Man, I feel like I'm in exactly the wrong timezone for this forum. By morning there are 7 new pages that have sprung up while I'm asleep, since I go to bed so early. I miss all the tourneys, all the shows, and all the chatter.
At least I have an hour in the morning before school where I'm bored out of my mind and I can catch up with what people say.
Narwhal#1834
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
@narwhal you never did tell us if students talked to you about the stream!
We let the convict aussies babble back and forth with our couple Western representatives for a few pages for our amusement while we have our morning coffee/cereal. Think of them like the newspaper comics.
No need to soil your hands by interacting directly with the likes of the upside-down people.
Not really.
But really.
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
@narwhal you'll miss the gsl most days, but only australians, unemployed europeans and night owl americans are able to catch tthat live.
And the only reason i'm able to stay so active here is that i have all afternoon and evening to post, and i can visit the forums at work periodically to maek
In other news, I had a much better day of ladder today, hooray!!! Went 3-0 on ladder itself, then did some 6pool practise with a grandmaster zerg friend, then some standard macro game practise with a terran grandmaster from my SEA clan.
Overall record was 9-2!!!! Much happier with my performance today so i should be able to get a good nights sleep unlike last night.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Im european and haven't had a stable job in a year. Wich is kind of sad because before that I lived a few years in Norway and earned more money per month then many lawyers here do. But more starcraft time.
But europe has old buildings, good looking women and very loose sexual morals so f-u!
And, we have castles. REAL castles, not plastic ones that kids puke in.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Played a couple of custom games on NA just now to mess around. Ran into two platinum Protosses who tried to forge fast expand. In a PvP. Two warp prism 4gates showed them the error of their ways.
It's cool to decide if you think he's a dick, but do try to see this from a player's perspective. More than in almost any other venue, players in a competitive sport can be truly assumed to be making decisions that optimize their outcome. The way this tournament was structured, Naniwa's current optimal outcome was to go home, and he arranged that as fast as possible.
As an organizer if you want a player to try hard, you have to make sure that is the only way to get an optimal outcome. It's not asking a player to be professional, it's asking him to do his job for NO MONEY. This is no different than what happened with the NBA and NFL negotiations where the players said, "No. Playing this game, awesome as it is, doesn't mean we're willing to let you take an unfair share of the money." If the tournament organizers want this game to be meaningful, they have two options to do it:
1. Non-incentivized - move the important matchups to the beginning of the tourney, or to the last matchup where they are guaranteed to be relevant. All they had to do to make Naniwa play a real game was have him play Nestea 3rd instead of 4th. If they aren't willing to jack up their schedule to make a showcase game relevant, then they need to redefine what they consider a showcase game.
2. Incentivized - pay the players for individual performance wins, especially in a short-format invitational!
Now, that being said, I know it's hard to appreciate this coming fron Naniwa as opposed to any other player, and if he signed a contract saying "I will play X games at your tourney, including a show match vs. Nestea", he's an idiot. However, he probably just accepted an invitation to play in a tournament, nothing more.
It does come down to giving the fans what they want, but that's the tournament organizer's job, not the player's. The only relevant question I haven't addressed is if there was enough external incentive applied (i.e. salary, previous contracts, future rankings, future endorsments) that he might have tanked. While all those things should probably have affected Naniwa's decision, it's irrelevant because it would never have even come up if the tournament organizers had done a better job.
Dropping Loads on
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
i don't have an opinion either way on this particular issue, but you never see a professional football/basketball/baseball/hockey/soccer team just not field a team for the last quarter/quarter/inning/period/x number of minutes when faced with an insurmountable lead. or not show up to play when they're 0-13 on the season (see: indianapolis colts). of course, we could argue about whether or not these are fair comparisons for me to draw.
Actually Griswold, you see teams show up for the field, but they remove all their star players to prevent injuries, thus effectively throwing the game before it begins and denying the spectators the chance to see those players, even after they paid hundreds of dollars for tickets. They might "go through the motions", but everyone knows they've lost before they take the field. Even more, winning teams do it as well as losing teams, as they have to be concerned about the playoffs. The colts notoriously did this when they had a 13-0 season in order to rest Peyton Manning, instead of going for a perfect season. Remember, Naniwa actually did show up and take his seat and click buttons, he just chose to throw the game away in a slightly different way than another player might have done it.
Dropping Loads on
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
My main point is that sporting competitors tend to be rational actors. If you think one of their actions is irrational, try to see what they are getting out of making that decision. As a coach, try to help that player overcome their irrationality (see IdrA). As a tournament organizer, find a way to counteract that at a functional level rather than berating the player after the fact.
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
I thought that the 'ppp' thing was used as a scandalous opportunity to advance a more popular player through the tournament rather than just punish the offending player. It's been a while since I read the details though.
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Naniwa played a game yesterday that is not professional. I have heard that he threw away the game because it doesn't benefit himself. I want to lecture him. Pro-gamer as an occupation is not a job where you just play games between other pro players. Corporations sponsor us because the existence of fans make e-sports a product that we are trying to create. But I believe the behaviour from Naniwa yesterday was such a behaviour that betrayed and looked down on the fans. I hope he thinks about what he did and do not play a game like that again.
