When the bar comes off your chest... don't stop [Weightlifting thread]

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  • CaptainBeyondCaptainBeyond Registered User regular
    the wook wrote: »
    So I tried the Jefferson lift from this article tonight at the gym. I have never felt such an immediate burn in my sides. 3x6 @ 175.

    I like the idea of doing a day of 'odd lifts', to promote lifting ability in less traditional ways. I see it as having some good real world application, as rarely do you get to lift things from an 'ideal' stance.

    How much time do people give to training grip strength? Mines pretty good anyway, but I reckon it might be worth adding a specific exercise to get some real vice-hands going.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    If you post a video from the side I can give whatever feedback I can. It sounds like this guy. Was giving the right cue for the wrong reason.

    also if you're using light weight it's not unusual to lose control of the bar if you're using proper, explosive hip drive. That might be the problem.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • ProlegomenaProlegomena Frictionless Spinning The VoidRegistered User regular
    Once the bar is past your knees you should be thrusting your hips in and up as hard as you can. That's all there really is to it. Once you do it you'll go "oh right, like that" and find it hard to imagine that you didn't do that the whole time. Hit the bar with your hips.

    Can definitely feel the difference doing that, will need a bit more work of course. My next problem is a tendency to start pulling with my arms when the weight gets heavier rather than increasing the force of my jump. Best to work on form with a weight at which I can do it right or just push to the point where things start to go wrong and work on smoothing it out?

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    A mix of both really. Work on your form with higher rep sets (3/4) of a lower weight and do some heavier singles to try and apply it when the weights are challenging. It's not like squatting or benching where you just keep pushing the weight up, most of your gains will come from technique until you're fairly advanced.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • Jimmy MarkuJimmy Marku Registered User regular
    edited June 2012
    I did some more powercleans today too. Finally nailed the hip drive bit. As Tube says, it's really noticeable the difference it makes when you try to quickly throw your hips forward - the bar goes up so much faster it's almost surprising.

    Gonna work on going up in weight now, 85kg max so far.

    Also, today I visited pb city, population ME.

    165kg DL, 70kg OHP, 102.5kg bench. 87.5kg bodyweight, 6'2". I love lifting heavy stuff!

    Jimmy Marku on
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist ኢትዮጵያRegistered User regular
    Real heavy session today.
    Front squats 3x3x92kg
    Chins, 20kg: Set of 2 (fail on 3), set of 2, then a single (fail on 2).
    Deadlifts: 2x3x145kg.

    Feeling pretty tender, yep.
    Also, hey @Prolegomena! I dig your avatar/sig combo, because Ultima Underworld was one of the most boss games of all time.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

    http://newnations.bandcamp.com
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    the wook wrote: »
    So I tried the Jefferson lift from this article tonight at the gym. I have never felt such an immediate burn in my sides. 3x6 @ 175.

    @the wook I was thinking about trying these but I was curious, did you switch which foot was in front of the bar between sets?

  • SliderSlider Registered User regular
    Went into LA Fitness today and was told about a nice deal they had going today.

    $25 down and $40 a month. Then they said, "Woops, our mistake. It'll actually be $25 down and $45 a month."

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    If you post a video from the side I can give whatever feedback I can. It sounds like this guy. Was giving the right cue for the wrong reason.
    Yeah basically, that's what was happening. I'll work on it a bit more before I inflict my shitty clean on the world in video format.

  • YoSoyTheWalrusYoSoyTheWalrus Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    the wook wrote: »
    So I tried the Jefferson lift from this article tonight at the gym. I have never felt such an immediate burn in my sides. 3x6 @ 175.

    @the wook I was thinking about trying these but I was curious, did you switch which foot was in front of the bar between sets?

    I tried these today on account of @the wook and they were fuckin ridiculous. They were shitty in a good way. I felt like an asshole while I was doing them and there was a guy waiting for the cage that was looking at me like I was the weirdest dickhead in the universe. I switched feet around sets of five because they fucking WRECKED by back leg.

    tumblr_mvlywyLVys1qigwg9o1_250.png
  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    So, this was on last night. Battle of the Champions. Will be some beastly goddamn Russians lifting a shitload of weight. Expect no totals under 1000kg and the smallest guy will probably be opening his squats at 400kg+

    Boris fucking Sheiko is the head judge!

