World War Hulk Thread: Don't Be Fucking Ninnies

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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Wildcat wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    But hey, if ad hominems helps you sleep well at night in mommy´s basement, good luck to you.
    'Pokemon kid' is somehow a more refined insult?

    All I can say is "LOL at making fun of the guy who likes pokemon on a comic book forum where you're arguing about a giant green man".
    Glass houses and such.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    000op2705it3.jpg

    On a side note. Why does Galactus speak like a caveman? You'd think that an essential, ultrapowerful, cosmic entitity would atleast have basic grammar mastered.


    Also concerning JCM's list of why Reed and Tony are douche-bags. Isn't nearly everything that they do done under the assumption that things will come out right in the end? I mean I know that Reed is myopic when it comes to the pursuit of scientific inquiry, but do you really believe that if he didn't go into all of his expirment's assuming the best would come out? I mean he might not win father, or husband of the year, and some of his studies have gone horribly wrong -- but atleast he works to fix it rather than leaving it be like a true super-villian likely would do.


    Can somone give me the low-down (a unbiased one at that) on why Reed let's Doom out of hell? There's gotta be more of a reason besides he was bored one day and decided to fuck up the world again, like most people paint it as.

    DharmaBum on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Can somone give me the low-down (a unbiased one at that) on why Reed let's Doom out of hell? There's gotta be more of a reason besides he was bored one day and decided to fuck up the world again, like most people paint it as.
    It's actually Thor's Hammer that does it, but who's counting?

    Fencingsax on
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  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    On a side note. Why does Galactus speak like a caveman? You'd think that an essential, ultrapowerful, cosmic entitity would atleast have basic grammar mastered.
    Aside from the likelihood that each species just hears him in their own language, he's not really mangling his grammar other than referring to himself in the third person, is he?

    Wildcat on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Can somone give me the low-down (a unbiased one at that) on why Reed let's Doom out of hell? There's gotta be more of a reason besides he was bored one day and decided to fuck up the world again, like most people paint it as.
    It's actually Thor's Hammer that does it, but who's counting?

    Apparently everyone becuase Reed's a cocksucker becuase HE let Doom out of hell!

    DharmaBum on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I think the issue with condemning Hulk while defending Reed/Stark is that up until the whole "olol mass murder retcon", the Hulk has killed (directly or indirectly) only a handfull of people... and most of those were in self defense (like Trauma). And as many here have noted, the Hulk is not even close to the only hero that's engaged in city destroying rumbles. So retconning him into causing the death of hundreds means you've retconned others to the same, there is no way to avoid it, it just hasn't come up with the others yet since they look better and are more PR friendly than the Hulk is.

    But at the base of it, the Hulk has always done what he has felt is right, just like Reed, and even Stark when he's not a drunken bastard. So to say it's ok for Reed to open up the gate to dimension X of infinite hoards of murderous beasts is ok... just so long as he meant well and is fairly certain he can close up the gateway before the earth is completely obliterated... or that Stark is OK fine to create and sell munitions at a whim, mind wipe the planet, blow up a bunch of people while drunk, or even illegally break into a federally run prison to "take back" his armor tech since he felt miffed for that run that other people were using it... yet, to say that the Hulk, when he was minding his own business and was put in direct danger NOT of his own choosing is not allowed to defend himself... is pretty idiotic.

    Yes, he's caused massive property damage, and even taken some lives with this retcon.. but he's no more guilty than Stark, Reed, Thor, The Thing, most of the X-Men/Avengers.. etc.

    And yet they get government jobs serving the peace, or at least the option to do so, yet they fire the Hulk into space with no warning.


    The reasons are simple for them. They know he won't play by their rules, and if they can't use him and control him, they want rid of him, and they know that they can't keep him confined like they can others... so instead of him getting a pass like Dr Strange, they simply choose to trick him and fire him into space.

    EclecticGroove on
  • ZeroCowZeroCow Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Also concerning JCM's list of why Reed and Tony are douche-bags. Isn't nearly everything that they do done under the assumption that things will come out right in the end? I mean I know that Reed is myopic when it comes to the pursuit of scientific inquiry, but do you really believe that if he didn't go into all of his expirment's assuming the best would come out? I mean he might not win father, or husband of the year, and some of his studies have gone horribly wrong -- but atleast he works to fix it rather than leaving it be like a true super-villian likely would do.
    Sorta like Hitler? (Not really the best example (actually a really bad one), but good intentions doesn't give someone a free pass to be an asshole)

    :edit: What EclecticGroove said.

