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[Climate Change] : Paris Agreement Signed

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Posts

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    You aren't really "carbon neutral" if you don't drive because everything is trucked to you by amazon and grocery chains.

    Well, that's true, but the idea behind individual carbon footprints is that you're just tracking your own direct energy consumption. In theory, the grocer should be tracking their own carbon footprint, and attempting to minimize it as best they can (in reality, of course, most grocers have no interest in that or are part of a corporate entity that legally cannot mitigate their carbon footprint because it would slice into their profits to do so.


    If you had to track absolutely everything you did that indirectly results in emissions, you could never realistically achieve carbon neutrality, which would defeat the purpose of initiative.

    Actually, what it does is show that the initiative is pretty bollocks in its current set up. I'm not saying you shouldn't do all you can to reduce your footprint, but don't pretend that you're being "carbon neutral" while ignoring how your consumption is increasing carbon output. That's fuzzy math and it won't do anything to save the polar bear.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    If you really want to do something about global warming, get out and DEMAND nuclear power. Accept no substitutes. Yes you want it in your back yard and yes you will live next to the waste dump. If we don't move rapidly to nuclear then we are screwed.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    That is a pretty useful graph though for people who aren't sold on climate change.

    We don't even need people to live next to the dump, WE HAVE A MASSIVE STORAGE FACILITY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN DESERT.

    AManFromEarth on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That is a pretty useful graph though for people who aren't sold on climate change.

    We don't even need people to live next to the dumb, WE HAVE A MASSIVE STORAGE FACILITY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN DESERT.

    That is why I like you. People are speculative about global warming, but are farrrrrr more open to if you call it global climate change.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    First rule of live performance: play to the audience.

    This theatre degree's gotta come in useful sometime!

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    That is a pretty useful graph though for people who aren't sold on climate change.

    We don't even need people to live next to the dump, WE HAVE A MASSIVE STORAGE FACILITY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN DESERT.

    Also, the stuff was radioactive when we dug it up in the first place. Just stick it back where you got it from after 100 years. (the 10000-100000 year storage number is for the radiation level to recede to that of background earth, but the stuff was more radioactive than that when you dug it up!)

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Global Dooming?

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Is it abnormal that Rome got a bunch of snow? I have no idea, but I would assume not given Italy's latitude.

    But it's more than cold, climate change is also stronger hurricanes, more frequent tornadoes, widespread drought, heavy rains, rising sea levels, and yes, mild winters.

    While the globe's temperature is rising, the changes of the climate are the real problem. The far right has captured Global Warming and whenever it snows people go "guess that's bullshit herp derp". Climate Change is the much better name if you want to keep discussion useful.

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  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular
    I can't figure out: Why is this even a political issue? I can see that people hate Gore (because of whatever) but the end goal of all this seems to be having better air, and water, and quality of life. I don't get why anyone would fight against better quality of life. I'd certainly like to breathe easier now instead of letting my grandkids worry about it.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    It started late here, but we get absolutely pounded, it was shitty cold too. And then we had a warm spell for like a week with 80 degree days, then back down to freezing and today here we are, I guess it's kind of 50 out some days and frost/ice on my windshield the others.

    You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. Global warming is played off as "amg look at all the deserts! No food!" People, especially around here where your balls freeze off in the winter, don't understand that and find it false.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Why is evolution political? Why is fetal development political? Why is how much corn gets grown political?

    Wedge issues, my friend. Delicious, delicious wedge issues.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Well that and you need huge business regulations to control stuff like this, like, pollution from factories.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    It started late here, but we get absolutely pounded, it was shitty cold too. And then we had a warm spell for like a week with 80 degree days, then back down to freezing and today here we are, I guess it's kind of 50 out some days and frost/ice on my windshield the others.

    You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. Global warming is played off as "amg look at all the deserts! No food!" People, especially around here where your balls freeze off in the winter, don't understand that and find it false.

    It snowed twice this year in Lawrence Kansas.

    Both times the snow had melted before 24 hours had passed.

    And then it was like 65 degrees the next day.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Anecdotal, lol.

    I live in Yellowknife, near the Arctic circle. The coldest temp we saw this winter was -38 celsius. This winter was mild as hell.

