When the bar comes off your chest... don't stop [Weightlifting thread]

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  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Oh shit! A bigman thread! I started lifting properly at Christmas and this thread is exactly what I need.

    Previously I was a skinny runner sort - did a 12 hour Ironman, a couple ultras, weighed 80kg at 6'2". Couldn't lift a really light thing. That's an exaggeration - I lifted casually on/off before.

    I've been kind of making it up as I go along and learning a lot. I've now arrived at a really enjoyable, solid program and i've gained 10kg. Getting strong is actually not that hard! Who knew!

    For anyone interested:
    Routine:

    a/b/rest/c/rest/repeat

    a = chest/tri
    b = back/bi
    c = shoulders/legs

    I usually start with two heavy compounds 5,5,5,3,1,1/3-5min rest. Then I do several body-building style isolations at ~4x10/90sec for weak points.

    1RM numbers:
    115kg/253lb - Squat.
    160kg/352lb - DL.
    95kg/209lb - Bench.
    67.5kg/149lb - Press.
    80kg/176lb - P Clean - still sorting technique for these. Not fast enough currently.

    A few of the things that have been important for me:

    - Protein is a big deal. I hardly progressed at all previously but now I get ~150-200g/day my lifts are going up rapidly.
    - Knowing goals is key. Everyone wants to lose weight, get massive and fit at the same time. That is really hard. I just got stronger, now i'm cutting down a bit (did a half IM last weekend).
    - Having a good knowledge of anatomy is essential - you need to know what exercises are hitting which muscles and have a good balance between them all. I'm lucky because I did a degree with lots of Human anatomy but 'Strength Training Anatomy' has almost all you need.
    - Experiment!

    Looking forward to having fun convo's about becoming mighty with you lot!

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    Nice to have more folks around. I'm curious about why you made up your own program instead of just going with pre-written one? And what kind of goals do you have (strength, physique, competition, etc)?

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Mostly because it was more interesting. I tried out a 5x5 program for a bit but it didn't really suit me for various reasons. This is what I arrived at after mixing up all the stuff I tried previously plus lots more reading (T-nation is really good). I also recover quite fast so a 5 day rotation suits me.

    I was actually pretty strong before after years of Motocross but I had a few bad weak points that needed fixing (lats, hamstrings and pecs), so I focus on those quite a bit.

    Goals wise, i'm just going for general strength and good posture/biomechanics. I don't plan on competing and I want to maintain my weight around 85-95kg. I'm probably going to get into Capoeira later on this year so i'm starting to work on explosive movements a bit more. Unfortunately my gym is a bit cramped for me to do snatches and jerks but i've got plenty to occupy me for now.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    Look at the comments, he replies within them in italics... he's just a douche.

    Out of all the things to nitpick over, you chose this.


    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    So this is the thread to ask about weight lifting stuff, right?

    I don't want to hulk out as much as stop being fat

    I live right next to a YMCA that has basically one of everything, and I want to spend an hour in their gym each morning before work

    My problem is I have absolutely no idea how to plan out using the weightlifting equipment or free weights in order to best shed some pounds

    2x39jD4.jpg
  • LuvTheMonkeyLuvTheMonkey High Sierra Serenade Registered User regular
    This is also a topic I am interested in! (Weight lifting for fat loss)

    I have a pretty solid cardio program, and do some lifting with a friend when we go on different days. I can definitely notice a difference in that my cardio is much more efficient at fat burning, wondering if there's weight training styles that will match up with it.

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  • CangoFettCangoFett Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    So this is the thread to ask about weight lifting stuff, right?

    I don't want to hulk out as much as stop being fat

    I live right next to a YMCA that has basically one of everything, and I want to spend an hour in their gym each morning before work

    My problem is I have absolutely no idea how to plan out using the weightlifting equipment or free weights in order to best shed some pounds

    I think most people here will recommend against weight machines. I'm personally using Starting Strength, which alot of the internet worships. Its a book on how to use barbells for the basic lifts without hurting yourself, and a 1 hourish program 3 times a week. Its working pretty good for me. In one month my squat has gone from 85 to 165, my bench from 135 to 165, and my overhead press from eighty with crappy form (shouldve been like, 70) to 90 with maybe-its-okay? form.

