Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

[SW:TOR] Tanks like spanking.

11719212223

Posts

  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    So, let's talk about how to be effective in PvP.

    How does a tank maximize their effectiveness in a PvP situation? (aside from running the ball in Huttball.) I mean, in terms of actually helping in a fight.

    For example, I'm leveling a Merc Healer right now and if I get 200K+ healing, our team probably won. 300k+ and it's a blowout. I can accept that healing is just a more critical PvP role, but I'd really like to feel that I was making a difference on my tank assassin (my main character).

    As it is right now, I LOVE PvP on my healer and am bored of it on my tank.

    Thoughts?

    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Taunt, guard, CC... those are the main things.

    Giving the DPS and Healers that extra mitigation to help them kill the other team.

    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote:
    So, let's talk about how to be effective in PvP.

    How does a tank maximize their effectiveness in a PvP situation? (aside from running the ball in Huttball.) I mean, in terms of actually helping in a fight.

    For example, I'm leveling a Merc Healer right now and if I get 200K+ healing, our team probably won. 300k+ and it's a blowout. I can accept that healing is just a more critical PvP role, but I'd really like to feel that I was making a difference on my tank assassin (my main character).

    As it is right now, I LOVE PvP on my healer and am bored of it on my tank.

    Thoughts?

    Well, if you're playing the tank, find the healer that is doing what you were doing as a healer.

    Put Guard on them. Taunt enemies that attack them.

    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • BeltaineBeltaine BOO BOO DOO DE DOORegistered User regular
    I started a Powertank alt this weekend and... I think I am in love.

    I haven't tanked in an MMO since I played a Tankadin pre-WOTLK. I forgot how much fun it was.

    XdDBi4F.jpg
    PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Beltaine wrote:
    I started a Powertank alt this weekend and... I think I am in love.

    I haven't tanked in an MMO since I played a Tankadin pre-WOTLK. I forgot how much fun it was.

    I've been having an itch to shelve the Juggy to make a Powertank because I keep reading that it's like a Tankadin, which I played from the ICC era until I quit WoW on Dec 13th and loved the shit out of.

    Of course, then I will have 2 BHs.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote:
    Derrick wrote:
    So, let's talk about how to be effective in PvP.

    How does a tank maximize their effectiveness in a PvP situation? (aside from running the ball in Huttball.) I mean, in terms of actually helping in a fight.

    For example, I'm leveling a Merc Healer right now and if I get 200K+ healing, our team probably won. 300k+ and it's a blowout. I can accept that healing is just a more critical PvP role, but I'd really like to feel that I was making a difference on my tank assassin (my main character).

    As it is right now, I LOVE PvP on my healer and am bored of it on my tank.

    Thoughts?

    Well, if you're playing the tank, find the healer that is doing what you were doing as a healer.

    Put Guard on them. Taunt enemies that attack them.

    I do that already, but the guard numbers aren't highly significant.

    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Beltaine wrote:
    I started a Powertank alt this weekend and... I think I am in love.

    I haven't tanked in an MMO since I played a Tankadin pre-WOTLK. I forgot how much fun it was.

    I've been having an itch to shelve the Juggy to make a Powertank because I keep reading that it's like a Tankadin, which I played from the ICC era until I quit WoW on Dec 13th and loved the shit out of.

    Of course, then I will have 2 BHs.

    Eh, I don't know that I would say it plays like a tankadin. Some of the defining stuff about tankadins (for me) were captain america shield throw, hammer of the righteous, and the shield slam. I don't feel like there are equivalent skills on a PT. Then again, several of the important abilities I use while tanking (only level 41 atm) are on shortish (15s and under) cooldowns, so it's kind of a whack-a-mole, priority system playstyle. In that sense, I could see it being called similar. Juggling that against the heat bar does keep me pretty engaged and I'm still trying to find the balance there.

