So just played my first match as Shyvana jungle. In ranked. Did really well. I never fell behind in level, ganked, killed their jungle Yi a few times.
Did. Not. Matter.
Bottom lane got beat, the 'omg i iz pro let me mid and carry you gais' Nidalee got beat by Ryze mid and ganked by Yi. Sion took a great big ole dump top lane versus Nasus. Even though I ganked Nasus twice and chased him out a third time.
I refused to surrender when I was 5/1/2, ended up 5/9/4. These people had no idea how to team fight. We had the better composition too. >_<
Ganks: Have the lane initiate, walk in, heal if necessary, then spam Q while using E for silences (also applies red buff now ). That's the broad strokes.
Itemization:
I usually go for philo + boots 1, then Vitality stone (don't complete shurylia's too early. gp5 is cool), then merc treads (ninja tabi is 2nd choice). Later on, get Will of the Ancients (get hextech pretty early, complete as necessary), Glacial Shroud (maxes your cooldown with shurylias and masteries, complete to Frozen is useful, which it usually is), Rylai's, Abyssal.
Your AP is a little light, as is your burst, but you are hard to kill and strip any amount of MR to zero. During my game before the screenshotted one, I was able to chase Galio out of lane late game, only not killing him due to fearing a gank.
Thx gonna play around with this. Don't have the cdr runes yet but I'll see what I can come up with
If I were to go AD on any AP assassin, it'd be AD Leblanc. She's actually legit good.
She's got a reposition (that you can hop back with). A root. And a silence for when assassins come after her. Then she can double up on any of those. (eg, double chains to wail on a jarvan that's after you). Completely legit.
What's that? Early game a little poor, kills about even but Akali is super fed? First couple of teamfights went poorly, we lost two inhib towers but saved the inhibs?
TIME TO MAN UP AND BUY AN ORACLES
RYZE-ACLES
Oh hey, look at that, Akali totally neutered. Win next four teamfights, crush Nexus, win game. Is there any other champ that is rendered so totally inconsequential by 400 gold?
That was also the tankiest team I've been on in a long time. Ryze, Pantheon, Maokai, Poppy, Malphite? No wonder we ruled from 25-44 minutes, lol.
It does kind of baffle the mind, doesn't it? A fed Trynd is a nightmare, impossible to counter without heavy coordinated CC; a fed Akali is countered by 400g and just smart teamfighting.
Range on oracles is balls though. I'd rather drop a pink ward then expect oracle to save, say Lux, from a Twitch.
So, asking for some feedback on how I jungle Shyvana.
I run attack speed reds, armor yellows, m.res blues, and armor penetration quints. Get a vampiric scepter. Start at wolves and blue buff with leashes, then clear wraiths and golems. Recall and buy cloth armor. Then run back to do red buff, clear the normal creeps again. Then recall for boots, and teleport onto a minion wave or tower to setup a gank. Then clear through the jungle and try another gank. Then recall and shop. Then hit blue as it comes back and go to gank again. Then clear and get red again.
That is roughly what I have figured out. Also, Shyvana is pretty tough. I was surprised how easy I was able to take down Nasus top lane, guess he really needs the farm. She may not have any real CC, but her transformation pushing someone the WRONG way down a lane is a great way to gank.
I'm not too intent on using her dragon form as an initiator outside that though. Despite defense, she doesn't benefit from dragon form vs a single champ. Although, wow does she stack of defenses. Just a wit's end and a wriggle can go a long way with the passive from her ult and runes.
I'd have to watch a replay to know for sure. I'd advise smite/exhaust over smite/teleport due to her just being so mobile anyways.
One thing to note is that, if you can get away with it and aren't being counterjungled, and your lanes are doing ok, you can do a stupid crazy first pass through the jungle with vamp. Enemy wraiths (full clear unfortunately), wolves, wraiths, blue, wolves, wraiths, golems, red, wraiths, wolves. You hit freaking 5 before B. But those are rare, and you usually gotta gank before that.
I saw Yi try to gank really early as I was finishing a run. I considered taking some of his jungle. Like I said, it was my first game. I wish more people ran clairvoyance. Then I could ask them to peek. Even more so because I destroyed Yi until he got fed. I would have loved to bump into him in jungle. Well, until his team got me back for it.
Got a bunch of PA draft games with phant, drokmir, nimnar, alucien and straigint. It's still hard for me to connect in game names with forum names.
Each one was jawsome. My favorite match was a support-cho'gath who didn't buy boots until after his ROA. It was amazing; I could just chase him down all day.
And of course like a scrub I forgot to do any replays.
zerg rush on
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
edited December 2011
Jungle Skarner.
Attack Speed reds/blues and 3 Armor Pen Quints, or 6 Armour Pen Reds, 3 flat AD reds, flat AD Quints and flat AP blues?
I just use AS reds, armor yellows, scaling MR blues, MS quints. It's my generic jungle setup for any champ. I waste all my IP on champions. :P
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
I can see the Attack Speed helping out to some degree getting stuff off cooldown, but it doesn't seem to be all that much.
