Unfortunate side effect of the LFR system. People roll need on everything they can. I have seen this in several instances where people with same level or better gear rolling need and winning items.
You mean a side effect of anything with dice. I lost three tanking pieces in a row to three separate DKs the other night, and that shit is ridiculous. Why not implement LFR rolling rules into LFD? As it is, there's no real way to roll "OS need" and I don't know if it's because everyone is trying to inflate their iLvl but shit is getting jacked right and left.
Yea it's pretty bad at the moment. Hopefully that kind of behavior will die out quickly but right now greed is running rampant.
To be fair, some of the itemization and wacky procs in DS make the LFR stuff better than certain heroic FL pieces, especially when we're talking trinkets and weapons.
But yeah, I don't know why the system allows some of the stuff it does. On my shaman the other day, I saw a DK win the agi polearm and a bear tank win a caster one-hand off Madness. I know the system can't currently distinguish between an ele and enhance sham (which is how an enhance sham stole another piece from me for his alleged resto main spec), but it's just weird that they can't put more restrictions on things. There are so few items in DS, and they've obviously done it for trinkets a little, so it's odd that there aren't more narrow parameters for weapon rolls especially.
So apparently the mobile armory says epic gems can be bought for 2500JP. I hope that's a spoiler for the next update, because those gems are way too rare right now.
I'm gonna be honest guys. I'm one of the people that groups with 5 or more people and needs on anything and everything we need so I can trade to my friends.
I won't, however, roll on something none of us want. Most of the "ninjas" are probably the same as me. Just giving their friends extra rolls.
So the sudden and apparently massive drop in population on my horde server has resulted in completely unreasonable prices for materials and stuff. Greater Celestials for 300g. Inferno Rubys, Uncut for 400-500g, and everything is pretty much in that same 3-5x the price two weeks ago range.
I refuse to enchant/gem my gear with this shit.
Windrunner? or did you have your horde shaman on another realm because I can enchant and cut some to most of the gems
I'm gonna be honest guys. I'm one of the people that groups with 5 or more people and needs on anything and everything we need so I can trade to my friends.
I won't, however, roll on something none of us want. Most of the "ninjas" are probably the same as me. Just giving their friends extra rolls.
It's just simple game theory. People fuck with me, I'm not gonna be nice and assume they'll be nice later. They won't. So I just play to my best interests, as is everyone else.
To be fair, some of the itemization and wacky procs in DS make the LFR stuff better than certain heroic FL pieces, especially when we're talking trinkets and weapons.
But yeah, I don't know why the system allows some of the stuff it does. On my shaman the other day, I saw a DK win the agi polearm and a bear tank win a caster one-hand off Madness. I know the system can't currently distinguish between an ele and enhance sham (which is how an enhance sham stole another piece from me for his alleged resto main spec), but it's just weird that they can't put more restrictions on things. There are so few items in DS, and they've obviously done it for trinkets a little, so it's odd that there aren't more narrow parameters for weapon rolls especially.
Well as usual nothing will change until 5.0 when Blizzard said they will have a more Spec-based looting system for LFR. It seems like they break shit and then charge us an expansion for the fixes....
It's just simple game theory. People fuck with me, I'm not gonna be nice and assume they'll be nice later. They won't. So I just play to my best interests, as is everyone else.
That isn't simple game theory, that is just selfishness, and not everyone acts like you claim I assure you.
I'm gonna be honest guys. I'm one of the people that groups with 5 or more people and needs on anything and everything we need so I can trade to my friends.
I won't, however, roll on something none of us want. Most of the "ninjas" are probably the same as me. Just giving their friends extra rolls.
It's just simple game theory. People fuck with me, I'm not gonna be nice and assume they'll be nice later. They won't. So I just play to my best interests, as is everyone else.
That isn't simple game theory, that is just selfishness, and not everyone acts like you claim I assure you.
Yeah, there's a name for people that don't:
suckers.
I don't really like the system myself, but this is the prisoner's dilemma all over again. Everyone is painfully aware of how vulnerable they are to this BS, and since it's pretty much impossible to hold people accountable, the best way to not be a victim is to be a perp.
