eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
If there was an unbeatable, no skill way to kill anyone at any time it would've been patched out of the game already. Release LeBlanc pretty much did this and they hot fixed her the same day.
If you're dying, you either made a mistake or are being outplayed.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I try to learn from every death, and part of that is analyzing how and why I died. In this case, the how and why turned out to be I was less than X distance from the enemy. Could I have reacted to what they did... let's play back through the events. I was laning, was about 1400 away from my opponent. Was well outside either of our spell ranges, and wasn't even moving in to get a last hit. I would have flashed when they did... except I was already CC at that point. Then they ignited me. No way I'm going to win the fight at this point... so I should try and not give them a kill. Except I am also ignited.
The events go way beyond the moment where he flashed, Q'd, and Ignited you. The events start before the point where you were low enough that he could do this to you without fear of the damage you would put out. The events start when you get to your lane and start eating his harass without giving him enough harass back that he is afraid of you.
You were losing your lane. You might not have thought you were losing your lane but you were, and you did not recognize it. Him flashing+igniting you is only what killed you in the most literal sense, but the circumstances that brought you to the moment where he was capable of doing that is what you need to look at. Hell, it goes all the way back to the runes and masteries and summoner spells you chose before the game even started. It goes to the items you bought at the start of the match, it goes to the exchanges you had at levels 1+, it goes to when he B'd and when you B'd if at all.
You are fixated on "He flashed and silenced me. This meant that I could not do anything." without asking why he was capable of doing that in the first place.
Can't use summoner spells when you are silenced, unless cleanse is unique in that regard. If it works when silenced/stunned, then it makes a good specific counter pick. In that it is a counter pick, and shouldn't be required just to have any hope of laning.
It works while silenced, it would be incredibly useless if you couldn't use it will CC'd
While you are playing Ryze, Lux, Morg, etc: are you constantly harassing your opponent and keeping them low? If you're not you are playing the champions wrong, do this and, hey guess what they can't flash Ult you because you can kill them.
If you are running teleport you are using defensive summoners so you have to play defensively. Back earlier than normal and TP back, congratulations you can now survive their combo.
Flash+Ignite is pretty easily the best summoner option for AP mid, using it doesn't defeat the purpose of competition it just means you have recognized the most powerful combination and are using it.
I'll have to counter pick cleanse then. Not that it is a total solution, but it will help. Also, forcing them out of lane doesn't solve the problem. If you had read what I said, often I am up creep score on these people and get them out of lane by harassing them. It doesn't stop them from coming back and doing it at some point. That's like saying a 1-hit is win combo in a fighting game isn't broken because you can perfect the opponent. Also, teleporting back doesn't magically give me more hit points. Not unless I buy specifically to survive their attack. Once again, this in no way stops them or punishes their bad play. It simple helps you endure without feeding. Which happens to NOT be winning.
To make another analogy, headshot mods in shooters doesn't defeat the purpose of competition? You either have to be a perfect player, or run the same cheese the other guy is. If you can't run that cheese, you shouldn't be punished for it.
To make another analogy, headshot mods in shooters doesn't defeat the purpose of competition? You either have to be a perfect player, or run the same cheese the other guy is. If you can't run that cheese, you shouldn't be punished for it.
yes, a player downloading an illegal cheating device is totally comparable to a dude going back to his fountain and healing then coming back and punishing you because he now has more health/mana than you
So I've figured out how to play melee without dying constantly. Now I just need to figure out how to actually get last hits while not dying constantly.
How do you actually get last hits while not dying constantly?
I try to learn from every death, and part of that is analyzing how and why I died. In this case, the how and why turned out to be I was less than X distance from the enemy. Could I have reacted to what they did... let's play back through the events. I was laning, was about 1400 away from my opponent. Was well outside either of our spell ranges, and wasn't even moving in to get a last hit. I would have flashed when they did... except I was already CC at that point. Then they ignited me. No way I'm going to win the fight at this point... so I should try and not give them a kill. Except I am also ignited.
The events go way beyond the moment where he flashed, Q'd, and Ignited you. The events start before the point where you were low enough that he could do this to you without fear of the damage you would put out. The events start when you get to your lane and start eating his harass without giving him enough harass back that he is afraid of you.
You were losing your lane. You might not have thought you were losing your lane but you were, and you did not recognize it. Him flashing+igniting you is only what killed you in the most literal sense, but the circumstances that brought you to the moment where he was capable of doing that is what you need to look at. Hell, it goes all the way back to the runes and masteries and summoner spells you chose before the game even started. It goes to the items you bought at the start of the match, it goes to the exchanges you had at levels 1+, it goes to when he B'd and when you B'd if at all.
