, but:
1) How many people are going to actually hear about this other than the internet gaming crowd? How many people are likely going to be told by Register jockies "Oh yeah, it'll play your old PS2 and PS1 games, so you can just trade that PS2 in for credit!"
D) Please don't toss out that "Crabby Adventure" stuff. As much as you say it, it won't be the crap that gets left out, it'll be just like the 360 and be whatever they can actually get to work, quality of the game be damned.
Oh come now. It's a commodity product. I understand completely.
You're not sure? You don't like it? It makes you sad? DON'T BUY IT. No one's twisting your arm and forcing you to stand in line. If you want it that bad, you want it that bad.
Besides it's England/Europe. On average everyone there has two "mobiles" (not kidding, those are the numbers). Check the tubes via that.
There are people outside the internet gaming crowd? HEATHENS.
And hey, Crabby Adventure is apparently a good game. It's right up there with Barbie Horse Adventures.
Really, it's the job of the consumer to be prepared. Sony has performed their due diligence here - it's up to the consumer to do the same.
Oh come now. It's a commodity product. I understand completely.
You're not sure? You don't like it? It makes you sad? DON'T BUY IT. No one's twisting your arm and forcing you to stand in line. If you want it that bad, you want it that bad.
Besides it's England/Europe. On average everyone there has two "mobiles" (not kidding, those are the numbers). Check the tubes via that.
There are people outside the internet gaming crowd? HEATHENS.
And hey, Crabby Adventure is apparently a good game. It's right up there with Barbie Horse Adventures.
Really, it's the job of the consumer to be prepared. Sony has performed their due diligence here - it's up to the consumer to do the same.
I agree that consumers should do their research, and this makes it all the more apparent. Heck, the guys at my local Gamestop, who are usually (Shockingly) really good with this stuff, are totally convinced the US PS3s don't use hardware for BC. I stopped trying to argue it with them. Sometimes one little piece of false info is all it takes to get everything screwed up. I don't like Sony's decision, but until I personally can evaluate how bad/good the software emulator is, I'm not going to feel the need to hate them with great vengeance.
Still, I feel bad for all those in Europe who won't find out about this until they get their system home. The market has gotten spat on by Sony just a bit, through no fault of their own. This generation is quite fascinating, especially because a year from now so many things could be so much different.
brynstar on
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I don't have a vested interest in how the market turns out (I don't want one console... I want ALL consoles! mu-hu-hahahahah) but I'd give my second cousin's left eye to have a flux capacitor powered Delorian right now. The next year will be interesting to say the least.
Sigh, I post a serious thread, and it turns out into petty bickering and rumour mongering. We don't know how good the emulated BC will be in reality, but still everyone is drawing big and hasty conclusions, and turning this into another front for console war. Of course, it's fairly reasonable be concerned about press release's wording, but in the other hand, press releases always have ambiguous wording. What annoys me most, however, is that even if EUR PS3's backwards compatibility will be good, no one is going believe on that after rumours start to circulate.
So... in the nutshell. Sony has started to remove PS2 dedicated chips from PS3 to save in manufacturing costs. As a result of this European PS3's will be less backwards compatible than their US and JPN counterparts. However, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, as Sony has many times stated that PS2 backwards compatibility will be completely hardware based on only first models. It is also fairly reasonable to except that new US and JPN PS3 models will feature same kind of hardware revision.
1) I'd call them retards for buying a PS3 to play PS2 games in the first place. I mean, to me backwards compatibility is an asset but it's not exactly a reason to buy the bloody console.
It is if you a) sat out the PS2 generation with another system, or b) your PS2 is broken, and you waited for the PS3's impending launch, so that you could get the best of both for your money.
Yeah, you're right, having the feature in for other countries and swiped away for Europe is a huge slap in the face, and could be interpreted as a dickish move. If Sony had known about all this, they should have just kept BC out from the beginning... then again, I'm guessing the execs/developers at Sony honestly didn't realize just how expensive the components would be (and, apparently, remain) when they created the PS3.
1up.com checked into it with the US branch. They didn't really deny that later-model PS3s here wouldn't be that way as well.
Sorry for the late reply, But it was in last weeks mcv where a lot of retail companies were quite annoyed at the plaaned design of the instore demo units which had to have a psp, ps3, sofa and Bravia tv (kinda all in one living room experience) and the smaller version is the same sans the sofa, something that would be quite a nightmare to fit.
I could see this in like, a Best Buy or Future Shop or something, but...