Players shouldn't behave like Naniwa did. Tournaments and fans don't have to tolerate it. Happy GOM is stepping up to the plate and drawing the boundaries of player conduct.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
This is good! They should have those things clearly defined in player contracts. Making "play nice" be an explicit requirement instead of just implying it is a really good idea for the international community.
Sceptre: Penny Arcade, where you get starcraft AND marriage advice.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
Zerg are the most difficult race to play against: y/n
y y y. I never have any clue how much stuff a zerg has. Sometimes I show up with a deathball and wreck their 8 hydra defense, other times they have 1000 roaches attacking at me as if I was Australian.
Players shouldn't behave like Naniwa did. Tournaments and fans don't have to tolerate it. Happy GOM is stepping up to the plate and drawing the boundaries of player conduct.
GOM should blackball Stephano, Brat_OK, Nestea (?), etc. then.
Players shouldn't behave like Naniwa did. Tournaments and fans don't have to tolerate it. Happy GOM is stepping up to the plate and drawing the boundaries of player conduct.
GOM should blackball Stephano, Brat_OK, Nestea (?), etc. then.
The difference is they actually played their games and tried to maintain a sense of professionalism about it even though they were throwaways. Naniwa didn't and was punished appropriately.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Posts
inorite
At least I have an hour in the morning before school where I'm bored out of my mind and I can catch up with what people say.
We let the convict aussies babble back and forth with our couple Western representatives for a few pages for our amusement while we have our morning coffee/cereal. Think of them like the newspaper comics.
No need to soil your hands by interacting directly with the likes of the upside-down people.
Not really.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
And the only reason i'm able to stay so active here is that i have all afternoon and evening to post, and i can visit the forums at work periodically to maek
In other news, I had a much better day of ladder today, hooray!!! Went 3-0 on ladder itself, then did some 6pool practise with a grandmaster zerg friend, then some standard macro game practise with a terran grandmaster from my SEA clan.
Overall record was 9-2!!!! Much happier with my performance today so i should be able to get a good nights sleep unlike last night.
Yes, this! Inquiring minds wish to know!!
like any europeans have jobs
oh man
that's so wrong
^_^'
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
europeans work like
But europe has old buildings, good looking women and very loose sexual morals so f-u!
And, we have castles. REAL castles, not plastic ones that kids puke in.
It's cool to decide if you think he's a dick, but do try to see this from a player's perspective. More than in almost any other venue, players in a competitive sport can be truly assumed to be making decisions that optimize their outcome. The way this tournament was structured, Naniwa's current optimal outcome was to go home, and he arranged that as fast as possible.
As an organizer if you want a player to try hard, you have to make sure that is the only way to get an optimal outcome. It's not asking a player to be professional, it's asking him to do his job for NO MONEY. This is no different than what happened with the NBA and NFL negotiations where the players said, "No. Playing this game, awesome as it is, doesn't mean we're willing to let you take an unfair share of the money." If the tournament organizers want this game to be meaningful, they have two options to do it:
1. Non-incentivized - move the important matchups to the beginning of the tourney, or to the last matchup where they are guaranteed to be relevant. All they had to do to make Naniwa play a real game was have him play Nestea 3rd instead of 4th. If they aren't willing to jack up their schedule to make a showcase game relevant, then they need to redefine what they consider a showcase game.
2. Incentivized - pay the players for individual performance wins, especially in a short-format invitational!
Now, that being said, I know it's hard to appreciate this coming fron Naniwa as opposed to any other player, and if he signed a contract saying "I will play X games at your tourney, including a show match vs. Nestea", he's an idiot. However, he probably just accepted an invitation to play in a tournament, nothing more.
It does come down to giving the fans what they want, but that's the tournament organizer's job, not the player's. The only relevant question I haven't addressed is if there was enough external incentive applied (i.e. salary, previous contracts, future rankings, future endorsments) that he might have tanked. While all those things should probably have affected Naniwa's decision, it's irrelevant because it would never have even come up if the tournament organizers had done a better job.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
i don't have an opinion either way on this particular issue, but you never see a professional football/basketball/baseball/hockey/soccer team just not field a team for the last quarter/quarter/inning/period/x number of minutes when faced with an insurmountable lead. or not show up to play when they're 0-13 on the season (see: indianapolis colts). of course, we could argue about whether or not these are fair comparisons for me to draw.
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
can't get away from the naniwa discussion
B.net: Kusanku
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
so how about this Stars Craft? fun game, right?
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
He's Bronze Toss? That's my specialty!
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
Caspa?
Ke$ha?
Vespa?
Path of Exile: snowcrash7
MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
Players shouldn't behave like Naniwa did. Tournaments and fans don't have to tolerate it. Happy GOM is stepping up to the plate and drawing the boundaries of player conduct.
8->
(posting seed sounds dirty)
Pro dancing was his old life too.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
IN KOREA; DANCING BRINGS SHAME ON YOUR FAMILY! NO ONE WANTS TO MARRY HIM NOW!
Steam: adamjnet
y y y. I never have any clue how much stuff a zerg has. Sometimes I show up with a deathball and wreck their 8 hydra defense, other times they have 1000 roaches attacking at me as if I was Australian.
The difference is they actually played their games and tried to maintain a sense of professionalism about it even though they were throwaways. Naniwa didn't and was punished appropriately.