I don't see how that changes anything. If anything, it's more insulting. Yeah, people with social disorders are awkward and weird and have difficulty relating or empathizing with others. That's hard enough without people looking at them as jesters in the most medieval sense. Whether they knew that's what they were doing or not when they wrote the character, that's how it plays out.
What's your analysis of House and Sherlock?
The point of Sheldon is that he's awesome because he doesn't see himself limited by arbitrary social conventions. The appeal is that the audience often wishes that they could get away with the same thing.
House is an anti-social character with a drug addiction who is shown as struggling daily to relate to the few people he hasnt driven away. The show is a drama and he's a tragic character. Sherlock is much the same. You can't possibly compare a serious, if somewhat soap-opera take on a character to a one-dimensional clown who's sole purpose is "gosh, this guy's so weird, isn't that funny?
Wow, it sounds like you completely miss the entire point of the character.
I mean, do you really think your analysis is why the guy won two Emmy's and a golden globe for best actor. That doesn't happen because, "LOL, Weirdo!"
The fact that Two and a Half Men has won Outstanding Comedy Series on three occasions should cause most people to be wary with regards to the rubric used by the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.
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The fact that Jon Cryer has been nominated six times for Two and a Half Men and won one should tell you exactly how good a judge of talent the Emmys are.
By comparison, Steve Carrell was nominated five times for The Office and never won.
But really, the complaints about how he was written not exactly how he was acted
Do you really think he would win that consistently if the judges hated the writing?
The appeal of Sheldon is the same appeal as "3rd Rock From the Sun." A completely alien perspective on every day life, but one that makes perfect sense in its own way.
The other appeal is that the character is full of self-confidence, while still being completely innocent. i.e., he might be selfish and arrogant, but he's not manipulative or hateful. That's a rare combination.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
But really, the complaints about how he was written not exactly how he was acted
Do you really think he would win that consistently if the judges hated the writing?
The appeal of Sheldon is the same appeal as "3rd Rock From the Sun." A completely alien perspective on every day life, but one that makes perfect sense in its own way.
The other appeal is that the character is full of self-confidence, while still being completely innocent. i.e., he might be selfish and arrogant, but he's not manipulative or hateful. That's a rare combination.
From what I've seen he's contemptuous, which is pretty awful. I hate that character so much.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Anyway, Big Bang Theory relies on a laugh track for the same reason Community relies on music tracks. "OMG, what's with this music? Are the producers trying to tell me how to feel?"
It's just another technique. The difference is that Community takes its inspiration from movies, while BBT takes its inspiration from live theater.
I'm sorry, I still laugh at Chris Rock without the audience laughter.
I am saying that the audience of BBT are laughing at things that are not jokes. The actors have to stand still for a minute waiting for people to get over how hilarious the words "Nintendo 64" are.
Seinfeld had a laugh track too, but it was actually funny.
The intelligent, good looking people with good taste are arguing that BBT is the worst sitcom in history, and the people who have suffered severe head injuries and hate puppies, kittens, and America are arguing that maybe some aspects of the show are not so bad.
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
House is an anti-social character with a drug addiction who is shown as struggling daily to relate to the few people he hasnt driven away. The show is a drama and he's a tragic character. Sherlock is much the same. You can't possibly compare a serious, if somewhat soap-opera take on a character to a one-dimensional clown who's sole purpose is "gosh, this guy's so weird, isn't that funny?
I'm sorry, but trying to sum up the appeal of Sheldon Cooper as "what a weirdo, lol!" misses the entire point of the character. You may find the character weird, and that's fine. But you're assuming that the reason that you hate Sheldon Cooper is the same reason that other people love him. i.e., "I hate Sheldon Cooper because I find his behavior annoying, so obviously, the people who love Sheldon Cooper must find him annoying as well." And that doesn't make any sense.
When BBT first aired, I showed a friend of mine a clips of Sheldon's highlights. Her exact response was, "OMG, this show is so full of win!" Not, "Oh, what a stupid weirdo, hilarious!" You seem to assume that the appeal of Sheldon is the latter, when actually it's closer to the former.