    Oh, and deadlift from 165 to 210.

    Those numbers should probably be a bit more drastic, but I started too high with some of those weights, and shift work/missing a couple workouts/horrrrible nutrition have all affected it negatively.

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    What Cango said. Clean up your diet, really clean it up not just half-heartedly, and do compound barbell movements. It takes years of dedicated training to "hulk out," if you ever do, so don't give that a second thought. Lift big, get strong.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    And for aesthetics/weight loss, higher sets/reps and lighter weight.



    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • MethuselahMethuselah Registered User regular
    and for folks that wonder why Tube doesn't like people who spend more time deriding what others do in the gym rather than just focusing on their own shit, i'd hazard a guess that it's because it leads to things like that (and those comments)


    This is the author of that article clean and pressing 230 at a BW of 210. He was a nationally competitive weightlifter. He stopped that, because now he travels around the world hosting seminars on programming. But you're probably right, he should just focus on his own shit.

    That article was more anti-Crossfit stuff from 70's big, pretty normal for Justin. His point was that heavy compound movements should be done in proper footwear, to facilitate getting stronger, faster. He even admits to owning and wearing a pair of vibrams, for Christ's sake. Elevated heels do wonders.

    I am high strung today. Gym was closed. My fault for not knowing the schedule. Oh well, Volume Day #1 Monday!

  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    Methuselah wrote: »
    and for folks that wonder why Tube doesn't like people who spend more time deriding what others do in the gym rather than just focusing on their own shit, i'd hazard a guess that it's because it leads to things like that (and those comments)


    This is the author of that article clean and pressing 230 at a BW of 210. He was a nationally competitive weightlifter. He stopped that, because now he travels around the world hosting seminars on programming. But you're probably right, he should just focus on his own shit.

    That article was more anti-Crossfit stuff from 70's big, pretty normal for Justin. His point was that heavy compound movements should be done in proper footwear, to facilitate getting stronger, faster. He even admits to owning and wearing a pair of vibrams, for Christ's sake. Elevated heels do wonders.

    I am high strung today. Gym was closed. My fault for not knowing the schedule. Oh well, Volume Day #1 Monday!

    good for him, he's also a prick

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    Look at the comments, he replies within them in italics... he's just a douche.

    Out of all the things to nitpick over, you chose this.


    I fail at grammar probably, or something. I meant what he was saying in the italics, his replies, made him a douchenozzle.

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: ArthilCwcuLUM.jpg
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist ኢትዮጵያRegistered User regular
    This week was supposed to be heavy week, but I got a cold. I am sad for that.
    I guess I'll have to do what I can to make all my heavy sets next week.

    Also, re: the vibram thing. I do pretty much all my lifting barefoot, bar Mondays and Saturdays when I do my sessions in the gym instead of at home, in which case I wear Dunlop Volleys. Feels OK to me, so I'm gonna keep it up. I don't think I need another pair of shoes around here.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    This week was supposed to be heavy week, but I got a cold. I am sad for that.
    I guess I'll have to do what I can to make all my heavy sets next week.

    How bad was your cold? I've been ill for a while but I just accept that I may not be pb'ing everything. I usually feel better after too.

  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist ኢትዮጵያRegistered User regular
    I could've trained today, actually, I'm feeling a touch better.
    But A) I have other stuff to do, and you know how when your routine is interrupted in can be tough to slot yourself back in?
    and B) I didn't man up, I'm a tremendous sissy etc. etc.

    Gonna finish this essay tomorrow, then come Monday morning, gonna squat my socks off.

    Next week will be the one where I chin with a 20kg plate.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    and B) I didn't man up, I'm a tremendous sissy etc. etc.

    Next week will be the one where I chin with a 20kg plate.