    However, while it may not play a ton like one, it's got a similar aesthetic in the 'frontline dude in the suit of armor' feel. Also, it plays like awesome, so don't let me comments deter you. While I would love to roll all three tanks (and probably will), I'd be hard pressed to give up either jet charge or grapple. Shuryoken will be fun forever, as will Death from Above. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the 'feel' of the flame abilities (maybe if I had higher graphics settings), but they can't all be winners, I guess.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Derrick wrote:
    Maddoc wrote:
    Derrick wrote:
    So, let's talk about how to be effective in PvP.

    How does a tank maximize their effectiveness in a PvP situation? (aside from running the ball in Huttball.) I mean, in terms of actually helping in a fight.

    For example, I'm leveling a Merc Healer right now and if I get 200K+ healing, our team probably won. 300k+ and it's a blowout. I can accept that healing is just a more critical PvP role, but I'd really like to feel that I was making a difference on my tank assassin (my main character).

    As it is right now, I LOVE PvP on my healer and am bored of it on my tank.

    Thoughts?

    Well, if you're playing the tank, find the healer that is doing what you were doing as a healer.

    Put Guard on them. Taunt enemies that attack them.

    I do that already, but the guard numbers aren't highly significant.

    I've had plenty of matches where I(Guardian tank) have done almost 150k damage and had 70k+ protection. You won't see the raw numbers of like 400k+ healing done, but your effect on the battle is just as big or bigger. If you spend your whole match guarding a healer, and make great use of your CC abilities, you can really turn the tide of a battle. Force push a healer away from the action to let your team burn somebody, stun somebody, use stasis on somebody else, etc. But the most important thing is to keep your taunts on CD at all times on people who aren't attacking you. Use your snare(the aoe one if you're a guard/jugg) to limit the mobility of the other team's melee.

  • BeltaineBeltaine BOO BOO DOO DE DOORegistered User regular
    Powertank really is nothing like a Tankadin other than it being sort of a non-traditional type tank. I can get right up in a mob's face if I want, or I can tank perfectly well from 10-20 meters back. That's the beauty of it.

    XdDBi4F.jpg
    PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote:
    Beltaine wrote:
    I started a Powertank alt this weekend and... I think I am in love.

    I haven't tanked in an MMO since I played a Tankadin pre-WOTLK. I forgot how much fun it was.

    I've been having an itch to shelve the Juggy to make a Powertank because I keep reading that it's like a Tankadin, which I played from the ICC era until I quit WoW on Dec 13th and loved the shit out of.

    Of course, then I will have 2 BHs.

    Eh, I don't know that I would say it plays like a tankadin. Some of the defining stuff about tankadins (for me) were captain america shield throw, hammer of the righteous, and the shield slam. I don't feel like there are equivalent skills on a PT.

    I think what makes the PT/Vanguard feel "paladinish" is the fact that they have a lot more aoe threat abilities than the Guardian/Jugg. Death from Above/Mortar Volley are great openers when you need aoe threat. you also have a nice frontal cone in the flamethrower/volt thrower abilities.

    So far my PT is only 24 and my Van is lower, so no idea if that continues to hold true at later levels. My Guardian though is 50 and while aoe threat has become easier with Cyclonic, upgraded Sweeps, and Challenging Call, a lot of those were things which the class doesn't have until much later down the road.

    As far as sturdiness goes, I'd give it to the Guardian from what I've seen so far, but I definitely don't feel squishy on my PT or Van.

  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I would sacrifice so many orphans if they would change Jugg's Saber Throw to hit 3 targets like Avenger's Shield.

    And several orphan puppies if Sweeping Slash didn't use rage and instead generated it.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    Those would both be changes I would support. Should you choose to run in a Primary, you have my vote.

  • BeltaineBeltaine BOO BOO DOO DE DOORegistered User regular
    Was there ever any sort of shield-type device implemented in the Star Wars EU?

    I mean a sword'n'board Jedi/Sith just screams awesome.

