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Sword of the Stars II: Apparently all is now clear.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Well, apparently they were losing developers and other employees before the release and if they hadn't released it they would have likely had to close up shop and it never would have come out, as opposed to having the opportunity to fix it.

    http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    People aren't pissed that the stupid game is broken.
    They are pissed that they have been lied to, repeatedly, by people that they trusted.

    Given the choice between closing up shop and lying to your customers, you close up shop.

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    lu tzelu tze Sweeping the monestary steps.Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK8jbce049I

    I'm glad I pre-ordered BF3 instead of this, but holy hell is that a pretty engine... the thought of it becoming vapourware brings tears to my eyes.

    Hopefully the game will be done by the time I'm finished with Skyrim, then Mecron can have my money and go back to being smug with my blessing.

    lu tze on
    World's best janitor
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote:
    People aren't pissed that the stupid game is broken.
    They are pissed that they have been lied to, repeatedly, by people that they trusted.

    Given the choice between closing up shop and lying to your customers, you close up shop.

    I'm mad that we got lied to too, but if being lied to means I get to play sword of the stars 2 in its complete form at some point, over not getting at all, then I can fucking live with it.

    Given the choice between lying to customers or closing up shop they should close up shop?

    Fuck that. That's stupid. At least now I'll get the game I paid for even if it takes awhile, as opposed to not getting the game I was looking forward to ever. I've seen too many games I was hoping for fall through to think it would have been preferable to have the company fall through and the game never come out than be lied to. I'm sorry but that's just stupid.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    It's far from stupid. It's the most basic principle of business ethics. If it comes down to abusing your customers to survive, you bow the fuck out.
    What happens next time Kerberos is short on cash? They've already spent their credibility with both their publisher and their customers.

    Sokpuppet on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote:
    It's far from stupid. It's the most basic principle of business ethics. If it comes down to abusing your customers to survive, you bow the fuck out.
    What happens next time Kerberos is short on cash? They've already spent their credibility with both their publisher and their customers.

    Abusing your customers is always bad.

    However, the indy games industry has a long history of "hey guys, we're short cash, so we're going to sell preorders that come with the beta code that we'll keep updating. Basically, you're buying the game in the future, with the ability to play a shitty version now"

    If you're up front about "this isn't the final product, we just need money and you can play the current version", people seem to be fine with giving them money for it. I used it as an example earlier, but Starfarer (and Space Pirates and Zombies) both did, this, and are both quite nice titles (Starfarer is still unreleased)

    Kerb/Paradox decided to go ahead and publish final, finished code that was not. And had the audacity to act like it was anything but that until the night of release where the post a forum thread basically going "lolsorry, we promise we're going to keep patching!"

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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    The other thing this does is expose them to legal action of various sorts.

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    BasilBasil Registered User regular
    I wonder how great their team reduction has been. It sounds pretty apocalyptic.

    LIKE MY HEART, KERBEROS!

    JUST LIKE MY BROKEN HEART! </3

    9KmX8eN.jpg
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Basil wrote:
    I wonder how great their team reduction has been. It sounds pretty apocalyptic.

    LIKE MY HEART, KERBEROS!

    JUST LIKE MY BROKEN HEART! </3

    I do heart that it came out, but I knew trouble was brewing when we getting no press on the game and it was less then a week before release. I figure if Kerberos doesn't fix it, hopefully the mod community will.

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    IgelIgel Registered User regular
    Note that you must manually start the game in 64bit mode at the moment by going to the steam/steamapps/common/sword of the stars ii/bin/x64 folder and starting sots2.exe. I was unable to start a game until I did so.

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    kaortikaorti Registered User regular
    Igel wrote:
    Note that you must manually start the game in 64bit mode at the moment by going to the steam/steamapps/common/sword of the stars ii/bin/x64 folder and starting sots2.exe. I was unable to start a game until I did so.

    Thanks for this. The game was starting for me, but there were issues. Now at least some of them are gone.

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    fayrefayre Registered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote:
    It is my understanding that you can potentially get a refund by contacting Paradox.

    I tried contacting paradox about a refund as per this thread from their forums:
    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?567108-Email-support-paradoxplaza.com-for-refund
    I will post again when i receive any further info on this.

    As for the state of the game: A poster in the steam forums chose an interesting thread title "Sword of the Elemental: Lords of Magic". This program seems like it is several months from being ready for release. I can't imagine they did much gameplay testing either as many of their features are only semi-functional. They must have been pretty desperate releasing the game like this.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    The stuff on how to (try and) get a refund should really be in the OP.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    so, using the 64 bit version means i dont have install the same thing OVER and OVER, thank unknown poster, thank you.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Sokpuppet wrote:
    It's far from stupid. It's the most basic principle of business ethics. If it comes down to abusing your customers to survive, you bow the fuck out.
    What happens next time Kerberos is short on cash? They've already spent their credibility with both their publisher and their customers.

