We hardly ever ran UAVs in Black Ops, so that defense doesn't fly with me, either. Most of us ran higher kill streaks and would be fighting to call in the next Blackbird.
Look, all I'm saying is Assassin should not counter UAVs, Counter-UAVs, thermal scopes, Heartbeat Sensors, Portable Radars, crosshairs, and an EMP. That is a list of immunity that is too long. You not being able to determine their numbers just because you don't run a UAV does not shorten that large list. And why would the majority of the community run Hardline or Quickdraw on a non-Specialist build, the only other two decent perks in that tier, when Assassin has so many more passive bonuses? They don't. They run Assassin. Just because I'm not screaming into my mic every five minutes about them doesn't mean they shouldn't be given some tweaks.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
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joshgotroDeviled EggThe Land of REAL CHILIRegistered Userregular
So as long as you don't see them, they don't exist?
does it?
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
But Brutle, that's an illusion of a solution. Their abundance and power does not go away just because a UAV is a less popular streak choice.
I don't want people to not use Assassin. I just don't want them to have a huge laundry list of incredible bonuses to the point where you may as well not use anything but Assassin.
it's a perceived value thing. If a person has the perception that there are less things that hard-counter a thing, the value of that thing is reduced regardless of whether its actual effectiveness has changed.
But Brutle, that's an illusion of a solution. Their abundance and power does not go away just because a UAV is a less popular streak choice.
I don't want people to not use Assassin. I just don't want them to have a huge laundry list of incredible bonuses to the point where you may as well not use anything but Assassin.
it's a perceived value thing. If a person has the perception that there are less things that hard-counter a thing, the value of that thing is reduced regardless of whether its actual effectiveness has changed.
This is supposing that more thought goes into the average COD player's choice of perks than "LOL U CANT C ME "
We hardly ever ran UAVs in Black Ops, so that defense doesn't fly with me, either. Most of us ran higher kill streaks and would be fighting to call in the next Blackbird.
Look, all I'm saying is Assassin should not counter UAVs, Counter-UAVs, thermal scopes, Heartbeat Sensors, Portable Radars, crosshairs, and an EMP. That is a list of immunity that is too long. You not being able to determine their numbers just because you don't run a UAV does not shorten that large list.
First things first. Top 5 killstreaks (for me) in blops:
1 UAV 3409
2 Napalm 996
3 Blackbird 855
4 CUAV 708
5 Skillbox 344
UAV was called in more than the next 5 and a half killstreaks combined.
Secondaly, Assassin doesn't counter EMP, it counters half of the EMP. The not-very-important-part of the EMP.
Third, I bet if you gave people the option of Blop's ghost, or MW3s assassin, in MW3, the majority would pick ghost. Assassin losing Blind Eye's ability was a huge hit to the perks effectiveness.
Assassin was balanced by, stacking killstreaks removing some of the CUAV/UAV spam, removing blind eye, and making Hardline super good.
IW did a great job with the perk list, in my opinion, maybe even the most balanced perk list yet.
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TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
edited February 2012
Leveling up the Javelin. the map is Arkaden. I start the game off on the side with the destroyed statue and the wall. Immediately take out the Javelin, aim just outside of the back left corner. Triple kill. I run up get in a firefight, and wind up dying. Respawn in the same spot..Another Javelin..and another Triple Kill... Migrating Host
Alright , game starts back up and I die because apparently there was an enemy right beside me when the host left. Respawn..kill that guy...Another Javelin... Double Kill. Migrating Host
So as long as you don't see them, they don't exist?
*puts on Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses*
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
edited February 2012
Another way to get the host to jump ship is on Dome. If you start on the top half. Fire the Javelin at the blue shipping crate. Causes it to drop right in the middle of their starting spawn. From the bottom of the hill aim at the piece of a fuel tank you can see by the fence. It's not as likely to get a kill though. Top half is definitely better.
And why would the majority of the community run Hardline or Quickdraw on a non-Specialist build, the only other two decent perks in that tier, when Assassin has so many more passive bonuses? They don't. They run Assassin. Just because I'm not screaming into my mic every five minutes about them doesn't mean they shouldn't be given some tweaks.
I, generally, see more than 3 dots every time a UAV/AUAV is up, so I don't think a majority of the community runs assassin. Plurality? Maybe, but I'd doubt that. I have 1 or 2 assassin classes, and 8 or 9 Hardline classes, personally speaking, obv.
Look, all I'm saying is Assassin should not counter UAVs, Counter-UAVs, thermal scopes, Heartbeat Sensors, Portable Radars, crosshairs, and an EMP. That is a list of immunity that is too long. You not being able to determine their numbers just because you don't run a UAV does not shorten that large list.