You are fixated on "He flashed and silenced me. This meant that I could not do anything." without asking why he was capable of doing that in the first place.
You are fixated on not reading what I type. I do not think I am winning the lane. My opponent has less than full health. I have full health. I am not hurting for mana. I am not pushing out. I have a higher creep score. Look at mage health at level four. Look at how much damage is being done. If you want to discuss the matter, try paying any attention in the slightest.
So I've figured out how to play melee without dying constantly. Now I just need to figure out how to actually get last hits while not dying constantly.
How do you actually get last hits while not dying constantly?
be able to sustain
buy some health regen items, some pots, or have a skill that lifesteals or restores health or w/e
as melee laning vs. ranged, you're pretty much always going to take harass damage, so you either have to make it a bad trade for them to do so, or sustain enough to not give a fuck
If your laning opponent is able to 100-0 you in one flash/ignite combo, there is a problem. No character in the game can do that reliably at level 4 if you're building/runing correctly.
In general, you want MR blues when you're solo mid, and it's worth going back for an early Doran's against bursty casters like Annie and Kassadin. This will allow you to, at the very least, survive the engagement and at best kill the other player when they commit to a fight.
What champs are hard counters to Cait? Tempted to pick one up, just for the pleasure of shitting on her over and over during her free weeks. And by that I mean every other week.
The counter in lane to Caitlyn is another Caitlyn, but played better.
Seriously though, I wouldn't say that there's a very specific counter to Caitlyn as a champ, but it would depend on where you see them.
If you are in a traditional Euro-Lane vs. Caitlyn and support, then try playing either a support champion with effective CC (Taric, Blitzcrank, Alistar and maybe Leona come to mind), or a high-damage carry that can benefit from jungler ganks or the aforementioned CC (I am thinking of Vayne and Graves--maybe Sivir too). Carries that won't necessarily 'beat' Caitlyn but will be able to stay far away enough to farm relatively safely would be Ashe, Kog'Maw, Corki, and Ezreal. If you feel like screwing the meta, then Urgot might not be a bad choice: put him with a high-damage champ and try and turn your lane into a kill-lane.
If you are in mid versus a Caitlyn then you should play a long-range, CC-heavy champ that can outlast her (Annie, Brand, Kennen, Morganna and Lux all fit this category). I feel like a mid Caitlyn's biggest weakness is her low mana pool. I would play conservatively at first, worrying about last hits and dodging her harass while poking her a bit throughout laning. Sooner or later she will either be out of mana, or need to back to get more. If she stays without mana, then she has no escape and you can move in to try a kill. If she leaves, then farm up, get to level 6 first, and hurt her when you do. Alternatively play Leblanc and kill Caitlyn a lot by being yourself.
A Solo-top Caitlyn is not that common, but if you are having problems with one, then you want to pick champions that have either ranged harass or sustain (Yorick, Cho'Gath, Gangplank and Lee Sin have both). Your goal in this lane is to out-harass her, but it will probably be pretty hard without some occasional ganks from your jungler. I would keep in mind that you likely have a better way to regain health than her, so work to poke her down and harass her away from minions kills, while doing what you can to stay at a healthy level of hp. Kills may be unlikely, as she will probably escape you without good CC, but if you make her back often, then you have succeeded.
If you are facing Caitlyn in a non-traditional duo-lane, then your best bets are always ranged harass and CC. Depending on who she lanes with, it may be a better idea to kill her lanemate first. Caitlyn is very good at taking advantage of CC'ed champions, so keep mindful of where she and her lanemate are and what they can do. Be wary of Junglers.
A situation involving a good jungler (Lee Sin, Udyr, Skarner, and Volibear) versus an over-extended Caitlyn will usually end well for the jungler.
General advice against Caitlyn:
--Her Q takes a very long time to shoot, so try and predict and dodge it. Buying early boots will help with this. Also, try standing away from your minion wave, then she has to choose between harass and farm; if you can dodge a Q aimed away from minions, then she has just wasted a lot of mana.
--A smart/dickish Caitlyn will predict when you are going to attack and place a snare trap directly behind you. Be prepared to walk around them instead of straight back.
--Caitlyn's passive procs twice as often in the brush. Keep her out of that brush! An early ward so that you can harass her while she's hiding might not be a bad investment.
What champs are hard counters to Cait? Tempted to pick one up, just for the pleasure of shitting on her over and over during her free weeks. And by that I mean every other week.
i would like to know this too.
i have had some success with Morgana against Cait. You can actually stop her from pushing your tower in at will.
If your laning opponent is able to 100-0 you in one flash/ignite combo, there is a problem. No character in the game can do that reliably at level 4 if you're building/runing correctly.
