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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote:
    I was quite bothered by the fact that no one on SotG stated the real problem with the Replicant. They did touch on slightly, but not enough.

    The main problem is that there is going to be a very fine line between the Replicant being overpowered and being pointless to ever build, and I doubt the ability of anyone to strike that line.

    Especially since everytime they change another unit in the game, the Replicant potentially then needs a change. We'll be getting Replicant changes every patch for the next 12 months.

    InControl briefly said he thinks it'll be very hard to balance and will be overpowered - but none of them touched on the fact that if they do manage to make it not overpowered, it will be very easy to make it not worth building at all.

    Yeah, I'm seriously worried about this as well.

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    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.

    When Destiny starts advertising his stream as "Therapy for rape victims" instead of "Starcraft 2 where I say a bunch of offensive shit" give me a call.
    3clipse wrote:
    Just so we're clear, I'm objecting to the overly graphic description of how rape works, not the use of the word rape. It would be legit for a Japanese person to get upset over a REALLY graphic description of radiation sickness, too.
    This actually boggles my mind. So if Destiny started giving an overly graphical description of radiation sickness as a metaphor for some type of gameplay on his stream, would you be shocked and appalled and refuse to have anything to do with him? Or no, because you don't have a family member who died from radiation sickness?
    PoolCue wrote:
    this topic is giving me a big feeling of deja vu right now
    Complaints about zerg air. Destiny is an uncivilized monster. Hydras not viable. Let's do the time warp again.

    JAEF on
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    They also said that the Oracle would be unfriendly to new players, but for the exact opposite reason. The Oracle is unfriendly to new players who want to use it - because it takes a lot of APM to do that and manage your base. But new players will just use it anyway and let their base go to shit. That's what they do.

    That isn't the problem. The problem is that there's no notification when your minerals have been entombed, so if you lack map awareness, its going to last the full duration nearly every time, and map awareness is something all players struggle with, let alone new players.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.

    When Destiny starts advertising his stream as "Therapy for rape victims" instead of "Starcraft 2 where I say a bunch of offensive shit" give me a call.

    To be fair, I don't think 3clipse was saying anything like "we should find Destiny and hunt him down so he can't say the mean things with the bad words anymore" but I think it was more along the lines of "I'm really finding it hard to have any respect for him when he says these things".

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.

    This is a pretty deeply silly thing to say about a video that was brought to this thread by someone other than 3clipse. :P

    Anyway, on the topic of entomb, I'm not sure if it should get a pop-up notification like when your base is under attack, but, maybe give it a really distinct loud sound like a nydus network being built or a nuclear launch.

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    redraptorredraptor Registered User regular
    I think replicants should be like Kirby in that they look all protoss-y still but they just take the abilities of what they are replicating in some fashion.

    Like hallucination but for reals.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Going with the kirby idea it would be fun if they could suck up enemy units and spit them out as stars. Wait, no. :P

    I mean, it would be awesome if like kirby it didn't permanently become the unit it was copying, if it could turn back into a replicant and then turn into something else. It would probably be overpowered though.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.

    When Destiny starts advertising his stream as "Therapy for rape victims" instead of "Starcraft 2 where I say a bunch of offensive shit" give me a call.

    To be fair, I don't think 3clipse was saying anything like "we should find Destiny and hunt him down so he can't say the mean things with the bad words anymore" but I think it was more along the lines of "I'm really finding it hard to have any respect for him when he says these things".

    The second one.

    Also, it will be really hard to cope with Oracles if they don't put a notice in. Otherwise you just may not notice that your minerals are entombed.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Well, its all very simple. To be useful, the Replicant must be able to add some power to your army. That power is vastly different depending on a thousand different combinations of units and situations that might exist.

    To balance this out, there must be a cost associated with it. At the moment, that cost is 200/200 and 4 supply. that cost may become far more if the balance team deems it necessary - but if it becomes too expensive, it will not be worth making and players will find other ways to achieve what they want. The line between "too expensive for its power" and "too cheap for its power" is going to be exceedingly difficult to make it work and I don't think it will work without a large number of restrictions placed on it, all of which make it less fun, less elegant, and less useful.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote:
    Dhalphir wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.

    When Destiny starts advertising his stream as "Therapy for rape victims" instead of "Starcraft 2 where I say a bunch of offensive shit" give me a call.

    To be fair, I don't think 3clipse was saying anything like "we should find Destiny and hunt him down so he can't say the mean things with the bad words anymore" but I think it was more along the lines of "I'm really finding it hard to have any respect for him when he says these things".