LBD_Nytetrayn on
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The question is: What quantity of titles would be deemed even remotely acceptable for the people complaining about this?
What if it were only 100 titles... but they were the 100 best selling PS2 titles of all time? 200 titles? 500 titles? Equivalent to the Xbox 360? Twice that amount? Would any number other than complete and total compatibility stop the "bleeding"? If that's the case, should we still be up in arms about the 360?
Ok, here's the deal which I don't know if you know.
Sony can do hardware emulation. They've proven that with current PS3s. Microsoft, quite frankly, can't do hardware emulation and therefor is FORCE to use software emulation.
Sony has decided to use software emulation AFTER releasing the console. They did this to save costs to themselves, not for the consumer. Microsoft decided to use software emulation BEFORE releasing the 360. They did it to save themselves money and to make the 360 a lot cheaper to consumers (if I'm remembering correctly either ATI or NVIDIA was wanting huge amounts of money for chips for the 360 for emulation).
What's your point? That Sony are evil because they don't want to lose more money? Can I say the same thing about Microsoft dropping Xbox 1 production?
Besides, you do realise the faster Sony start earning a profit on the PS3, the faster we get a price drop right?
If ANY title that is emulated via hardware isn't able to be emulated on the new PS3s consumers have a right to complain. It doesn't matter if the 360 doesn't have perfect emulation. Microsoft never said it would. Sony, on the other hand, HAS said the PS3 will emulate 99% (something like that) of their back catalog. People have a right to be mad about them going back on there word, especially this late in the game.
No they didn't. If I remember correctly, at first they stated that backwards compatibility would be somewhere between 60-80% (this was probably before the hardware solution came to the table, which is why the current model is somewhere around 98%). The point is, they haven't been saying 99% from the start, they aimed much lower.
I think it boils down to us folks here in the UK being sold a piece of kit for more than everyone else is paying for it that ultimately has less bits and pieces inside.
I think it boils down to us folks here in the UK being sold a piece of kit for more than everyone else is paying for it that ultimately has less bits and pieces inside.
Shit.
The term is "piece of shit."
LBD_Nytetrayn on
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Basically it says that it's good from a business standpoint because it'll save them money (they estimate $30/console) and Joe Consumer really doesn't care as much as all the people bitching on the internet.
Basically it says that it's good from a business standpoint because it'll save them money (they estimate $30/console) and Joe Consumer really doesn't care as much as all the people bitching on the internet.
While I'll agree removing hardware BC makes good business sense (at least for a company that has gotten into as much trouble with its pricing as Sony), the article only assumes that Joe Consumer doesn't care about BC removal. Honestly, we don't really know how much they do care. BUT, the PS2 has "trained" people to expect BC from Sony (whether there's any evidence for it or not), and the Wii has downright spoiled people with an embarassment of BC. Not to mention all those register jockeys who include BC in their sales pitch. I can't say I know what Joe Consumer knows more than Next-Gen, but I'd guess they care more about BC than the article assumes.
I think the article's point would have made a lot more sense if it were, say, the PS2 getting its BC removed right before release.
Joe consumer might not care as much about BC but he won't be happy.
Sony has touted BC as a selling point of the PS3 since the get go. They have openly mocked MS for not having full BC.
Joe consumer won't read some press release on the net warning him that his PS3 is a pile of shit. What he will do is shell out 600 bucks for a console for little timmy, then go to the store cursing has he realizes he needs an HDMI cable. All will be fine for a week till he trys to play some old game and it doesn't work... he'll go bitch at the store and when he gets told "sorry chump it's not BC any more sony canned to that cut costs" he's going to be pretty pissed.
I remember the good old days when you bought a new games console to play the games designed for that system.
Really, if the PS3 launch lineup was better people wouldnt give a fuck about the backwards compatibility.
(Dunno how late I am, I left this overnight :P)
But see, one of the biggest factors is not having to blow $660 on a console AND game. I can buy a PS3, go home, hook it up, and fire up Final Fantasy 12 if I really wanted to. Same with the Wii, it was nice knowing when I get one, if I'm strapped for cash? I can come home, pop in Metroid Prime, and be just dandy.
The question is: What quantity of titles would be deemed even remotely acceptable for the people complaining about this?
What if it were only 100 titles... but they were the 100 best selling PS2 titles of all time? 200 titles? 500 titles? Equivalent to the Xbox 360? Twice that amount? Would any number other than complete and total compatibility stop the "bleeding"? If that's the case, should we still be up in arms about the 360?
Ok, here's the deal which I don't know if you know.