  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    I can't figure out: Why is this even a political issue? I can see that people hate Gore (because of whatever) but the end goal of all this seems to be having better air, and water, and quality of life. I don't get why anyone would fight against better quality of life. I'd certainly like to breathe easier now instead of letting my grandkids worry about it.

    Money. The gas and oil industry is massive. And in order to keep their profits massive, they donate heavily to politicians who wish to keep getting elected.

    It's all about greed, my friend.

    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    Mild winters and abnormally cold winters are both signs of climate change. The US for example can expect uniformly warmer temperatures with climate change, but heavily moderated by el nino effects, whereas europe can expect hot, dry summers and brutally cold winters.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular
    Why is evolution political? Why is fetal development political? Why is how much corn gets grown political?

    Wedge issues, my friend. Delicious, delicious wedge issues.

    Well, abortion is political (at least as far as I can tell) because it's like a Republican misdirection: "Look at all the dead babies while you don't see me rifle through your wallet. Tada!"

    So in that sense I can see the P.T. Barnum-like way it's used working, even if you have to be stupid and/or wealthy to give a shit.

    Evolution you can see because the origin of species (since I don't see Creationists ever get into the nitty gritty of how if there's no evolution there's different species of dogs or the reason why we're supposed to take all of our antibiotics) interferes with deeply held beliefs.

    But the "Hargle-bargle! Global Warming is fake! Screw Al Gore!" makes no sense to me. Even if you think it is fake the end goal is still better air and water and quality of life, something evolution or abortion don't address. Whether or not we evolved from primates doesn't give me purer water, it doesn't help my asthma by having less crap in the air.

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    It started late here, but we get absolutely pounded, it was shitty cold too. And then we had a warm spell for like a week with 80 degree days, then back down to freezing and today here we are, I guess it's kind of 50 out some days and frost/ice on my windshield the others.

    You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. Global warming is played off as "amg look at all the deserts! No food!" People, especially around here where your balls freeze off in the winter, don't understand that and find it false.

    It snowed twice this year in Lawrence Kansas.

    Both times the snow had melted before 24 hours had passed.

    And then it was like 65 degrees the next day.

    We had a week not too long ago where it was like 80 degrees. In March. In CANADA!!!

    But the real crazyness was those tornados that hit at the end of February down in the US. How often do Tornadoes hit in February??

    quovadis13 on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    All this is why Global Climate Change would be a better keyword for this debacle.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, don't @ me
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    Mild winters and abnormally cold winters are both signs of climate change.

    Statements like this are one of the reasons it's hard for people to buy into the idea. Correct or not, it's just ridiculous to hear.

    I just want to point out that conservatives and environmentalists should have a lot of common cause on this issue, but the rhetoric on both sides is exceptionally poisonous to any potential alliance. I've called myself a conservationist since I was old enough to know what it meant, and reject the environmentalist label as long as I've know it existed. You don't even have to believe the science to agree that clean energy and safeguarding the environment are worthy goals any good conservative should want to pursue.

    National self-reliance, preserving clean air and water, and being a good steward to the planet are all bedrock christian and conservative ideas. We should be able to come together around them and find solutions to climate problems, but it seems the political baggage on both sides makes it impossible.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Why is evolution political? Why is fetal development political? Why is how much corn gets grown political?

    Wedge issues, my friend. Delicious, delicious wedge issues.

    Well, abortion is political (at least as far as I can tell) because it's like a Republican misdirection: "Look at all the dead babies while you don't see me rifle through your wallet. Tada!"

    So in that sense I can see the P.T. Barnum-like way it's used working, even if you have to be stupid and/or wealthy to give a shit.

    Evolution you can see because the origin of species (since I don't see Creationists ever get into the nitty gritty of how if there's no evolution there's different species of dogs or the reason why we're supposed to take all of our antibiotics) interferes with deeply held beliefs.

    But the "Hargle-bargle! Global Warming is fake! Screw Al Gore!" makes no sense to me. Even if you think it is fake the end goal is still better air and water and quality of life, something evolution or abortion don't address. Whether or not we evolved from primates doesn't give me purer water, it doesn't help my asthma by having less crap in the air.