    Acknowledging it is the first part of the battle brother. Fight on! Hoo rah!

    I can do 1 20kg plate pull up. Boy am I glad I don't weight 110kg.

    I think I might be a bit addicted to lifting - really wanted to go today but I had to wait in for a parcel. I can feel my pecs wasting away.

  • CangoFettCangoFett Registered User regular
    At what point in pullups does it become "Okay, now you're just showing off, start doing weighted pullups"

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    If I could do three sets of ten I'd start weighting.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    I thought that but why treat it any differently than other big compounds? I want to get stronger at pulling upwards, so I progressively add weight and use low rep ranges.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I'm saying what I'd do. If you want to get good at doing one pullup with a lot weight, that's the way to do it.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Fo sho. I'm just suggesting that the strength gains from doing weighted pull-ups translate into being able to do more too. Win-win!

  • CowSharkCowShark Registered User regular
    What if you stall out at three sets of seven or eight? Maybe add some weight for a while to mix it up?

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Absolutely change something if you stall.

    I spent years doing 4x8 for everything with no progress. When I started mixing it up that changed quickly.

    I currently like to do 5,5,5,3,1,1 for big compounds with heavy, increasing weight and 4x8-10 for isolations, increasing weight when I rep out 2x in a row. When I stall i'll switch to high rep/low weight for a bit, or maybe slightly different exercises (dumbbells/bodyweight/faster/slower/bands/chains) though I think that'll take a while.

    Jimmy Marku on
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist ኢትዮጵያRegistered User regular
    CangoFett wrote: »
    At what point in pullups does it become "Okay, now you're just showing off, start doing weighted pullups"

    Each to their own. I'd go close to Tube's advice though, but in my case I'd say if you can do one set of ten, time to start doing them weighted.
    My pullup numbers have varied a lot over the years as I've gained and lost weight at various times. One thing I've learnt is that, for me at least, weighted pullups do very little for improving how many pullups I can do, total. That result in kind of counterintuitive.

    I've learnt that the only thing that seems to work in getting higher pullup numbers is to frequently do lots of pullups. Like, on five of the days of the week do a set of 10 (if 10 is your max). On one of the days you rest. And on one of the days you do three sets of as many as you can. There's your weekly pullup program.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    Fo sho. I'm just suggesting that the strength gains from doing weighted pull-ups translate into being able to do more too. Win-win!

    Doesn't really work that way. To an extent increasing your 1RM for any given exercise increases the number of reps you can do at any given weight, but it's a fairly minimal effect relative to training for reps. Due to the different types of muscle fibers and the way they're recruited, training strictly for strength will never get you significant amounts of endurance. You have to at least pyramid up through some light sets of 8-12 reps if you hope to gain endurance through heavy lifting.

  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    CangoFett wrote: »
    At what point in pullups does it become "Okay, now you're just showing off, start doing weighted pullups"

    That's strictly determined by your goals. Muscle fibers are always recruited from weakest (highest endurance) to strongest (lowest endurance). Muscle fibers can be trained in either one or both of these capacities (strength and endurance), depending on the type of fiber. The weakest fibers can gain almost no strength, but can significantly increase their endurance. Conversely, the strongest fibers can get significantly stronger, but have little capacity for endurance (which is why your 1RM can only be done for 1 rep).

    High weight, low rep training is designed to fully exhaust your strongest muscle fibers. The strongest of your muscle fibers are generally only recruited at weights >= 90% of your 1RM (more or less). When you work in that weight range, every muscle fiber in the muscle gets recruited (like i said, weakest to strongest), but they don't all get exhausted. The mid-range fibers have a maximum amount of force that they can apply to any given rep, but they have the capacity to apply that force repeatedly before becoming exhausted. Consequently, working solely in a high-weight, low-rep scheme works, but doesn't exhaust the majority of your muscle fibers. Specifically, it fails to train the energy systems necessary to increase the endurance of these moderately strong fibers.

