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Going to see this last episode in movie the movie theater. It's supposed to have some added content (like cast interviews and such) so it should be a treat.
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
he was high and in a death spiral in episode 2, and he had no good reason to recognise Eurus as Faith. Episode 3 was a big ol' revelatory meeting for him, and he was trying to pick apart her riddle about the violin. The glass was an irrelevant detail, so it's fair not to notice.
And did any viewers notice before him? I sure didn't!
I noticed the lack of any reflections pretty much as soon as Sherlock stepped into the room/picked up the violin.
So much of this episode seemed all about creating tension in the moment, so it doesn't hold up to being watched a second time at all.
I was hoping that the plane would at least turn out to be a simulator, given the little girl's oddly cool composure, but nope, it's just purely a fictional fragment of Euros's shattered psyche. A bit of a letdown. All the stakes were fake-outs.
he was high and in a death spiral in episode 2, and he had no good reason to recognise Eurus as Faith. Episode 3 was a big ol' revelatory meeting for him, and he was trying to pick apart her riddle about the violin. The glass was an irrelevant detail, so it's fair not to notice.
And did any viewers notice before him? I sure didn't!
I noticed the lack of any reflections pretty much as soon as Sherlock stepped into the room/picked up the violin.
So much of this episode seemed all about creating tension in the moment, so it doesn't hold up to being watched a second time at all.
I was hoping that the plane would at least turn out to be a simulator, given the little girl's oddly cool composure, but nope, it's just purely a fictional fragment of Euros's shattered psyche. A bit of a letdown. All the stakes were fake-outs.
Re: the stakes of this episode
Well no they weren't fake-outs. They were just awful no-win scenarios. Which makes the stakes very low. Actually lower than actual stakes since they're more whims than rules. All of the time spent going through the "escape the room" portion was terrible. Everything else was pretty alright.
As was said- Average. Started good, went downhill to "Whhhhaaaat" with an OK ending in overall message.
At least they didn't actually try and bring Moriarty back. One misstep they didn't take. Even if they used him in ill to a lesser degree in other ways.
and I really disliked the video tape message by. . .idk was it anne? Watson's wife? She was not the right character to deliver that.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
The whole final scene felt very rushed IMO. Didn't help that the second episode had an extremely similar montage of mini cases too.
Something I was wondering about a timeline
Moriarty's visit with Eurus was Christmas Day, "five years ago" - so December 2011. The Reichenbach Fall and his death was aired in January 2012. Is the implication that he put the Reichenbach Fall episode into motion immediately after his meeting with her?
It makes his suicide a little less impactful if we're to assume he was programmed like everyone else. That was such a good "fuck you, I win!" that would fall apart if he was compelled to do it.
The whole final scene felt very rushed IMO. Didn't help that the second episode had an extremely similar montage of mini cases too.
Something I was wondering about a timeline
Moriarty's visit with Eurus was Christmas Day, "five years ago" - so December 2011. The Reichenbach Fall and his death was aired in January 2012. Is the implication that he put the Reichenbach Fall episode into motion immediately after his meeting with her?
It makes his suicide a little less impactful if we're to assume he was programmed like everyone else. That was such a good "fuck you, I win!" that would fall apart if he was compelled to do it.
I never got a 'she reprogrammed him' vibe from it. Mycroft left them alone for five minutes, and the reaction from Sherlock and John was 'Oh you moron, they could have cooked anything up together.' Jim already had his plan (pretty sure Reichenbach Fall made it look like he'd been setting it up for months), and she gave him a way to keep messing with Sherlock afterwards.
My only problem with it is it made him seem a lot less confident about his 'force Sherlock to kill himself plan'.
And a lot of the episodes have mini-case montages, I always figured that was just part of the show.
I like how over the entire series, Mycroft has no clue how to handle Mrs Hudson.
He can intimidate whoever else he wants (criminal geniuses notwithstanding), but every time he comes up against her, she kicks his ass.