    XdDBi4F.jpg
    PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    I dunno, maybe I'm too used to tanking in the WoW style, but it seems like I can never get aggro on everything in a pull. I feel like it's a constant scramble on my PT. I just got Jet Charge, which has helped, but it's weird to tag everything at range...maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    Beltaine wrote:
    Was there ever any sort of shield-type device implemented in the Star Wars EU?

    I mean a sword'n'board Jedi/Sith just screams awesome.

    Not really. About the closest you got was Luke in some of the EU books using a shorter lightsaber (think wakizashi) in a daisho style. Supposedly the shorter one was used only for defense.

    And then in KoTOR you had the personal shield generators, which is basically what our toons use now.

  • InvisibleInvisible Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Didn't the Gungans have laser-shields in Episode 1?

    Edit: Yeah
    GunganPersonalShield.jpg

    Invisible on
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Beltaine wrote:
    Powertank really is nothing like a Tankadin other than it being sort of a non-traditional type tank. I can get right up in a mob's face if I want, or I can tank perfectly well from 10-20 meters back. That's the beauty of it.

    Just have to agree with this. There are a ton of fights where ranged tanking can completely eliminate some of the worst issues. Bonus boss in BT that does his bullshit uninterruptable knockdown? No prob, just stand 10m back. Bosses that drop aoe shit on the ground with a melee heavy group? No prob, just run around using instants. Boss enraged? Kite like mad, strafe + shoot.

    I have had some healers complaining that we don't have as many damage reduction cooldowns as other tanks (which is true), so PTs seem to be much more gear dependent than the other tanks (so expect some messiness early on). But the flexibility really makes it a fun tank to play imo.

    Also, as I've learned many times at this point, while Jet Pack is awesome, be careful not to jump on that pack of mobs around the corner of the corridor while your healer is hanging back. LOS is a cruel mistress.
    Toothy wrote:
    I dunno, maybe I'm too used to tanking in the WoW style, but it seems like I can never get aggro on everything in a pull. I feel like it's a constant scramble on my PT. I just got Jet Charge, which has helped, but it's weird to tag everything at range...maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
    If you just got Jet Charge, you're probably still missing some key abilities (Flame sweep, carbonize) for aoe. Explosive dart and death from above are good openers to get some damage. Flamethrower is nice if you can line the guys up as well. Other than that, a lot of tab targeting and shoot works pretty well to get the stragglers on you. A key point I've heard repeated a lot is to change your WoW mindset as well: the tank is not expected to pick up every single mob in the pull. Silver and higher is for the tank (I pretty much only grab golds now that the DPS I run with are better geared), anything else is fine for the DPS to pick up as long as its not actively beating on the healer.

    eMoander on
    Xbox: Travesty 0214 3DS: 5000-2906-6782 Switch: 3304-2356-9421
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    eMoander wrote:
    Toothy wrote:
    I dunno, maybe I'm too used to tanking in the WoW style, but it seems like I can never get aggro on everything in a pull. I feel like it's a constant scramble on my PT. I just got Jet Charge, which has helped, but it's weird to tag everything at range...maybe I'm just doing it wrong.
    If you just got Jet Charge, you're probably still missing some key abilities (Flame sweep, carbonize) for aoe. Explosive dart and death from above are good openers to get some damage. Flamethrower is nice if you can line the guys up as well. Other than that, a lot of tab targeting and shoot works pretty well to get the stragglers on you. A key point I've heard repeated a lot is to change your WoW mindset as well: the tank is not expected to pick up every single mob in the pull. Silver and higher is for the tank (I pretty much only grab golds now that the DPS I run with are better geared), anything else is fine for the DPS to pick up as long as its not actively beating on the healer.

    True. Smart dps will also be stunning the silvers so it won't tax the healer at all.




    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    So when you try to get aggro on people, what attacks do you use from range? It seems like it's always the ranged guys who're being drug off of me. Maybe it's just due to not being max level and having weird gear on. Most of my stuff has crit, which is worthless.