    Conversely, training solely with a high-rep, low-weight scheme fails to engage the strongest muscle fibers in the muscle. You'll have a much harder time increasing your 1RM because you're ignoring the fibers most capable of myofibrillar hypertrophy (building contractile units in the muscle).

    IMHO, I would focus on bodyweight pullups until I could do 15 consecutive reps with good form. At that point in time, I would focus on a weighted pyramid program, utilizing a 5 set, 12/9/6/6/6 rep scheme. I would avoid going too heavy, because exhaustion could lead to a drop to dead hang, which is a recipe for injury when you've added extra weight.

    That's just me, though.

    Edit - It's not as functional, but I would only train the pull-up motion at >90% 1RM with a cable pulldown. That way you can let go of the bar and not go crashing to the ground with weights attached to you.

    But I have a history of shoulder injuries, so I tend to be protective of that particular joint.

    the wook on
  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Hmm. Good points.

    I have a slightly different take though: Sure, if you just did 1rm all the time then you would only work on your strength/type IIx and type IIb fibres, with almost no 'endurance' improvement (though you would still get some cardiovascular adaptations such as angiogenesis and improved ATP metabolism, which would contribute to endurance).

    However a pyramid like 5,5,5,3,1,1 would provide considerable short-term metabolic/'endurance' and pure strength stimulus. Also, your strength should increase faster than if you do 12,12,10,8,8 say.

    My point is - why treat pull-ups differently from other big compounds that you do for strength? I don't know many people who regularly do sets of 12 for squats if they're into strength because that wouldn't help them achieve their goals. I guess that's the key point really - lots of people do pull-ups so they can do more pull-ups because it's impressive. In that case you are no longer training for pure strength so just pick a number and keep going 'til you hit it.

    I personally want to get stronger at pulling myself up, so I add weight and do low reps. I do the same for dips.

    Obviously the point i'm missing is that you are more likely to injure yourself when you're hanging with weight around your waist. As far as i'm concerned though, as long as you focus hard on maintaining good form and tension in your shoulders, you shouldn't have much to worry about. I always know when things are looking dodgy and I just drop and let my legs absorb the weight smoothly, rather than going to a dead hang.


    p.s. Bench pb today! 100kg! Woo!

    Jimmy Marku on
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Peen wrote: »

    That's a pretty old article, how in the heck did you dig that one up? I think it's mostly a dig at CrossFitters anyway.
    Arthil wrote: »
    So that guy is basically a complete dumb ass, more or less.

    Not quite. I'd probably not start calling people dumbasses just because you've done SS for a month. The article might be a little over the top, but it's hardly the first time someone in the "fitness industry" has written an unnecessarily obnoxious article about their pet hate or whatever else.

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    Lifting in a new gym tomorrow just to try it out. It's got less equipment and space than my current one, but it's within walking distance and has a good squat rack with fairly nice adjustable pins and safeties. Also it doesn't appear to get much use.

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    Peen wrote: »

    That's a pretty old article, how in the heck did you dig that one up? I think it's mostly a dig at CrossFitters anyway.

    He linked it in something else. I like Justin a lot and 70sBig was great when they started it, I thought it was funny that he picked that issue to go off about. I don't even have an opinion on it, I don't know anything about the mechanics involved in weightlifting and whether you need shoes or not. I do know that he's strong as hell and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what he says.

    New deadlift PR coming today, even if it's just 5lbs. I'm pretty psyched. On a related question, what do you guys do when your lower back gets a little achy? I've got a deload week coming up so I figure that'll do clear it up but I'm not sure if I should be doing more accessory work for it or if it's just a natural thing.

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »

    That's a pretty old article, how in the heck did you dig that one up? I think it's mostly a dig at CrossFitters anyway.

    He linked it in something else. I like Justin a lot and 70sBig was great when they started it, I thought it was funny that he picked that issue to go off about. I don't even have an opinion on it, I don't know anything about the mechanics involved in weightlifting and whether you need shoes or not. I do know that he's strong as hell and I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what he says.