    It's the same thing. Like it was said above, oil and gas donate a fuckton to Republicans and Democrats. Also, it costs more to "green" up technology, so the climate change deniers get Joe Voter to be all "Oh no, the Job Creators are sad!"

    And now there's the added "Free Market" level, where morons like Ron Paul say "the market will figure all of this out!"

    Government regulation of industry is expensive, so those who make there money there will do anything they can to get those regulations taken away, especially if it involves convincing people with bad opinions that they're right.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Sorry to bump this up again, but the following graph is too good not to share:

    SkepticsvRealists_500.gif

    I adore this.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Or,

    Greed, for lack of a better word, is destroying Democracy.

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  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    It started late here, but we get absolutely pounded, it was shitty cold too. And then we had a warm spell for like a week with 80 degree days, then back down to freezing and today here we are, I guess it's kind of 50 out some days and frost/ice on my windshield the others.

    You'll catch more bees with honey than vinegar. Global warming is played off as "amg look at all the deserts! No food!" People, especially around here where your balls freeze off in the winter, don't understand that and find it false.

    It snowed twice this year in Lawrence Kansas.

    Both times the snow had melted before 24 hours had passed.

    And then it was like 65 degrees the next day.

    We had a week not too long ago where it was like 80 degrees. In March. In CANADA!!!

    But the real crazyness was those tornados that hit at the end of February down in the US. How often do Tornadoes hit in February??

    It's not uncommon. It is pretty uncommon to have an outbreak of that strength in February, though.

    I had a really mild winter this year (10 degrees above average most of the time), but last winter was unusually cold with 3 major snow/ice events in the Deep South. Climatology be hard, yo.

    a5ehren on
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Well that's going to be the main effect of climate change for the first world, common weather in uncommon times (and places). America and Europe won't be drowning or starving to death (for a while), it's going to be "Huh, these tornadoes sure are getting uppity"

    Lh96QHG.png
  • ElitistbElitistb Registered User regular
    But the "Hargle-bargle! Global Warming is fake! Screw Al Gore!" makes no sense to me. Even if you think it is fake the end goal is still better air and water and quality of life, something evolution or abortion don't address. Whether or not we evolved from primates doesn't give me purer water, it doesn't help my asthma by having less crap in the air.
    Climate-Cartoon.jpg

    steam_sig.png
  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular
    Well, the media certainly doesn't help, either. Back in the day people like Walter Cronkite would basically tell John Birchers to STFU and get back in line with reality while today Tea Partiers are given chance to voice their opinions and have them discussed like they matter.

    So now we have people whose entire opinion is something antithetical to their own welfare, let alone that of mankind, treated as if anything they feel matters one bit.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Well, the media certainly doesn't help, either. Back in the day people like Walter Cronkite would basically tell John Birchers to STFU and get back in line with reality while today Tea Partiers are given chance to voice their opinions and have them discussed like they matter.

    So now we have people whose entire opinion is something antithetical to their own welfare, let alone that of mankind, treated as if anything they feel matters one bit.

    Unhelpful rhetoric that prevents us from finding common cause is what I'm talking about here.

  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Well, the media certainly doesn't help, either. Back in the day people like Walter Cronkite would basically tell John Birchers to STFU and get back in line with reality while today Tea Partiers are given chance to voice their opinions and have them discussed like they matter.

    So now we have people whose entire opinion is something antithetical to their own welfare, let alone that of mankind, treated as if anything they feel matters one bit.

    Unhelpful rhetoric that prevents us from finding common cause is what I'm talking about here.

    "You can have better water, air, and life now!"

    "Screw that, man, that Al Gore's a Democrat!"

    One of those statements is harmful to oneself let alone humanity at large and should be treated with disdain.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Well, the media certainly doesn't help, either. Back in the day people like Walter Cronkite would basically tell John Birchers to STFU and get back in line with reality while today Tea Partiers are given chance to voice their opinions and have them discussed like they matter.

    So now we have people whose entire opinion is something antithetical to their own welfare, let alone that of mankind, treated as if anything they feel matters one bit.

    Unhelpful rhetoric that prevents us from finding common cause is what I'm talking about here.

    "You can have better water, air, and life now!"

