posting on TL about naniwa has convinced me I should get an official masochism membership card. that's a thing, right? I'm a little scared of applying the google-fu.
edit: I saw you vari!
Torgairon on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
well, actually, there does need to be a rule prohibiting such behaviour.
it apparently does exist, although the wording is stupid and there is no way any reasonable person could interpret "not caring about a meaningless game" as "unfit to be a gamer"
I could
and I'm not the only one. This seemed really wrong to a lot of people.
You know what the cool thing about this whole "in other sports it would be!" argument is?
You can't properly apply it to SC2.
SC2 does not have a set game plan, so you can't fault Naniwa for "not participating" or "not playing a proper game". There IS no proper game in SC2. When does a "proper" game start? When you build your first combat unit? When the timer reaches 10 minutes?
The entire thing about this incident is business related. GOM doesn't give a shit about Naniwa's actual action, they just care about him not following their business/game plan and thereby disrupting business. Since they can't properly plan with someone who does this, they kick him out.
Problem solved.
posting on TL about naniwa has convinced me I should get an official masochism membership card. that's a thing, right? I'm a little scared of applying the google-fu.
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
I would agree, but I dunno. What can Naniwa possibly say that he hasn't already said for things that weren't nearly as big of a deal as this? He already called a tournament a fucking joke on stream. What could top that? I'm all Naniwa'd out. He maxed out the BM meter too early.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I don't think he's gonna say anything all that interesting but I am excited to see the response. I am not proud of this.
You know what the cool thing about this whole "in other sports it would be!" argument is?
You can't properly apply it to SC2.
SC2 does not have a set game plan, so you can't fault Naniwa for "not participating" or "not playing a proper game". There IS no proper game in SC2. When does a "proper" game start? When you build your first combat unit? When the timer reaches 10 minutes?
The entire thing about this incident is business related. GOM doesn't give a shit about Naniwa's actual action, they just care about him not following their business/game plan and thereby disrupting business. Since they can't properly plan with someone who does this, they kick him out.
Problem solved.
huh? how did he disrupt business?
He didn't play what GOM deems an "audience friendly game". You know, something that keeps people on the stream, makes them tell friends to tune in, etc...
He played a game that got tons of publicity, but the wrong kind. I know, I know, there is no bad publicity, but still this makes GOM look "less professional" and so they had to do damage control.
I mean, does anyone REALLY believe anyone at GOM went "OUR HONOR!! SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!! DISPENSE OF THIS FOREIGNER!!!"? TL.net certainly tries to make you believe that.
SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
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Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
Naniwa already responded
what he said boiled down to
"if i could do it again, i'd go back and just 4gate instead. takes a few minutes longer and no one would complain"
which is true. if he was really determined to throw the game, he could easily do it without anyone being any the wiser. any sort of cheese strategy would work. but rather than trying to conceal it he was just brutally honest, making it really obvious that he couldn't be bothered with a pointless and irrelevant match that shouldn't even have been being broadcasted.
Also, I don't understand the point of it being part of the format to begin with.
In the Code S groups in the old format, some groups had less matches than others because placing was decided early with a quick 2-0 for one player. So obviously they didn't feel the need to play out unnecessary matches for the sake of it in those cases, so why do it in this case?
Dhalphir on
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Meh, I am sure a lot of the pros just write what the fans want to hear from them.
The fans go "OMG TERRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON!" so the pros go "YES! HE IS, WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS!" and the fans get all fan-bonery over them: "Yes, yes you are our heroes, please accept our humble offerings!".
10$ that half of the pros would have done the same as Naniwa if they didn't care this much about their career. Also, I guess they got their teams/coaches to keep them in line.
You know what the cool thing about this whole "in other sports it would be!" argument is?
You can't properly apply it to SC2.
SC2 does not have a set game plan, so you can't fault Naniwa for "not participating" or "not playing a proper game". There IS no proper game in SC2. When does a "proper" game start? When you build your first combat unit? When the timer reaches 10 minutes?