    ZeroCow on
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  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    But the diffrence between the Hulk and Dr. Strange is that Strange is generally in controll of his powers. Once the Hulk becomes enraged theres not much he or anyone else can do about it untill he calms down. So they can give Strange a pass, becuase he won't bend to Tony/Reed's will but it can also be reasonably assumed that he's not going to rampage and destroy cities, whereas there is reason to assume that while the Hulk is on Earth that he could become enraged again. Even if it's not his fault that he does, it can be assumed that he is eventually going to rampage again.

    So yea while other heroes cause collateral damage they do, or atleast they are precived by the general public to have control of their powers. So yea Reed was justified in shooting the Hulk into space, what he was not justified in doing was putting the bomb on the ship.

    In any event, am I the only one who hates how Reed is being written now? I mean it just seems like he being a dick for the sake of being a dick. All because what? His uncle or somthing was targeted by HUAC?

    DharmaBum on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    But the diffrence between the Hulk and Dr. Strange is that Strange is generally in controll of his powers. Once the Hulk becomes enraged theres not much he or anyone else can do about it untill he calms down. So they can give Strange a pass, becuase he won't bend to Tony/Reed's will but it can also be reasonably assumed that he's not going to rampage and destroy cities, whereas there is reason to assume that while the Hulk is on Earth that he could become enraged again. Even if it's not his fault that he does, it can be assumed that he is eventually going to rampage again.

    So yea while other heroes cause collateral damage they do, or atleast they are precived by the general public to have control of their powers. So yea Reed was justified in shooting the Hulk into space, what he was not justified in doing was putting the bomb on the ship.

    In any event, am I the only one who hates how Reed is being written now? I mean it just seems like he being a dick for the sake of being a dick. All because what? His uncle or somthing was targeted by HUAC?


    I'd disagree with that assessment however. I don't think Reed and co were justified as the recent Hulk persona's have only been an issue under extreme circumstances (you think anyone else would have reacted well to a gamma bomb to the face?). They coerced him out of peacful seclusion and into this mess. Why not just monitor him and make sure no one bugs him, as very few are dumb enough to try, and those who would be would either get their asses handed to them or at least be identified by shields watchdogs.

    EclecticGroove on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited June 2007
    I've lost count of the number of times Iron Man has lost control of his armour. It's happening twice at this very moment (Hypervelocity and Mighty Avengers), and happened in his own comic a few months ago.

    And how many times has Reed screwed up an experiment or a trip to the negative zone that ended up outside of his control?

    Bogart on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    But how much easier is Tony's armor to stop, than a rampaging Hulk? How do you calm down the Hulk?

    Look I'm not saying that Reed/Tony and co. are saints here. All I'm saying is the Hulk isn't either.

    DharmaBum on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Which Hulk was shot into space? He seems to bounce back from beserker original Hulk to the smarter versions frequently. I really need to track down the issues leading up to PH.

    Malkor on
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  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    But how much easier is Tony's armor to stop, than a rampaging Hulk? How do you calm down the Hulk?

    Look I'm not saying that Reed/Tony and co. are saints here. All I'm saying is the Hulk isn't either.

    No he isn't, and that can't be argued.

    However, what makes him the scapegoat that's justifiable to send into space with no trial or options when those who made the choice have been accountable for similar or greater levels of destruction and/or death?


    Strange is certainly not on the same level, but he at least knows it was not a good idea and admits his feelings of guilt.

    EclecticGroove on
  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Malkor wrote: »
    Which Hulk was shot into space? He seems to bounce back from beserker original Hulk to the smarter versions frequently. I really need to track down the issues leading up to PH.

    The current incarnation of the Hulk was living peacfully with Banner in a fairly cooperative lifestyle in Alaska.


    Currently the Hulk persona is like the Savage Hulk with the Grey Hulk personality.. albeit with a more aggressive tint to it. He can be reasoned with and is rational, but he can go into a fairly berserker fury when mad, but he's learning to control that a bit more now.