Heck, I think she called him to pull rank on that cop because he was scared of her.
I totally accept that it will be garbage on rewatches, but it got me pretty good the first time. The stories have always been somewhat larger-than-life (with the exception maybe being "A Study in Pink"), so it didn't feel too contrived for me, especially when it turns out that the whole thing wasn't as perfectly orchestrated as it seemed. I enjoyed the finale more than I was expecting to. If it was in fact the SERIES finale, I feel it was a fairly decent send-off.
My god this season was terrible. Episode 2 was the best of the three, but that's not saying much. The best thing about this season was the trailer for it. It wouldn't be so bad if the end of Season 3 wasn't so "Oh boy!" If that was a series finale, what a limp to the end. If it's a season Moffat needs to step down.
That would be interesting, given that the DVD/BD release is on Monday, so they're already in distribution channels and there's somehow not been a leak of a packaging pic showing the secret fourth episode.
Unless it's so secret it's an Easter egg on the disc or something... that must be it!
Srsly though, the series' have all been three episodes each, why do these people think they'd change that now?
My god this season was terrible. Episode 2 was the best of the three, but that's not saying much. The best thing about this season was the trailer for it. It wouldn't be so bad if the end of Season 3 wasn't so "Oh boy!" If that was a series finale, what a limp to the end. If it's a season Moffat needs to step down.
This is kinda Moffat's show. Just cancel it. It must be pretty hard to schedule two big Hollywood stars anyway, why bother for falling ratings and quality?
Moffat seems to have seriously lost his oomph the last few years. Doctor Who and Sherlock have both been uninspiring. He's burned out for sure.
My god this season was terrible. Episode 2 was the best of the three, but that's not saying much. The best thing about this season was the trailer for it. It wouldn't be so bad if the end of Season 3 wasn't so "Oh boy!" If that was a series finale, what a limp to the end. If it's a season Moffat needs to step down.
This is kinda Moffat's show. Just cancel it. It must be pretty hard to schedule two big Hollywood stars anyway, why bother for falling ratings and quality?
Moffat seems to have seriously lost his oomph the last few years. Doctor Who and Sherlock have both been uninspiring. He's burned out for sure.
From what I've read about the behind the scenes on DW, it's a bit like the Star Wars prequels. A little too much freedom in how things got done. Not enough or the right people calling him on creative BS.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
Yeah, I think on reflection that it was pretty bad. My initial positive feelings on the first episode have paled as well. Second episode was good, though.
If they do any more, my revolutionary pitch is for someone to turn up to 221b and ask them to investigate a crime, and then they solve it in a clever way.
If they do any more, my revolutionary pitch is for someone to turn up to 221b and ask them to investigate a crime, and then they solve it in a clever way.
That's so boring, they only do it in a montage these days.
I'm not watching the next season if there is one, unless everyone says it is extremely good. This was terrible.
I liked the first episode because I assumed it set up a big mystery about Mary's identity and whether or not the scene in the aquarium was a plan. Now that I know that none of it is answered later, I like it a lot less.
The third episode is full of plot holes and I really can't understand some of the writers' decisions. They have said that they read the Sherlock Holmes stories and think of ways it can be improved or new fun ways to tell the story, but instead they made Saw featuring a villain who can move in and out of prison all she wants due to mind-control powers and can live her life freely but I guess just wants a hug from her brother and needed to construct an elaborate murder game to do so? It's weird that Moffatt and Gatiss were like "yep this is the Sherlock Holmes story we've always wanted to tell."
Episode 2 was good. But the complete failure to actually pay off episode 1 in any disernable way across the series means the series was two thirds rubbish. I don't get a lot of TV watching time these days so to have wasted 90 mins a pop on that pap irks me greatly.
he was high and in a death spiral in episode 2, and he had no good reason to recognise Eurus as Faith. Episode 3 was a big ol' revelatory meeting for him, and he was trying to pick apart her riddle about the violin. The glass was an irrelevant detail, so it's fair not to notice.