In general, you want MR blues when you're solo mid, and it's worth going back for an early Doran's against bursty casters like Annie and Kassadin. This will allow you to, at the very least, survive the engagement and at best kill the other player when they commit to a fight.
Who are you playing mid, btw? Most mids are squishy, but most mids also have burst that allows them to react to that sort of play.
Normally I run mid as Lux, when I am playing her and we don't have another ranged ap to do it. Her kit doesn't have a lot of close range punish, so it's a bad match for her to be caught without any chance to react. If they telegraph it in some way, I have been able to shield myself to absorb some of the damage. That paired with her snare and flash normally let's me get away, but best case scenario I still need to recall after taking 1-2 abilities and an ignite. Worst case scenario, that combo can indeed kill a squishy caster with an auto-attack or two. A lot of these players also seem to rune themselves for the absolute highest early burst.
My main gripe about it, is that there isn't really a HARD counter short of doing the same thing, or some variant of. You're not going to win a fight against a bursty mage when they land the first shot, CC, and ignite.
0
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
Graves and a well complimented Vayne can hold their own against Caitlyn.
Or you can go against the meta and set up a kill comp at bottom such as the olden days of Garen/Xin/Sion/etc.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Nah, I don't run programs like that. Had to replace my motherboard and ram just to be playing the game again.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
So I've figured out how to play melee without dying constantly. Now I just need to figure out how to actually get last hits while not dying constantly.
How do you actually get last hits while not dying constantly?
normally it means shanking whoever is in your lane and buying cloth + 5 pots
if its another melee its a farmoff where the better 1v1er wins
if its a ranged nerd then you have to assess de situayshun
if youre lee sin or riven you just KEEL DEM
if youre irelia you just farm like a nerd and occasionally harass them by doing double jumps with q on dying minions and then sponk them
if youre tryndamere you just slap them and heal its k
like, why? could you give some reasoning as to why lux is a good mid except for fun factor? I hate to spoil my biased setup here, but if you say it's just for fun and the hope that the enemy team doesn't have a skilled player in mid/top-tier mid pick you sort of lose out on any real ability to complain. while I don't mean to say that lux mid is a complete impossibility, it's an uphill battle in almost every case.
you're baffled by people playing AP mid the way it's supposed to be played (why wouldn't popular ap mids rune for burst?) and you call it lame when your lousy pick gets...well, picked on. it's really obnoxious, to be honest with you.
to actually masquerade as a productive poster, the only way you can play lux in mid in my experience is very defensively. play like you're threatened all the time and just toss e when you can, because lux is so limp-noodle without a full level 6 combo that you probably will be if people decide to take advantage of her.
Torgairon on
0
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
edited December 2011
I've been told that Irelia now loses to damn near everybody at top 1v1. I haven't seen an Irelia do well at top in awhile.
Lux is also somewhat unreliable in that all of her abilities are dodgeable. Want someone who wont die to Kassadin at mid? Play Morgana and pool farm + push. Buy some HP and/or MR such as Catalyst or an early Negatron Cloak.
eeSanG on
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I've been told that Irelia now loses to damn near everybody at top 1v1. I haven't seen an Irelia do well at top in awhile.
Lux is also somewhat unreliable in that all of her abilities are dodgeable. Want someone who wont die to Kassadin at mid? Play Morgana and pool farm + push. Buy some HP and/or MR such as Catalyst or an early Negatron Cloak.
I would say Irelia beats GP, Nasus, and Singed pretty easily, you just need to rush MR/Armor.
to actually masquerade as a productive poster, the only way you can play lux in mid in my experience is very defensively. play like you're threatened all the time and just toss e when you can, because lux is so limp-noodle without a full level 6 combo that you probably will be if people decide to take advantage of her.
I second this part. In my limited experience, the only reason you ever stand in place as Lux is to bait or pop a double mark (or, technically, to fire lasers). Fun to play? Absolutely. Good for nerves? Nope.avi
like, why? could you give some reasoning as to why lux is a good mid except for fun factor? I hate to spoil my biased setup here, but if you say it's just for fun and the hope that the enemy team doesn't have a skilled player in mid/top-tier mid pick you sort of lose out on any real ability to complain. while I don't mean to say that lux mid is a complete impossibility, it's an uphill battle in almost every case.
you're baffled by people playing AP mid the way it's supposed to be played (why wouldn't popular ap mids rune for burst?) and you call it lame when your lousy pick gets...well, picked on. it's really obnoxious, to be honest with you.
to actually masquerade as a productive poster, the only way you can play lux in mid in my experience is very defensively. play like you're threatened all the time, because lux is so limp-noodle without a full level 6 combo that you probably will be.