Yes, it really does. Ghosts were so annoying because you knew, instantly, when you died to one because it was where you didn't expect it to be. It was because of their immunity to killstreaks/UAV that made ghosts annoying. It wasn't their 'other' bonus of not having their red names pop up, or it not telling you when sopmeone was capping a point. Those 'other' bonuses are not the annoying part of Ghost.
Are the 'other' bonuses too much in MW3? Yeah, probably. But since I literally have NO way of knowing if the guy who killed me was being immune to a CUAV, him being immune to the CUAV has no effect on me. I don't know it happened, I can't know it happened, thus it didn't happen, from my specific frame of reference.
Also I'm posting off some janky library Internet that is still better then mine somehow with 43 people all on it right now. Just to say that you forgot tuba/Minty
iRevert on
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
I don't think I count as current PA CoD player since I've played about an hour of MW2 since the release of MW3.
Xbox Live - Minty D Vision Steam - Minty D. Vision! Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
Yes, it really does. Ghosts were so annoying because you knew, instantly, when you died to one because it was where you didn't expect it to be. It was because of their immunity to killstreaks/UAV that made ghosts annoying. It wasn't their 'other' bonus of not having their red names pop up, or it not telling you when sopmeone was capping a point. Those 'other' bonuses are not the annoying part of Ghost.
Are the 'other' bonuses too much in MW3? Yeah, probably. But since I literally have NO way of knowing if the guy who killed me was being immune to a CUAV, him being immune to the CUAV has no effect on me. I don't know it happened, I can't know it happened, thus it didn't happen, from my specific frame of reference.
I'm not really disagreeing with you. Ghosts annoyed me more than Assassins, too. It sucked and removing Blind Eye was a good idea, though I would have liked Blind Eye to have been in the same perk slot. But it gained new immunities, and I dislike that the same things that countered Ghost were rendered ineffective to Assassins. It has no decent counters. Making it less evident on your screen, less annoying, doesn't make it less effective or abundant, and I just want a few more ways to punch a hole through that incredible defense to their and my radar. A few tweaks to it would not hurt the game.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Killstreaks likely won't stack in Black Ops, which is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. That will take the edge off of Hardline (which I think is at a great place from a design perspective right now). Ghost was only a problem in Black Ops because Stopping Power and Juggernaut were removed, and it just naturally rose to one of the most viable first-tier perks. I don't so much blame Treyarch for it, because it's a perk that was never "overpowered" in the previous editions of the game, but it definitely showed a lack of foresight on their part. Infinity Ward's decision to amp up Ghost even further just seems ... ridiculous, to be honest. They made a good call splitting it up into Blind Eye and Assassin, but players can still have both, and they're more powerful now than Ghost ever was.
Assassin needs to be tweaked. It's incredibly over-used, and incredibly over-powered. Especially given that the other Tier 2 perks in MW3 are pretty underwhelming (Hardline excluded): Quickdraw has its uses, especially for quickscopers, but I feel like the whole "draw up faster" thing was better kept as part of Sleight of Hand, but that's just my opinion. Blast Shield is a joke. It could have been amazing, but it doesn't protect the user from explosives as much as Flak Jacket did, and it doesn't reduce the effects of tactical grenades as much as Tactical Mask Pro. I've been killed at full health by grenades while trying to take objectives, and I hadn't taken any other damage at all. So what's the point? And what's the point of Overkill, really? You want a second primary? Just use an FMG9, like everybody else.
Bottom line is that Assassin / Ghost needs to be addressed. And I'm happy to hear that it will be.
Also, just went 39-1 on Dome and still didn't get a MOAB. Meh. I was 39-0 until, like the last 10 seconds of the match. I decided just to go balls out and rush into the enemy spawn to try and get the last few kills I needed for a MOAB, and I got shat on with like, pretty much 1 second left in the match, lol. Fucking weak.
[Assassin's] incredibly over-used, and incredibly under-powered.
What?
It is neither over-used nor under-powered.
I've yet to see a team using soley assassin, whereas games like that were common in blops. I generally see 1-3 guys per team using assassin. That is the same way it was in CoD4 and [email protected] and MW2. That is pretty much "How it should be" Is Hardline better? Yeah, probably for most people, it is. So was stopping power. Neither of the above statements means Assassin/Camouflage/UAV Jammer is under-powered.
Assassin is incredibly overpowered, and if you haven't seen entire enemy teams running it, then you must not watch kill cams ... or un UAVs ... or pay much attention at all. Because it's fucking everywhere.
I don't know why I'm even bothering to try and explain. Brutle takes up ridiculous positions just to be difficult. And it's a dumb conversation anyway, because the people who matter (Treyarch), know it needs to be changed, and are already working to make that happen.
