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How to tell a friend he's making a huge mistake proposing
mrt144
King of the NumbernamesRegistered User regular
King of the NumbernamesRegistered User regular
So theres a friend who is planning on proposing to a girl who the rest of the friend group think is a terrible mate; She is shallow, materialistic, self centered. How do we voice our concerns and disapproval without crushing him? This is his first serious GF and we're all 27 and 2 of us are already married ( myself included). I have the biggest balls so I'm gonna be leading the posse but i need some help here.
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It's your friend's life. If he likes her, he likes her. Unless you have evidence that she plans on killing him soon after marriage or is just using and manipulating him, I don't see why you need to say anything at all. He can make his own choices.
Honestly it sounds like you guys don't like her more from a personality standpoint, and really that's pretty selfish of you. "Hey, we don't like your GF and you shouldn't marry her." Like I said, if there's not evidence that she plans on doing something nefarious, just stay out of it.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hyacinthgames/a-tabletop-rpg-and-board-games-project-from-chicag
She was insulted by the prospect of a 15k engagement ring. So now he's looking at a 30k ring, cashing in stock options he'll receive from an IPO in a few months.
It's not just that we don't like her because of her obvious materialistic ways, it's that this is the only girlfriend he's ever had and she has a "2 year rule" and he's coming up against that.
Nothing more than general ribbing that a lot of lads do. I mean, we wanted him to enjoy having his first relationship, just not be his only relationship.
Bite your tongue and hope for the best, but if he comes to you, go ahead and voice your concern.
As much as I would want to offer my opinion, I dont think its my place.
That being said you can voice your concerns in a more tactful way than "hey man we all think your girl is kind of a greedy bitch."
First of all don't do it as a group; that just becomes accusatory and will make him defensive. Talk to him on your own and focus the discussion on you being worried about him, rather than about you disliking her. i.e. 'hey man I'm worried about you because it seems like you're really rushing things with X and you've been acting strange about it.'
The catch is that you have to be prepared to accept his response. Ultimately he's going to do what he wants; you're adults and that's appropriate. It doesn't make you wrong for bringing it up.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
With that said, you need to make your feelings known. Not the feelings of the group, but your feelings. This isn't "on you" to speak for your friends, it's on you to share your opinion and make peace with the fact that you think one way and he seems to think another. Because we don't have a lot of information, I have to approach this with skepticism as the only information really given is that she wants an expensive ring and that you don't really like this woman. To be a bit of a goose, you aren't the one proposing.
Talk to him and let him know you have some serious reservations. Encourage your friends to do the same. The worst-case seems to me to be if you all ganged up on him and started to berate him for his life choices. I can say with near certainty that there isn't a person on this planet who would react well to an intervention of this sort.
Really, it isn't your place to do much more. I think a good deal of us have "lost" a friend to a controlling or otherwise isolating spouse. It sucks, yes, but you can scream and pound your fists all day without making anything more than a racket full of negativity that will further splinter your relationship with this guy.
That being said, you have to be ready to accept it when he almost certainly says something like "This is my decision to make, and I'm marrying her." It can be difficult to talk to friends, especially if they're the type of friends that you don't have deep or personal talks with very much anyway. I would recommended that if you must do it as a group, then as a group take him out for a night of fun where you all cover all of his expenses and bring it up close to the beginning, and then say that either way, we're going to have an awesome evening...or something like that, anyway. Find a way to show him (not just tell him) that this doesn't mean he's less of a friend or that you'll be angry in any way, no matter what he chooses, but personally, I would probably try to do it on a more individual basis. As previous posters have said: it's less threatening.
But...
You call yourself a "posse," and while I assume that is tongue-in-cheek, I wonder. Keep in mind that this is his life and his decision and even if the entire world thinks it is a bad decision, ultimately it is what he thinks that matters most in his decision making process. You can try to change what he thinks or sees, but don't demand that he sees things your way. I would never stop talking to someone because they voiced a concern to me, but I would if they were obnoxiously insistent.
Also, be subtle about it. You make it sound like you need to have an intervention with the guy. That is probably not the smartest way to go about it. For one thing, it's condescending. While you may be right that this girl is bad for him or just bad in general or whatever, it's condescending to essentially gang up and tell your friend that you think you know what's better for him than he does. Nobody likes that in any context. What you tell him may essentially amount to the same thing, but it's all in the delivery.
If you feel compelled to tell him how you feel, and this compulsion is primarily driven by a desire not to see your friend hurt, then go ahead and tell him. But be diplomatic about it, and as someone else said, be prepared to lose the friendship because that may very well happen and depending on how you convey the information may make that happening more or less likely.
Don't beat yourself up for it. It was never your responsibility, and there is no telling that he would have listened to you or seen anything from your perspective anyway. It's not YOUR fault that your cousin is in this emotional state. Not even 0.00000000000001%. So don't blame yourself.
All of this is likely to raise suspicion on his part. You need to be ready to tell him that you're concerned without laying the blame on her. If he gets defensive, come from a place of friendliness; you just want to make sure he's happy. [/quote]
This is probably the best advice. I do think that, if you have honest concerns, you should voice them. I also think you should be prepared to lose him as a friend if you push too hard and he's not willing to listen.
Frankly, having heard only what you've said, I don't blame you for wanting to step in. She sounds like she's not a terribly great person.
A 30 K ring though... lol
Have you talked to her about it? Ask her. In front of him. Ask her why she'd rather have a pretty chip of carbon than a college fund for their kids. Ask her if she loves him why it matters. In front of him.
