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Infraction System

TubeTube Registered User admin
This is a thread to comment on any aspects of the infraction system. It is NOT a place to complain about infractions. Any attempts to do so will become ironic very fast.

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    AroducAroduc regular
    edited February 2007
    Does BBCode in the post still work for jailed users? Or are we under the old system where all their posts are suddenly gigantic messes and spoilers are opened etc etc?

    Aroduc on
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    HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Since breaking the h-scroll only breaks that one post does it really warrant punishment?

    I mean the most annoying thing about it was that it meant you'd have to scroll left to right to read any post that came after it, but that's gone now.

    HoA-player on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited February 2007
    BBcode is kept.

    Echo on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    BBCode still works at the moment, and the post timer is currently the same. This may change in the future.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    HoA-player wrote: »
    Since breaking the h-scroll only breaks that one post does it really warrant punishment?

    I mean the most annoying thing about it was that it meant you'd have to scroll left to right to read any post that came after it, but that's gone now.


    It's only an example, but you're right. Breaking the H-Scroll is still obnoxious in some circumstances though.

    Tube on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    CT wrote:
    Minor infractions stay on your record for one month, major infractions for two. This means that the effective minimum jail sentence is two months.

    I'm just curious, but...what if you go up to "jailed" level with a minor infraction like five minutes before one of your older minor infractions wears off? Wouldn't that undo the jailing right there?

    I don't really plan to start breaking rules, just wondering about the system.

    Defender on
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    IncessantAbuseIncessantAbuse Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Well, I sent the " administrator " ( I assume it went to you Tube, oh man, did that influence you to make the thread? ) a PM through the " You have been banned from this forum " page, and it essentially said that I was trying to browse the forums through a college campus, and the IP had been banned. I was wondering if there were any possibilities of allowing banned users to browse the forums, but not post or log in or what have you?

    IncessantAbuse on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    A new minor infraction would extend the time of the previous infraction. A major infraction is auto jail anyway

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    Well, I sent the " administrator " ( I assume it went to you Tube, oh man, did that influence you to make the thread? ) a PM through the " You have been banned from this forum " page, and it essentially said that I was trying to browse the forums through a college campus, and the IP had been banned. I was wondering if there were any possibilities of allowing banned users to browse the forums, but not post or log in or what have you?

    If the IP isn't banned, you can still view the forums.

    Tube on
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    IncessantAbuseIncessantAbuse Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Er, yeah, that's what I meant, IP bans being able to browse the forums, sorry.

    IncessantAbuse on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Get rid of the whole "jail" thing.

    Also, how long does it takes for infraction points to be removed?

    Meiz on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Meiz wrote: »
    Get rid of the whole "jail" thing.

    I'd say leave jailing, but allow jailed users to use BBCode (which seems to currently be the case). Maybe fiddle with the post timer, but disallowing people from using quotes and spoilers can just make some threads a pain in the ass.

    Basically, jailing at this point just serves as a very official and public warning that your ass is moving towards a banning. Works for me.

    Also, if a mod were so inclined they could still do shorter jail sentences, by simple adding the infraction then removing it (say, a couple days later), right?

    mcdermott on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    Guys, please read the announcement and previous posts. They can still post BB code.

    Minor infractions last a month, major for two. Moderators can't remove infractions.

    Tube on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    So it removes the 3 points after a month but does it remove them sequentially, or all at once?

    I like the time it takes to have one's account go back to normal.

    Meiz on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I understand what you are trying to do... I really do.

    But think about this. Posting 4 H-scroll breaking images within the span of 4 months = being permenantly banned from the forum.

    Something about this seems off to me. I read through the post.. and all I gathered was how much harsher it was than the old system. The inability to make new threads or edit your old ones especially comes across as harsh.

    Also, is this system automatic, or is the ability to apply infractions up to the moderators? IE, will the infractions be different, and thus the standards different, across the various sub-forums? This was one of the biggest complaints in the past with the jailing/banning system, and this would be a perfect time to correct that...

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    It removes the whole infraction. So after a month from a minor infraction, two points will be taken away, and after two months from a major, three points will.

    If you have two points, and a day before they're removed you get another infraction, you'll have four points until the second infraction is removed. That's the theory anyway.

    Tube on
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    StarfuckStarfuck Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2007
    Actaully, nevermind, sorry.

    Starfuck on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Athenor wrote: »
    I understand what you are trying to do... I really do.

    But think about this. Posting 4 H-scroll breaking images within the span of 4 months = being permenantly banned from the forum.

    Something about this seems off to me. I read through the post.. and all I gathered was how much harsher it was than the old system. The inability to make new threads or edit your old ones especially comes across as harsh.