    Anyway, I've not watched it yet, but I just cooked up some chilli, wedges and I am going to watch while I do some mobbing.

  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    the wook wrote: »
    So I tried the Jefferson lift from this article tonight at the gym. I have never felt such an immediate burn in my sides. 3x6 @ 175.

    @the wook I was thinking about trying these but I was curious, did you switch which foot was in front of the bar between sets?

    yeah, you have to. it's definitely a side-specific exercise. i am also consider switching hands while keeping the feet the same to switch the emphasis.

  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    Man, whoever mentioned hex bars for deadlifting earlier was spot on. Makes getting into position with my weird ass proportions and keeping good form way easier. Any downsides to the hex bar compared to the straight bar I should be aware of, because I'm really tempted to make the switch full time?

  • BEAST!BEAST! Adventurer Adventure!!!!!Registered User regular
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Man, whoever mentioned hex bars for deadlifting earlier was spot on. Makes getting into position with my weird ass proportions and keeping good form way easier. Any downsides to the hex bar compared to the straight bar I should be aware of, because I'm really tempted to make the switch full time?

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/508971-hex-trap-bar-deadlifts-vs-barbell-deadlifts/

    I would also guess barbell is slightly better for grip because you don't get the rolling with a hex bar?

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Hex bar is definitely easier to grip, I'd say. At least when comparing double overhand to it. Not sure what happens when you get to a weight where your grip fails on a hex bar, I don't believe you can use mixed? I guess straps are the next choice.

    Also I found hex bar easier to lift in general, felt more quad involvement. I'm sure Wook has some more insight, as he is the one who mentioned them initially I believe.

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • CandlemassCandlemass Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Man, whoever mentioned hex bars for deadlifting earlier was spot on. Makes getting into position with my weird ass proportions and keeping good form way easier. Any downsides to the hex bar compared to the straight bar I should be aware of, because I'm really tempted to make the switch full time?

    The change in the relative positioning of the weight makes the hex bar deadlift more of a squat than a deadlift. If you switch and still want the posterior benefits of the deadlift, might want to add in some extra work to make up for it.

    Candlemass on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

  • PraetorPraetor Registered User regular
    Well guys, I figure I might as well focus on doing something during this downtime. Managed to run into a wall at full sprint while playing Squash, so I'm not in the gym till Wednesday. Damn shoulder. In any case, where's a good place to start looking at flexibility/stretching or warmups? I've been just doing 30 seconds of third world squats before actually squatting, and stretching my arms overhead/out to the side before anything upper body related, and I figure this isn't enough, considering the tightness in my lower back especially.

    3DS FC: 3067-6095-3603
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Praetor wrote: »
    Well guys, I figure I might as well focus on doing something during this downtime. Managed to run into a wall at full sprint while playing Squash, so I'm not in the gym till Wednesday. Damn shoulder. In any case, where's a good place to start looking at flexibility/stretching or warmups? I've been just doing 30 seconds of third world squats before actually squatting, and stretching my arms overhead/out to the side before anything upper body related, and I figure this isn't enough, considering the tightness in my lower back especially.

    You could have a look at mobilitywod on youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/sanfranciscocrossfit

    Do some searches on their channel for relevant areas of interest. All of their hip and shoulder stuff is really good.

    Chances are if you sit down a lot, you have tightness in areas like the hips/glutes, pecs, lats to name a few, as well as reduced shoulder and thoracic mobility due to crappy posture. Stretches and drills for these areas will probably help.

    You can also do different stretches and release work using tennis/lacrosse balls, foam rollers/PVC pipes, resistance bands... the list goes on. You have to spend a bit of time learning what your body needs more or less of.

    I personally find my hip flexors don't seem to be too bad, but my glutes get knotted and tight if I don't take care of them semi-regularly with a tennis ball, often leading to lower back pain. My quads also get quite messy, and quad stretches and massage helps a lot.

    Tweaked_Bat_ on
  • YoSoyTheWalrusYoSoyTheWalrus Registered User regular
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Related: anyone have any decent shoulder exercises?

    tumblr_mvlywyLVys1qigwg9o1_250.png
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    To make them bigger? Stronger? Less achy?