    "Screw that, man, that Al Gore's a Democrat!"

    One of those statements is harmful to oneself let alone humanity at large and should be treated with disdain.

    Treating conservatives with disdain because they think Al Gore is a moron will not save the planet. If we're all going to burn and 70% of species will go extinct and calamity is imminent, don't you think it's time to stow the superior attitude and try to find common cause with the people you will need to have onside to save the earth?

    I mean, if you're right and these people are so hopelessly benighted that all you can summon up to feel for them is a curled lip, and you just go ahead and sneer in their faces knowing it makes them hate you even more, what does that say about how much you really believe we're all doomed?

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Mostly hard for people to care about global warming with record cold temperatures, snow out the ass, testicles that retreat inside your body, and so on. And the fact that I haven't had to run my air conditioner very much in the past 4 years.

    Global Dimming + Global Climate Change, race, go!

    Was any of that true for this winter?

    This was the mildest winter I ever recall in my life.

    Mild winters and abnormally cold winters are both signs of climate change.

    Statements like this are one of the reasons it's hard for people to buy into the idea. Correct or not, it's just ridiculous to hear.

    I just want to point out that conservatives and environmentalists should have a lot of common cause on this issue, but the rhetoric on both sides is exceptionally poisonous to any potential alliance. I've called myself a conservationist since I was old enough to know what it meant, and reject the environmentalist label as long as I've know it existed. You don't even have to believe the science to agree that clean energy and safeguarding the environment are worthy goals any good conservative should want to pursue.

    National self-reliance, preserving clean air and water, and being a good steward to the planet are all bedrock christian and conservative ideas. We should be able to come together around them and find solutions to climate problems, but it seems the political baggage on both sides makes it impossible.

    Which is why the average leyman shouldn't be making decisions on this issue. If "Mild winters and abnormally cold winters are both signs of climate change" is a statement you can't understand then you aren't qualified to have an opinion. You can have an opinion on what the balance of loss/gain from doing things is but you don't get to argue about what those losses and gains will be. So maye you work on a shrimp boat and the scientists/economists say "Look, you have to stop fishing shrimp 60 more days a year and install an oil filter on your boat engine, and in 5 years you need to use a biodiesel boat. It will cost $10000. In exchange you'll increase shrimp take 500% in three decades, and create 10000 more acres of marshland etc" then you can say 'all that future stuff isn't worth $10000' but you can't say that they are wrong.

    The problem is that being good to the planet and preserving clean air and water SHOULD be ideas Christians are clamoring for (good servant parable, dominion over the earth granted by god, future generations etc) but they aren't since it requires them to accept that mankind is capable of changing the earth from it's natural state. If mankind can change the earth, destroying species in a massive extinction event, then it shows that change is a big part of life on earth and effectively demands evolution be true in response to that change. It also is in contrast to the whole 'I promise to never destroy the earth again' rainbow promise. As such, religious fundamentalists pose a huge threat to the earth when their religion effectively demands they be good stewards of it.

    Hell, I'd expect the pope to be making regular 'ALL CATHOLICS MUST STOP POLLUTING' statements. He has divine authority.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Well, the media certainly doesn't help, either. Back in the day people like Walter Cronkite would basically tell John Birchers to STFU and get back in line with reality while today Tea Partiers are given chance to voice their opinions and have them discussed like they matter.

    So now we have people whose entire opinion is something antithetical to their own welfare, let alone that of mankind, treated as if anything they feel matters one bit.

    Unhelpful rhetoric that prevents us from finding common cause is what I'm talking about here.

    "You can have better water, air, and life now!"

    "Screw that, man, that Al Gore's a Democrat!"

    One of those statements is harmful to oneself let alone humanity at large and should be treated with disdain.

    Treating conservatives with disdain because they think Al Gore is a moron will not save the planet. If we're all going to burn and 70% of species will go extinct and calamity is imminent, don't you think it's time to stow the superior attitude and try to find common cause with the people you will need to have onside to save the earth?

    I mean, if you're right and these people are so hopelessly benighted that all you can summon up to feel for them is a curled lip, and you just go ahead and sneer in their faces knowing it makes them hate you even more, what does that say about how much you really believe we're all doomed?