    New deadlift PR coming today, even if it's just 5lbs. I'm pretty psyched. On a related question, what do you guys do when your lower back gets a little achy? I've got a deload week coming up so I figure that'll do clear it up but I'm not sure if I should be doing more accessory work for it or if it's just a natural thing.

    Aside from 'they look a bit weird' I don't really have an opinion either. I guess when your life revolves around one thing it's easy to blow stuff out of proportion.

    Good luck with the DL! My low back always feels sore after deadlifting and I make sure it feels completely fine before I DL again. Usually takes 3 days, but I only DL once every 5. I can still squat normally if it's a little sore. Funnily enough, I always get a sore low back when I start running or cycling after time off, so I don't think it's something to worry about (just as long as it's muscle soreness, not bad aching/shooting/stabbing pain).

    Just keep monitoring it. Stretch a bit. Muscle soreness should go away after no more than a week without further loading.

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    I've actually been wanting to buy a pair of Vibrams for like 3 years now, but I never get around to it.

    Now that they're so popular I can't do it. I need a newer, hipper pair of minimalist shoes.

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    Peen wrote: »
    New deadlift PR coming today, even if it's just 5lbs. I'm pretty psyched. On a related question, what do you guys do when your lower back gets a little achy? I've got a deload week coming up so I figure that'll do clear it up but I'm not sure if I should be doing more accessory work for it or if it's just a natural thing.

    Achy in what way? Mine gets achy sometimes from sitting badly at my desk, but it doesn't happen as often since I started weight training regularly and properly. I usually still train though, unless it is actually sore or fatigued. I've personally been a fan of barbell good mornings as assistance. They always seem to soothe my back after a heavy DL session if I do a few light sets, though I'm not quite sure why. I also do some heavier sets on days when I haven't been DL'ing.

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • ProlegomenaProlegomena Frictionless Spinning The VoidRegistered User regular
    I've actually been wanting to buy a pair of Vibrams for like 3 years now, but I never get around to it.

    Now that they're so popular I can't do it. I need a newer, hipper pair of minimalist shoes.

    The latest thing is to wrap a couple of vine leaves around your foot and tie this off at the top with some hemp twine.

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    Just a bit sore, not the "ow I did something wrong" pain. I know ab work can be the key to keeping your lower back ok but I'm curious what sorts of things you guys do for yours.

  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Just a bit sore, not the "ow I did something wrong" pain. I know ab work can be the key to keeping your lower back ok but I'm curious what sorts of things you guys do for yours.

    One of my favorite ab exercises is the alternating swiss-ball stepoffs described in this article

  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »

    That's a pretty old article, how in the heck did you dig that one up? I think it's mostly a dig at CrossFitters anyway.
    Arthil wrote: »
    So that guy is basically a complete dumb ass, more or less.

    Not quite. I'd probably not start calling people dumbasses just because you've done SS for a month. The article might be a little over the top, but it's hardly the first time someone in the "fitness industry" has written an unnecessarily obnoxious article about their pet hate or whatever else.

    My experience doesn't really have anything to do with him exuding "I'm a dick" in his article and comment replies.

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: ArthilCwcuLUM.jpg
  • Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    Man I really need to order a harness for neck training. My neck apparently got wrenched yesterday at BJJ and today it hates me.

    "I will f**kin' beat you into the ground in front of your whole life that I don't get to have." -Nick Diaz

    I love south american ground karate
  • OghulkOghulk Registered User regular
    Shitty day in the dream, but I guess I could attribute that to 4 hours of sleep if nothing else

  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I've actually been wanting to buy a pair of Vibrams for like 3 years now, but I never get around to it.

    Now that they're so popular I can't do it. I need a newer, hipper pair of minimalist shoes.

    I have a pair of Titan deadlift slippers which are about as minimalist as it gets. They are actually just a thin low cut sock with a 2-3mm rubber sole sewn on the bottom. Great to pull in (and fun to deadlift in as well)

    TheRealBadger on
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