  • YoSoyTheWalrusYoSoyTheWalrus Registered User regular
    Bigger. They're strong enough so I guess I should just be happy with that but as my traps and arms and everything get bigger and they don't, it's starting to look a little weird.

    tumblr_mvlywyLVys1qigwg9o1_250.png
  • OghulkOghulk Registered User regular
    I can do chin-ups and pull-ups now! About damn time.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    squats and deads twice a week.

    good on you, TRB!

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • Red_ArremerRed_Arremer Registered User regular
    So, I went from feeling like absolute shit during my workout two weeks ago to feeling fantastic during weights last night. Any explanation for this? Also, I was wondering if it's better to do things explosively versus concentric/eccentric. I remember reading that explosive movement is good if you want to use those muscles explosively, but I've also heard that doing things slow and controlled will make the muscles stronger than just letting the weight down without slow control.

  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Nothing special. Deadlifting twice a week. Rackpulling once a week. A moderate amount of rows and occasionally farmers walks. I am also eating a shitload.

    I am not generally one for Hamwhoring, but since you asked nicely:
    206zq15.jpg

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    well i just went from six to midnight

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    Oh, you.

    Only 3.5 weeks of training left before Nats. Starting to get excited.

  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    It's about to get heavy! Dadgum. I'm excited for it.

    Unfortunately the boots I've been wearing are slightly too big because shoe manufacturers can never quite agree what a 13 is. The point is my feet have started being a bitch if I'm not careful, but I should still be able to deadlift and upper body without too much hindrance.

    Aleve is gonna be my best friend pretty soon.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    Bigger. They're strong enough so I guess I should just be happy with that but as my traps and arms and everything get bigger and they don't, it's starting to look a little weird.

    There aren't and really solid compound exercises that aren't also going to hit your traps and arms. Sounds like you need to hit them with some isolation work.

    In general, the deltoids are smaller muscles with a higher-than-average capacity for high-frequency training. A really simple idea is to incorporate 3x10 front and side raises toward the end of your workout 3-4 times a week.

  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    Hex bar is definitely easier to grip, I'd say. At least when comparing double overhand to it. Not sure what happens when you get to a weight where your grip fails on a hex bar, I don't believe you can use mixed? I guess straps are the next choice.

    Also I found hex bar easier to lift in general, felt more quad involvement. I'm sure Wook has some more insight, as he is the one who mentioned them initially I believe.

    The mixed grip is not applicable to the hex bar. The reason a mixed grip is stronger than a double overhand grip on a straight bar is because it lowers the capacity of the bar to 'roll' out of your hands, as it would have to 'roll' opposite ways when using a mixed grip. In that sense, you can see that a hex bar can't 'roll' out of your hands, and if it could, a neutral grip is already mixed.

    In theory, straps could be used with a hex bar, but in my opinion the grip on a hex bar is already so easy that if you can deadlift more than you can hold, your grip is severely weak relative to the rest of your body, and should be addressed with additional grip training as opposed to straps.

    In regards to form, a hex bar deadlift is right between a conventional deadlift and a hack squat, in which you respectively pull the bar up in front of and behind your legs. On the squat/deadlift spectrum of form, moving the weight forward increases glute/ham recruitment, while moving the weight back increases quad recruitment. Using a hex bar, your natural tendency will be to center the weight over your feet, which will lead to a lift right between a squat and a deadlift.

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Nothing special. Deadlifting twice a week. Rackpulling once a week. A moderate amount of rows and occasionally farmers walks. I am also eating a shitload.

    Do you rackpull on the off days? And just heavy singles? More?

  • KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Registered User regular
    the wook wrote: »
    So I tried the Jefferson lift from this article tonight at the gym. I have never felt such an immediate burn in my sides. 3x6 @ 175.

    I like the idea of doing a day of 'odd lifts', to promote lifting ability in less traditional ways. I see it as having some good real world application, as rarely do you get to lift things from an 'ideal' stance.

    How much time do people give to training grip strength? Mines pretty good anyway, but I reckon it might be worth adding a specific exercise to get some real vice-hands going.

    I do a few exercises one day a week for grip. Any more than that and it starts to trash my other exercises.