Yup, figured I'd hear this. I win middle lane all the time with Lux. Her E is great harass, and her snare normally keeps people out. Even a flash + ability combo isn't that bad, as I have commented on in the past. It's the flash + ability with CC + ignite that really... burns.
It really varies by the match up though. High burst lower range champs like Kassadin and Annie you want to zone out and punish with snare if they try to get in... while keeping distance. You can punish enough to force them out of lane, or you can secure the kill with laser. Other champions like Morganna or Mal it's more about not losing farm. Her E is weaker than their tools, so you have to make use of her passive. Without falling prey to something like a snare. Thankfully it's pretty easy to keep clear of Morganna's q, and if she's pushing with her aoe you don't have to worry about the follow up so much if you do. You will want to keep your distance from Mal so if he tries something like Flash + R you can at the very least get her shield off and get closer to turret.
I don't masquerade as a productive poster. I bring things up I feel like giving proper discussion. I also give good reasoning behind what I say. Often times, the reply is something along the lines of 'Lux is bad.' or 'Learn to counter the thing without a hard counter.' and needless to say that results in some back and forth. Not because I am some kind of negative influence, but rather I try to get a debate out of people actively ignoring any point I make. On one hand, I shouldn't waste my time responding to people who have made up their mind to be close minded. On the other hand, these forums are where i go for discourse, and I would rather have this than go somewhere else just for some open minded discussion on a game I play.
to actually masquerade as a productive poster, the only way you can play lux in mid in my experience is very defensively. play like you're threatened all the time and just toss e when you can, because lux is so limp-noodle without a full level 6 combo that you probably will be if people decide to take advantage of her.
I second this part. In my limited experience, the only reason you ever stand in place as Lux is to bait or pop a double mark (or, technically, to fire lasers). Fun to play? Absolutely. Good for nerves? Nope.avi
I try not to weigh my experience with Lux against other people anymore. My experience tends to be a lot more pleasant. Hopefully she gets a nice buff like Riot has hinted at and we can all consider her god tier.
Here I am making comprehension errors as well. That's bound to help things. ;_;
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I think I need to start playing more draft, so I can get used to bans, counterpicks, dealing with counterpicks, etc.
I am also tempted by Jungle Amumu - he seems to work pretty well with the way the current jungle works, as long as he gets blue. Are his ganks on the order of Warwick's though, and only decent when his ult is up? I figured that ganking mid with Bandage Toss and his magic-resistance debuffing headbutts would be pretty good, given that most mids have some form of CC to go with their burst.
I also need to give Jungle Riven and Jungle Skarner some more time. I've tried both, and I'm just not that great with them. I'm going to put it down to unfamiliarity with jungling techniques, though.
As for countering Caitlyn, I've had pretty good results laning with Leona, thanks to her chain-stuns, but it takes a really good Leona. And your early game will be pretty bad, because Leona doesn't have great numbers, and her early game is pretty terrible. She's kinda squishy for a tank unless you get some assist gold for defensive items, or maxed Eclipse, and with her early game not being so great... Just play defensively until Leona has her combo in full, farm up your AD Carry, let them push on the tower then crush Cait with a chain stun and some insane damage. Bonus points if she puts a cupcake trap near the tower, and you can step on it to get the tower in on the action, too. Woo!
Also. Kennen loses hard to Veigar. Kennen has a lot of trouble with Kat. If you have a Cho solo-top, even 2v1 if they lack a jungler, and Kennen vs Kat mid, for god's sake, let Kennen and Cho switch. Pleeeeeease.
Yeah, I can see how you'd have problems with blinks as Lux, since they're pretty much her bane. I'd say that's a fairly specific problem to the character you're playing though - Lux is both extra squishy and reliant on range to survive in a way that other solo mid champs simply aren't. Lux vs. Kassadin in particular sounds like a matchup that Lux can't possibly win once she hits 6.
All I can really recommend is a couple early Doran rings to try to survive the flash/burst combos. If you know you're going against bursty champs it can be worth running Teleport to make it easier to go back for them. Lux is an unconventional mid pretty much for this reason. Anyone who can close the gap can punish her very hard.
i dunno, i think kennen would hold up well against kat
maybe if she gets really lucky with Q bounces she can harass him out of lane, but she certainly isn't going to win any trades and his ult renders hers completely worthless
I think I need to start playing more draft, so I can get used to bans, counterpicks, dealing with counterpicks, etc.
I am also tempted by Jungle Amumu - he seems to work pretty well with the way the current jungle works, as long as he gets blue. Are his ganks on the order of Warwick's though, and only decent when his ult is up? I figured that ganking mid with Bandage Toss and his magic-resistance debuffing headbutts would be pretty good, given that most mids have some form of CC to go with their burst.
Once you get used to draft, you'll never play blind pick. Getting rid of your three most hated champions is the best feeling.