From what I've seen on tumblr, there are a fair amount of ladies who'd like to bang Sheldon, so I guess that at least some amount of the show's fans aren't just watching to make fun of nerds.
When BBT first aired, I showed a friend of mine a clips of Sheldon's highlights. Her exact response was, "OMG, this show is so full of win!" Not, "Oh, what a stupid weirdo, hilarious!" You seem to assume that the appeal of Sheldon is the latter, when actually it's closer to the former.
Can I just say that, if someone's real life response was "full of win," they are already lost.
That clip posted of BBT without a laugh-track is notable because I actually smiled at alot of those bits. Not laughed, but at least it got something nice out of me. It's a show that is pleasant and safe and completely unchallenging to watch, and I can well imagine people coming home from the jobs they hate, to the family they 'don't want to have to deal with right now' so they can disengage their brains for 30 minutes before having to deal with reality again.
Can't say the same for 2 and a Half Men though. God I hate what i've seen of that show.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I guess I just wonder why "My mom sent me my old Nintendo 64 console!" got a laugh from the audience. If it's not a, "Omg, what a weirdo!" kind of laugh, what kind of laugh was it? Because there's nothing inherently funny about playing on an old console, that I can think of anyway. I mean if I could get my old Atari to work (my parents still have it), then I'd probably play one of the old games for nostalgia's sake. What is the joke, exactly?
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I guess I just wonder why "My mom sent me my old Nintendo 64 console!" got a laugh from the audience. If it's not a, "Omg, what a weirdo!" kind of laugh, what kind of laugh was it? Because there's nothing inherently funny about playing on an old console, that I can think of anyway. I mean if I could get my old Atari to work (my parents still have it), then I'd probably play one of the old games for nostalgia's sake. What is the joke, exactly?
Whenever a live studio audience appears on tv, that audience has usually been trained to laugh uproariously whenever a little sign above the seats lights up. If you don't laugh, then you get kicked out.
So yeah, the audience laughed because they were told to, not because it was a good joke.
The only shows I can think of that might not do this are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, which seem to encourage the audience to respond naturally based on the uneven reactions that jokes sometimes get.
I guess I just wonder why "My mom sent me my old Nintendo 64 console!" got a laugh from the audience. If it's not a, "Omg, what a weirdo!" kind of laugh, what kind of laugh was it? Because there's nothing inherently funny about playing on an old console, that I can think of anyway. I mean if I could get my old Atari to work (my parents still have it), then I'd probably play one of the old games for nostalgia's sake. What is the joke, exactly?
There is nothing funny about that or most of the "jokes" from the clip. A smiler or two... but the large majority of that clip just wasn't funny.
I guess I just wonder why "My mom sent me my old Nintendo 64 console!" got a laugh from the audience. If it's not a, "Omg, what a weirdo!" kind of laugh, what kind of laugh was it?
Do you associate all laughter with negativity or something?
They're probably just laughing because they recognize a setup and they're anticipating a punchline. Watch late night comedy, it happens all the time. "So in earlier today... (audience laughter) blah blah blah blah blah.
Or it could be that they're just laughing at nostalgia, like how people laugh at the mere mention of dysentary because they remember the Oregon Trail.
Or they could still be laughing over whatever scene came before Sheldon, and now they're just cooling down.
I guess I just wonder why "My mom sent me my old Nintendo 64 console!" got a laugh from the audience. If it's not a, "Omg, what a weirdo!" kind of laugh, what kind of laugh was it? Because there's nothing inherently funny about playing on an old console, that I can think of anyway. I mean if I could get my old Atari to work (my parents still have it), then I'd probably play one of the old games for nostalgia's sake. What is the joke, exactly?
There is nothing funny about that or most of the "jokes" from the clip. A smiler or two... but the large majority of that clip just wasn't funny.
There's a lot of clips from Community that aren't really funny if you take a random bit out of context and completely re-edit the audio.