Sony can do hardware emulation. They've proven that with current PS3s. Microsoft, quite frankly, can't do hardware emulation and therefor is FORCE to use software emulation.
Sony has decided to use software emulation AFTER releasing the console. They did this to save costs to themselves, not for the consumer. Microsoft decided to use software emulation BEFORE releasing the 360. They did it to save themselves money and to make the 360 a lot cheaper to consumers (if I'm remembering correctly either ATI or NVIDIA was wanting huge amounts of money for chips for the 360 for emulation).
What's your point? That Sony are evil because they don't want to lose more money? Can I say the same thing about Microsoft dropping Xbox 1 production?
Besides, you do realise the faster Sony start earning a profit on the PS3, the faster we get a price drop right?
If ANY title that is emulated via hardware isn't able to be emulated on the new PS3s consumers have a right to complain. It doesn't matter if the 360 doesn't have perfect emulation. Microsoft never said it would. Sony, on the other hand, HAS said the PS3 will emulate 99% (something like that) of their back catalog. People have a right to be mad about them going back on there word, especially this late in the game.
No they didn't. If I remember correctly, at first they stated that backwards compatibility would be somewhere between 60-80% (this was probably before the hardware solution came to the table, which is why the current model is somewhere around 98%). The point is, they haven't been saying 99% from the start, they aimed much lower.
But they have been saying it lately. From where I'm sitting, that's all that really matters.
They didn't do that, they gave you a working console and fixed the upscaling problem too and they always said that the hardware solution would eventually be replaced by a software solution.
So stop your bitching.
can you actually provide sources on this?
Cause all I'm finding is "okay, so we're hearing rumors that supposedly sony's working on Software Emulation for backwards compatibility," but nothing along the lines of "okay, we're going to temporarily make BC hardware-based, but we're going to make it software-based less than 6 months down the line"
I'd go so far as ti say that when we did get hardware-based emulation, it was a safe assumption that this would be the way things would stay
According to SCE, it decided to mount the EE and GS on the PS3 to guarantee operation of certain game titles, which do not use the library recommended by SCE. The company, however, said the EE and GS will be "removed before long" (Kutaragi), indicating its will to comprehensively shift toward the compatibility secured by the emulator in a relatively short period of time.
Sony said that once they got the Emulation working better, they would remove the Emotion Engine.
They didn't say that they would remove it from the expensive PAL PS3s at launch (until a few days ago). And they aren't releasing the "limited" BC list until after launch.
I don't think anybody's claiming that the prospect of emulation wasn't ever raised. The real issues are:
- The launch PS3s had hardware emulation in the US and Japan, but they don't in Europe, despite PAL PS3s costing a lot more.
- The PS2's emulation is "limited"... but we won't know how limited until after the launch.
- They announced this emulation *the day after* their European and Australian media events. At the media events (where the mainstream press was present), there was nothing to suggest that BC would be in software.
Sony said that once they got the Emulation working better, they would remove the Emotion Engine.
They didn't say that they would remove it from the expensive PAL PS3s at launch (until a few days ago). And they aren't releasing the "limited" BC list until after launch.
Sometimes I'm so tempted to toss a Kevin Spacey Lex Luthor "WROOOOONG" at people.
The list will be available at launch. Not after launch. At launch. Phil Harrison said today that it would be available the day before launch - but take that one with a salt shaker.
So again, I'll ask - is 80% of the 2000 odd titles enough for the European audience?
With the way Sony have quoted "limited" number of PS2 titles against the fact that in retail surveys one of the major advantages the general public quoted the Ps3 had over the 360 was its more "robust" BC.
Its close call really but the backlash over the 360's tard BC back in Dec 05 will only magnitude its-self for the ps3 considering its massive EU install base, if the ps3's Bc ends up in a similar fashion.
I didn't think magnitude could be used as a verb - but since you're in a top hat, I'll buy it.
So essentially we're boiling it back down to "Well... this could really suck - if it sucks. If it doesn't suck, it'll suck less. See you in three weeks." M I Rite?
I didn't think magnitude could be used as a verb - but since you're in a top hat, I'll buy it.
So essentially we're boiling it back down to "Well... this could really suck - if it sucks. If it doesn't suck, it'll suck less. See you in three weeks." M I Rite?
Well i can guarantee there will be a lot of less than happy customers come launch, but in the end it will be a case of wait and see, it could be better than what we expect (probably won't be for atleast a few months after launch if the 360 is anything to go buy) but i do still have respect that sony knows a little about what they are doing.