And I don't really like the jungle Amumu, he is so blue reliant that if you can counter him early, it's almost gg.
Leona is a pretty tricky character to play before she get's gear. Her kit is fantastic, but you need good timing and a good lane partner. I tend to run Leona very close to zero creep score in the laning phase. I like to start with a health potion and a regeneration amulet as a pre-req for philo stone. Then grab up a golden heart(?) and move on to merc treads. I tend to run exhaust and teleport on her. Let's me head back more, and exhaust is great for getting her safely out after she goes in on the enemy or securing a kill.
If you should know one thing about draft, it's that Amumu gets banned a lot. If he isn't banned it's a surprise.
Edit: I get what you're saying Squid, but it's not all about Lux. Flash + CC + Ignite is pretty hard to deal with period. I will definitely be running cleanse more in the future. I actually do fine versus blink alone. I can deal with it. It's the other two things in the equation that bother me.
Daris on
0
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
i dunno, i think kennen would hold up well against kat
maybe if she gets really lucky with Q bounces she can harass him out of lane, but she certainly isn't going to win any trades and his ult renders hers completely worthless
Welp. She had a full AP/Magpen Rune page (something obscene like 60-70AP at level 1), and would shunpo -> blade repeatedly whenever I came in to last-hit with shurikens. Or flash->shunpo->blade, which just did soooo much damage. She'd only shunpo in to ult when I was on around 50% health (which I tried to limit by basing if I took some harass), and I could only counter her ult with a three-hit combo that I could never get off in time.
So she won trades, only ulted if I couldn't stun her in time, and it was horrific.
She had an early Revolver, but so did I, and I was harassing her every time she came in to last hit, but not all my harass landed because skillshots versus targetted. Maybe I was just bad.
My point was that Cho would have had a much, much easier time of it than Kennen. Two ways to deal with her ult, a pretty much guaranteed combo if she shunpos in (silence->knockup) and inbuilt sustain where I needed an item.
I dunno.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I've been told that Irelia now loses to damn near everybody at top 1v1. I haven't seen an Irelia do well at top in awhile.
irelia played badly loses to a lot top
irelia played well can still beat almost everything, it just requires a bit of pewpew
0
TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
Irelia has to outfarm and not die for a very very long time
much patience required. Have some warm cider and play some tunes while you last hit with Q for 20 minutes. also learn to tell yourself that knowing you would die if you engaged 1v1 is not losing your lane. Whenever someone jumps on Irelia she can stun and lifesteal off the stunned champ AND the whole minion wave with ult while troll face is fully active.
I've been told that Irelia now loses to damn near everybody at top 1v1. I haven't seen an Irelia do well at top in awhile.
Lux is also somewhat unreliable in that all of her abilities are dodgeable. Want someone who wont die to Kassadin at mid? Play Morgana and pool farm + push. Buy some HP and/or MR such as Catalyst or an early Negatron Cloak.
I would say Irelia beats GP, Nasus, and Singed pretty easily, you just need to rush MR/Armor.
Nasus destroys Irelia, he will outsustain her later and can win trades with just Q. He has a rough start that is easily mitigated by armor 5
League of Legends: Studio
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
Did their entire server cluster just die? Platform status is 'undefined', and their website, for any continent, won't load.
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
My main gripe about it, is that there isn't really a HARD counter short of doing the same thing, or some variant of. You're not going to win a fight against a bursty mage when they land the first shot, CC, and ignite.
Yes there is.
Cleanse.
Not only will Cleanse wipe the CC but it will also wipe the Ignite.
And now that the Summoner talents are t1, you can always have Cleanse upgraded (which is what makes new Cleanse amazing).
New Cleanse is going to be a new standard for mid-laners if people are at all sensible.
My main gripe about it, is that there isn't really a HARD counter short of doing the same thing, or some variant of. You're not going to win a fight against a bursty mage when they land the first shot, CC, and ignite.
You can win that if you also have burst, CC and Ignite. It's why Brand vs Xerath nuke-ups are so epic.
Earlier today one of our Ambassadors mentioned that Pulsefire Ezreal would not be a Legendary skin. Unknown to them were the secret plans of our amazing Skins team, who just recently decided to make some changes to Pulsefire Ezreal … for the better!
We had originally intended to release this skin this month, but during a brainstorming meeting with our artists, we decided that there Pulsefire Ezreal was such a great idea that we should take things a step further and fully develop him as a Legendary skin. However, that means Pulsefire Ezreal needs more time to create than a regular Epic skin.
We know that Ezreal fans have eagerly wanted a skin of legendary quality for some time, and even though he won’t be available for a bit, he will feature new sound effects and voice overs in addition to other goodies. We’re sure he’ll be worth the wait!