The entire thing about this incident is business related. GOM doesn't give a shit about Naniwa's actual action, they just care about him not following their business/game plan and thereby disrupting business. Since they can't properly plan with someone who does this, they kick him out.
Problem solved.
huh? how did he disrupt business?
He didn't play what GOM deems an "audience friendly game". You know, something that keeps people on the stream, makes them tell friends to tune in, etc...
He played a game that got tons of publicity, but the wrong kind. I know, I know, there is no bad publicity, but still this makes GOM look "less professional" and so they had to do damage control.
I mean, does anyone REALLY believe anyone at GOM went "OUR HONOR!! SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!! DISPENSE OF THIS FOREIGNER!!!"? TL.net certainly tries to make you believe that.
is this somehow an implication of the practice of punishing people who are contracted and paid to play games for you and then turn around and spit in your face? I'm kind of a fan of this practice, myself. yes, it's business, but it's business that's conducive to creating a solid viewing experience as well as a solid bottom-line.
I really wish they'd just hauled him in and given him a harsh scolding, however; I think we could have avoided the head-on-a-pike-outside-the-gates method they went with and gotten the same general results.
Torgairon on
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Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
See, that's the worst thing. He knew it too! He probably didn't expect the shitstorm, but he knew that he wasn't even pretending to show a game by probe rushing. That's the worst part! He couldn't even be fucked throwing the game with a 4gate despite it taking 5 minutes longer. That's why it's so disrespectful. Everyone knows that when playing for a game that doesn't matter, players don't really care. But Naniwa basically said fuck you all, this isn't worth 5 minutes more of my time.
@Klyka I'm pretty sure those messages were before there was a fan outrage. And him not caring is part of the problem. Almost all of them care about their career, or they wouldn't be in a Korean team. MKP and GuineaPig's messages are the best. So many pro gamers hoping to get on TV even once, and meanwhile he gets invited and then does this.
which is true. if he was really determined to throw the game, he could easily do it without anyone being any the wiser. any sort of cheese strategy would work. but rather than trying to conceal it he was just brutally honest, making it really obvious that he couldn't be bothered with a pointless and irrelevant match that shouldn't even have been being broadcasted.
which makes it quite clear that he's either a douche that's trying to make some misguided stand without providing the show he's contracted to put on or an emotional clusterfuck, sadly.
See, that's the worst thing. He knew it too! He probably didn't expect the shitstorm, but he knew that he wasn't even pretending to show a game by probe rushing. That's the worst part! He couldn't even be fucked throwing the game with a 4gate despite it taking 5 minutes longer. That's why it's so disrespectful. Everyone knows that when playing for a game that doesn't matter, players don't really care. But Naniwa basically said fuck you all, this isn't worth 5 minutes more of my time.
yeah, this. I'll take it back to TL now, you people are far too sane for me.
on a non-lame note, is anyone having problems with the stream crashing every couple minutes? I'm being punished for typing instead of watching...
He's paid a salary to represent his team both in and out of the game and he's paid to play Starcraft 2. It's his JOB. I can't think of any other career where someone showing such a blatant disrespect for their employers and their clients would go unpunished, and that's really the end of the story for me.
In any other sport, even if a 'friendly' game, the player would be benched for a while, have his wages docked, or both. Simple as that.
Spaffy on
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
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Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
Nope, GOM player is fine for me. Twitch was crashing a lot during SOTG though, so if you're watching the twitch stream, try using GOM player.
MVP is a monster. This is kind of disgusting to watch.
what he said boiled down to
"if i could do it again, i'd go back and just 4gate instead. takes a few minutes longer and no one would complain"
which is true. if he was really determined to throw the game, he could easily do it without anyone being any the wiser. any sort of cheese strategy would work. but rather than trying to conceal it he was just brutally honest, making it really obvious that he couldn't be bothered with a pointless and irrelevant match that shouldn't even have been being broadcasted.