Trying from a different angle, since I was actually curious as to what you thought of my "Stacking killstreaks is what limits assassin use/power" cause I know you dislike ghosts, but also dislike stacking kilstreaks.
Milk Ducks;
Which do you think was used by a greater % of players, Ghost or Assassin?
If given the choice which would you pick to have in any game, Ghost or Assassin?
I posit that the answers to these questions show that ghost is both more used, and more powerful than assassin.
Edit: @Vacorsis; Yes. Hardline is better than Assassin. Is this even up for debate? I hate it when I accidentily pick my one assassin class, cause I'm all "OG, where's my reaper?" after I get 4 kills.
I haven't been keeping tabs on the whole conversation, but the only other person that I can remember saying he didn't think Assassin was an issue also said he didn't know what "stacking killstreaks" meant. And I've already said I'm done arguing about the subject. The people who matter most agree that it's an issue, and that's all that matters. Feel free to keep it up, but do me a favor, and at least keep the arguments real; we all know that Assassin/Blind Eye-users account for more than just 1/6 players on a squad. Every time I call in an Osprey Gunner, I have to just fire at open ground and hope for hit markers, because ain't nobody gots dem red boxes.
Hardline is an offensive perk. Assassin is a defensive one. I like to play more cautiously than you (OG) do, so lately I've been using Assassin with my suppressed builds. But you know what, it's a matter of opinion and personal taste. I do like Hardline, though. I use it on my "fuck it" and Specialist builds.
Dashui on
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
How about this Vacorsis; (since Milk Duck'll just say he is obviously better than me and he hates me so he won't dignify the peons with a response) since we (we being collective for the PA CoD players/people posting in this thread) can't agree on which is more powerful between Assassin and Hardline, perhaps neither is over-powered?
Hardline isn't overpowered. I like its new changes. And you already know my opinion about Assassin - I think its overpowered, though not so much as Ghost, and I'd like to see them both only protect users against UAVs. The Pro version can keep red crosshair removal.
Also I am indeed the only person that matters, for I am the GOD KING. My opinion is law!
In this thread: people who don't read my posts, then jump to wild accusations of elitism. I assume you guys didn't read the post I made before that last one? The one where I said:
because the people who matter (Treyarch), know it needs to be changed, and are already working to make that happen.
I specifically made it a point to indicate that I was talking about the developers in that post, and not myself. So I figured it was okay to skip it in the next. I figured wrong, I guess.
It's cool, though. I remember when I had my first beer.
Posts
Look, all I'm saying is Assassin should not counter UAVs, Counter-UAVs, thermal scopes, Heartbeat Sensors, Portable Radars, crosshairs, and an EMP. That is a list of immunity that is too long. You not being able to determine their numbers just because you don't run a UAV does not shorten that large list. And why would the majority of the community run Hardline or Quickdraw on a non-Specialist build, the only other two decent perks in that tier, when Assassin has so many more passive bonuses? They don't. They run Assassin. Just because I'm not screaming into my mic every five minutes about them doesn't mean they shouldn't be given some tweaks.
it's a perceived value thing. If a person has the perception that there are less things that hard-counter a thing, the value of that thing is reduced regardless of whether its actual effectiveness has changed.
This is supposing that more thought goes into the average COD player's choice of perks than "LOL U CANT C ME
First things first. Top 5 killstreaks (for me) in blops:
1 UAV 3409
2 Napalm 996
3 Blackbird 855
4 CUAV 708
5 Skillbox 344
UAV was called in more than the next 5 and a half killstreaks combined.
Secondaly, Assassin doesn't counter EMP, it counters half of the EMP. The not-very-important-part of the EMP.
Third, I bet if you gave people the option of Blop's ghost, or MW3s assassin, in MW3, the majority would pick ghost. Assassin losing Blind Eye's ability was a huge hit to the perks effectiveness.
Assassin was balanced by, stacking killstreaks removing some of the CUAV/UAV spam, removing blind eye, and making Hardline super good.
IW did a great job with the perk list, in my opinion, maybe even the most balanced perk list yet.
Migrating Host
Alright , game starts back up and I die because apparently there was an enemy right beside me when the host left. Respawn..kill that guy...Another Javelin... Double Kill.
Migrating Host
In MW2/3: You get a pred at 5 kills -- you kill 3 people with pred, you now have 8 kills towards your next killstreak. (Stacking)
In Blops: You get a pred at 5 kills -- you kill 3 people with pred, you still have 5 kills towards your next killstreak. (Non Stacking)
Also TTODewbeck's post makes me miss the days of clan JVLN
*puts on Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses*
We don't spawn at the "low score" spawn.
I, generally, see more than 3 dots every time a UAV/AUAV is up, so I don't think a majority of the community runs assassin. Plurality? Maybe, but I'd doubt that. I have 1 or 2 assassin classes, and 8 or 9 Hardline classes, personally speaking, obv.