Pulsefire Power!
Also, Looks like Veigar is getting "playability changes" next patch.
Posts
If you're dying, you either made a mistake or are being outplayed.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
The events go way beyond the moment where he flashed, Q'd, and Ignited you. The events start before the point where you were low enough that he could do this to you without fear of the damage you would put out. The events start when you get to your lane and start eating his harass without giving him enough harass back that he is afraid of you.
You were losing your lane. You might not have thought you were losing your lane but you were, and you did not recognize it. Him flashing+igniting you is only what killed you in the most literal sense, but the circumstances that brought you to the moment where he was capable of doing that is what you need to look at. Hell, it goes all the way back to the runes and masteries and summoner spells you chose before the game even started. It goes to the items you bought at the start of the match, it goes to the exchanges you had at levels 1+, it goes to when he B'd and when you B'd if at all.
You are fixated on "He flashed and silenced me. This meant that I could not do anything." without asking why he was capable of doing that in the first place.
I'll have to counter pick cleanse then. Not that it is a total solution, but it will help. Also, forcing them out of lane doesn't solve the problem. If you had read what I said, often I am up creep score on these people and get them out of lane by harassing them. It doesn't stop them from coming back and doing it at some point. That's like saying a 1-hit is win combo in a fighting game isn't broken because you can perfect the opponent. Also, teleporting back doesn't magically give me more hit points. Not unless I buy specifically to survive their attack. Once again, this in no way stops them or punishes their bad play. It simple helps you endure without feeding. Which happens to NOT be winning.
To make another analogy, headshot mods in shooters doesn't defeat the purpose of competition? You either have to be a perfect player, or run the same cheese the other guy is. If you can't run that cheese, you shouldn't be punished for it.
yes, a player downloading an illegal cheating device is totally comparable to a dude going back to his fountain and healing then coming back and punishing you because he now has more health/mana than you
How do you actually get last hits while not dying constantly?
You are fixated on not reading what I type. I do not think I am winning the lane. My opponent has less than full health. I have full health. I am not hurting for mana. I am not pushing out. I have a higher creep score. Look at mage health at level four. Look at how much damage is being done. If you want to discuss the matter, try paying any attention in the slightest.
be able to sustain
buy some health regen items, some pots, or have a skill that lifesteals or restores health or w/e
as melee laning vs. ranged, you're pretty much always going to take harass damage, so you either have to make it a bad trade for them to do so, or sustain enough to not give a fuck
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
In general, you want MR blues when you're solo mid, and it's worth going back for an early Doran's against bursty casters like Annie and Kassadin. This will allow you to, at the very least, survive the engagement and at best kill the other player when they commit to a fight.
Who are you playing mid, btw?
The counter in lane to Caitlyn is another Caitlyn, but played better.
Seriously though, I wouldn't say that there's a very specific counter to Caitlyn as a champ, but it would depend on where you see them.
If you are in a traditional Euro-Lane vs. Caitlyn and support, then try playing either a support champion with effective CC (Taric, Blitzcrank, Alistar and maybe Leona come to mind), or a high-damage carry that can benefit from jungler ganks or the aforementioned CC (I am thinking of Vayne and Graves--maybe Sivir too). Carries that won't necessarily 'beat' Caitlyn but will be able to stay far away enough to farm relatively safely would be Ashe, Kog'Maw, Corki, and Ezreal. If you feel like screwing the meta, then Urgot might not be a bad choice: put him with a high-damage champ and try and turn your lane into a kill-lane.
If you are in mid versus a Caitlyn then you should play a long-range, CC-heavy champ that can outlast her (Annie, Brand, Kennen, Morganna and Lux all fit this category). I feel like a mid Caitlyn's biggest weakness is her low mana pool. I would play conservatively at first, worrying about last hits and dodging her harass while poking her a bit throughout laning. Sooner or later she will either be out of mana, or need to back to get more. If she stays without mana, then she has no escape and you can move in to try a kill. If she leaves, then farm up, get to level 6 first, and hurt her when you do. Alternatively play Leblanc and kill Caitlyn a lot by being yourself.
A Solo-top Caitlyn is not that common, but if you are having problems with one, then you want to pick champions that have either ranged harass or sustain (Yorick, Cho'Gath, Gangplank and Lee Sin have both). Your goal in this lane is to out-harass her, but it will probably be pretty hard without some occasional ganks from your jungler. I would keep in mind that you likely have a better way to regain health than her, so work to poke her down and harass her away from minions kills, while doing what you can to stay at a healthy level of hp. Kills may be unlikely, as she will probably escape you without good CC, but if you make her back often, then you have succeeded.