Maybe ask her if this is why no one else has ever given in to her "2 year rule"
[e]
It varies by state who is legally entitled to that ring if the engagement is called off. I would suggest looking into that as well, OP.
I have to agree on the absurdity.
But please be prepared to lose a friend. These things hardly ever end well.
this is pretty much a terrible idea
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The end.
Allowing that the last bit was not a serious suggestion, how so?
She should be a part of the conversation, and these are perfectly reasonable questions.
I'll agree with most of the comments above and repost a couple of 'em.
- Ask your friend if he is ready, or if he's jumping out ahead because of the 2-year rule. Which is ridiculous, most people who are current married had known/dated their spouse for far longer than 2 years before the question was popped. You cannot put a timeline on love.
- I like the comment that was made asking if you're willing to sacrifice children's college fund/your retirement fund for the rock.
I've had a friend in this situation before. He told us straight up that his girlfriend (then fiance, then wife, now ex-wife) told him the first ring he got was too small. ALL of us knew at that point that this marriage wasn't going to end well, but I honestly don't know what we could have said to make him change his mind. Maybe "she doesn't love you, she loves the idea of being married and status".
I wish you the best of luck, though.
One more question, is she the type that actively holds him back from being with his friends? (you?) IF so, that's another piece of something to talk about.
Yeah, I forgot about that, good point.
You don't see how calling her out in front of him over the cost of an engagement ring is a bad idea? She will attack the OP, the friend will HAVE to side with her and bam, the whole thing is over. I agree with almost everyone else though. I would mention it to him once, and then let it go. It's his mistake to make and he's going to make it regardless of your intervention. Mentioning your reservations today is not about getting him to change his mind, that's probably impossible. It's so that when things fall apart, you can be there for him with a clean conscience.
That's not even a thing. I can see .30 ct being more realistic because they're between $500-1000.
Dude, air your grievances to your friend. It sounds like he's going to either going to end up paying a shit ton of alimony or have his soul crushed by this harpy.
But seriously, this is a tricky situation. Your best bet is just to talk to him about it in general, ask him about his feelings, if he is sure, etc. If he then asks you your opinion, you can let him know that you arent convinced shes the one and your worried. But going in as a group and kicking his door down yelling "DONT MARRY THIS BITCH!" is not the way to go.
I had a friend who was planning to propose to a woman that demanded a $25,000 dollar ring or no engagement.
They are in fact married now, but that was years after all that and I don't know if he actually went through with that. I hope not.
I would use the ring issue as an icebreaker to voice your opinion. Do it one on one (not as a posse, he'll think it's an intervention or something) and make sure you aren't attacking her, because he will probably clam up/defend her and it'll get awkward. He's cashing in potentially VERY lucrative stock options to get her something a bit more sparkly? ask him if that is really in their best interests as a couple, or something like that. Say things to make him confront these shortcomings you think she has. Be aware, this could end really badly for your friendship, but sometimes a guy needs his buddy to snap him back to reality when he's in a shitty relationship.
Personally, if i offered a lady a 15k ring and she scoffed at it, i'd be out the door faster than charlie sheen at an intervention.
C) If you're still determined to try it, this ring situation is your best way in, assuming this guy isn't crazy. Good luck.
So understand that your friend probably already understands how bad the relationship is, but instead of paying attention to those red flags, he's been coming up with excuses to justify going ahead. Be patient, be compassionate, and if he just won't listen, let him make his own mistakes and drop it. And if and when this relationship goes up in flames, do not be the guy that's telling him, "I told you so!"
My best friend (who is quite... frank) did this over a lunch with me and a couple in a similar (if reduced in scale) situation. Was the guy mortified? Yes. Did it cause an argument later? Yes. Did that argument lead to a conversation that led to her accepting the ring he could afford over the ring she dreamed of? Also yes.
It doesn't have to turn into a argument at the table, I agree that that's bad (despite my initial tone). The goal is to simply broach the subject and feel her out. She may even have semi-legit reasoning as opposed to being driven by pure materialism. Some women see the the cost of the ring as a sort of security deposit to help ease trust/abandonment issues. Doesn't make them bad people, and if that's why then he can work with that. If the real problem here is that he doesn't have the balls to start this conversation himself, then the goal is to help start it.
It is his first girlfriend, and she's probably holding all the cards. It seems quite likely that he has not had this conversation with her in earnest.
Essentially, you don't really have any real reasons to object to this marriage. Unless there's more here going on other than the fact that you don't really like her personality, I think you should keep your mouth shut.
You're not going to like all of your friends' spouses, but you're not the one marrying them. Your friend is an adult and he's more than capable of making his own decisions.
Rigorous Scholarship
While there is a certain truth to this, if he does feel strong enough to bring this up here looking for advice it is probably better he points it out to his friend, rightly or wrongly. The OP clearly has compassion for his friend and a sense of loyalty to him, talking about it, if only to be told why his friend truly loves this girl, is something that needs to be done for the sake of their relationship as friends. It may well end the friendship, true, but if they can't be honest with each other then it's no kind of friendship that should last.
But if you feel like someone you care about is making a huge mistake, you should talk to them about it. To learn why your perception is incorrect, or to ensure that your friend is aware of your feelings.
My advice would be to tactfully tell your friend about your reservations, and then let him come to you. Don't press it, but definitely make your opinion known, once, as politely as possible. After that, support and love him like you already do.
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