    EclecticGroove on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    However, what makes him the scapegoat that's justifiable to send into space with no trial or options when those who made the choice have been accountable for similar or greater levels of destruction and/or death?

    But if everything had gone according to the plan it would've all worked out for the best would it not have? I mean Reed is the "smartest man alive." If you're not gunna trust him to send a gamma powered hero to a distant planet then who are you going to?

    (and yes I know that noone has worse luck when it comes to space travel than Reed, I was being Ironic.)

    DharmaBum on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Can somone give me the low-down (a unbiased one at that) on why Reed let's Doom out of hell? There's gotta be more of a reason besides he was bored one day and decided to fuck up the world again, like most people paint it as.
    It's actually Thor's Hammer that does it, but who's counting?

    Apparently everyone becuase Reed's a cocksucker becuase HE let Doom out of hell!

    The Hammer was later.

    Doom was in hell, punished for his sins, and actually ahd accepted his fate. reed got him out of hell, Doom took over the Thing´s mind, and Reed killed the thing, before sending Doom to hell.

    Doom thanks Reed for letting him know he CAN get out of hell, and in Civil War, we see him fighting his way out when the hammer opens a shortcut.

    If it werent for reed, Doom wouldve been there, taking his punishment. The Thing wouldnt have been shot. ;-)
    Can somone give me the low-down (a unbiased one at that) on why Reed let's Doom out of hell? There's gotta be more of a reason besides he was bored one day and decided to fuck up the world again, like most people paint it as.
    Reed wanted to imprision him elsewhere other than leave him in Hell.
    ZeroCow wrote: »
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    Also concerning JCM's list of why Reed and Tony are douche-bags. Isn't nearly everything that they do done under the assumption that things will come out right in the end? I mean I know that Reed is myopic when it comes to the pursuit of scientific inquiry, but do you really believe that if he didn't go into all of his expirment's assuming the best would come out? I mean he might not win father, or husband of the year, and some of his studies have gone horribly wrong -- but atleast he works to fix it rather than leaving it be like a true super-villian likely would do.
    Sorta like Hitler? (Not really the best example (actually a really bad one), but good intentions doesn't give someone a free pass to be an asshole)

    :edit: What EclecticGroove said.

    However Reed keeps making the same mistakes over and over.

    He always sends ships to the wrong planet, ahs one of the worst records in ending up in the wrong place, yet he sends the hulk away with a bomb, not caring that he might destroy a planet if it goes to teh worng planet as always.

    Man... they couldve just asked Banner to leave, given him supplies and food, and maybe a lab. Banner was in self-exile, and would be glad to do so. Heck, they could also have apologized for lying to him about the gamma bomb that blew up and made him become Savage Hulk again.

    *sigh*

    I do hope Marvel retcons Reed somehow into being brainwashed or something.

    JCM on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    You know this whole "what about the bystanders when super-powered beings fight" thing is pretty dumb. I mean it is a good idea, for the Ultimate universe or something. But shoe-horning it into the main marvel universe seems kind of forced.

    DouglasDanger on
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  • EclecticGrooveEclecticGroove Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    However, what makes him the scapegoat that's justifiable to send into space with no trial or options when those who made the choice have been accountable for similar or greater levels of destruction and/or death?

    But if everything had gone according to the plan it would've all worked out for the best would it not have? I mean Reed is the "smartest man alive." If you're not gunna trust him to send a gamma powered hero to a distant planet then who are you going to?

    (and yes I know that noone has worse luck when it comes to space travel than Reed, I was being Ironic.)

    Irony aside. Even had it all gone to plan (Dr evil lets ignore the fact he never made it there and they never checked till Cho made them look) what owuld have changed?
    You have a betrayed and REALLY pissed off Hulk on a planet where there is NOTHING. He was intent on getting back even when on Sakaar, and only accepted it after he fought so hard, gained new friends, and a queen... he probably would have sat and stewed on the intended planet till he and banner came up with a way to get back. Or, as many have noted... till some supervillain/hero or alien menace decided that they could track him down and make use of him by bringing him back to earth.


    It was, as Namor stated, inevitable. The only way to ensure he would not have fought to come back, or that he'd be royally pissed off when he does get back... was to simply ASK him.