    Also, is this system automatic, or is the ability to apply infractions up to the moderators? IE, will the infractions be different, and thus the standards different, across the various sub-forums? This was one of the biggest complaints in the past with the jailing/banning system, and this would be a perfect time to correct that...
    If you're fucking stupid enough to post a fourth H-scroll breaking image after getting nailed for it 3 times, you deserve to be perma-banned.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "automatic." Do you mean will the board detect you have committed an infraction, and cite you for it? No. Do you mean that it will be up to a moderator's discretion whether or not to issue an infraction? Yes.

    Thanatos on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I bring it up as an extreme example...

    Personally, I'm just sitting here thinking of posting in the desktop threads. I know you wouldn't get nailed in there.. but technically.. you know.

    My point is, however, that without a set definition of all the minor and major infractions, there's a lot of room for abuse -- especially over the span of 1/3 of a year.

    Also, is it just me, or do none of the mods have tags or flags to let people know they are mods?

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    Athenor wrote: »
    Also, is this system automatic, or is the ability to apply infractions up to the moderators? IE, will the infractions be different, and thus the standards different, across the various sub-forums? This was one of the biggest complaints in the past with the jailing/banning system, and this would be a perfect time to correct that...

    The rules are different in various subforums, so obviously there'll be different standards. Giving someone an infraction for using an ad hominem in SE would be retarded.

    As far as it being overly harsh, it's only overly harsh on people who consistently break the rules. Thanatos is right, while breaking the H scroll (bearing in mind it would have to be in an exceptionally obnoxious way) is minor, if you've been told not to do it twice and you do it a third time, you could use the temp ban to learn not to be an idiot. If you then come back and do the same thing within two weeks of being unbanned, I have no sympathy at all. H-scroll offences are a bad example, they'll rarely be an issue. A better example is grifter, who today gave someone an infraction for making a thread in AC and refusing to accept any criticism (which is a grave error I understand). All he gets this time is a note telling him not to do it, and two points. If he does it twice more, he's clearly stupid.

    In a way it's LESS harsh than the jail system, because only serious offences result in an instant jail. Posting in a spam thread for instance, can now be effectively punished with a minor infraction. It also punishes consistent misbehaviour. With the jail system, some users were either permanently jailed or jailed over and over again, and it was too hard to keep track of who'd been jailed, when, why, and how many times.

    Tube on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Athenor wrote: »
    I bring it up as an extreme example...

    Personally, I'm just sitting here thinking of posting in the desktop threads. I know you wouldn't get nailed in there.. but technically.. you know.

    My point is, however, that without a set definition of all the minor and major infractions, there's a lot of room for abuse -- especially over the span of 1/3 of a year.
    There was a lot of room for abuse under the old system of being able to ban/jail people for as long as we wanted, too.
    Also, is it just me, or do none of the mods have tags or flags to let people know they are mods?
    None of the mods have tags or flags to let people know they're mods.

    Personally, I like it this way, but I doubt it'll stick around. It's on Ramius' to-do list.

    Thanatos on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I'm having a hard time coming up with any input that would improve this system.

    I like it.

    Meiz on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    Athenor wrote: »
    My point is, however, that without a set definition of all the minor and major infractions, there's a lot of room for abuse -- especially over the span of 1/3 of a year.

    Only mods are capable of issuing infractions, and infractions are logged stringently. Yes, there's room for abuse, but all abuse is logged, moderators can't edit or delete the logs and any abuse will be punished. ANY mod tool can be abused, the infraction system is easily the hardest.

    Setting a definition for minor and major infractions doesn't allow for context, and is likely to lead to people trying to play the system, as they did with the original jail system. Besides, it'll only lead to people saying "but that infraction isn't on the list!".

    Tube on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    There's also less room for abuse because once an infraction is given, not only is it logged, but the moderator can't undo it. If they give someone an infraction for something stupid, they have to actually come to me and ask me to fix their error, and get shouted at. Infractions are going to require a lot more thought from moderators, if anything.

    Tube on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Can users see how many infraction points other users have? Like in their profiles or something?

    deadonthestreet on
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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    *nods* Sounds good. I just needed to hear the system vetted, and what checks and balances were in place.

    I'm still a little iffy on the time periods involved, especially the resetting of the time for a new infraction, but anything that would shorten that fairly would be overly complicated to cover all the exceptions and weirdness.

    So yeah. This is good.

    Will SE++ still be maintaining its unique list of bannings, separate from the forum as a whole?

    Athenor on
    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    None of the mods have tags or flags to let people know they're mods.

    Personally, I like it this way, but I doubt it'll stick around. It's on Ramius' to-do list.

    I don't mind it either. For one, anybody who's been around a bit knows who most of the mods are, and can look it up if they don't. Two, if any regular tells you you're breaking the rules and/or being an unforgivable asshat, you should probably listen...mod or no.

    Plus this way probably cuts down on the "oh, you just think you'll win the argument because you're a mod" shit we see from new folks in D&D. Because, you know, we don't play that way. Hell, in most forums mods expect to be treated and reacted to just like anybody else in normal conversation...the only time they play "mod" is if they're actually telling you to shut the hell up because you're breaking the rules.