I mean, I don't remember this episode, but based on the clip, Leonard is preparing for a date. So presumably, the scenes before that were setting up for a romantic interlude. Then Sheldon comes in out of nowhere, and interrupts with random bits of Nintendo 64. And then the audience finds humor in the basic misunderstanding between these two characters. Of course, Sheldon could have come in with anything, and the underlying joke would still be the same. They're not laughing at the Nintendo 64 itself, they're laughing because the Nintendo 64 sets up the miscommunication.
Obviously, if you're not invested in Leonard's situation, then you're going to read this scene differently than someone who is. But the same goes for Community. I can show my friends a scene that I find hilarious, and they have no idea what's going on, because they don't know who these characters are.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited March 2012
they're laughing because it's an old thing and a niche interest (that's my read)
if he had said 'my mom sent me the basketball from my 8th grade championship game' they'd have laughed too. it's not about being weird in a bad way.
there's several different pieces to this so here I go with my own outlook.
bbt is not remotely offensive. it's somewhat humorous (miles above two and a half men, in my book) and, I think, totally fair and fun in the way it jokes about nerds. it also shows that they are infinitely smarter than the people around them... not that anyone complains about that stereotype. Simply showing nerds in a comedy isn't the same as making fun of nerds. Sheldon is an eccentric genius, not a crippled obsessive. ditto house, that was a great comparison schrodinger. the friends are more weird than the main character which allows him to be 'weird' without us losing the ability to completely relate to him. you'll see that lots of tv/movies, although 'weirdness' won't always be the factor that's being dealt with.
I tyhink there's also an element, considering the forum we're on, that it's wrongwrongwrong to have a show where someone playing n64 at the age of 27 when they are a physicist and a genius is 'weird' or funny. it's not. it is funny, it's against the norm (as would being excited over the basketball from an 8th grade game)... it's also fine and the show doesn't judge them. in fact it says, they can do this and still be brilliant and healthy and socially able.
it isn't close to community in terms of quality. but then I think community is one of the best sitcoms of all time, like top 5.
it absolutely boggles my mind the obsession this thread has with bbt. we talk about it almost as much as community. and everytime it comes up someone posts a video without the laugh track, and it's equally meaningless each and every time. it doesn't prove anything except that if you remove something that influences the flow of the entire show, the show feels awkward. it doesn't prove the show isn't funny... that's not something you can prove. you can think it absolutely. clearly a lot of people here agree.
Why do we have to discuss BBT every month? We could be discussing how Abed was undercover hooker Jamie Lee Curtis from True Lies or Changs army or Dean Pelton jizzing his pants or that Britta's Michael Jackson was better than Troy's or what retards the kid's parents were for throwing him a party like that (mainly the awards) or Jeff starting his own Cougar Town.
Why do we have to discuss BBT every month? We could be discussing how Abed was undercover hooker Jamie Lee Curtis from True Lies or Changs army or Dean Pelton jizzing his pants or that Britta's Michael Jackson was better than Troy's or what retards the kid's parents were for throwing him a party like that (mainly the awards) or Jeff starting his own Cougar Town.
oh MAN, not only could I not recall he was brown jamie lee curtis until they said so in the ep, but I didn't even consider he was hot jamie lee curtis from true lies. AWESOME hahahaha.
I mean, I wouldn't go to a concert or anything, but sometimes I'm just working out and I need some music that is mindless, has a good driving beat and gets me pumped up.
Nickleback is good for that.
This doesn't equate to BBT at all to me. Honestly I've never found it the slightest bit funny so I just plain don't care about it. It does have bearing on Community though given the viewer overlap and being on at the same time, so it makes sense it would come up frequently. If Community got cancelled it'd be hard to not point fingers at it and I think someone would be hard pressed to adequately argue that BBT deserves the viewership it gets compared to Community.
If BBT wasn't in the same time slot, and if it wasn't vastly more popular, no one would bring it up.