    Say, Banner/Hulk, you have always said you wanted to be alone and stuff right? Well, me and Reed here had a crazy idea we just wanted to fly by you. We were doing some planetary surveys and found this uninhabited world with nothing but plants and animals, and we kinda thought.. hey, y'know, maybe the Hulk would want to live there? And so, here we are, to offer that to you... just a thought.

    They could have had communication, visitation schedules for friends/family, etc. They could have had Banner work on all sorts of stuff for Shield.. I doubt Banner would have rejected it, and I really doubt the Hulk would have either.

    EclecticGroove on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    yeah pokemon kid, whatever... seeing all my opinions are based on something I can debate and posts scans of, no need to apply yor cooky theories of JFK on me. Heck, I dont give a shit why he killed, nor about Sept11, as long as that shit stays away from where I live.

    I live by facts, not pokemons and off-topic posts whining about a poster.
    Aww how cute, he's offended.

    1.Not a kid, I'm 22. But thanks for playing.
    2.I've become accustomed to being teased for playing Pokemon.
    3.If you're gonna be condescending about someone trolling and using ad hominems, it's best not to...er...insult them. On to the arguments.
    "Saved Galactus or Doom."

    Pretty sure that letting a force of nature that, once it stops existing, brings about a far worse being isn't exactly evil.
    Neither is saving someone despite their attempts to kill you.

    *snips sad trolling*

    *yawns*

    Do I need to keep reposting the same post over and over?
    If no one cared the first 30 times, then no.
    JCM wrote: »
    He might be an essential froce a few years later when Franklin Richards nearly destroys him, but at the time reed saved him, thats wasnt the reason-

    Reed just felt he could not let another being die.
    000op2705it3.jpg

    And like most of Reed´s self-important ideas, it just happens that years later, a writer makes it into something good. Like his concentrartion campo for heroes, which now serves as a prision for villains. But it doesnt change the fact that Reed saved a guy who went on to murder trillions, just because he couldnt let someone die.
    You're ignoring the facts here.
    Galactus is a force of nature.
    Whether it came up years later, or a week later. He is a necessary evil.
    That's what a fucking retcon does.
    - Now, this Reed is also the one who lied to Ben for 10 years saying that there was a cure, so he could use ben as a guinea pig.
    How can we be sure it was "guinea pig" and not "There IS a cure. I'm sure of it. There has to be...maybe it's this...?"
    You see a man lying to his best friend. I see a man trying to convince HIMSELF most of all that there IS a permanent solution that he can find, so he doesn't have to admit to his friend that he is stuck like that.
    - The same Reed that EVERY other time he invades some dimension, the earth gets attacked and many die, and yet he still keeps doing it, without caring for the world.
    - The same reed that cut the Hulk up against his will in the name of science.
    - The same Reed that has let his son, a force that is more destructive than the Hulk, alive and well, and overlooks Iron man´s uncountable crimes, yet thinks himself worthy to send Hulk to space (although he did put his son in a comma once)
    Well he can't predict the reaction of every new world. And to be fair, Atlantis pretty much wanted to fuck with us from day 1. And his son pretty much used his powers to save his family, then put up mental blocks to keep him from accessing them until he's better prepared for it. The Hulk, however, rampaged of his own free will (more or less).
    - The same Reed that took a Doom that had accepted his place in Hell and let him out, ending up with Reed having to kill te Thing, and Doom, after knowing that he COULD get out, fighting his way out (with the help of mjolnir)
    Reed has always believed that Doom is not pure evil, and there is something to be salvaged. He was hoping Doom would see it as a kind gesture and turn from his hatred. Even IF he was gonna lock him up somewhere else, he was hoping he'd be seen as some sort of savior for getting him out of Hell.
    -The same Reed, that even though he has one of the worst records in sending rockets to the right place, still thinks that Hulk´s rocket will arrive where he wants it to.
    Do you know how hard it is to get a REAL rocket to go up? Also, blaming plot lines that happened because they have an easy opening(Oh hey we have a super scientist. We can do that space storyline now!) is kinda shitty. It's like claiming Spider-man killed Gwen. Or more accurately, that he has a track record for killing people he loves.
    -The same Reed that put a bomb strong enough to nearly destroy a planet inside that rocket.
    That was not a bomb. That was the engine powerful enough to get him to that planet. Stop calling it a fucking bomb.
    -Lets add helping Tony set up the control thingy for letting villains free (Thunderbolts), creating a concentration camp for heroes (Spiderman:CW) and creating Clor without an off switch (Civil War)
    Reed is not a mass murderer. At worst he is a naive fool who thinks that very few people are purely evil.
    As much as the Hulk has destroyed through rage, Reed has destroyed more though curiosity.
    And like the Hulk destroys thinking he is right to punish puny humans who wont leave him alone, Reed does things thinking that he is right to risk the fate of the human race for a simple scientific discovery or two.
    Regardless of your definition of the term "destroyed", Hulk has DIRECTLY destroyed it all. Not through "curiosity". Directly. He was the one smashing shit.
    But hey, if ad hominems helps you sleep well at night in mommy´s basement, good luck to you.
    And before making imaginary facts kid, my life is bare for all to see, sadly I cant say that about an off-topic troll with a pokemon avatar.
    Nice try, trying to bait me to insult you.