I didn't think magnitude could be used as a verb - but since you're in a top hat, I'll buy it.
So essentially we're boiling it back down to "Well... this could really suck - if it sucks. If it doesn't suck, it'll suck less. See you in three weeks." M I Rite?
Well i can guarantee there will be a lot of less than happy customers come launch, but in the end it will be a case of wait and see, it could be better than what we expect (probably won't be for atleast a few months after launch if the 360 is anything to go buy) but i do still have respect that sony knows a little about what they are doing.
AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!
Besides, you do realise the faster Sony start earning a profit on the PS3, the faster we get a price drop right?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
My god, the optimism in this thread is really, really inspirational. Little Timmy with cancer inspirational.
However, I have a question:
Since Sony seems to be getting rid of PS3s with a PS2 on board, does that mean that some day down the line, the consoles on the shelves right now might actually be sought after for collectors and hackers alike? Will there be a huge demand for the initial PS3s that can play 99% of BC games? Will those with eye patches discover an exploit that opens up the PS3 to all things illegal and silly by using the PS2 chips?
Not knowing the exact ins-and-outs of the system, could there possibly be a game that is programmed to use the EE chip and the battery of PS3 chips? Is the EE delegated to only PS2 playback?
Ah, so I wasn't the only one puzzled by all the optimism. Price drop talk this soon? Dropping the EE, sony still takes a massive loss per PS3, even at the ridiculous AUS/EU prices.
And hell yeah the EE PS3 will be a collectors system.
Posts
Maybe they just want to see how much Europe and Australia will take before we finally snap. I get the feeling sometimes that the three big companies are trying to outdo each other in how much they can fuck over the PAL regions.
Maybe some guy in a top hat and monocle flipped off both miyamoto and kutaragi when they were kids.
From the god damn link in the freaking first post:
"The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models," a Sony spokesman said.
Sony (spokesman) says there is a decrease (see above phrase) in the number of titles PS3 can play (implied by saying "is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models).
The European launch is three weeks away. So your when is Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:29AM EST and your where is the Reuters article in the first post. Consider it cited. I think the Europeans can consider themselves duly warned.
All they have promised is that the list will be available some time on launch day.
So, the first source of backwards compatibility information will probably be user reports on web forums from people who have picked up their consoles at the midnight launch.
We refer to this as Caveat Emptor.
Wikipedia: "Under the doctrine of Caveat Emptor, the buyer could not recover from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects. The modern trend, however, is one of the Implied Warranty of Fitness that applies only to the sale of new residential housing by a builder-seller and the rule of Caveat Emptor applies to all other sale situations (i.e. homeowner to buyer)"
The bolded part is exactly what Sony is doing by NOT releasing the list beforehand. Also, I highly doubt they're going to announce this stateside when they start shipping out the new PS3s.
I'm not sure, by announcing that it won't support all games, it may be them trying to be in the letter of the law as it were.
however, they're pretty much beating up the Spirit of the Law, spitting on it, and then tossing it into a dumpster full of refuse.
Bullshit. The list will be available the day of purchase. The timing is horrible - and almost cruel, but it's still fucking available. So congratulations on doing the research but it's a real shame about your comprehension of it.
And let's be bloody frank here, it's a game system - with a return policy attached to it. You don't like it? A) don't buy it or
Buying it from a place that doesn't HAVE a return policy? Your poor choice for shopping there.
That being said - does it suck? Yes. Does it suck hard? Well, we'll know in three weeks. It's all smoke in the wind until then.
So, you expect this magic wonder list to go up 12:00:00AMGMT, right?
Which is then actually moot for the fact that people are likely going to camp out for it, with little to no access to a PC.
seriously, how hard is it to admit Sony has dropped the ball majorly, again, only to save themselves money and not pass this on at all to the consumer, especially when they already had a working form of BC.
Yes, I expect the Wunderlisztâ„¢ to be up by then.
Moot it may be, but a) get a frackin' PC, b) use a library or c) use your newfound webbrowser in your PS3 during the return policy.
It's probably pretty difficult. I imagine they have some sort of Tourettes-like syndrome that prevents them from admitting wrong. That being said - they are giving customers three weeks to get used to the idea that it may not play their copy of Crabby Adventure. If they were really going to stick it to the Man (er.. customer) they'd have waited until the day AFTER to announce it, quietly, and up until that point claim everything was "working as intended" or possibly that they were "looking into it"
Now that's that is said - I think we need a thread evaulating what it is about criticizing tech companies that makes some of us leap to their defence.