    So, game companies abuse their customers in various stupid ways which draw a lot of flak, but tho se companies don't usually hinge their survival on those decisions, and people continue to trust them and pay for their products.

    Are you telling me that in the choice between never making releasing a game and losing your company, and lying and fixing something later, they should have never released it and gone out of business? I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I still TRUST Kerberos to finish this game and make it great, I TRUST if they hadn't had financial issues, it would have been a lot better on release.

    If some lies and a bad release are all it takes to ruin a companies good credibility with a solid well supported game for you, I'm sorry, but I'm glad they don't think like you do.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Grey PaladinGrey Paladin Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    I wouldn't care if they were curing cancer. The end does not justify the means. I have been lied to and cheated. This is not incompetence - they knew the state of the game and that they will need to patch it more than a bit to make it a respectable release. This is malevolence. They willingly tricked their customers for their own benefit. This I cannot forgive. Even if the game is going to be great in a few months, I do not wish such people to see one dime. They should go out of business for such behavior and I will do whatever is in my power to contribute to that - starting with getting back the money I paid them and spreading the word.

    Grey Paladin on
    "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited October 2011
    I guess I can't understand getting so upset and being so petty about being lied to. I'm mad I was lied to, but I guess some people are unwilling to get over it. Nice to know you guys would rather a company crash and burn then be lied to.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    I think a lot of people are upset because there were viable and obvious alternatives to what they did. Like, for example, delaying the official release for a couple of months, telling everyone why, then releasing beta builds for pre-order folks to poke at while they finished things up. You know, like so many other indie devs have been doing lately (often to much success).

    If Kerberos didn't do that because Paradox insisted on a firm release date, well, that's sort of both their faults. Paradox, being a publisher, should've known that these things happen, and Kerberos should've been more willing to put new features on the back burner to get the existing ones working properly.

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    TurielDTurielD Registered User regular
    I guess I can't understand getting so upset and being so petty about being lied to. I'm mad I was lied to, but I guess some people are unwilling to get over it. Nice to know you guys would rather a company crash and burn then be lied to.

    You're kidding right? If you take up an advertisement for a meal offer, you pay 40 euros for a meal at a nice restaurant (which has been nicely previewed by the few critics the owners have allowed in) but then when you show up there the building isn't actually complete and they don't have a kitchen yet... but you can sit at their best table! Well, would you then say 'oh well I see how of course they can't really offer what I thought I was buying, I'll just sit here nicely and help the company, clearly they are in trouble and can use my support!'

    No. It is NOT ok to do what Kerberos and Paradox have done, and being upset with it is in no way petty. You're suffering from something called cognitive dissonance, getting more positive about how great it is what these plucky guys at Kerberos have given us this the worse that the situation gets!

    I want SotS 2 to be working for me too, but Mecron and his joke of a company have to go under for this or they will keep on lying to us all and cheating customers out of their money... selfishly I want them to survive for at least a couple of months so that SotS 2 works before that happens.

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    LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    I'm with the angry people. It's not OK to lie to me in order to take my money. If you're out of time and money, tell the community and ask for help in some reasonable way; don't say "the game is finished!" in the hope that enough people will give you money that you can finish it.

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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    If they wanna sell a Beta, they can sell a Beta. Nuclear Dawn did it, and the beta got very nice support with patching, balancing, and re-balancing.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    ACSISACSIS Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    I hope they work on it. However the MOO3 experience rests deep. Thing is a game launching like this seldomly gets enough attention to fix things - after all programmers cost money and if you have a bad selling title... gosh, i guess the should have delayed it and spend a minimum ammount of further cash to make a great game. Instead they decided for the "quicksilver" option - ripping off a few people at launchday who buy blind, instead to getting people to buy the game for being great. Seems like a horrible waste. I wish sometimes to be back at the time where one guy spend a decade to make a game without investors and released it.

    To be fair it ain't as bad as MOO3, there it was grey dots shooting pixels at each other, but people remember that.

    I know its unrealistic and the chances are less than promising, but i seriously hope they patch this together. Its worth it - MOO3 wasn't, thats the difference. No options accesible in a release version... seriously... guys...

    They released two patches ASAP, lets see and wait a little longer where this heeds to.