    Now do you wanna argue like a big boy, or am I just gonna drop this and assume all you wanna do is make fun of my avatar and love of a video game on a video game forum?

    The Muffin Man on
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Comics. Serious Business.

    Yet another JCM righter than thou opinion. Yay.

    Reed/Tony fucked up. Hulk is pissed and looking to take it out on somebody. Here endeth the arguement.

    Tach on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Okay, well then Tony and Reed are cocksuckers. I just wish that they wern't written that way. Why does Marvel need to turn Superheroes into Supervillians? I actually like Reed! But they are making it so goddamned fucking hard to like him as a character.

    DharmaBum on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited June 2007
    1.Not a kid, I'm 22. But thanks for playing.
    2.I've become accustomed to being teased for playing Pokemon.
    Couldve fooled me, I mean, theres ample proof of your age right?

    But hey, if it helps you feel better when writing off-topic posts attacking me out of frustration that your beloved Reed sucks, heck, go ahead. I´ll believe youre 22, if you can debate.
    JCM wrote: »
    He might be an essential force a few years later when Franklin Richards nearly destroys him, but at the time reed saved him, thats wasnt the reason-

    Reed just felt he could not let another being die.
    000op2705it3.jpg

    And like most of Reed´s self-important ideas, it just happens that years later, a writer makes it into something good. Like his concentrartion campo for heroes, which now serves as a prision for villains. But it doesnt change the fact that Reed saved a guy who went on to murder trillions, just because he couldnt let someone die.

    You're ignoring the facts here.


    Nope ye are. Reed saved a guy who eats planets, because he cannot let see someone die. Then Galactus straight away went off to eat the Skree Throneworld, killing tens of billions.
    - Now, this Reed is also the one who lied to Ben for 10 years saying that there was a cure, so he could use ben as a guinea pig.
    How can we be sure it was "guinea pig" and not "There IS a cure. I'm sure of it. There has to be...maybe it's this...?"
    You see a man lying to his best friend. I see a man trying to convince HIMSELF most of all that there IS a permanent solution that he can find, so he doesn't have to admit to his friend that he is stuck like that.
    yeah, especially after using him as a guinea pig.
    - The same Reed that EVERY other time he invades some dimension, the earth gets attacked and many die, and yet he still keeps doing it, without caring for the world.
    - The same reed that cut the Hulk up against his will in the name of science.
    - The same Reed that has let his son, a force that is more destructive than the Hulk, alive and well, and overlooks Iron man´s uncountable crimes, yet thinks himself worthy to send Hulk to space (although he did put his son in a comma once)
    Well he can't predict the reaction of every new world.

    Lets see

    1- Reed invades new world
    2- New alien race attacks earth, destroys a lot
    3- Go back to 1.

    If 1. wasnt there, 2 would happen much less.
    - The same Reed that took a Doom that had accepted his place in Hell and let him out, ending up with Reed having to kill te Thing, and Doom, after knowing that he COULD get out, fighting his way out (with the help of mjolnir)
    Reed has always believed that Doom is not pure evil, and there is something to be salvaged. He was hoping Doom would see it as a kind gesture and turn from his hatred. Even IF he was gonna lock him up somewhere else, he was hoping he'd be seen as some sort of savior for getting him out of Hell.
    So Reed puts himself above the laws of God, and gets a guy out of hell because he disagrees that he should be there.

    can this guy be even more stuck-up?
    At worst he is a naive fool who thinks that very few people are purely evil.