    He's not talking about the average guy who isn't convinced that climate change is happening or manmade, he's talking about the morons who refuse to listen to anything Al Gore says.

    There's no common ground with someone who denies reality, Spool.

    I'm all for framing the narrative so that it greets the biggest audience, because even if climate change isn't happening (which it is), getting industry to be cleaner and having a better environment are all good things. To quote Bill O'Reilly "Less gunk in the air is better for everyone".

    But there is a large segment, which has basically co-opted our party, that doesn't accept that any of this is happening.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular

    He's not talking about the average guy who isn't convinced that climate change is happening or manmade, he's talking about the morons who refuse to listen to anything Al Gore says.

    There's no common ground with someone who denies reality, Spool.

    Exactly.:^:

    And if the media actually gave a crap or had reporters that mattered they wouldn't give these people a platform. My point about Cronkite was that he was smart enough to know that if you discuss an a crazy person's ideas like they matter and aren't crazy, it gives the rest of the potential crazies a launch point whereas if you deny them legitimacy (not a voice, just a voice that is treated as valid) the rest'll at least closet their ideas and go along with society so as to not make themselves look bad.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Then what we need to do is remind everyone that it doesn't matter. We can't pull stewardship of the environment out of the mass of unpalatable retrograde leftwing self-flagellation fast enough! But on the one hand we have the left wing refusing to decouple climate change from naturalist anti-human stupidity, OWS anti-corporate rage, and borderline paranoia, and on the other we have a small but vocal subset of the right wing unwilling to go anywhere near the left but very willing to make hay while the sun shines using the fact that Baptists are unwelcome in the environmentalist tent but Earth First is pretty much OK.

    Long sentence is long.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    By the way, I refuse to listen to anything Al Gore says. He's a hypocrite of the first order, and his movie was terrible pastiche shot through with inaccuracies.

    I still think we should end fossil fuel use altogether. Also we should ban the gas-powered push lawnmower, and the gas-powered leaf blower.

    spool32 on
  • Mad King GeorgeMad King George Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    By the way, I refuse to listen to anything Al Gore says. He's a hypocrite of the first order, and his movie was terrible pastiche shot through with inaccuracies.

    I still think we should end fossil fuel use altogether. Also we should ban the gas-powered push lawnmower, and the gas-powered leaf blower.

    But you get that there are people who think your first sentence is a sound reason to not follow your second sentence. That's what I'm talking about.

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Good thing there's plenty of evidence outside of Al Gore and the "retrograde leftwing self-flagellation" thing you're talking about then.

    I'm not left wing, I get my environmentalist streak from Teddy Roosevelt, my religion, and growing up in rural Florida.


    On a side note, I think maybe sometimes you should think about the way you frame your opinions, Spool, for pretty much the same reasons you were saying to MKG.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Then what we need to do is remind everyone that it doesn't matter. We can't pull stewardship of the environment out of the mass of unpalatable retrograde leftwing self-flagellation fast enough! But on the one hand we have the left wing refusing to decouple climate change from naturalist anti-human stupidity, OWS anti-corporate rage, and borderline paranoia, and on the other we have a small but vocal subset of the right wing unwilling to go anywhere near the left but very willing to make hay while the sun shines using the fact that Baptists are unwelcome in the environmentalist tent but Earth First is pretty much OK.

    Long sentence is long.

    The problem is that the 'crazies' on the left wing have a point. There are probably too many people, and population control will need to be part of a long term solution to the climate. Corporations are working against us, skewing the facts and trying to 'eat the future' to maximize profits today. We will need to re-incentivize long term thinking and stewardship from corportations in order to have a solution to climate change. Humans ARE to blame for this problem, we COULD have acted sooner and be in a much better situation today, we should have a certain amount of 'God, we are all idiots for not listening, we've destroyed so much!' in our psychology. And there are people actively working to undermine the environmentalist movement for no reason other than a hatred of goals which come from the left. There literally are people working in the shadows to undermine them.

    Yes, if the right would agree to start working hard to fix things and make changes then I'd tell the left to throw out their tye dye, grab their bibles and praise jesus, but the right has more reasons for not acting than just because the idea is assosciated with the left.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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