I couldn't really give a toss about this whole argument, but I still feel the need to toss up an argument. I'm terribly sorry about that.
Seriously, can no one defend the PS3 and not insult people in the process?
Look, this is a forum about games. People are going to discuss this stuff. Yes, no one has to buy it, but that doesn't stop people from being disgusted by this move and voicing their concerns.
This is a bait and switch on Sony's part. It gave them the ability to bash Microsoft's backwards compatibility and then go and then use similar methods anyway. It's not fair to consumers and rather disrespectful to their supporters. If they actually wanted to tell people about this they would release the BC list now instead of after the system launches in Europe. If they actually could emulate as large a portion of the BC as you're expecting they would have shipped the PS3s like this worldwide in the first place. This is a move of desperation or greed, not of necessity.
I apologize if that was insulting however it does appear that you did a great deal of research while completely missing the point. As someone who legally deals with issues of disclosure as well as bait and switch, I can tell you it is neither. You can continue to be adamant about it, however that doesn't make you any more correct. I would disagree with your statement that if they could do BC right they would have released it in the first place - clearly they were working on the solution and now they believe it's much closer to release quality.
You know, like the Xbox 360 did with patches after release? Interesting quality that, being able to upgrade something via software because, you know, it IS software.
It's not a move of "Greed". It's a move of fiscal responsibility. They're of the opinion that they can save money and cut a part.
Does it suck for some end users? Well, it might - again, three weeks. Does it suck for Sony? They're chopping out a 30 dollar part, which, if they sell a million units (like they have in North America and another million in Japan) that makes - wait for it, $30 Million.
Would you turn down 30 Million bucks?
A) Do you not realize how long ahead of time people start waiting in these lines? usually in the wee hours of the morning of the preceding day.
C) Three weeks notice is all well and good, but:
1) How many people are going to actually hear about this other than the internet gaming crowd? How many people are likely going to be told by Register jockies "Oh yeah, it'll play your old PS2 and PS1 games, so you can just trade that PS2 in for credit!"
D) Please don't toss out that "Crabby Adventure" stuff. As much as you say it, it won't be the crap that gets left out, it'll be just like the 360 and be whatever they can actually get to work, quality of the game be damned.
You're not sure? You don't like it? It makes you sad? DON'T BUY IT. No one's twisting your arm and forcing you to stand in line. If you want it that bad, you want it that bad.
Besides it's England/Europe. On average everyone there has two "mobiles" (not kidding, those are the numbers). Check the tubes via that.
There are people outside the internet gaming crowd? HEATHENS.
And hey, Crabby Adventure is apparently a good game. It's right up there with Barbie Horse Adventures.
Really, it's the job of the consumer to be prepared. Sony has performed their due diligence here - it's up to the consumer to do the same.
I agree that consumers should do their research, and this makes it all the more apparent. Heck, the guys at my local Gamestop, who are usually (Shockingly) really good with this stuff, are totally convinced the US PS3s don't use hardware for BC. I stopped trying to argue it with them. Sometimes one little piece of false info is all it takes to get everything screwed up. I don't like Sony's decision, but until I personally can evaluate how bad/good the software emulator is, I'm not going to feel the need to hate them with great vengeance.
Still, I feel bad for all those in Europe who won't find out about this until they get their system home. The market has gotten spat on by Sony just a bit, through no fault of their own. This generation is quite fascinating, especially because a year from now so many things could be so much different.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
Actually, we've simply sold 2 mobiles for every person in the UK. Doesn't mean all of them are still working.
Good luck on the former, after the Lik-Sang Incident. The latter is a better idea.
It is if you a) sat out the PS2 generation with another system, or b) your PS2 is broken, and you waited for the PS3's impending launch, so that you could get the best of both for your money.
1up.com checked into it with the US branch. They didn't really deny that later-model PS3s here wouldn't be that way as well.
I'd guess they're taking a simple gamble that their losses from this would be less than if they kept it.
Wait, what?
I could see this in like, a Best Buy or Future Shop or something, but...
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Besides, you do realise the faster Sony start earning a profit on the PS3, the faster we get a price drop right?
No they didn't. If I remember correctly, at first they stated that backwards compatibility would be somewhere between 60-80% (this was probably before the hardware solution came to the table, which is why the current model is somewhere around 98%). The point is, they haven't been saying 99% from the start, they aimed much lower.