Also, I don't understand the point of it being part of the format to begin with.
In the Code S groups in the old format, some groups had less matches than others because placing was decided early with a quick 2-0 for one player. So obviously they didn't feel the need to play out unnecessary matches for the sake of it in those cases, so why do it in this case?
this is the best of the best and clearly they aimed to offer a lot of different matchups.
also, why are the games pointless and irrelevant? does naniwa seriously not have any pride in himself whatsoever? no interest in showing the world he can beat nestea?
there are many reasons to play a game besides direct placement in a tournament. another reason would be that you are scheduled to play it as part of the tournament (that you were paid for) no matter what your placement is.
Meh, I am sure a lot of the pros just write what the fans want to hear from them.
The fans go "OMG TERRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON!" so the pros go "YES! HE IS, WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS!" and the fans get all fan-bonery over them: "Yes, yes you are our heroes, please accept our humble offerings!".
10$ that half of the pros would have done the same as Naniwa if they didn't care this much about their career. Also, I guess they got their teams/coaches to keep them in line.
you're saying this like it's bad to care about your career or like public figures have no interest in behaving in a positive way.
and I don't really understand your other post. they have a rule about not behaving certain ways so yeah I think that had something to do with it. I'm sure not wanting to look bad as a tournament also had something to do with it...
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
artosis commenting on it now
edit - paycheck doesn't make sense as people have pointed out that he doesn't play consolation matches at MLG which can effect your payout (assuming this is true, just something I've read on TL)
I'm sorry to waste your guys' time but is probe rush beating a 6 pool actually a real phenomenon? TL is trying its hivemind hardest to convince me it is.
what he said boiled down to
"if i could do it again, i'd go back and just 4gate instead. takes a few minutes longer and no one would complain"
which is true. if he was really determined to throw the game, he could easily do it without anyone being any the wiser. any sort of cheese strategy would work. but rather than trying to conceal it he was just brutally honest, making it really obvious that he couldn't be bothered with a pointless and irrelevant match that shouldn't even have been being broadcasted.
Also, I don't understand the point of it being part of the format to begin with.
In the Code S groups in the old format, some groups had less matches than others because placing was decided early with a quick 2-0 for one player. So obviously they didn't feel the need to play out unnecessary matches for the sake of it in those cases, so why do it in this case?
this is the best of the best and clearly they aimed to offer a lot of different matchups.
also, why are the games pointless and irrelevant? does naniwa seriously not have any pride in himself whatsoever? no interest in showing the world he can beat nestea?
there are many reasons to play a game besides direct placement in a tournament. another reason would be that you are scheduled to play it as part of the tournament (that you were paid for) no matter what your placement is.
Meh, I am sure a lot of the pros just write what the fans want to hear from them.
The fans go "OMG TERRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON!" so the pros go "YES! HE IS, WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS!" and the fans get all fan-bonery over them: "Yes, yes you are our heroes, please accept our humble offerings!".
10$ that half of the pros would have done the same as Naniwa if they didn't care this much about their career. Also, I guess they got their teams/coaches to keep them in line.
you're saying this like it's bad to care about your career or like public figures have no interest in behaving in a positive way.
and I don't really understand your other post. they have a rule about not behaving certain ways so yeah I think that had something to do with it. I'm sure not wanting to look bad as a tournament also had something to do with it...
liquidtyler made the argument that questioned why naniwa should give it his all and do a strategy he worked hard to make on a match that wouldn't gain him any tournament results
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I'm sorry to waste your guys' time but is probe rush beating a 6 pool actually a real phenomenon? TL is trying its hivemind hardest to convince me it is.
there is no way that would happen. its 6 probes vs 5 drones, which isn't guaranteed for the protoss by any means, and if the pool finishes and even a pair of lings gets out with any drones left alive, its over.
I would actually want to see Naniwa try and 4gate Nestea, I'm guessing that would be the first time in months he would have to defend against that. If it worked, it would be kind of hilarious.