    ACSIS on
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    DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    Their board communication isn't really encouraging though. They're doing "minor fixes" and making multiplayer work apparently. But they haven't said squat about trade not working, stations crashing the game above level 2 and how generally every single random encounter will crash your machine after the fight, oh and random encounters don't even spawn in combat half the time!

    Its just infuriating on every level.

    DQ0uv.png 5E984.png
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    ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    I've become steadily more careful at impulse buying PC games this year, and this game and Stronghold 3 have definitely made me glad I've started adopting that practice.

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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    I'm really frustrated. I literally cannot play this game. So freaking irritated.

    steam_sig.png
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    Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    Artereis wrote:
    I've become steadily more careful at impulse buying PC games this year, and this game and Stronghold 3 have definitely made me glad I've started adopting that practice.

    Aww, Stronghold 3 is a stinker too? I guess I'm glad I decided to wait until it was on sale.

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    TediakTediak Registered User regular
    Well, I emailed support for a refund. Hopefully they will process it soon. I hear Star Ruler is looking nice these days...
    Seconded on the engine thing. This game is BEAUTIFUL if only it worked.

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    ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    Artereis wrote:
    I've become steadily more careful at impulse buying PC games this year, and this game and Stronghold 3 have definitely made me glad I've started adopting that practice.

    Aww, Stronghold 3 is a stinker too? I guess I'm glad I decided to wait until it was on sale.

    Yeah, I spent some time on the Steam forum for the game and then read this: http://theunplayables.com/2011/10/i-quit-stronghold-3/

    I was pretty excited too, because that's an itch that's needed scratching for me for some time now.

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    ACSISACSIS Registered User regular
    Demiurge wrote:
    Their board communication isn't really encouraging though. They're doing "minor fixes" and making multiplayer work apparently. But they haven't said squat about trade not working, stations crashing the game above level 2 and how generally every single random encounter will crash your machine after the fight, oh and random encounters don't even spawn in combat half the time!

    Its just infuriating on every level.

    Yes, but then again Master of Magic and Master of Orion 2 started out the same way and turned out all right after a while (much more than that actually), not to mention the late Heroes of Might&Magic series. I still have some hopes left. SotS1 also needed a fair share of time and expansions to come out as it is now. I still havent totally abandoned the title despite its... rough start.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    ACSIS wrote:
    Demiurge wrote:
    Their board communication isn't really encouraging though. They're doing "minor fixes" and making multiplayer work apparently. But they haven't said squat about trade not working, stations crashing the game above level 2 and how generally every single random encounter will crash your machine after the fight, oh and random encounters don't even spawn in combat half the time!

    Its just infuriating on every level.

    Yes, but then again Master of Magic and Master of Orion 2 started out the same way and turned out all right after a while (much more than that actually), not to mention the late Heroes of Might&Magic series. I still have some hopes left. SotS1 also needed a fair share of time and expansions to come out as it is now. I still havent totally abandoned the title despite its... rough start.
    No, not really. Both were fun from launch and slightly improved with time (both came before regular patching was a thing)

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    ACSISACSIS Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    No way. Both crashed by ending up with the wrong enemies, in the cas of Master of Magic there was a bug with encountering enemies from the Myrran side of the world and MOO2... Antarians were prety much a crash gurantee. The games had their problems and especially Master of Magic was near unplayable and had also the habit of corrupting savegames.

    ACSIS on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Damn it people!

    HOPE!

    WE ALL NEED HOPE!

    I put in TWO HUNDRED hours into SOTS1!

    There are people in that studio who knows what they are doing! WE JUST HAVE TO HOLD OUT!

    WE JUST NEED FAITH!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTaqc3_5oYg&amp;feature=related

    Casually Hardcore on
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    MegaMekMegaMek Girls like girls. Registered User regular
    I would be more hopeful If I could figure out how to add ships to fleets.

    Is time a gift or punishment?
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    Go to fleet manager, click on the drop menu you want to add ships to and also the reserve fleet, click and drag from there.

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    MegaMekMegaMek Girls like girls. Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    The reserve tab doesn't expand ever, as far as I'm aware.

    EDIT: Ah, ok. You have to click on the tiny little arrow next to the tab to open the reserve list (you can double click the other lists to open them). Thanks.

    MegaMek on
    Is time a gift or punishment?
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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    ACSIS wrote:
    No way. Both crashed by ending up with the wrong enemies, in the cas of Master of Magic there was a bug with encountering enemies from the Myrran side of the world and MOO2... Antarians were prety much a crash gurantee. The games had their problems and especially Master of Magic was near unplayable and had also the habit of corrupting savegames.