    This I agree.
    As much as the Hulk has destroyed through rage, Reed has destroyed more though curiosity.
    And like the Hulk destroys thinking he is right to punish puny humans who wont leave him alone, Reed does things thinking that he is right to risk the fate of the human race for a simple scientific discovery or two.
    Regardless of your definition of the term "destroyed", Hulk has DIRECTLY destroyed it all. Not through "curiosity". Directly. .

    yeah, so Hitler had others kill for him. That sure makes a difference in the bodycount :lol::lol::lol:

    Now do you wanna argue like a big boy, or am I just gonna drop this and assume all you wanna do is make fun of my avatar and love of a video game on a video game forum?

    Love how you guys try the first insult, them complain when you get insulted back. This is a webcomic forum, BTW. I´d be glad to talk nicely to you, its simple, dont insult, dont get insulted back.

    JCM on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    so Reed = Hitler?

    Scientific Expirments gone awry = Genocide?

    Listen Reed's little scientific misshaps arn't purposeful (most of the time) he's not intentionally killing anyone. When the Hulk goes on a rampage, he is killing people and destroying things purposefully. In fact it's been pretty well proven that Reed doesn't have it in him to kill anyone (Yes, I'm talking to you Galactus. Let's post that frame for the 31st time!). But the Hulk has come back to Earth with the expressed purpose of killing Reed, Tony and the rest of the Illuminati.

    DharmaBum on
  • ReignerReigner Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Eh, I hate Reed because he's the reason that the Marvel Zombies won.

    Which causes me to hate all other Reeds by association :P

    Reigner on
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  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Why?

    -Because they sent him to space, after he saved the world yet another time. using the excuse of what? las vegas? Wasnt it SHIELD that lied to Hulk about the bomb, and the Thing that picked a fight with him on a dare?

    -Because Hulk had to suffer torture, being a gladiator when all he wants is to be left alone, because reed cant calculate where a ship will go properly, as always

    -Because Reed´s bomb killed his wife, and set off eractions destroying an entire world.

    I might not agree with the methods, but I agree that Hulk hass the full right to smash the hell out of Iron man and Reed, Im just dissapointed that of my two fave Marvel characters, Namor and Black bolt, only one realized the stupidity of two men with more blood on their hands sending the Hulk to space.

    They could have just asked, instead of playing judge, jury and executioners.

    JCM on
  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    I might not agree with the methods, but I agree that Hulk hass the full right to smash the hell out of Iron man and Reed


    So as long as there is some for of justification for it, atleast legitmate in your eyes, those kills will not be added to the body count.

    Now who's playing judge and jury?

    DharmaBum on
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    I might not agree with the methods, but I agree that Hulk hass the full right to smash the hell out of Iron man and Reed


    So as long as there is some for of justification for it, atleast legitmate in your eyes, those kills will not be added to the body count.

    Now who's playing judge and jury?

    Bullshit.

    Actually for many pages I have also said that Hulk also has collateral damage in his rampages, and something shouldve been done about him, but if putting arguments in my mouth helps you guys feel better about not beating the others, hey, its a free country.

    I´m still waiting for 20 pages for people to show me that Hulk has rampaged without someone attacking him first many times (I only read that once in all my Hulk comics) and im still waiting somebody to tell me that Reed was right in like, not asking Banner. ;-)

    :lol::lol::lol:

    JCM on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited June 2007
    If you view Hulk as a foreign leader rather than a simple American citizen, then his declaration of war is well within his rights and certainly constitutes acceptable behavior as much as, or more than, any other declaration of war ever has.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    -Because Hulk had to suffer torture, being a gladiator when all he wants is to be left alone, because reed cant calculate where a ship will go properly, as always

    -Because Reed´s bomb killed his wife, and set off eractions destroying an entire world.

    Just for the sake of clarity, the only reason the shuttle went off course in the first place is because Hulk got pissed and ripped a hole in it.

    And yeah, not a bomb. Engines exploding. The shuttle was never purposefully booby-trapped.