And did any viewers notice before him? I sure didn't!
Yeah, remember in Season 2 we learned Sherlock Holmes doesn't know the earth revolves around the sun. Because he doesn't care, because it's irrelevant information to the cases he's trying to solve.
I don't have other specific examples in mind right now, my feeling is that SH has been setup in the show as someone who's brilliant at whatever he focuses on, but stupidly blind to anything he's not focused on.
Same with this. It was an irrelevant detail to his current case, and went right by him.
Although it was all pretty far-fetched the bit that to me was the most ridiculous was
There is absolutely no way Euros would be able to imitate a 'normal' person, yet she was able to "be" both the therapist and the daughter of the villain in the last episode. 1) She's too batshit crazy and 2) She's never actually witnessed one.
Also I'd have liked to have seen some kind of demonstration of her vast intellect. She didn't actually outwit Sherlock at any point, she was more like a super villain who could control people.
Also, was the idea that in the 5 minutes she programmed Moriarty to do everything he ever did to Sherlock, or just to make those recordings? Or did he do them willingly? I noticed her mind control didn't work on Mycroft because he's so smart, so is it the same with Moriarty?
I disagree with you on the first one:
First of all, Euros was clearly free to come and go from the island as she pleased. We don't know how long she's been able to do this, but it's been years, maybe up to five years (the last time Mycroft can confirm she was in her cell and gave her the Moriarty present, which pushed the Governor to talk to her). So she had plenty of opportunities to see normal people. And both Sherlock and Mycroft have been shown to be masters of disguise thanks to their intellect, so I have no problem believing their considerably smarter sister is an even better master of disguise.
And to answer your second question, no she did not reprogram Moriarty, he's too smart for that, plus he was a willing and eager participant in any plan to fuck with Sherlock.
Also how did Episode 2 Guy meet Episode 3 Lady and give her the clue?
Who is Episode 2 Guy and what is the clue?
I'm assuming
episode 2 guy was the murderer.
The clue was that he wants to kill "anyone". It's initially presented as the daughter remembering a little bit of one of his confessions, later we find out that it was actually Eurus.
I don't think it's explained how she found out about the confessions or that the dude was a serial killer. I'm pretty sure it was totally ignored, not even handwaved with a "she's super smart, she can figure anything out!" throwaway line.
Also how did Episode 2 Guy meet Episode 3 Lady and give her the clue?
Who is Episode 2 Guy and what is the clue?
I'm assuming
episode 2 guy was the murderer.
The clue was that he wants to kill "anyone". It's initially presented as the daughter remembering a little bit of one of his confessions, later we find out that it was actually Eurus.
I don't think it's explained how she found out about the confessions or that the dude was a serial killer. I'm pretty sure it was totally ignored, not even handwaved with a "she's super smart, she can figure anything out!" throwaway line.
IIRC, at the end when Euros is taking off her therapist disguise, she mentions meeting and befriending daughter and getting the information from her. The flashbacks were true, daughter partially remembered things and wrote them down, and then she gave the paper to Euros who added the clues (the folding and tumbtack hole and light difference and of course the UV message) and met with Sherlock.
I didnt think the season was as bad as some of you are making it out to be. I think they may have written themselves into a corner with Mary (likely not expecting further seasons at the time), so they dealt with that, then wanted to do something new instead of mimicing an old Holmes story, and did the best they could...I think the problem is that they made Sherlock such a powerful predictor based on facts that they felt the only way to balance an enemy for him was to make someone as smart yet unpredictable as the Joker is as an enemy to cause mistakes.
Also how did Episode 2 Guy meet Episode 3 Lady and give her the clue?
Who is Episode 2 Guy and what is the clue?
I'm assuming
episode 2 guy was the murderer.
The clue was that he wants to kill "anyone". It's initially presented as the daughter remembering a little bit of one of his confessions, later we find out that it was actually Eurus.