    The second one.

    Also, it will be really hard to cope with Oracles if they don't put a notice in. Otherwise you just may not notice that your minerals are entombed.

    Well, putting in a notification will make them a little too weak in the pro level games - where people WILL notice immediately especially with a notification - and they don't do any lasting damage.

    Having no notification is perfect for a pro level game - its going to be pretty obvious when your money stops coming in as a decent player, especially in the first 10-15 mins of the game, because at that point in the game your money shouldn't ever be going over 500 or so, and if it stops coming in you'll notice fast, even if you don't notice the tombs themselves.

    But having no notification will make things tricky for a lower level player and I'm not sure how they'll address that.

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    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Inquisitor wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.
    This is a pretty deeply silly thing to say about a video that was brought to this thread by someone other than 3clipse. :P
    The video has a play button. No one grabbed 3clipse by the waist and forced him to watch it.
    :bz

    Next time I stream I'm talking exclusively about radiation sickness.

    JAEF on
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    ImpyrockerImpyrocker Registered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Inquisitor wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Hey the cool thing about the internet is that if there are things you don't agree with, you don't have to seek them out.
    This is a pretty deeply silly thing to say about a video that was brought to this thread by someone other than 3clipse. :P
    The video has a play button. No one grabbed 3clipse by the waist and forced him to watch it.
    :bz

    Next time I stream I'm talking exclusively about radiation sickness.

    It wasn't really explicit in the title...

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    Quasi ignis
    Flamma inferno
    Igne cutis
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    fadingathedgesfadingathedges Registered User regular
    Hero is streaming, and last time I saw him play the games were batshit insane good. Also: I believe I can fly is playing right now, so there's that going on too.

    http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid`HerO

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    LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Dhalphir wrote:
    Well, its all very simple. To be useful, the Replicant must be able to add some power to your army. That power is vastly different depending on a thousand different combinations of units and situations that might exist.

    To balance this out, there must be a cost associated with it. At the moment, that cost is 200/200 and 4 supply. that cost may become far more if the balance team deems it necessary - but if it becomes too expensive, it will not be worth making and players will find other ways to achieve what they want. The line between "too expensive for its power" and "too cheap for its power" is going to be exceedingly difficult to make it work and I don't think it will work without a large number of restrictions placed on it, all of which make it less fun, less elegant, and less useful.

    It can also be useful by giving you Orbitals. Which, if it makes it to release, I plan on making. I plan on making a lot of them.

    Lemming on
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    LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    Thorzain vs Kas.

    Notbad.

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    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    can your probes return minerals to a command centre if it belongs to you?

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    redraptorredraptor Registered User regular
    I don't think the replicant will make the game because SC2 is developed from the ground up to be easily vewable by the public.

    Now you have to explain to everyone why the protoss always has stuff from the other races.

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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    You forgot to calculate in the cost of the replicant that will turn into SCV. =)
    Dhalphir wrote:
    can your probes return minerals to a command centre if it belongs to you?
    If you can use an allies gas extractor in team games, then I would assume so.

    Hoz on
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    InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

    Well, I understand marines are good, too, so you would probably use that barracks.
    Dhalphir wrote:
    can your probes return minerals to a command centre if it belongs to you?

    I am very confident they can.

    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    And those marines you make, are you going to invest more minerals/gas into upgrading them or are you just going to leave them without shield/stim at 0/0? Yeah those are really scary for 3-3 bio to face!

    When the metagame matures, if Protoss copy scvs the only units they'll be making out of the rax is going to be the reaper, maaaybe ghosts (but it would just be cheaper to copy them). That is the only one that makes sense. And I doubt any other production will be ever made. You'll be just making an unupgraded Terran army to face a bigger upgraded Terran army.

    Hoz on
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    GogoKodoGogoKodo Registered User regular
    Hero is streaming, and last time I saw him play the games were batshit insane good. Also: I believe I can fly is playing right now, so there's that going on too.

    http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Liquid`HerO
    HerO is so good it hurts.

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    LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

    The supply depot helps your supply, so it doesn't count. And it'd replace a Nexus that'd I'd usually make at my third or fourth, so it's only a small bit extra, but you get MULEs and scans. I think it'll be worth it starting mid game.

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    EuphemonEuphemon itsudemo sagashiteiruyo dokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered User regular
    The on-the-fly splitscreening in EGMCSL is awesome.

    iG3kv1d.png
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    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    Invictus wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

    Well, I understand marines are good, too, so you would probably use that barracks.
    Marines require upgrades to be any good late game. 1v1 against a Terran if you're really wasting supply on unupgraded marines versus whatever the hell they have out, you're an idiot.