If you are facing Caitlyn in a non-traditional duo-lane, then your best bets are always ranged harass and CC. Depending on who she lanes with, it may be a better idea to kill her lanemate first. Caitlyn is very good at taking advantage of CC'ed champions, so keep mindful of where she and her lanemate are and what they can do. Be wary of Junglers.
A situation involving a good jungler (Lee Sin, Udyr, Skarner, and Volibear) versus an over-extended Caitlyn will usually end well for the jungler.
General advice against Caitlyn:
--Her Q takes a very long time to shoot, so try and predict and dodge it. Buying early boots will help with this. Also, try standing away from your minion wave, then she has to choose between harass and farm; if you can dodge a Q aimed away from minions, then she has just wasted a lot of mana.
--A smart/dickish Caitlyn will predict when you are going to attack and place a snare trap directly behind you. Be prepared to walk around them instead of straight back.
--Caitlyn's passive procs twice as often in the brush. Keep her out of that brush! An early ward so that you can harass her while she's hiding might not be a bad investment.
Soraka for aggressive, Taric for safe.
Normally I run mid as Lux, when I am playing her and we don't have another ranged ap to do it. Her kit doesn't have a lot of close range punish, so it's a bad match for her to be caught without any chance to react. If they telegraph it in some way, I have been able to shield myself to absorb some of the damage. That paired with her snare and flash normally let's me get away, but best case scenario I still need to recall after taking 1-2 abilities and an ignite. Worst case scenario, that combo can indeed kill a squishy caster with an auto-attack or two. A lot of these players also seem to rune themselves for the absolute highest early burst.
My main gripe about it, is that there isn't really a HARD counter short of doing the same thing, or some variant of. You're not going to win a fight against a bursty mage when they land the first shot, CC, and ignite.
Or you can go against the meta and set up a kill comp at bottom such as the olden days of Garen/Xin/Sion/etc.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Nah, I don't run programs like that. Had to replace my motherboard and ram just to be playing the game again.
normally it means shanking whoever is in your lane and buying cloth + 5 pots
if its another melee its a farmoff where the better 1v1er wins
if its a ranged nerd then you have to assess de situayshun
if youre lee sin or riven you just KEEL DEM
if youre irelia you just farm like a nerd and occasionally harass them by doing double jumps with q on dying minions and then sponk them
if youre tryndamere you just slap them and heal its k
like, why? could you give some reasoning as to why lux is a good mid except for fun factor? I hate to spoil my biased setup here, but if you say it's just for fun and the hope that the enemy team doesn't have a skilled player in mid/top-tier mid pick you sort of lose out on any real ability to complain. while I don't mean to say that lux mid is a complete impossibility, it's an uphill battle in almost every case.
you're baffled by people playing AP mid the way it's supposed to be played (why wouldn't popular ap mids rune for burst?) and you call it lame when your lousy pick gets...well, picked on. it's really obnoxious, to be honest with you.
to actually masquerade as a productive poster, the only way you can play lux in mid in my experience is very defensively. play like you're threatened all the time and just toss e when you can, because lux is so limp-noodle without a full level 6 combo that you probably will be if people decide to take advantage of her.
Lux is also somewhat unreliable in that all of her abilities are dodgeable. Want someone who wont die to Kassadin at mid? Play Morgana and pool farm + push. Buy some HP and/or MR such as Catalyst or an early Negatron Cloak.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I would say Irelia beats GP, Nasus, and Singed pretty easily, you just need to rush MR/Armor.
I second this part. In my limited experience, the only reason you ever stand in place as Lux is to bait or pop a double mark (or, technically, to fire lasers). Fun to play? Absolutely. Good for nerves? Nope.avi
Yup, figured I'd hear this. I win middle lane all the time with Lux. Her E is great harass, and her snare normally keeps people out. Even a flash + ability combo isn't that bad, as I have commented on in the past. It's the flash + ability with CC + ignite that really... burns.
It really varies by the match up though. High burst lower range champs like Kassadin and Annie you want to zone out and punish with snare if they try to get in... while keeping distance. You can punish enough to force them out of lane, or you can secure the kill with laser. Other champions like Morganna or Mal it's more about not losing farm. Her E is weaker than their tools, so you have to make use of her passive. Without falling prey to something like a snare. Thankfully it's pretty easy to keep clear of Morganna's q, and if she's pushing with her aoe you don't have to worry about the follow up so much if you do. You will want to keep your distance from Mal so if he tries something like Flash + R you can at the very least get her shield off and get closer to turret.