Really, if the PS3 launch lineup was better people wouldnt give a fuck about the backwards compatibility.
not so. if someone had owned an Xbox and/or GameCube this generation, then they might consider getting a PS3 for PS2 and PS3 games.
Like how people who owned Xbox/PS2 were drawn to the Wii for Gamecube games they missed out on aswell as Wii games.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Shit.
The term is "piece of shit."
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
So it's not just a matter of picking on Sony. People care about this stuff.
Basically it says that it's good from a business standpoint because it'll save them money (they estimate $30/console) and Joe Consumer really doesn't care as much as all the people bitching on the internet.
While I'll agree removing hardware BC makes good business sense (at least for a company that has gotten into as much trouble with its pricing as Sony), the article only assumes that Joe Consumer doesn't care about BC removal. Honestly, we don't really know how much they do care. BUT, the PS2 has "trained" people to expect BC from Sony (whether there's any evidence for it or not), and the Wii has downright spoiled people with an embarassment of BC. Not to mention all those register jockeys who include BC in their sales pitch. I can't say I know what Joe Consumer knows more than Next-Gen, but I'd guess they care more about BC than the article assumes.
I think the article's point would have made a lot more sense if it were, say, the PS2 getting its BC removed right before release.
Sony has touted BC as a selling point of the PS3 since the get go. They have openly mocked MS for not having full BC.
Joe consumer won't read some press release on the net warning him that his PS3 is a pile of shit. What he will do is shell out 600 bucks for a console for little timmy, then go to the store cursing has he realizes he needs an HDMI cable. All will be fine for a week till he trys to play some old game and it doesn't work... he'll go bitch at the store and when he gets told "sorry chump it's not BC any more sony canned to that cut costs" he's going to be pretty pissed.
0087-5796-7152 (Jeremy, Heliord)
(Dunno how late I am, I left this overnight :P)
But see, one of the biggest factors is not having to blow $660 on a console AND game. I can buy a PS3, go home, hook it up, and fire up Final Fantasy 12 if I really wanted to. Same with the Wii, it was nice knowing when I get one, if I'm strapped for cash? I can come home, pop in Metroid Prime, and be just dandy.
But they have been saying it lately. From where I'm sitting, that's all that really matters.
You cannot compare what is important today with what was important back in Video Gaming's infant stages.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061108/123308/
Nov 8, last year.
I think that just about settles the argument. Well played indeed.
They didn't say that they would remove it from the expensive PAL PS3s at launch (until a few days ago). And they aren't releasing the "limited" BC list until after launch.
I don't think anybody's claiming that the prospect of emulation wasn't ever raised. The real issues are:
- The launch PS3s had hardware emulation in the US and Japan, but they don't in Europe, despite PAL PS3s costing a lot more.
- The PS2's emulation is "limited"... but we won't know how limited until after the launch.
- They announced this emulation *the day after* their European and Australian media events. At the media events (where the mainstream press was present), there was nothing to suggest that BC would be in software.
Sometimes I'm so tempted to toss a Kevin Spacey Lex Luthor "WROOOOONG" at people.
The list will be available at launch. Not after launch. At launch. Phil Harrison said today that it would be available the day before launch - but take that one with a salt shaker.
So again, I'll ask - is 80% of the 2000 odd titles enough for the European audience?
Its close call really but the backlash over the 360's tard BC back in Dec 05 will only magnitude its-self for the ps3 considering its massive EU install base, if the ps3's Bc ends up in a similar fashion.
So essentially we're boiling it back down to "Well... this could really suck - if it sucks. If it doesn't suck, it'll suck less. See you in three weeks." M I Rite?
Well i can guarantee there will be a lot of less than happy customers come launch, but in the end it will be a case of wait and see, it could be better than what we expect (probably won't be for atleast a few months after launch if the 360 is anything to go buy) but i do still have respect that sony knows a little about what they are doing.
AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
My god, the optimism in this thread is really, really inspirational. Little Timmy with cancer inspirational.
However, I have a question:
Since Sony seems to be getting rid of PS3s with a PS2 on board, does that mean that some day down the line, the consoles on the shelves right now might actually be sought after for collectors and hackers alike? Will there be a huge demand for the initial PS3s that can play 99% of BC games? Will those with eye patches discover an exploit that opens up the PS3 to all things illegal and silly by using the PS2 chips?
Not knowing the exact ins-and-outs of the system, could there possibly be a game that is programmed to use the EE chip and the battery of PS3 chips? Is the EE delegated to only PS2 playback?
I tells ya, the mind boggles.....
And hell yeah the EE PS3 will be a collectors system.