I'm sorry to waste your guys' time but is probe rush beating a 6 pool actually a real phenomenon? TL is trying its hivemind hardest to convince me it is.
there is no way that would happen. its 6 probes vs 5 drones, which isn't guaranteed for the protoss by any means, and if the pool finishes and even a pair of lings gets out with any drones left alive, its over.
I mean, I know this is true beyond the shadow of a doubt without your help (no offense dhal) but these goddamn TL posters...it's like, they believe so zealously, maybe they know something I don't...
how do you guys deal with raging anger after a game? It gets to the point where I agonise over games that I lost for HOURS afterwards. This is a huge problem when I usually stop playing only 15-30mins before bedtime. last night I ended up laying in bed awake for a good 30 mins thinking over each game and telling myself how fucking shit I am at this game.
Dhal, when I played SC1 I got so angry in campaign mode alone, and that experience made me hesitant to even try SC2 in the first place. But I think what did it for me is really just something day9 said, that this is a game and it's meant to be fun, and if it's not fun then why are you playing it?
I know that at your level it's probably a million times more frustrating because you are so much more invested in it than me at this point, but you have to know that you're not going to win 100% of the time and just be okay with it. And forget what you woulda coulda shoulda done, you have to remember that what you DID do was a lot of things right.
gl dude, I'll be here to cheer you on
seguer if you can keep my schedule in mind (6pm-9:30pm perth time weeknights, midday->10pm saturdays, all day sunday) and you want to sign me up for tournaments, i would totally be happy to split any winnings with you to some degree (some REASONABLE degree :P). i just don't like organisational stuff - much easier when someone can tell me where to show up and when.
edit: this would actually be cool to do with more people than just me.
I'll do it with you dhal!
...if only to make you and everyone else look good. But if you started streaming I would totes watch!
narwhal on
Narwhal#1834
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
no one said he had to use some secret strategy, assuming he developed one
Do they archive these things? They're on too late at night for me to watch.
Narwhal#1834
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I get so depressed and angry BEFORE even playing, that I don't play at all.
Like, I watch some SC2 and think "that looks fun, I should play a game" and then I immediately go through the game in my head and lose all excitement for it.
Posts
edit: I saw you vari!
I could
and I'm not the only one. This seemed really wrong to a lot of people.
huh? how did he disrupt business?
I hope we agree
i need to consume drama
coincidentally I just got my xbox live refund (my account was hacked) and can afford a ticket
He didn't play what GOM deems an "audience friendly game". You know, something that keeps people on the stream, makes them tell friends to tune in, etc...
He played a game that got tons of publicity, but the wrong kind. I know, I know, there is no bad publicity, but still this makes GOM look "less professional" and so they had to do damage control.
I mean, does anyone REALLY believe anyone at GOM went "OUR HONOR!! SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!! DISPENSE OF THIS FOREIGNER!!!"? TL.net certainly tries to make you believe that.
@Klyka I can believe both sides. It's probably a little from both anyway. The Koreans are seriously pissed. Read the twitter shitstorm from the other Korean pros.
what he said boiled down to
"if i could do it again, i'd go back and just 4gate instead. takes a few minutes longer and no one would complain"
which is true. if he was really determined to throw the game, he could easily do it without anyone being any the wiser. any sort of cheese strategy would work. but rather than trying to conceal it he was just brutally honest, making it really obvious that he couldn't be bothered with a pointless and irrelevant match that shouldn't even have been being broadcasted.
Also, I don't understand the point of it being part of the format to begin with.
In the Code S groups in the old format, some groups had less matches than others because placing was decided early with a quick 2-0 for one player. So obviously they didn't feel the need to play out unnecessary matches for the sake of it in those cases, so why do it in this case?
The fans go "OMG TERRIBLE HORRIBLE PERSON!" so the pros go "YES! HE IS, WE WOULD NEVER DO THIS!" and the fans get all fan-bonery over them: "Yes, yes you are our heroes, please accept our humble offerings!".