Is that the moral thing? Hell no. But it's also a fact that there's just no way that I'm going to convince 20+ people that I don't know to trust one another, join hands, and sing kumbaya.
Public opinion does a surprising lot. There's tons of people who, shockingly!, aren't dicks to other people even if those other people can't do anything about it.
Besides, most of the ninjas are not like you. Most of the time when someone ninjas something it's a lone perpetrator, not two or three guilded people (which is not to say that the latter doesn't also happen often). Edit: Oh in case of LFR, yeah, probably a lot of ninjas that run with guildies and need on stuff.
The game has desperately needed better loot rules since vanilla because of people like you, Topia.
What I don't understand is why Blizzard doesn't seem to realize how important the loot aspect of the game truly is—at least to me.
I read some of the complaints from people raiding about running for weeks (months) without getting some of the upgrades they need and I have to question what there is to look forward to even if my guild somehow did manage to start raiding; I really cannot stand randomness.
"Thrill of the hunt" is garbage and makes me want to go play something else; justice points are by far my favorite thing in the game because I can just grab all the stuff I want, the end.
Everything in the game should be made into a point system with bonus items dropping from raids and dungeons, just like how justice works for 5-mans. In the ideal system, you should be able to get absolutely everything from the two point vendors (dungeon and raid), including weapons. You could make it so that the bonus drop items are often better itemized, or something, I suppose. Unfortunately, Blizzard's behavioural psychologists would probably vote down this suggestion immediately.
I despise how valor works, too, because after having run 7 dungeons on some of my toons I now feel like unsubbing and playing something else because there's no progression left after JP. I realize this feeling would be mitigated a lot if I could actually raid, however, but that's difficult to organize, apparently.
I want there to be an LFR option for normals and HMs, too, so that I can join the wipefest that sometimes ends in the best loot. It's just hard to justify paying a month's subscription if there's nothing to do that I care about past 2 days out of 7 (and that's only because I have a ton of alts that I can also run dungeons on if I care).
There's no reason not to roll on loot that you need. That's the entire point of the system.
If you're just rolling on everything you can because somebody took something from you last time, that just makes you an asshole. The current system isn't very good at preventing people from being assholes and there aren't really any repercussions so do what you want I guess, but this right here
I don't really like the system myself, but this is the prisoner's dilemma all over again. Everyone is painfully aware of how vulnerable they are to this BS, and since it's pretty much impossible to hold people accountable, the best way to not be a victim is to be a perp.
is some third grade level moral reasoning
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It's a shame lots of you think that way, because if you didn't you'd have the loot you wanted.
Plus, it's not like I'm actively being a dick. In fact, all I'm doing is supporting a friend. I would never roll need just because I can then go vendor if I won. That's being a dick.
I don't feel comfortable rolling against someone's main spec if it's off spec gear for me. It just seems like such a jerk thing to do and it's frustrating because I know I won't necessarily be afforded that same courtesy when I'm tanking. I'm less inclined to be courteous if someone's being a greedy jerk though. It really ruins the mood when someone starts pulling that crap.
Sometimes people don't respect the main spec before off spec idea. Whatever. They're going to use it eventually so I can deal with it. It's the ones that roll need on everything that isn't nailed down that piss me off.
I wouldn't roll need on something I didn't want or a guildmate wouldn't want, because that would just get vendored and that would be silly.
But if a guildy wants it and I can need on it? And they tell me to need on it? I'll do it, because I can be sure everyone else is going to be doing the same damn thing.
So, you see $20 on the street. You're fairly well off so $20 doesn't mean much to you. For whatever reason your principals are to not give away your current sum of money. Your friend is with you, and he desperately wants that $20. So do 23 other people in the immediate vicinity.
You're nice to your friends, so you run with him to get the money before everyone else so you can give it to him if you win the race. You do, and you give it to him.
Congratulations, you're the biggest dick in the world.