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    What I do in PvP:

    Guard a Healer, and stay close to that healer where you can.
    AoE Taunt every big clash, 90% of players do not realize the cause of the damage reduction they just ate. 6 seconds of your side not dieing as much is huge.
    Smoke Grenade (for Vanguards at least) every clash too, -20% accuracy for 18s is huge and again noone notices.
    Taunt who you think is doing big damage (especially to your healer), and stun where you think the opposition healers are.
    Try to identify squishy targets. You won't solo them fast, but if you hit 30% of someones health chances are some other dude will notice it as an easy kill and go after it.
    Try to be aware of AoE chances. So often PvP ends up pulling a bunch of people in bunches.
    Often hitting some dude makes them fight you. This is hilarious with Warriors and Snipers, because they have to deal with all your mitigation. Unfairest fights in the world.
    Delay pointlosses. I pop my defensive cooldowns most often in a lost situation. Either delaying until reinforcements, or give who died the chance to respawn and go do something else. Having 3-5 people try to beat you down while you AoE around a point, while a teammate is capping another empty point is hilarious.

    The other stuff is more general PvP I guess:
    Watch the minimap where your team is, and your raid healthbars. In Voidstar it's critical to notice if one side suddenly people die and go empty. If you are guarding a side in Alderaan, you can often see incoming combat before it's reported just by noticing that people on the other side are suddenly moving a lot more, or energy/healthmeters are depleting.
    Talk talk talk. Reporting where enemies are, who is the healer on the opposite team wins so many games.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    Toothy wrote:
    So when you try to get aggro on people, what attacks do you use from range? It seems like it's always the ranged guys who're being drug off of me. Maybe it's just due to not being max level and having weird gear on. Most of my stuff has crit, which is worthless.

    Unload and rail shot are probably the best ranged aggro (aside from the trivial answer of taunt, of course). However, you'll want to keep the ones you're actually tanking fairly close for flame burst, rocket punch, etc.

    Again, this probably goes to the 'don't sweat the regular guys' advice. If it's just the normal ranged guys that are getting pulled off you, then don't worry about it. If there's two silvers 30 yards apart or something, I usually jet pack to one, then either grapple one over to you (assuming you have the skill already) or alternate close range attacks on one and only regular shots/unload on the other. It may help to tell your dps to focus fire on your close one in that situation as well, since there's no way the healer should be pulling off you if you're actively hitting something.

    As a hypothetical, take a 5 pull with 2 golds, 1 silver and 2 normals. Assuming no cc, I'd open with a death from above to try to get at least the 2 normals and one of the stronger ones depending on positioning. Then explosive dart a gold that wasn't in the DoA radius, jet pack to the last gold, rocket punch, then grapple the darted gold (which should have exploded by now) so you have at least the two golds right on top of each other. You'll have at least initial aggro over the healer on the two normals, so you can just ignore them as the dps pick them off. The only one to worry about in this scenario would be the silver which you can taunt/ranged occasionally if the dps are slow at burning it down.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 3DS: 5000-2906-6782 Switch: 3304-2356-9421
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    Alright, I guess it's more just I need to level and position better.

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Yeah, dps is quickly learning that they should work their way up the foodchain. Normals, silvers, golds.
    I really like opening up with my big AoE on bigger pulls, either cc'ing something on the side or doing CC after the AoE. That 2k damage should keep the healer safe for a long time.
    If the silver mobs are far apart and ranged pulling them together is nice.
    Of course it all depends, some abilities have cooldowns longer than a single pull and sometimes you are really fighting for threat.
    I definitely guard a dps nowadays, not the healer. -25% threat on a dps is way more important.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • LawndartLawndart Registered User regular
    I would sacrifice so many orphans if they would change Jugg's Saber Throw to hit 3 targets like Avenger's Shield.

    I would heartily support this change not for any functional reasons, but simply because it'd look really cool.

    Maybe Saber Throw could be learned earlier but each new level would add an additional target hit.