I don't masquerade as a productive poster. I bring things up I feel like giving proper discussion. I also give good reasoning behind what I say. Often times, the reply is something along the lines of 'Lux is bad.' or 'Learn to counter the thing without a hard counter.' and needless to say that results in some back and forth. Not because I am some kind of negative influence, but rather I try to get a debate out of people actively ignoring any point I make. On one hand, I shouldn't waste my time responding to people who have made up their mind to be close minded. On the other hand, these forums are where i go for discourse, and I would rather have this than go somewhere else just for some open minded discussion on a game I play.
I try not to weigh my experience with Lux against other people anymore. My experience tends to be a lot more pleasant. Hopefully she gets a nice buff like Riot has hinted at and we can all consider her god tier.
I am also tempted by Jungle Amumu - he seems to work pretty well with the way the current jungle works, as long as he gets blue. Are his ganks on the order of Warwick's though, and only decent when his ult is up? I figured that ganking mid with Bandage Toss and his magic-resistance debuffing headbutts would be pretty good, given that most mids have some form of CC to go with their burst.
I also need to give Jungle Riven and Jungle Skarner some more time. I've tried both, and I'm just not that great with them. I'm going to put it down to unfamiliarity with jungling techniques, though.
As for countering Caitlyn, I've had pretty good results laning with Leona, thanks to her chain-stuns, but it takes a really good Leona. And your early game will be pretty bad, because Leona doesn't have great numbers, and her early game is pretty terrible. She's kinda squishy for a tank unless you get some assist gold for defensive items, or maxed Eclipse, and with her early game not being so great... Just play defensively until Leona has her combo in full, farm up your AD Carry, let them push on the tower then crush Cait with a chain stun and some insane damage. Bonus points if she puts a cupcake trap near the tower, and you can step on it to get the tower in on the action, too. Woo!
Also. Kennen loses hard to Veigar. Kennen has a lot of trouble with Kat. If you have a Cho solo-top, even 2v1 if they lack a jungler, and Kennen vs Kat mid, for god's sake, let Kennen and Cho switch. Pleeeeeease.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
All I can really recommend is a couple early Doran rings to try to survive the flash/burst combos. If you know you're going against bursty champs it can be worth running Teleport to make it easier to go back for them. Lux is an unconventional mid pretty much for this reason. Anyone who can close the gap can punish her very hard.
maybe if she gets really lucky with Q bounces she can harass him out of lane, but she certainly isn't going to win any trades and his ult renders hers completely worthless
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
Once you get used to draft, you'll never play blind pick. Getting rid of your three most hated champions is the best feeling.
And I don't really like the jungle Amumu, he is so blue reliant that if you can counter him early, it's almost gg.
If you should know one thing about draft, it's that Amumu gets banned a lot. If he isn't banned it's a surprise.
Edit: I get what you're saying Squid, but it's not all about Lux. Flash + CC + Ignite is pretty hard to deal with period. I will definitely be running cleanse more in the future. I actually do fine versus blink alone. I can deal with it. It's the other two things in the equation that bother me.
Welp. She had a full AP/Magpen Rune page (something obscene like 60-70AP at level 1), and would shunpo -> blade repeatedly whenever I came in to last-hit with shurikens. Or flash->shunpo->blade, which just did soooo much damage. She'd only shunpo in to ult when I was on around 50% health (which I tried to limit by basing if I took some harass), and I could only counter her ult with a three-hit combo that I could never get off in time.
So she won trades, only ulted if I couldn't stun her in time, and it was horrific.
She had an early Revolver, but so did I, and I was harassing her every time she came in to last hit, but not all my harass landed because skillshots versus targetted. Maybe I was just bad.
My point was that Cho would have had a much, much easier time of it than Kennen. Two ways to deal with her ult, a pretty much guaranteed combo if she shunpos in (silence->knockup) and inbuilt sustain where I needed an item.
I dunno.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
irelia played badly loses to a lot top
irelia played well can still beat almost everything, it just requires a bit of pewpew
much patience required. Have some warm cider and play some tunes while you last hit with Q for 20 minutes. also learn to tell yourself that knowing you would die if you engaged 1v1 is not losing your lane. Whenever someone jumps on Irelia she can stun and lifesteal off the stunned champ AND the whole minion wave with ult while troll face is fully active.
Nasus destroys Irelia, he will outsustain her later and can win trades with just Q. He has a rough start that is easily mitigated by armor 5
Cleanse.
Not only will Cleanse wipe the CC but it will also wipe the Ignite.
And now that the Summoner talents are t1, you can always have Cleanse upgraded (which is what makes new Cleanse amazing).
New Cleanse is going to be a new standard for mid-laners if people are at all sensible.
You can win that if you also have burst, CC and Ignite. It's why Brand vs Xerath nuke-ups are so epic.
Uh oh, looks like you're in the DANGER ZONE.
Also, Looks like Veigar is getting "playability changes" next patch.