It's a case of attacking 1/10th of a second faster, or doing an extra 10 damage (an extra 17%, 67.9 versus 58.3), while reducing the jungle creeps' armour to zero, doing effectively true damage.
I saw Yi try to gank really early as I was finishing a run. I considered taking some of his jungle. Like I said, it was my first game. I wish more people ran clairvoyance. Then I could ask them to peek. Even more so because I destroyed Yi until he got fed. I would have loved to bump into him in jungle. Well, until his team got me back for it.
Tempted to start my jungle at enemy wraiths now.
Yarrr. Well try it out on a bot game to check it out. Also remember E->hit->W+Q to get the most out of your damage. It's a really tight path, so one or two mistimings mean you might die. On the other hand, if you pull it off then get a gank after you B, you'll hit 6 before the solo lanes (which helps guarantee another successful gank).
As for stealing the enemy jungle, I do it every time I know I where the enemies all are. If I ever see the enemy jungle in one lane, that's my queue to go visit the jungle camps opposite. Whether or not I clear out the camps fully (or leave alive one guy) depends on how far away he is. If he's far away I'll only partially wipe it out (because he'll be hurt by the long respawn timer); If he's close I'll wipe it out completely (so I know the exact respawn timer).
Timers are very important, and just something you get a feel for in game. In a couple of matches tonight for example, I had better timers on the enemy jungle than their jungle did. The enemy would form up for dragon as soon as they saw it pop on the map and it would be dead by the time they got there. Since we didn't need to ward dragon, I could use my wriggle's wards for their red/blue/river-ramp, which gave even more control and snowballed from there. The biggest advantage of invasion is knowing when the timers will be on the enemy jungle. If you're blue team and took their red (for example), they'll be forced to gank top early because they'll walk into the jungle and find it empty and end up finishing near golems. Then you can freely counter-gank his gank (since he'll be underleveled compared to you AND you'll have red while he doesn't AND you'll have a timer on his gank).
If you put up a replay I can watch and give pointers. Or if you're NA we could play together some time. But yeah, Shyvana is rad and I love everything about her jungle.
I can see the Attack Speed helping out to some degree getting stuff off cooldown, but it doesn't seem to be all that much.
It's a case of attacking 1/10th of a second faster, or doing an extra 10 damage (an extra 17%, 67.9 versus 58.3), while reducing the jungle creeps' armour to zero, doing effectively true damage.
TOUGH CHOICE.
You are, objectively speaking correct. I'm just so IP poor and I spent it all on the fox-waifu.
I guess my next purchase will be AD/Arpen reds and something that helps jungle blues. But you can pry my MS quints from my cold dead hands. They're the only quints I own, and that's what I'm sticking with.
I don't know why people would rather ban Akali than say, Tryn.
You can't neutralize Tryn for 400 gold.
You cannot neutralize Akali for 400 gold if she is played properly, either. I think Trynd does scale better into the end game, but Akali's mid game is vastly better.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
The more I think about it the cooler Viktor's passive seems. It's got a very Dawn of War commander upgrade to it, except for your inability to sell the upgrade back. It gives him more flexibility in lane. I'm curious as to whether everyone can see it ala Dominion items or if just you will be able to.
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DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
The more I think about it the cooler Viktor's passive seems. It's got a very Dawn of War commander upgrade to it, except for your inability to sell the upgrade back. It gives him more flexibility in lane. I'm curious as to whether everyone can see it ala Dominion items or if just you will be able to.
First time I heard of his passive, "Necron Lord from Dark Crusade" popped into my head. Since he was my favourite commander unit I can't wait to see it in action.
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
edited December 2011
it seems that whenever the devs talk about 'deception' what they really mean is 'burst damage'
how is ahri Q an 'orb of deception' at all? :bz
TIFunkalicious on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Posts
Oh, you. 8->
Did. Not. Matter.
Bottom lane got beat, the 'omg i iz pro let me mid and carry you gais' Nidalee got beat by Ryze mid and ganked by Yi. Sion took a great big ole dump top lane versus Nasus. Even though I ganked Nasus twice and chased him out a third time.
I refused to surrender when I was 5/1/2, ended up 5/9/4. These people had no idea how to team fight. We had the better composition too. >_<
Thx gonna play around with this. Don't have the cdr runes yet but I'll see what I can come up with
550
I'm convincing someone to bot game it now. If we go to PvPs I'll let you know.
Also, AD LeBlanc is apparently a thing.
She's got a reposition (that you can hop back with). A root. And a silence for when assassins come after her. Then she can double up on any of those. (eg, double chains to wail on a jarvan that's after you). Completely legit.
TIME TO MAN UP AND BUY AN ORACLES
RYZE-ACLES
Oh hey, look at that, Akali totally neutered. Win next four teamfights, crush Nexus, win game. Is there any other champ that is rendered so totally inconsequential by 400 gold?