That really it. Since as long as BBT and Community are in competition, they are going to be compared to each other. Even that wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that BBT is the most popular comedy in America.
Its top spot just feels unearned. It has stale plot, stereotype characters and goes for the cheap laugh every time.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I'm hard pressed to say nickelback deserves to have their music produced and marketed like it is while small time bands of quality are struggling to have anyone hear their music. but that's how things are. hating nickelback for it will only get you upset, like the kids who hated the backstreet boys growing up. I get where it comes from but you're not helping anyone, just ending up bothered by it and angry at a whole shitload of people.
I wish everyone only liked what I like but it's not the case. watch what you like, talk about it and spread the word if it doesn't have the benefit of being popular.
I dunno, this sounds dismissive of something I really do understand and definitely am guilty of from time to time. I'd just rather spend our time loving communtiy than hating bbt.
bbt is not remotely offensive. it's somewhat humorous (miles above two and a half men, in my book) and, I think, totally fair and fun in the way it jokes about nerds. it also shows that they are infinitely smarter than the people around them... not that anyone complains about that stereotype. Simply showing nerds in a comedy isn't the same as making fun of nerds. Sheldon is an eccentric genius, not a crippled obsessive. ditto house, that was a great comparison schrodinger. the friends are more weird than the main character which allows him to be 'weird' without us losing the ability to completely relate to him. you'll see that lots of tv/movies, although 'weirdness' won't always be the factor that's being dealt with.
Honestly, of all the reasons to criticize the show, I don't get the complaints about Sheldon. If they complained about Howard or Raj, I would understand that. But Sheldon? The guy has self-confidence that most audience members would kill for. His disregard for social norms provides perfect fodder for escapism. And he's also an unchanging rock, which gives people a feeling of stability. Sheldon Cooper the character (Not the show, just the character) has 8 million likes on Facebook. The entire show of Community has only 1.1 million likes. As a character, Sheldon basically humanizes the rest of the cast. Howard, Raj, and Leonard seem like intellectual lightweights by comparison, which makes them easier for the audience to relate to.
Quality wise, the show has its ups and down. The thing is, it's a really hard show to write. Community is a really experimental show that can try completely different things every week, but Big Bang Theory theory has to nail a consistent product about obscure subject matter and still find a way to keep it fresh. You also have to do it in a specific studio format, where they don't have as much control over editing and camera tricks. But at the same time, it's obviously a format that resonates with audiences, or else the show wouldn't be nearly as popular.
Basically, you have two ends of the spectrum. You have documentary style sitcoms, where you can basically cut to a talking head where the character is explaining the story directly, and where you can wrap everything up in a disconnected montage with dramatic music to make it seem poignant. And then you have shows like Big Bang Theory, where the editors have virtually no control and they're at the mercy of a live audience. Community is somewhere in between.
Its the way of the world that the best never get the recognition they deserve and the worst succeed without really trying.
The rub is: That if you don't demand better you are going to be stuck with the worst. Like Britta, or Nickelback, or Backstreet Boys and New Kids of the Block(yes, I am old enough to hate them). We deserve to be beaten by a better show then BBT.
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The fact that Two and a Half Men has won Outstanding Comedy Series on three occasions should cause most people to be wary with regards to the rubric used by the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.
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By comparison, Steve Carrell was nominated five times for The Office and never won.
"Calamitous", buddy. Your final grade is still a B+ for the mere appearance of a Venture Bros reference, though.
Not at all. In interviews, Jim Parsons is a really chatty, friendly guy.
Do you really think he would win that consistently if the judges hated the writing?
The appeal of Sheldon is the same appeal as "3rd Rock From the Sun." A completely alien perspective on every day life, but one that makes perfect sense in its own way.
The other appeal is that the character is full of self-confidence, while still being completely innocent. i.e., he might be selfish and arrogant, but he's not manipulative or hateful. That's a rare combination.
From what I've seen he's contemptuous, which is pretty awful. I hate that character so much.
It's just another technique. The difference is that Community takes its inspiration from movies, while BBT takes its inspiration from live theater.