    Just getting those points out there.

    Golden Yak on
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  • DharmaBumDharmaBum Registered User
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    I might not agree with the methods, but I agree that Hulk hass the full right to smash the hell out of Iron man and Reed


    So as long as there is some for of justification for it, atleast legitmate in your eyes, those kills will not be added to the body count.

    Now who's playing judge and jury?

    Bullshit.

    Actually for many pages I have also said that Hulk also has collateral damage in his rampages, and something shouldve been done about him, but if putting arguments in my mouth helps you guys feel better about not beating the others, hey, its a free country.

    I´m still waiting for 20 pages for people to show me that Hulk has rampaged without someone attacking him first many times (I only read that once in all my Hulk comics) and im still waiting somebody to tell me that Reed was right in like, not asking Banner. ;-)

    :lol::lol::lol:

    Reed was incorrect in not asking Banner. That's established.

    But you DO say that the Hulk is justified in killing Reed and Tony, when at the same time you condemn Reed for all of the collateral damage and death that he has caused. The principal diffrence between Banner/Hulk and Reed is that when the Hulk goes on a rampage, provoked or not, it is more or less to cause damage and hurt people. Irregardless if that's Banner's intent or not, it is the Hulks. Reed does not have it in him to take another life. When he causes collateral damage it is not because he wants to.

    Also you say that the Hulk has only rampaged once when he was not provoked by somebody that is very diffrent than him being provoked by Reed/Tony and their crew exclusively.

    DharmaBum on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    -Because Hulk had to suffer torture, being a gladiator when all he wants is to be left alone, because reed cant calculate where a ship will go properly, as always

    -Because Reed´s bomb killed his wife, and set off eractions destroying an entire world.

    Just for the sake of clarity, the only reason the shuttle went off course in the first place is because Hulk got pissed and ripped a hole in it.

    In the designing a ship for the Hulk, the first thing you should account for is the fact that he'll be pissed and is going to rip a hole in something.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    -Because Hulk had to suffer torture, being a gladiator when all he wants is to be left alone, because reed cant calculate where a ship will go properly, as always

    -Because Reed´s bomb killed his wife, and set off eractions destroying an entire world.

    Just for the sake of clarity, the only reason the shuttle went off course in the first place is because Hulk got pissed and ripped a hole in it.

    In the designing a ship for the Hulk, the first thing you should account for is the fact that he'll be pissed and is going to rip a hole in something.

    When you put it like that, yeah, Reed really dropped the ball on this one.

    Golden Yak on
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  • FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    However, what makes him the scapegoat that's justifiable to send into space with no trial or options when those who made the choice have been accountable for similar or greater levels of destruction and/or death?

    But if everything had gone according to the plan it would've all worked out for the best would it not have? I mean Reed is the "smartest man alive." If you're not gunna trust him to send a gamma powered hero to a distant planet then who are you going to?

    (and yes I know that noone has worse luck when it comes to space travel than Reed, I was being Ironic.)

    Irony aside. Even had it all gone to plan (Dr evil lets ignore the fact he never made it there and they never checked till Cho made them look) what owuld have changed?
    You have a betrayed and REALLY pissed off Hulk on a planet where there is NOTHING. He was intent on getting back even when on Sakaar, and only accepted it after he fought so hard, gained new friends, and a queen... he probably would have sat and stewed on the intended planet till he and banner came up with a way to get back. Or, as many have noted... till some supervillain/hero or alien menace decided that they could track him down and make use of him by bringing him back to earth.


    It was, as Namor stated, inevitable. The only way to ensure he would not have fought to come back, or that he'd be royally pissed off when he does get back... was to simply ASK him.

    Say, Banner/Hulk, you have always said you wanted to be alone and stuff right? Well, me and Reed here had a crazy idea we just wanted to fly by you. We were doing some planetary surveys and found this uninhabited world with nothing but plants and animals, and we kinda thought.. hey, y'know, maybe the Hulk would want to live there? And so, here we are, to offer that to you... just a thought.

    They could have had communication, visitation schedules for friends/family, etc. They could have had Banner work on all sorts of stuff for Shield.. I doubt Banner would have rejected it, and I really doubt the Hulk would have either.