Yes, it really does. Ghosts were so annoying because you knew, instantly, when you died to one because it was where you didn't expect it to be. It was because of their immunity to killstreaks/UAV that made ghosts annoying. It wasn't their 'other' bonus of not having their red names pop up, or it not telling you when sopmeone was capping a point. Those 'other' bonuses are not the annoying part of Ghost.
Are the 'other' bonuses too much in MW3? Yeah, probably. But since I literally have NO way of knowing if the guy who killed me was being immune to a CUAV, him being immune to the CUAV has no effect on me. I don't know it happened, I can't know it happened, thus it didn't happen, from my specific frame of reference.
Teeheehee
Minty/tuba are missing from the list.
Also I'm posting off some janky library Internet that is still better then mine somehow with 43 people all on it right now. Just to say that you forgot tuba/Minty
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
I'm not really disagreeing with you. Ghosts annoyed me more than Assassins, too. It sucked and removing Blind Eye was a good idea, though I would have liked Blind Eye to have been in the same perk slot. But it gained new immunities, and I dislike that the same things that countered Ghost were rendered ineffective to Assassins. It has no decent counters. Making it less evident on your screen, less annoying, doesn't make it less effective or abundant, and I just want a few more ways to punch a hole through that incredible defense to their and my radar. A few tweaks to it would not hurt the game.
Podcast WHORING: Episodes 2-8 (Thanks Zonghui)
Assassin needs to be tweaked. It's incredibly over-used, and incredibly over-powered. Especially given that the other Tier 2 perks in MW3 are pretty underwhelming (Hardline excluded): Quickdraw has its uses, especially for quickscopers, but I feel like the whole "draw up faster" thing was better kept as part of Sleight of Hand, but that's just my opinion. Blast Shield is a joke. It could have been amazing, but it doesn't protect the user from explosives as much as Flak Jacket did, and it doesn't reduce the effects of tactical grenades as much as Tactical Mask Pro. I've been killed at full health by grenades while trying to take objectives, and I hadn't taken any other damage at all. So what's the point? And what's the point of Overkill, really? You want a second primary? Just use an FMG9, like everybody else.
Bottom line is that Assassin / Ghost needs to be addressed. And I'm happy to hear that it will be.
Also, just went 39-1 on Dome and still didn't get a MOAB. Meh. I was 39-0 until, like the last 10 seconds of the match. I decided just to go balls out and rush into the enemy spawn to try and get the last few kills I needed for a MOAB, and I got shat on with like, pretty much 1 second left in the match, lol. Fucking weak.
What?
It is neither over-used nor under-powered.
I've yet to see a team using soley assassin, whereas games like that were common in blops. I generally see 1-3 guys per team using assassin. That is the same way it was in CoD4 and [email protected] and MW2. That is pretty much "How it should be" Is Hardline better? Yeah, probably for most people, it is. So was stopping power. Neither of the above statements means Assassin/Camouflage/UAV Jammer is under-powered.
I'll change that.
I don't know why I'm even bothering to try and explain. Brutle takes up ridiculous positions just to be difficult. And it's a dumb conversation anyway, because the people who matter (Treyarch), know it needs to be changed, and are already working to make that happen.
The majority of the games have >5 dots.
Assassin is not over used.
Assassin might be over-powered, but it is worse than Hardline, sooo.....
And there have been like 3 people that have agreed with me in this already, so no I'm not "taking a ridiculous position just to be difficult"
Milk Ducks;
Which do you think was used by a greater % of players, Ghost or Assassin?
If given the choice which would you pick to have in any game, Ghost or Assassin?
I posit that the answers to these questions show that ghost is both more used, and more powerful than assassin.
Edit: @Vacorsis; Yes. Hardline is better than Assassin. Is this even up for debate? I hate it when I accidentily pick my one assassin class, cause I'm all "OG, where's my reaper?" after I get 4 kills.
It's easily better than assassin.
The winner of this duel shall be determined by old-fashioned pugilism!
hardline pro is better.
Anyway.
God I love this guy.
Silly goose, or silliest goose?
You do understand that people don't spawn with red boxes, even when they aren't running Assassin Blind-Eye, right?
And that Blind-Eye and Assassin aren't the same thing, right?
Also I am indeed the only person that matters, for I am the GOD KING. My opinion is law!
(I just wanted an excuse to post that.)
I specifically made it a point to indicate that I was talking about the developers in that post, and not myself. So I figured it was okay to skip it in the next. I figured wrong, I guess.
It's cool, though. I remember when I had my first beer.
Or should I say people that read every post and get all cry baby about it, then make wild accusations of drunkenness?