I am saying that the audience of BBT are laughing at things that are not jokes. The actors have to stand still for a minute waiting for people to get over how hilarious the words "Nintendo 64" are.
Seinfeld had a laugh track too, but it was actually funny.
The intelligent, good looking people with good taste are arguing that BBT is the worst sitcom in history, and the people who have suffered severe head injuries and hate puppies, kittens, and America are arguing that maybe some aspects of the show are not so bad.
I mean his mannerisms and speaking style.
Wow... BBT would be much better as a soap opera.
Schrodinger is arguing that something can't be insulting if enough people like it.
Meanwhile, I'm regretting having risen to his bait, even though I know better.
Here's what I was responding to:
I'm sorry, but trying to sum up the appeal of Sheldon Cooper as "what a weirdo, lol!" misses the entire point of the character. You may find the character weird, and that's fine. But you're assuming that the reason that you hate Sheldon Cooper is the same reason that other people love him. i.e., "I hate Sheldon Cooper because I find his behavior annoying, so obviously, the people who love Sheldon Cooper must find him annoying as well." And that doesn't make any sense.
When BBT first aired, I showed a friend of mine a clips of Sheldon's highlights. Her exact response was, "OMG, this show is so full of win!" Not, "Oh, what a stupid weirdo, hilarious!" You seem to assume that the appeal of Sheldon is the latter, when actually it's closer to the former.
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Can I just say that, if someone's real life response was "full of win," they are already lost.
Can't say the same for 2 and a Half Men though. God I hate what i've seen of that show.
Whenever a live studio audience appears on tv, that audience has usually been trained to laugh uproariously whenever a little sign above the seats lights up. If you don't laugh, then you get kicked out.
So yeah, the audience laughed because they were told to, not because it was a good joke.
The only shows I can think of that might not do this are The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, which seem to encourage the audience to respond naturally based on the uneven reactions that jokes sometimes get.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
There is nothing funny about that or most of the "jokes" from the clip. A smiler or two... but the large majority of that clip just wasn't funny.
Do you associate all laughter with negativity or something?
They're probably just laughing because they recognize a setup and they're anticipating a punchline. Watch late night comedy, it happens all the time. "So in earlier today... (audience laughter) blah blah blah blah blah.
Or it could be that they're just laughing at nostalgia, like how people laugh at the mere mention of dysentary because they remember the Oregon Trail.
Or they could still be laughing over whatever scene came before Sheldon, and now they're just cooling down.
There's a lot of clips from Community that aren't really funny if you take a random bit out of context and completely re-edit the audio.
I mean, I don't remember this episode, but based on the clip, Leonard is preparing for a date. So presumably, the scenes before that were setting up for a romantic interlude. Then Sheldon comes in out of nowhere, and interrupts with random bits of Nintendo 64. And then the audience finds humor in the basic misunderstanding between these two characters. Of course, Sheldon could have come in with anything, and the underlying joke would still be the same. They're not laughing at the Nintendo 64 itself, they're laughing because the Nintendo 64 sets up the miscommunication.
Obviously, if you're not invested in Leonard's situation, then you're going to read this scene differently than someone who is. But the same goes for Community. I can show my friends a scene that I find hilarious, and they have no idea what's going on, because they don't know who these characters are.
if he had said 'my mom sent me the basketball from my 8th grade championship game' they'd have laughed too. it's not about being weird in a bad way.
there's several different pieces to this so here I go with my own outlook.
bbt is not remotely offensive. it's somewhat humorous (miles above two and a half men, in my book) and, I think, totally fair and fun in the way it jokes about nerds. it also shows that they are infinitely smarter than the people around them... not that anyone complains about that stereotype. Simply showing nerds in a comedy isn't the same as making fun of nerds. Sheldon is an eccentric genius, not a crippled obsessive. ditto house, that was a great comparison schrodinger. the friends are more weird than the main character which allows him to be 'weird' without us losing the ability to completely relate to him. you'll see that lots of tv/movies, although 'weirdness' won't always be the factor that's being dealt with.