That was also the tankiest team I've been on in a long time. Ryze, Pantheon, Maokai, Poppy, Malphite? No wonder we ruled from 25-44 minutes, lol.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
You can't neutralize Tryn for 400 gold.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Eve still sucks, though.
So, asking for some feedback on how I jungle Shyvana.
I run attack speed reds, armor yellows, m.res blues, and armor penetration quints. Get a vampiric scepter. Start at wolves and blue buff with leashes, then clear wraiths and golems. Recall and buy cloth armor. Then run back to do red buff, clear the normal creeps again. Then recall for boots, and teleport onto a minion wave or tower to setup a gank. Then clear through the jungle and try another gank. Then recall and shop. Then hit blue as it comes back and go to gank again. Then clear and get red again.
That is roughly what I have figured out. Also, Shyvana is pretty tough. I was surprised how easy I was able to take down Nasus top lane, guess he really needs the farm. She may not have any real CC, but her transformation pushing someone the WRONG way down a lane is a great way to gank.
I'm not too intent on using her dragon form as an initiator outside that though. Despite defense, she doesn't benefit from dragon form vs a single champ. Although, wow does she stack of defenses. Just a wit's end and a wriggle can go a long way with the passive from her ult and runes.
One thing to note is that, if you can get away with it and aren't being counterjungled, and your lanes are doing ok, you can do a stupid crazy first pass through the jungle with vamp. Enemy wraiths (full clear unfortunately), wolves, wraiths, blue, wolves, wraiths, golems, red, wraiths, wolves. You hit freaking 5 before B. But those are rare, and you usually gotta gank before that.
Tempted to start my jungle at enemy wraiths now.
Each one was jawsome. My favorite match was a support-cho'gath who didn't buy boots until after his ROA. It was amazing; I could just chase him down all day.
And of course like a scrub I forgot to do any replays.
Attack Speed reds/blues and 3 Armor Pen Quints, or 6 Armour Pen Reds, 3 flat AD reds, flat AD Quints and flat AP blues?
(Yellows are always flat armour, obviously.)
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
It's a case of attacking 1/10th of a second faster, or doing an extra 10 damage (an extra 17%, 67.9 versus 58.3), while reducing the jungle creeps' armour to zero, doing effectively true damage.
TOUGH CHOICE.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Yarrr. Well try it out on a bot game to check it out. Also remember E->hit->W+Q to get the most out of your damage. It's a really tight path, so one or two mistimings mean you might die. On the other hand, if you pull it off then get a gank after you B, you'll hit 6 before the solo lanes (which helps guarantee another successful gank).
As for stealing the enemy jungle, I do it every time I know I where the enemies all are. If I ever see the enemy jungle in one lane, that's my queue to go visit the jungle camps opposite. Whether or not I clear out the camps fully (or leave alive one guy) depends on how far away he is. If he's far away I'll only partially wipe it out (because he'll be hurt by the long respawn timer); If he's close I'll wipe it out completely (so I know the exact respawn timer).
Timers are very important, and just something you get a feel for in game. In a couple of matches tonight for example, I had better timers on the enemy jungle than their jungle did. The enemy would form up for dragon as soon as they saw it pop on the map and it would be dead by the time they got there. Since we didn't need to ward dragon, I could use my wriggle's wards for their red/blue/river-ramp, which gave even more control and snowballed from there. The biggest advantage of invasion is knowing when the timers will be on the enemy jungle. If you're blue team and took their red (for example), they'll be forced to gank top early because they'll walk into the jungle and find it empty and end up finishing near golems. Then you can freely counter-gank his gank (since he'll be underleveled compared to you AND you'll have red while he doesn't AND you'll have a timer on his gank).
If you put up a replay I can watch and give pointers. Or if you're NA we could play together some time. But yeah, Shyvana is rad and I love everything about her jungle.
You are, objectively speaking correct. I'm just so IP poor and I spent it all on the fox-waifu.
I guess my next purchase will be AD/Arpen reds and something that helps jungle blues. But you can pry my MS quints from my cold dead hands. They're the only quints I own, and that's what I'm sticking with.
Abilities.
You can get super-cheap ArmourPen and MagPen quints right now - 775IP each I think? 3xArmPen quints gives you the magic 10 Armour Pen, for jungling.
I spend all my IP on runes, I think.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Flat AP would be my 2nd choice for blue, if you have those.
You cannot neutralize Akali for 400 gold if she is played properly, either. I think Trynd does scale better into the end game, but Akali's mid game is vastly better.
Do you usually go for the IE, SOtD or Starks for your first item?
First time I heard of his passive, "Necron Lord from Dark Crusade" popped into my head. Since he was my favourite commander unit I can't wait to see it in action.
how is ahri Q an 'orb of deception' at all? :bz
Because you see it coming and you're all OH NOES I'M GONNA GET HIT BY A BALL!
But then...
DECEPTION!
You got hit by a ball. Twice.
DECEPTION!
Blinks in a straight line right on top of you and uses all of her abilities in sequence to murder you
I tried twice in dominion. It went poorly.
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