  • DarcsteelDarcsteel Wildcard NC United StatesRegistered User regular
    SanderJK wrote:
    Yeah, dps is quickly learning that they should work their way up the foodchain. Normals, silvers, golds.
    I really like opening up with my big AoE on bigger pulls, either cc'ing something on the side or doing CC after the AoE. That 2k damage should keep the healer safe for a long time.
    If the silver mobs are far apart and ranged pulling them together is nice.
    Of course it all depends, some abilities have cooldowns longer than a single pull and sometimes you are really fighting for threat.
    I definitely guard a dps nowadays, not the healer. -25% threat on a dps is way more important.


    As a DPS I appreciate the Guard and I've noticed that myself it's better for the DPS to start small and work up.
    I'm starting a PT alt and I was wondering can I still tank effectively with the advanced tech tree or do I need to stay in the shield tech tree?

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    I think Guard definitely needs to have the full 30 yard range, though.

    EDIT: I mean, how dumb is it that you can CAST it on someone from 30 yards away, but it's only active if they're <15 yards?

    Javen on
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Javen wrote:
    I think Guard definitely needs to have the full 30 yard range, though.

    EDIT: I mean, how dumb is it that you can CAST it on someone from 30 yards away, but it's only active if they're <15 yards?

    I agree, if for no other reason than the guy I usually run 4 mans with who is more likely to pull agro is ranged, and it's stupid that if I want to guard him he has to dps from 15 meters. I have a feeling the limited range is for its pvp use which might be a little too strong at 30m.

    Joshmvii on
  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote:
    I definitely guard a dps nowadays, not the healer. -25% threat on a dps is way more important.

    It also tends to make more sense for Guardian/Juggernaut tanks ... healers don't usually like to be close enough to the mob to be in range of Guard. Maybe a Vanguard/Powertech could stand far enough away from a mob to make it work with healers, but no dice for the melee tanks.

    On top of that, everything I've read says TOR has the same melee v. ranged threat thresholds (ie, 110% to steal for melee, 130% for ranged) so keeping threat lower on melee seems more prudent.

  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    Darcsteel wrote:
    SanderJK wrote:
    Yeah, dps is quickly learning that they should work their way up the foodchain. Normals, silvers, golds.
    I really like opening up with my big AoE on bigger pulls, either cc'ing something on the side or doing CC after the AoE. That 2k damage should keep the healer safe for a long time.
    If the silver mobs are far apart and ranged pulling them together is nice.
    Of course it all depends, some abilities have cooldowns longer than a single pull and sometimes you are really fighting for threat.
    I definitely guard a dps nowadays, not the healer. -25% threat on a dps is way more important.


    As a DPS I appreciate the Guard and I've noticed that myself it's better for the DPS to start small and work up.
    I'm starting a PT alt and I was wondering can I still tank effectively with the advanced tech tree or do I need to stay in the shield tech tree?

    I never really tried the advanced tech tree, but I would assume you'd be fine as long as you kept ion cylinder on for the big armor buff. That being said, leveling as shield tech was really easy using Mako as a pocket healer.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 3DS: 5000-2906-6782 Switch: 3304-2356-9421
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    Hmm, I might have to reconsider my opinion on Rakata itemization for Guardians after running a comparison with Columi. Considering only the 5 set pieces of each set (mainly because you can get much better crafted gear for belt and armguards with augment slots):

    Rakata
    3659 Armor, 495 Strength, 620 Endurance, 153 Accuracy, 171 Defense, 114 Absorption, 102 Surge

    Columi
    3554 Armor, 465 Strength, 580 Endurance, 192 Shield, 212 Defense, 48 Accuracy, 53 Absorption

    For a difference of Rakata over Columi of:

    +105 Armor
    +30 Strength
    +40 Endurance (+400 HP)
    +105 Accuracy
    +61 Absorption
    +102 Surge
    -192 Shield
    -41 Defense

    That Defense Rating difference can be made up using 2 level 50 Augments and the rest of the stats are a straight upgrade. The main kicker here is the absolute shit-kicking that Shield Rating gets. Man I wish that Surge was replaced with Shield as I still have no idea why you'd bother giving Guardians Surge as a secondary stat. Most, if not all, of our threat generation is coming from Strength.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    I can't find a clear answer to this:
    What is the hitcap for tech abilities in ops?