Ha, funny that I'd stumble into a ninja loot fight right now. See, I just did the latter half of DS LFR as a moonkin and the final boss dropped two bear polearms and the poison dagger. I saw DKs and Warriors rolling on the polearms so I rolled need on both as well as on the dagger because we had a bear tank in the raid and I was not going to let him get his weapon ninjaed by idiots. I ended up winning one of the staves with him not winning the other so I said Happy Holidays to the bear and gave him the staff. I ended up also getting the dagger, so karma yeah bitches.
Its more like, here's $20 that by some kind of magic only you and four other people can see or interact with. Also that $20 materialized out of nothing; nobody originally owned that $20. Also your friend and at least one of those other three people spent the last thirty minutes of their life searching for that $20, at least one of those other people desperately wants that $20 just as much as your friend, and they did the exact same amount of work to reach it.
If you think not giving them their fair shot at it is right, then yeah, you're being a dick, and being part of the problem.
Guess what? I queue up with my guildies too, and guess what i don't do? Roll need on hunter gear as a Ret Paladin so I can trade it to my friend if I win it. I don't care if the system allows it right now, I know it's not meant to and I'm not going to do somebody that way just because I can. Just because there are no consequences doesn't make it okay to do the wrong thing. Hopefully my good karma means I'm not going to have the Deathwing 2h sword ninjaed from me by a hunter, but even if that did happen, I wouldn't cry and then start doing that to other people.
Hopefully they'll get a fix in soon. It's not like it's not possible for them to code it right. I don't get a role bonus on holy paladin gear for instance, so I shouldn't get it for AGI gear either, and vice versa.
It's a shame lots of you think that way, because if you didn't you'd have the loot you wanted.
Plus, it's not like I'm actively being a dick. In fact, all I'm doing is supporting a friend. I would never roll need just because I can then go vendor if I won. That's being a dick.
No, your being a dick.
Also, I did get the loot I wanted. It didn't require being a dick. Shocking, I know.
I hate my dice. I haven't won a raid drop in like 9 weeks. Decided I'd try LRF to at least get something--Killed Deathwing in LRF and lost the strength 2-hander to a hunter.
I posted this in the rules thread, but I'll bring it up here: the old class threads have been closed. We're going to do things based on role for now in order to free up some real estate for the influx of TOR threads. So that's three threads for class discussion.
It's more like, your friend and those like him - let's call them the Red Shirts - have always had claim to this particular kind of $20 bill. Your type, the Pink Shirts, don't need it, and have never been permitted from joining the race. Something stupid happened lately, though, and the law banning Pink Shirts from doing the Red Shirt race is lifted. Now, it's been part of the social fabric and understanding of the culture that the race SHOULD still be between the Red Shirts, but Pink Shirts are suddenly jumping in as soon as the restriction is lifted.
As a Pink Shirt, I have two choices: I can stand back and let my friend fend for himself against the combined Pinks and Reds swarming over the bill, saying to myself "Well, at least *I* didn't break the rules!", or I can try to balance the scales by helping my friend.
Participating in the loot dogpile is not 100% moral, but letting a friend participate in a grossly unfair competition when you could help him isn't a bed of roses either, IMO.
So, what's the deal with the loot fix everyone's talking about with MoP? Is there some details for their plan of attack, or is it pretty much "this won't be a problem next expansion pack, we promise?"
Because, this might sound a little strange, but as I recall the devs are less keen on keeping their promises, and more about "keeping" their promises.
I can't bring myself to roll on loot not for me either. Even when I'm running with guildies. There are people solo queueing, and being another dick in the dogpile just doesn't seem like it's helping things.
Like I mentioned above, I will go out of my way to try and help someone out who's being disenfranchised by dicks, even if I don't know them and will never see them again. I will not help guildies win rolls by rolling on stuff nor will I roll on stuff I don't need unless it's specifically to counter an explicit dickery going down.
So, what's the deal with the loot fix everyone's talking about with MoP? Is there some details for their plan of attack, or is it pretty much "this won't be a problem next expansion pack, we promise?"
Because, this might sound a little strange, but as I recall the devs are less keen on keeping their promises, and more about "keeping" their promises.
The plan is for the loot system to do a better job of differentiating between classes.