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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    Protoss using that rax to make 4-5 reapers is going to be an awesome strategy. Especially with the new reaper buff coming in HoTS.

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    InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    JAEF wrote:
    Invictus wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

    Well, I understand marines are good, too, so you would probably use that barracks.
    Marines require upgrades to be any good late game. 1v1 against a Terran if you're really wasting supply on unupgraded marines versus whatever the hell they have out, you're an idiot.

    Yeah, that's right. I think I did some combination of simply overlooking that and remembering that the replicant automatically had upgrades for the things it copies (which is obviously not true for things you make via a tech tree you start with a replicant).

    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    JAEF wrote:
    Invictus wrote:
    JAEF wrote:
    Well you do need a barracks for orbitals, which also means investing in a supply depot. So you're paying 400 for the command center, 100 for depot, 150 for rax, 150 for orbital just to get one. 800 minerals. That's a heavy investment if you're not in a weird late game situation, as it doesn't start to pay back that quickly.

    I'm sure it'll be nice late game if it ends up going through, being able to have a higher army food and sac probes would be nice.

    Well, I understand marines are good, too, so you would probably use that barracks.
    Marines require upgrades to be any good late game. 1v1 against a Terran if you're really wasting supply on unupgraded marines versus whatever the hell they have out, you're an idiot.

    Un-upgraded marines alongside storm, zealots, and archons seems like it could be pretty strong. Marines cut down the Medivacs while Zealots and Storm do the bulk of the damage.

    E: Or just toss Stim on there, whatever.

    Salvation122 on
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited October 2011
    I think you are vastly overestimating the strengths of marines. Once the game is past 4-5 minutes in, they are really not very good when they don't have stim or medivacs.

    Dhalphir on
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    Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Holy crap, did anyone see game two of Dimaga v. TLO? I want that Muta build order, that's damn near cheese

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    NylonathetepNylonathetep Registered User regular
    I feel obligated to post some K-pop in here. So...


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZvf1uTZYM&feature=related

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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    Got a link?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV6AQGF2Vfo

    @20:30 and then again at like 22;30
    (that was harder to find than it should have been)

    I think he's done it other times as well but that's one example

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    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    PantsB... <3

    narwhal wrote:
    Why am I Terran?
    My YouTube Channel! Featuring silly little Guilty Gear Strive videos and other stuff!
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    LemmingLemming Registered User regular
    Hahaha, that was great

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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    because it is hard to be sensitive to everyone's issues, we should be sensitive to no one's

    interesting lessons catching up in the sc2 thread

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Is FeelsGoodMan the guy who used to talk about clown toss here all the time?

    From the ladder:
    screenshot2011103023232.jpg
    screenshot2011103023235.jpg


    He was 40 food up, up on upgrades, even on workers... yep time to quit.

    Granted I had a few hallucinated Cols in there but come on lol. I'm literally about to retreat and see how many zealots I can save (my gas units should have been OK).

    PantsB on
    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Variable wrote:
    because it is hard to be sensitive to everyone's issues, we should be sensitive to no one's

    interesting lessons catching up in the sc2 thread

    I just find myself surprised that people care SO MUCH about being able to say whatever the hell they want that asking for sensitivity somehow turns me into a speechnazibadguy.

    I didn't even say "don't say rape!" Just maybe don't make long, detailed analogies that describe exactly what happens during rape. But I guess that's too much to ask, or something? Because it's really, really important that we get to have long discussions about the mechanics of rape?

    Whatever. I still don't understand how the fighting community has understood this for years, but any mention like this in the SC2 community ends up being equivalent to trying to murder free speech.

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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote:
    Is FeelsGoodMan the guy who used to talk about clown toss here all the time?

    From the ladder:
    screenshot2011103023232.jpg
    screenshot2011103023235.jpg


    He was 40 food up, up on upgrades, even on workers... yep time to quit.

    Granted I had a few hallucinated Cols in there but come on lol. I'm literally about to retreat and see how many zealots I can save (my gas units should have been OK).

    Yeah, that was FGM. I think he played under "Seth" though.

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    mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh, that was great

    narwhal wrote:
    Why am I Terran?
    My YouTube Channel! Featuring silly little Guilty Gear Strive videos and other stuff!
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Lemming wrote:
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh, that was great

    Need a cigarette? :D

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