    I know tech abilities don't go versus defenses but they do help against resists, do raidbosses have a 10% innate resist? I found some referenes but nothing certain.

    What I have found is that npcs look at distance when considering to switch targets, 110% for melee 130% for ranged. This means that a rdps or healer can be at 120% threat, some game mechanic gets him closer to the boss, and it'll switch.
    This explains the rather strange behavior of the second boss of Maelstrom HM two days ago, where he would switch targets during eye mode for no apparent reason, and aggro melee dps going on to dps during eye mode so very fast.

    Other questions:
    Is there any kind of threat decay as a standard mechanic? (Heard references, haven't seen a definitive answer)

    What exactly does taunt do? I found a reference that it sets the tank equal to the top threat, which would mean is that it's very advantageous to constantly taunt in a fight where there is no decay, because if at that point anyone is between 100% and 110% you gain all that threat. This seems to fit my anecdotal evidence that bosses seem to much more easily turn during the beginning of a fight than later on.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Aegis wrote:
    Hmm, I might have to reconsider my opinion on Rakata itemization for Guardians after running a comparison with Columi. Considering only the 5 set pieces of each set (mainly because you can get much better crafted gear for belt and armguards with augment slots):

    Rakata
    3659 Armor, 495 Strength, 620 Endurance, 153 Accuracy, 171 Defense, 114 Absorption, 102 Surge

    Columi
    3554 Armor, 465 Strength, 580 Endurance, 192 Shield, 212 Defense, 48 Accuracy, 53 Absorption

    For a difference of Rakata over Columi of:

    +105 Armor
    +30 Strength
    +40 Endurance (+400 HP)
    +105 Accuracy
    +61 Absorption
    +102 Surge
    -192 Shield
    -41 Defense

    That Defense Rating difference can be made up using 2 level 50 Augments and the rest of the stats are a straight upgrade. The main kicker here is the absolute shit-kicking that Shield Rating gets. Man I wish that Surge was replaced with Shield as I still have no idea why you'd bother giving Guardians Surge as a secondary stat. Most, if not all, of our threat generation is coming from Strength.

    Just remod stuff.

    When I got the few rakata pieces that have surge, I put the mod from the previous columi piece in it. Once a duplicate rakata piece dropped without surge, I took those mods out and put them over the columi ones. Eventually a full rakata set can have all level 58 mods with no surge at all if you do that.

    If the theorycrafters are right, I wouldn't worry about shield rating that much. Can always swap around a few mods to fix that as well.

    Either they totally fucked up on some of the tier gears stats, or they want you to just grind more gear and swap around mods. An example of this is the rakata weapon vs columi. Rakata weapon has level 51 mod, which are total shit compared to columi, the only thing rakata weapons are good for it stripping the red-black crystal out since it has 41 endurance on it.

    Badwrong on
    Steam: Badwrong || Xbox: Duncan Dohnuts || PSN: Buc_wild

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited January 2012
    The leading powertech/vanguard theory does seem to indicate that +shield is the worst talent point for point average mitigation, with the strange order +absorb, +defense, +shield with some pretty clear gaps. Though the diminishing returns do muddy the waters. Calculations are here:
    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=123306


    A secondary outcome is that +surge is the best +threat stat.
    Didn't expect that.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2012
    Badwrong wrote:
    Either they totally fucked up on some of the tier gears stats, or they want you to just grind more gear and swap around mods. An example of this is the rakata weapon vs columi. Rakata weapon has level 51 mod, which are total shit compared to columi, the only thing rakata weapons are good for it stripping the red-black crystal out since it has 41 endurance on it.