    As for infractions, I think the system will work out all right. I'd like to see a fairly extensive use of the "yellow card" system...I think a lot of times people do piddly shit that isn't even worth a minor infraction, but if somebody is obviously doing it enough (and I'm guessing any mod would be able to see their warning record) then "real" infractions could of course be issued.

    Basically, it looks like it gives an "official" and conveniently recorded sanction short of jailing, which I like. This way when I stumble into H/A drunk and say something stupid, I might get off with only a minor infraction and assuming I can go a month without doing it again I never have to end up jailed.

    mcdermott on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    Can users see how many infraction points other users have? Like in their profiles or something?

    Not as far as I can see. The only real sign is that if they're jailed or banned, it's obvious from their whole profile.

    Tube on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    What exactly would be considered to be breaking H-Scroll? I'm using a widescreen laptop and I rarely see anything break it, but I'm assuming that a lot of people have much lower resolutions.

    jothki on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited February 2007
    Athenor wrote: »
    Will SE++ still be maintaining its unique list of bannings, separate from the forum as a whole?

    Hasn't been such a thing since the forum split got merged again. There's a "who got banned" thread in SE++ where banned SE++ers get posted, but the bans were global.

    Echo on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    jothki wrote: »
    What exactly would be considered to be breaking H-Scroll? I'm using a widescreen laptop and I rarely see anything break it, but I'm assuming that a lot of people have much lower resolutions.

    Anything that breaks the scroll at 1024 counts. It's barely an issue now, because h scroll breaks only effect one post, but it can still be obnoxious.

    A better example would be posting an enormous (in file size) image or gif.

    Tube on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    jothki wrote: »
    What exactly would be considered to be breaking H-Scroll? I'm using a widescreen laptop and I rarely see anything break it, but I'm assuming that a lot of people have much lower resolutions.
    Anything that breaks the scroll at 1024 counts. It's barely an issue now, because h scroll breaks only effect one post, but it can still be obnoxious.

    A better example would be posting an enormous (in file size) image or gif.
    Honestly, I don't see myself punishing anyone for being a few pixels over.

    If I have to scroll 15" to see the end of the image, though, I'm gonna lay the smack down.

    Thanatos on
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited February 2007
    People quoting a post with lots of screenshots?

    EAT FLAMING MOD FIST.

    Echo on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    What exactly would be considered to be breaking H-Scroll? I'm using a widescreen laptop and I rarely see anything break it, but I'm assuming that a lot of people have much lower resolutions.
    Anything that breaks the scroll at 1024 counts. It's barely an issue now, because h scroll breaks only effect one post, but it can still be obnoxious.

    A better example would be posting an enormous (in file size) image or gif.
    Honestly, I don't see myself punishing anyone for being a few pixels over.

    If I have to scroll 15" to see the end of the image, though, I'm gonna lay the smack down.

    People breaking the h-scroll by a couple pixels with an image doesn't bother me. People breaking the h-scroll just because they're too lazy to figure out how the URL tag works...ban them, then go over to their house and ass-rape them.

    Especially since they often tend to be the same ones that break the h-scroll by considerable margins. Modern URL links can be fucking ginormous.
    Echo wrote:
    People quoting a post with lots of screenshots?

    EAT FLAMING MOD FIST.

    Oh, that too. That's just a matter of being to lazy to go back and "*snip*" the images out. I try to almost never quote "real" images (as opposed to emoticon-type images) if I can help it.

    mcdermott on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I can post in the Infractions Log, but I'm not allowed to.

    Evil!

    Meiz on
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    HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    mcdermott wrote: »
    People breaking the h-scroll by a couple pixels with an image doesn't bother me. People breaking the h-scroll just because they're too lazy to figure out how the URL tag works...ban them, then go over to their house and ass-rape them.

    Especially since they often tend to be the same ones that break the h-scroll by considerable margins. Modern URL links can be fucking ginormous.

    That's not an issue since the board cuts those links short anyway.

    If you are not a mod, DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD. Your post will be deleted and you'll receive an infraction.

    Can't you just lock it like all the rules and who got banned threads?
    So only mods can post in it anyway.

    HoA-player on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited February 2007
    permissions in vbulletin suck

    Tube on
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    HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    fair enough

    HoA-player on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    HoA-player wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    People breaking the h-scroll by a couple pixels with an image doesn't bother me. People breaking the h-scroll just because they're too lazy to figure out how the URL tag works...ban them, then go over to their house and ass-rape them.

    Especially since they often tend to be the same ones that break the h-scroll by considerable margins. Modern URL links can be fucking ginormous.

    That's not an issue since the board cuts those links short anyway.


    Oh. Spiffy. I'm liking this new board more and more.

    mcdermott on
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    thorgotthorgot there is special providence in the fall of a sparrowRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I like this system, though I probably should have read it over when it was posted.

    thorgot on
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