    Heavy farmers walks. As much as you can hold. I go for 100 feet down, rest and come back. And then do it again.
    Sandbag lifts. Get a 70 Pd sandbag and grab it by the fabric in a pinch grip. Do a high pull. 5 sets of 5.
    I also do a single arm deadlift with the rolling thunder handle. ironmind-store.com/Rolling-Thunder174-Revolving-Deadlift-Handle/productinfo/1246/. As much as you can manage. Hold for 5 seconds at the top. I just 5 triples.

    Don't expect to drive anywhere for a couple of hours after doing those. I've had to tape my hands to the steering wheel a couple of times after I couldn't close my fingers.

  • TheRealBadgerTheRealBadger Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Nothing special. Deadlifting twice a week. Rackpulling once a week. A moderate amount of rows and occasionally farmers walks. I am also eating a shitload.

    Do you rackpull on the off days? And just heavy singles? More?

    In a comp prep at the moment. Doing light deads day early in the week (5s), heavy deads day later in the week (5s). Heavy rack pulls on the day after heavy deads (working up to a couple of heavy singles). Then as we get closer to comp, decrease the reps to 3s and 2s, up the intensity (~90%) and drop the rack pulls.



  • YoSoyTheWalrusYoSoyTheWalrus Registered User regular
    the wook wrote: »
    Bigger. They're strong enough so I guess I should just be happy with that but as my traps and arms and everything get bigger and they don't, it's starting to look a little weird.

    There aren't and really solid compound exercises that aren't also going to hit your traps and arms. Sounds like you need to hit them with some isolation work.

    In general, the deltoids are smaller muscles with a higher-than-average capacity for high-frequency training. A really simple idea is to incorporate 3x10 front and side raises toward the end of your workout 3-4 times a week.

    Thanks, this was my general idea. Appreciate it.

    tumblr_mvlywyLVys1qigwg9o1_250.png
  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    the wook wrote: »
    Bigger. They're strong enough so I guess I should just be happy with that but as my traps and arms and everything get bigger and they don't, it's starting to look a little weird.

    There aren't and really solid compound exercises that aren't also going to hit your traps and arms. Sounds like you need to hit them with some isolation work.

    In general, the deltoids are smaller muscles with a higher-than-average capacity for high-frequency training. A really simple idea is to incorporate 3x10 front and side raises toward the end of your workout 3-4 times a week.

    Thanks, this was my general idea. Appreciate it.

    You may get the best results by paring down your workouts to one or two heavy compound exercises per day and then throwing in the front and side raises. Maybe a press in the mix as well.

    This article talks about the release of mechano growth factor and IGF-1Ea following lifting, with the caveat that the release of both is dependent upon GH levels. As heavy compound exercises are one of the best non-drug-dependent ways to increase endocrine secretion of growth hormone, it's not a huge leap to presume high-frequency isolation training may be more efficacious when paired with heavy compounds.

    Note that you should probably stick with one 'problem' bodypart at a time with this type of training to avoid overloading your system. Even with the best hormonal environment, the body can only grow so fast. Focus on one muscle group and let it reap the benefits.

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    Thank you for your knowledge bombs, wook. I understand why mixed grip is stronger than double over in a conventional deadlift, I've just never hex bar DL'ed any significant weight, so I'm not sure at what point the grip on a hex DL becomes problematic.

  • Tweaked_Bat_Tweaked_Bat_ Registered User regular
    Also nice shot TRB. Lookin' pretty yoked.

  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Oh man. This latest cycle of training is giving me traps like a motherfucker.

    I could be scratching my ears with these things.

    Or, you know, I could flare them up to scare off a mountain lion.

    Relevant to your interests @Dead Legend

    a) please post a photo

    or otherwise:

    b) what are you doing, I also want big traps

    Nothing special. Deadlifting twice a week. Rackpulling once a week. A moderate amount of rows and occasionally farmers walks. I am also eating a shitload.

    Do you rackpull on the off days? And just heavy singles? More?

    In a comp prep at the moment. Doing light deads day early in the week (5s), heavy deads day later in the week (5s). Heavy rack pulls on the day after heavy deads (working up to a couple of heavy singles). Then as we get closer to comp, decrease the reps to 3s and 2s, up the intensity (~90%) and drop the rack pulls.

    Cheers and good luck, be the strongest Kiwi!

This discussion has been closed.