I don't think it's explained how she found out about the confessions or that the dude was a serial killer. I'm pretty sure it was totally ignored, not even handwaved with a "she's super smart, she can figure anything out!" throwaway line.
IIRC, at the end when Euros is taking off her therapist disguise, she mentions meeting and befriending daughter and getting the information from her. The flashbacks were true, daughter partially remembered things and wrote them down, and then she gave the paper to Euros who added the clues (the folding and tumbtack hole and light difference and of course the UV message) and met with Sherlock.
I thought that Murderer took the paper from Daughter when he discovered her writing it?
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So much of this episode seemed all about creating tension in the moment, so it doesn't hold up to being watched a second time at all.
Re: the stakes of this episode
Well no they weren't fake-outs. They were just awful no-win scenarios. Which makes the stakes very low. Actually lower than actual stakes since they're more whims than rules. All of the time spent going through the "escape the room" portion was terrible. Everything else was pretty alright.
Something I was wondering about a timeline
It makes his suicide a little less impactful if we're to assume he was programmed like everyone else. That was such a good "fuck you, I win!" that would fall apart if he was compelled to do it.
My only problem with it is it made him seem a lot less confident about his 'force Sherlock to kill himself plan'.
And a lot of the episodes have mini-case montages, I always figured that was just part of the show.
He can intimidate whoever else he wants (criminal geniuses notwithstanding), but every time he comes up against her, she kicks his ass.
Heck, I think she called him to pull rank on that cop because he was scared of her.
Probably not true, but I'm enjoying the conspiracy theories nonetheless.
Unless it's so secret it's an Easter egg on the disc or something... that must be it!
Srsly though, the series' have all been three episodes each, why do these people think they'd change that now?
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This is kinda Moffat's show. Just cancel it. It must be pretty hard to schedule two big Hollywood stars anyway, why bother for falling ratings and quality?
Moffat seems to have seriously lost his oomph the last few years. Doctor Who and Sherlock have both been uninspiring. He's burned out for sure.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
From what I've read about the behind the scenes on DW, it's a bit like the Star Wars prequels. A little too much freedom in how things got done. Not enough or the right people calling him on creative BS.
I watched it two nights ago. I have thought about it and have decided it was utter fucking wank.
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
If they do any more, my revolutionary pitch is for someone to turn up to 221b and ask them to investigate a crime, and then they solve it in a clever way.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
That's so boring, they only do it in a montage these days.
I'm not watching the next season if there is one, unless everyone says it is extremely good. This was terrible.
The third episode is full of plot holes and I really can't understand some of the writers' decisions. They have said that they read the Sherlock Holmes stories and think of ways it can be improved or new fun ways to tell the story, but instead they made Saw featuring a villain who can move in and out of prison all she wants due to mind-control powers and can live her life freely but I guess just wants a hug from her brother and needed to construct an elaborate murder game to do so? It's weird that Moffatt and Gatiss were like "yep this is the Sherlock Holmes story we've always wanted to tell."
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
Yeah, remember in Season 2 we learned Sherlock Holmes doesn't know the earth revolves around the sun. Because he doesn't care, because it's irrelevant information to the cases he's trying to solve.
I don't have other specific examples in mind right now, my feeling is that SH has been setup in the show as someone who's brilliant at whatever he focuses on, but stupidly blind to anything he's not focused on.
Same with this. It was an irrelevant detail to his current case, and went right by him.
Who is Episode 2 Guy and what is the clue?
I disagree with you on the first one:
And to answer your second question, no she did not reprogram Moriarty, he's too smart for that, plus he was a willing and eager participant in any plan to fuck with Sherlock.
I'm assuming
The clue was that he wants to kill "anyone". It's initially presented as the daughter remembering a little bit of one of his confessions, later we find out that it was actually Eurus.
I don't think it's explained how she found out about the confessions or that the dude was a serial killer. I'm pretty sure it was totally ignored, not even handwaved with a "she's super smart, she can figure anything out!" throwaway line.