I tyhink there's also an element, considering the forum we're on, that it's wrongwrongwrong to have a show where someone playing n64 at the age of 27 when they are a physicist and a genius is 'weird' or funny. it's not. it is funny, it's against the norm (as would being excited over the basketball from an 8th grade game)... it's also fine and the show doesn't judge them. in fact it says, they can do this and still be brilliant and healthy and socially able.
it isn't close to community in terms of quality. but then I think community is one of the best sitcoms of all time, like top 5.
it absolutely boggles my mind the obsession this thread has with bbt. we talk about it almost as much as community. and everytime it comes up someone posts a video without the laugh track, and it's equally meaningless each and every time. it doesn't prove anything except that if you remove something that influences the flow of the entire show, the show feels awkward. it doesn't prove the show isn't funny... that's not something you can prove. you can think it absolutely. clearly a lot of people here agree.
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oh MAN, not only could I not recall he was brown jamie lee curtis until they said so in the ep, but I didn't even consider he was hot jamie lee curtis from true lies. AWESOME hahahaha.
Honestly, it just strikes me as sour grapes.
If BBT wasn't in the same time slot, and if it wasn't vastly more popular, no one would bring it up.
Just like Nickelback is so infuriating because it is horrible and yet somehow popular.
I mean, I wouldn't go to a concert or anything, but sometimes I'm just working out and I need some music that is mindless, has a good driving beat and gets me pumped up.
Nickleback is good for that.
This doesn't equate to BBT at all to me. Honestly I've never found it the slightest bit funny so I just plain don't care about it. It does have bearing on Community though given the viewer overlap and being on at the same time, so it makes sense it would come up frequently. If Community got cancelled it'd be hard to not point fingers at it and I think someone would be hard pressed to adequately argue that BBT deserves the viewership it gets compared to Community.
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That really it. Since as long as BBT and Community are in competition, they are going to be compared to each other. Even that wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that BBT is the most popular comedy in America.
Its top spot just feels unearned. It has stale plot, stereotype characters and goes for the cheap laugh every time.
I wish everyone only liked what I like but it's not the case. watch what you like, talk about it and spread the word if it doesn't have the benefit of being popular.
I dunno, this sounds dismissive of something I really do understand and definitely am guilty of from time to time. I'd just rather spend our time loving communtiy than hating bbt.
Honestly, of all the reasons to criticize the show, I don't get the complaints about Sheldon. If they complained about Howard or Raj, I would understand that. But Sheldon? The guy has self-confidence that most audience members would kill for. His disregard for social norms provides perfect fodder for escapism. And he's also an unchanging rock, which gives people a feeling of stability. Sheldon Cooper the character (Not the show, just the character) has 8 million likes on Facebook. The entire show of Community has only 1.1 million likes. As a character, Sheldon basically humanizes the rest of the cast. Howard, Raj, and Leonard seem like intellectual lightweights by comparison, which makes them easier for the audience to relate to.
Quality wise, the show has its ups and down. The thing is, it's a really hard show to write. Community is a really experimental show that can try completely different things every week, but Big Bang Theory theory has to nail a consistent product about obscure subject matter and still find a way to keep it fresh. You also have to do it in a specific studio format, where they don't have as much control over editing and camera tricks. But at the same time, it's obviously a format that resonates with audiences, or else the show wouldn't be nearly as popular.
Basically, you have two ends of the spectrum. You have documentary style sitcoms, where you can basically cut to a talking head where the character is explaining the story directly, and where you can wrap everything up in a disconnected montage with dramatic music to make it seem poignant. And then you have shows like Big Bang Theory, where the editors have virtually no control and they're at the mercy of a live audience. Community is somewhere in between.
The rub is: That if you don't demand better you are going to be stuck with the worst. Like Britta, or Nickelback, or Backstreet Boys and New Kids of the Block(yes, I am old enough to hate them). We deserve to be beaten by a better show then BBT.