Like, right now it knows whether you're a tank or a dps or a healer, and it knows what gear you can't equip (mostly), but it doesn't know much else.
For example, it doesn't differentiate between DPS classes that get a spirit>hit conversion and those that don't, so mages/warlocks are able to roll on spirit gear. It can't tell between types of tanks, so bear tanks are able to roll on str jewelry and plate tanks can roll on agi jewelry. Warriors and DKs can roll on agility polearms, etc.
In MoP it will (presumably) be able to assign roll priority based on class and spec rather than just what roll you queued as.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The idea that gear has to drop from a boss is an outdated one. It made a little more sense in Vanilla/BC when pugs were less prevalent, but not today. Just give everyone VPs and put the gear on vendors. Instead, bosses can still drop mounts, patterns, raw gems, pets, and other rewards that anyone can put to use. In the case of LFR/LFD, make Greed and Pass the only options. Solved.
Blizzard doesn't like your idea mercade, because they believe that only having loot on vendors "cheapens" the thrill of downing a boss and getting rewarded with a random piece of loot. RNG also makes it so that gearing is unpredictable, which they like.
If it were just a matter of points, then--I can only assume--gear acquisition would feel to "grindy"
Has anyone actually seen [A Treatise on Strategy] ?
Here I thought Soothsayer's Runes would be the hard part. 20 eligible heroic bosses later, I haven't ever seen it. Apparently the darkmoon guide isn't even required to roll either. There is only one on the AH, for 20,000g.
To be faire, the new area is awesome and the dailies are fun, but this artifact is pretty ridiculous.
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Yea it's pretty bad at the moment. Hopefully that kind of behavior will die out quickly but right now greed is running rampant.
But yeah, I don't know why the system allows some of the stuff it does. On my shaman the other day, I saw a DK win the agi polearm and a bear tank win a caster one-hand off Madness. I know the system can't currently distinguish between an ele and enhance sham (which is how an enhance sham stole another piece from me for his alleged resto main spec), but it's just weird that they can't put more restrictions on things. There are so few items in DS, and they've obviously done it for trinkets a little, so it's odd that there aren't more narrow parameters for weapon rolls especially.
I won't, however, roll on something none of us want. Most of the "ninjas" are probably the same as me. Just giving their friends extra rolls.
Windrunner? or did you have your horde shaman on another realm because I can enchant and cut some to most of the gems
You make the game suck for other people.
Well as usual nothing will change until 5.0 when Blizzard said they will have a more Spec-based looting system for LFR. It seems like they break shit and then charge us an expansion for the fixes....
That isn't simple game theory, that is just selfishness, and not everyone acts like you claim I assure you.
Yes, be part of the problem. That'll fix it.
Yeah, there's a name for people that don't:
suckers.
I don't really like the system myself, but this is the prisoner's dilemma all over again. Everyone is painfully aware of how vulnerable they are to this BS, and since it's pretty much impossible to hold people accountable, the best way to not be a victim is to be a perp.
Is that the moral thing? Hell no. But it's also a fact that there's just no way that I'm going to convince 20+ people that I don't know to trust one another, join hands, and sing kumbaya.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
The game has desperately needed better loot rules since vanilla because of people like you, Topia.
What I don't understand is why Blizzard doesn't seem to realize how important the loot aspect of the game truly is—at least to me.
I read some of the complaints from people raiding about running for weeks (months) without getting some of the upgrades they need and I have to question what there is to look forward to even if my guild somehow did manage to start raiding; I really cannot stand randomness.
"Thrill of the hunt" is garbage and makes me want to go play something else; justice points are by far my favorite thing in the game because I can just grab all the stuff I want, the end.
Everything in the game should be made into a point system with bonus items dropping from raids and dungeons, just like how justice works for 5-mans. In the ideal system, you should be able to get absolutely everything from the two point vendors (dungeon and raid), including weapons. You could make it so that the bonus drop items are often better itemized, or something, I suppose. Unfortunately, Blizzard's behavioural psychologists would probably vote down this suggestion immediately.