10$ that half of the pros would have done the same as Naniwa if they didn't care this much about their career. Also, I guess they got their teams/coaches to keep them in line.
is this somehow an implication of the practice of punishing people who are contracted and paid to play games for you and then turn around and spit in your face? I'm kind of a fan of this practice, myself. yes, it's business, but it's business that's conducive to creating a solid viewing experience as well as a solid bottom-line.
I really wish they'd just hauled him in and given him a harsh scolding, however; I think we could have avoided the head-on-a-pike-outside-the-gates method they went with and gotten the same general results.
@Klyka I'm pretty sure those messages were before there was a fan outrage. And him not caring is part of the problem. Almost all of them care about their career, or they wouldn't be in a Korean team. MKP and GuineaPig's messages are the best. So many pro gamers hoping to get on TV even once, and meanwhile he gets invited and then does this.
which makes it quite clear that he's either a douche that's trying to make some misguided stand without providing the show he's contracted to put on or an emotional clusterfuck, sadly.
yeah, this. I'll take it back to TL now, you people are far too sane for me.
on a non-lame note, is anyone having problems with the stream crashing every couple minutes? I'm being punished for typing instead of watching...
In any other sport, even if a 'friendly' game, the player would be benched for a while, have his wages docked, or both. Simple as that.
Steam: adamjnet
MVP is a monster. This is kind of disgusting to watch.
sometimes it's just awkward to watch mvp jedi all over other terrans.
this is the best of the best and clearly they aimed to offer a lot of different matchups.
also, why are the games pointless and irrelevant? does naniwa seriously not have any pride in himself whatsoever? no interest in showing the world he can beat nestea?
there are many reasons to play a game besides direct placement in a tournament. another reason would be that you are scheduled to play it as part of the tournament (that you were paid for) no matter what your placement is.
you're saying this like it's bad to care about your career or like public figures have no interest in behaving in a positive way.
and I don't really understand your other post. they have a rule about not behaving certain ways so yeah I think that had something to do with it. I'm sure not wanting to look bad as a tournament also had something to do with it...
which is really goddamn depressing, if true
unlikely, though
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edit - paycheck doesn't make sense as people have pointed out that he doesn't play consolation matches at MLG which can effect your payout (assuming this is true, just something I've read on TL)
That man is living a hell of a life.
come watch a bad player play, rather than any of that silly blizzard cup gsl stuff
whyyyyyyy
liquidtyler made the argument that questioned why naniwa should give it his all and do a strategy he worked hard to make on a match that wouldn't gain him any tournament results
there is no way that would happen. its 6 probes vs 5 drones, which isn't guaranteed for the protoss by any means, and if the pool finishes and even a pair of lings gets out with any drones left alive, its over.
And Nani's 4 gate is beastly.
I mean, I know this is true beyond the shadow of a doubt without your help (no offense dhal) but these goddamn TL posters...it's like, they believe so zealously, maybe they know something I don't...
Dhal, when I played SC1 I got so angry in campaign mode alone, and that experience made me hesitant to even try SC2 in the first place. But I think what did it for me is really just something day9 said, that this is a game and it's meant to be fun, and if it's not fun then why are you playing it?
I know that at your level it's probably a million times more frustrating because you are so much more invested in it than me at this point, but you have to know that you're not going to win 100% of the time and just be okay with it. And forget what you woulda coulda shoulda done, you have to remember that what you DID do was a lot of things right.
gl dude, I'll be here to cheer you on
curse me actually playing decent people (for me) now
now i actually get games that are decently long
arghhhh
*shameless plug*
I'll do it with you dhal!
...if only to make you and everyone else look good. But if you started streaming I would totes watch!
Do they archive these things? They're on too late at night for me to watch.
Like, I watch some SC2 and think "that looks fun, I should play a game" and then I immediately go through the game in my head and lose all excitement for it.
You have the best user icon ever ever ever.
they tend to be up about a day or two after the show so
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