    I think you're getting confused because those games typically need some patches to work on modern computers. They launched at a time when getting hold of patches was near impossible due to the state of the internet (they sometimes would be included on demo disks with game mags).

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    TurielDTurielD Registered User regular
    Go to fleet manager, click on the drop menu you want to add ships to and also the reserve fleet, click and drag from there.

    How do you create a fleet to move ships out of the reserve? I managed to get to turn 10 without a crash now but have no idea how to do half the things that were easy and intuitive on the old SotS 1 UI...

    Also have been ripping Mecron a new one on the Kerberos forums while their up. I like the venting thread even though he'll certainly not read it.

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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited October 2011
    TurielD wrote:
    How do you create a fleet to move ships out of the reserve?

    In fleet manager, click on create fleet. If you have a cnc ship in reserve, you can select a new admiral to command it. That'll give you a new fleet that you can assign additional ships to.

    Golden Yak on
    H9f4bVe.png
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    SokpuppetSokpuppet You only yoyo once Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    TurielD wrote:
    Go to fleet manager, click on the drop menu you want to add ships to and also the reserve fleet, click and drag from there.

    How do you create a fleet to move ships out of the reserve? I managed to get to turn 10 without a crash now but have no idea how to do half the things that were easy and intuitive on the old SotS 1 UI...

    Also have been ripping Mecron a new one on the Kerberos forums while their up. I like the venting thread even though he'll certainly not read it.

    I like how there's been no apology, admission of guilt, or anything of substance at all from Mecron even though he's the person most directly responsible for this bullshit.

    Then again, he's got a game to write so I'm sure he's busy.

    Sokpuppet on
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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    TurielD wrote:
    I guess I can't understand getting so upset and being so petty about being lied to. I'm mad I was lied to, but I guess some people are unwilling to get over it. Nice to know you guys would rather a company crash and burn then be lied to.

    You're kidding right? If you take up an advertisement for a meal offer, you pay 40 euros for a meal at a nice restaurant (which has been nicely previewed by the few critics the owners have allowed in) but then when you show up there the building isn't actually complete and they don't have a kitchen yet... but you can sit at their best table! Well, would you then say 'oh well I see how of course they can't really offer what I thought I was buying, I'll just sit here nicely and help the company, clearly they are in trouble and can use my support!'

    No. It is NOT ok to do what Kerberos and Paradox have done, and being upset with it is in no way petty. You're suffering from something called cognitive dissonance, getting more positive about how great it is what these plucky guys at Kerberos have given us this the worse that the situation gets!

    1. I want SotS 2 to be working for me too, but Mecron and his joke of a company have to go under for this or they will keep on lying to us all and cheating customers out of their money... selfishly I want them to survive for at least a couple of months so that SotS 2 works before that happens.

    That's a shitty analogy. If you want to compare it to a restaurant, it's more like a long time restaurant with a proven track record coming out with a new kind of steak. For a lot of people they've been there before, and they really liked the Steak, but the company had to fire some of its cooks, so when you go in and order the new steak well done, it comes back rare. You know if you send it back it will come back well done and will likely be delicious, but it isn't what you ordered and you could leave and demand a refund. Only here, if enough people demand a refund, those of us who wait will never get their steak. And goddamnit I want that steak well done, and it'll taste delicious.

    2. I didn't say it was "alright" I would have vastly preferred they be honest and I would have payed to test the beta. It's not alright at all. But to me, it's better than the alternative of the company going out of business and the game never coming out. I know Kerberos can make this a great game, and I'm willing to wait for it.

    3. This isn't cognitive dissonance AT ALL. Cognitive Dissonance refers to believing two contrary opinions or beliefs on the same topic. I think this game has great POTENTIAL, and I believe it will be great based on past experience and knowledge of this company. Don't try and label me with stupid shit that doesn't even apply. I'm being optimistic based on prior experience and trust in a companies ability to do a specific thing, bring the game well up to par.

    And your last point is awful. First off, that's not selfish, that's REASONABLE. Wanting a game with a lot of potential to turn out great isn't SELFISH, it's normal. Hissing and spitting about how terrible Kerberos is and you think it should die is selfish, and it is petty. Being mad about them lying and the game being bad isn't petty. Hoping their company dies and saying how terrible the "Joke" of a company it is and you want it to die because "You know" they'll keep lying and cheating customers is petty. It's also not reasonable based on past experiences. No one saw this coming because there was no reason to, but there is every reason to believe Kerberos will deliver on their promise to fix the game. They did for the first one, for 5 years, and it was fantastic.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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