I despise how valor works, too, because after having run 7 dungeons on some of my toons I now feel like unsubbing and playing something else because there's no progression left after JP. I realize this feeling would be mitigated a lot if I could actually raid, however, but that's difficult to organize, apparently.
I want there to be an LFR option for normals and HMs, too, so that I can join the wipefest that sometimes ends in the best loot. It's just hard to justify paying a month's subscription if there's nothing to do that I care about past 2 days out of 7 (and that's only because I have a ton of alts that I can also run dungeons on if I care).
If you're just rolling on everything you can because somebody took something from you last time, that just makes you an asshole. The current system isn't very good at preventing people from being assholes and there aren't really any repercussions so do what you want I guess, but this right here
is some third grade level moral reasoning
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Plus, it's not like I'm actively being a dick. In fact, all I'm doing is supporting a friend. I would never roll need just because I can then go vendor if I won. That's being a dick.
Sometimes people don't respect the main spec before off spec idea. Whatever. They're going to use it eventually so I can deal with it. It's the ones that roll need on everything that isn't nailed down that piss me off.
But if a guildy wants it and I can need on it? And they tell me to need on it? I'll do it, because I can be sure everyone else is going to be doing the same damn thing.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
You're nice to your friends, so you run with him to get the money before everyone else so you can give it to him if you win the race. You do, and you give it to him.
Congratulations, you're the biggest dick in the world.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Its more like, here's $20 that by some kind of magic only you and four other people can see or interact with. Also that $20 materialized out of nothing; nobody originally owned that $20. Also your friend and at least one of those other three people spent the last thirty minutes of their life searching for that $20, at least one of those other people desperately wants that $20 just as much as your friend, and they did the exact same amount of work to reach it.
If you think not giving them their fair shot at it is right, then yeah, you're being a dick, and being part of the problem.
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And you are a dick for keeping someone else's money.
However, your analogy also neglects to mention that your friend can come back next week for a shot at another 20, too.
Oh, and your friend already has 10, and could live off 10 for months.
Hopefully they'll get a fix in soon. It's not like it's not possible for them to code it right. I don't get a role bonus on holy paladin gear for instance, so I shouldn't get it for AGI gear either, and vice versa.
No, your being a dick.
Also, I did get the loot I wanted. It didn't require being a dick. Shocking, I know.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
..wait no it's not
Then it won't start back up. I check "My Computer" and see my C: drive. Hmm...what happened to E: (and its partition brothers F: and G:)?
Reboot, all is well.
Play WoW again, and it locks up again.
Same thing, Windows 7 appears to have lost the hard drive.
In the process of checking drive integrity now....but why do I feel like I should be searching for a new hard drive?
As a Pink Shirt, I have two choices: I can stand back and let my friend fend for himself against the combined Pinks and Reds swarming over the bill, saying to myself "Well, at least *I* didn't break the rules!", or I can try to balance the scales by helping my friend.
Participating in the loot dogpile is not 100% moral, but letting a friend participate in a grossly unfair competition when you could help him isn't a bed of roses either, IMO.
I cannot wait until they fix this.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Because, this might sound a little strange, but as I recall the devs are less keen on keeping their promises, and more about "keeping" their promises.
The plan is for the loot system to do a better job of differentiating between classes.
Like, right now it knows whether you're a tank or a dps or a healer, and it knows what gear you can't equip (mostly), but it doesn't know much else.
For example, it doesn't differentiate between DPS classes that get a spirit>hit conversion and those that don't, so mages/warlocks are able to roll on spirit gear. It can't tell between types of tanks, so bear tanks are able to roll on str jewelry and plate tanks can roll on agi jewelry. Warriors and DKs can roll on agility polearms, etc.
In MoP it will (presumably) be able to assign roll priority based on class and spec rather than just what roll you queued as.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
If it were just a matter of points, then--I can only assume--gear acquisition would feel to "grindy"
Here I thought Soothsayer's Runes would be the hard part. 20 eligible heroic bosses later, I haven't ever seen it. Apparently the darkmoon guide isn't even required to roll either. There is only one on the AH, for 20,000g.
To be faire, the new area is awesome and the dailies are fun, but this artifact is pretty ridiculous.