    Eclectic is right. They should have asked Banner, rather than forced him. He was in self-imposed exile, afterall, so he obviously understood how potentialy dangerous the Hulk can be, and was willing to take steps to curtail that danger. But Tony and Reed, being self-righteous as always, chose to impose their will, rather than find the optimal solution.

    FCD on
    Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
  • JCMJCM Registered User
    edited June 2007
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    DharmaBum wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    I might not agree with the methods, but I agree that Hulk hass the full right to smash the hell out of Iron man and Reed


    So as long as there is some for of justification for it, atleast legitmate in your eyes, those kills will not be added to the body count.

    Now who's playing judge and jury?

    Bullshit.

    Actually for many pages I have also said that Hulk also has collateral damage in his rampages, and something shouldve been done about him, but if putting arguments in my mouth helps you guys feel better about not beating the others, hey, its a free country.

    I´m still waiting for 20 pages for people to show me that Hulk has rampaged without someone attacking him first many times (I only read that once in all my Hulk comics) and im still waiting somebody to tell me that Reed was right in like, not asking Banner. ;-)

    :lol::lol::lol:

    Reed was incorrect in not asking Banner. That's established.

    But you DO say that the Hulk is justified in killing Reed and Tony, when at the same time you condemn Reed for all of the collateral damage and death that he has caused. The principal diffrence between Banner/Hulk and Reed is that when the Hulk goes on a rampage, provoked or not, it is more or less to cause damage and hurt people. Irregardless if that's Banner's intent or not, it is the Hulks. Reed does not have it in him to take another life. When he causes collateral damage it is not because he wants to.

    Also you say that the Hulk has only rampaged once when he was not provoked by somebody that is very diffrent than him being provoked by Reed/Tony and their crew exclusively.

    Jesus, I said that he´s always being disturbed by some villain/hero/government wanting to make use of him. Please read the thread before putting more imaginary arguements in my mouth.

    And I believe Reed should be punished for killing the Hulk´s wife, so Iron Man, and since there´s no justice court to take care of that, I agree that Hulk whupping them is just about right.

    And they wont die, they have their own comics. They will just dissapear for a year the most.
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    JCM wrote: »
    -Because Hulk had to suffer torture, being a gladiator when all he wants is to be left alone, because reed cant calculate where a ship will go properly, as always

    -Because Reed´s bomb killed his wife, and set off eractions destroying an entire world.

    Just for the sake of clarity, the only reason the shuttle went off course in the first place is because Hulk got pissed and ripped a hole in it.

    In the designing a ship for the Hulk, the first thing you should account for is the fact that he'll be pissed and is going to rip a hole in something.

    When you put it like that, yeah, Reed really dropped the ball on this one.

    Especially when you consider that it didnt explode because of the hulk, but it was set to explode after he arrived, with a little recording from Reed-

    021ia7.jpg
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    Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.

    JCM on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    So you don't understand what compromised means?

    Fencingsax on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User
    edited June 2007
    Not that I know anything about warp cores, but would it have been impossible to render it inoperable upon the ship's landing so that it wouldn't be a danger to anyone in the event of it being compromised?

    In fact, you'd think scrapping the ship by destroying the power source in a non-lethal way would make sense since leaving Banner with a fully operational craft just gives him something to return in. Banner himself said he could have fixed it up and escaped Sakaar if Hulk would have only allowed him to.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.

    Accident, man. There was a warning that the core was compromised, and the recording was the same one played for Hulk at the beginning. Plus there's the fact that the Red King's scientists were monkeying with it since he arrived, and then a bunch of kids turned it into a parade float.

    Also, the reason the planet was destroyed was due to it exploding on a major fault line that had previously been weakened by an actual bomb. The exploding engine normally wouldn't have been enough to crack a planet apart.

    Golden Yak on
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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I agree with the logical description of the event in question layed out by the Golden Yak there... Huh, now there is something I never expected myself to say.

    Caveman Paws on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    JCM wrote: »
    Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.

    jesus you are dumb.

    Angry on
  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    I agree with the logical description of the event in question layed out by the Golden Yak there... Huh, now there is something I never expected myself to say.

    The Golden Yak knows many secrets. Sometimes he even remembers to put spoiler tags around them.

    Golden Yak on
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This discussion has been closed.