    I'm pretty sure they want us to grind out repeats and swap mods. Dps gear has the same problem with some enhancements and mods having heavy endurance instead of more dps stats.

    One dps enhancement is 38 end, 48 acc, 19 power, while another is 23 end, 48 acc, 34 power.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • eMoandereMoander Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote:
    The leading powertech/vanguard theory does seem to indicate that +shield is the worst talent point for point average mitigation, with the strange order +absorb, +defense, +shield with some pretty clear gaps. Though the diminishing returns do muddy the waters. Calculations are here:
    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=123306


    A secondary outcome is that +surge is the best +threat stat.
    Didn't expect that.

    I just grabbed the spreadsheet and started working though it, but the reason the order is so weird is that the default gear he is working with has high defense (so its starting to get capped), moderately high shield rating, and low absorb. Therefore, shield rating looks like it ranks poorly because with the current absorb it doesn't mitigate much damage, while absorb looks great because the shield procs relatively frequently at those stats. Interesting that defense ranks as high as it does even when being capped. This also doesn't take into account that shield rating increases several of our abilities that trigger on shield proc, making it a decent threat stat as well.

    Haven't looked at why surge is so high, but I'm willing to put money that its similar to above, where the default setup has high crit rate, but low surge.

    Xbox: Travesty 0214 3DS: 5000-2906-6782 Switch: 3304-2356-9421
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Anecdotally speaking, Surge would also benefit from the talents that provide a natural increase to crit rate on certain abilities (Shuriyoken, for one). Since that ability has a naturally high crit rate, adding crit provides less benefit than adding surge. I also suspect that surge may be slightly better than Bioware realized when they were budgeting the gear, but I have no proof of that whatsoever. Just a hunch, because the multiplier seems to move quite well.

  • ArrynArryn Ask not the Innkeeper For destiny is thy name!Registered User regular
    eMoander wrote:
    This also doesn't take into account that shield rating increases several of our abilities that trigger on shield proc, making it a decent threat stat as well.

    The OP in that thread actually does address the shield proc further down in the first couple of posts. Their determination is that the shield proc really doesn't have enough of an affect to worry about.

    Whether or not that's true, I can't say, but that's their conclusion.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote:
    Anecdotally speaking, Surge would also benefit from the talents that provide a natural increase to crit rate on certain abilities (Shuriyoken, for one). Since that ability has a naturally high crit rate, adding crit provides less benefit than adding surge. I also suspect that surge may be slightly better than Bioware realized when they were budgeting the gear, but I have no proof of that whatsoever. Just a hunch, because the multiplier seems to move quite well.

    Pet Peeve Time.

    It's Shoryuken.

    Sho, as in "Shotokan Karate", the fictional style practiced by Ken, Ryu, and others.
    Ryu, as in the dude in the white gi.
    Ken, as in the dude in the red gi.

    You will now never forget how to spell it; and knowing is half the battle! ;-)

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Houn wrote:
    Bobble wrote:
    Anecdotally speaking, Surge would also benefit from the talents that provide a natural increase to crit rate on certain abilities (Shuriyoken, for one). Since that ability has a naturally high crit rate, adding crit provides less benefit than adding surge. I also suspect that surge may be slightly better than Bioware realized when they were budgeting the gear, but I have no proof of that whatsoever. Just a hunch, because the multiplier seems to move quite well.

    Pet Peeve Time.

    It's Shoryuken.

    Sho, as in "Shotokan Karate", the fictional style practiced by Ken, Ryu, and others.
    Ryu, as in the dude in the white gi.
    Ken, as in the dude in the red gi.

    You will now never forget how to spell it; and knowing is half the battle! ;-)

    Thank you! I've wondered about it, and I've probably seen half a dozen variations on this forum alone.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    So in the BH story I just
    Got an e-mail from Juda wishing I was dead and blaming me for them not having cash. I can not for the life of me figure out what she's talking about.

Sign In or Register to comment.