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[Call of Duty] Old Thread Is Old Use New Thread

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Posts

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Dashui wrote:
    Hardline isn't overpowered. I like its new changes. And you already know my opinion about Assassin - I think its overpowered, though not so much as Ghost, and I'd like to see them both only protect users against UAVs.

    I like Hardline the way it is now, too. It's taken a few games to get it right, but I think they've finally reached a good balancing point for that perk.

    It's really impossible to compare Assassin and Ghost side-by-side, or to answer the question, "Which would you rather have?", because they exist in two completely different environments. Ghost was incredibly annoying, but Blackbirds were hard counters. Our team has SR-71's up at least 50% of the game, so fuck your Ghost. No such counter exists in MW3, and Assassin is a much more comprehensive stealth option. Ghost protected you from UAVs and certain streaks, but you could still be picked up on Motion Sensors, and by other forms of detection. That's really not the case with Assassin -- the only way to know whether or not there's an Assassin around is to get eyes on target.

    Neither perk is perfectly balanced, but I prefer the environment that surrounded Ghost more than the one that surrounds Assassin. In Black Ops, I had ways to easily circumvent the perk, which was incredibly abundant. Even just running Counter UAVs, you know? I ran CUAVs for a long time, specifically to screw over Ghosts. If they're determined to make my minimap useless, then hell, I can do the same to them.

    Players don't really have that option in MW3, because the perk that keeps them off of my minimap also completely protects theirs.

    Again, it's hard to directly compare the two perks, because they exist in completely different environments.

    milk ducks on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Recon perk/Recon drone both counter assassins.

  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I pretty much always ran Counter-UAVs in Black Ops. If they were going to make my radar useless, well Goddammit I'd make theirs useless, too. I also felt they helped me reach my higher kill streaks.

    Anyway, I'm just glad it sounds like Treyarch will be addressing those Ghost/Assassin issues. I'm really looking forward to their next release.

    Brutletoy wrote:
    Recon perk/Recon drone both counter assassins.

    Yeah, but no one uses them, and they only help you if you can actively target/hit enemy players. I actually like Recon, though, but I prefer using Scavenger or Sleight of Hand more.

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    milk ducks wrote:
    Dashui wrote:
    Hardline isn't overpowered. I like its new changes. And you already know my opinion about Assassin - I think its overpowered, though not so much as Ghost, and I'd like to see them both only protect users against UAVs.

    I like Hardline the way it is now, too. It's taken a few games to get it right, but I think they've finally reached a good balancing point for that perk.

    It's really impossible to compare Assassin and Ghost side-by-side, or to answer the question, "Which would you rather have?", because they exist in two completely different environments. Ghost was incredibly annoying, but Blackbirds were hard counters. Our team has SR-71's up at least 50% of the game, so fuck your Ghost. No such counter exists in MW3, and Assassin is a much more comprehensive stealth option. Ghost protected you from UAVs and certain streaks, but you could still be picked up on Motion Sensors, and by other forms of detection. That's really not the case with Assassin -- the only way to know whether or not there's an Assassin around is to get eyes on target.

    Motion Sensors, Camera Spikes and thermal optics could not detect Ghost Pro users in BlOps.

    Edit: Whoops, Hacker Pro was the one that rendered Motion Sensors useless.

    Sirialis on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I run recon perk.

    And you can't claim there are no counters if there are in fact counters, just ones you don't want to use.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Sure, and I was one of the people who really felt like Recon was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but in actual practice, it isn't worth much; you can't restock explosives or tactical grenades with Scavenger anymore, so you can check like, one corner / room per life, and then you're down to just relying on straight up bullet damage to paint the target. And it's hard to paint a guy with bullets when they're laying prone in some tall grass, and you can't see them in the first place.

    Recon Drone's nice and all, but I have two issues with it: the first is that it takes me off the battlefield. Having eyes in the sky is cool, but the majority of the time, I'm just tagging people who are on their way into the fight, anyway. My squad appreciates the heads up, I'm sure, but it's not a tremendous help in the grand scheme of things. The other issue is that it's only available in Support. And I like Support, but I run Assault the majority of the time.

    Compare either of those things to the SR-71 Blackbird, which was a no-questions-asked, "I can see you" streak that couldn't be shot down or mitigated in any way other than to toss up a Counter UAV.

    [edit]I do like Recon, though. It's one of the things I'd like to see carried on to the next game, with some adjustments made to the overall functionality.

    milk ducks on
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Sirialis wrote:
    Edit: Whoops, Hacker Pro was the one that rendered Motion Sensors useless.

    You got to it before I could. :P

  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Burtletoy wrote:
    I run recon perk.

    And you can't claim there are no counters if there are in fact counters, just ones you don't want to use.

    I never claimed there were no counters. :P

    I said there were no decent, comparable counters like the ones in Black Ops. They took what worked against Ghost and made Assassin immune to them and gave us a rarely used, not nearly as effective alternative instead.

    5Sgmv.jpg

    I will claim your firstborn child as my prize and raise him to hate all that is Brutletoy. He will think of me as Father, not knowing who you really are. And when he slays you on the battlefield and looks down upon your cold, mutilated body in the mud, I shall tell him the truth.

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Dashui wrote:
    They took what worked against Ghost and made Assassin immune to them and gave us a rarely used, not nearly as effective alternative instead.

    Vacorsis hit it pretty much directly on the head.

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    But they also took away half of the ghost perk and split it into another perk.

    And they significantly reduced the number of UAVs making assassin less obnoxious

  • dinoarusdinoarus Registered User regular
    They made assassin immune to blackbirds.
    Then they made assassin vulnerable to EVERY offensive killstreak in the game. Which are much easier to get than blackbirds.

    Steam/XBL: OGSTudbone
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I'm considering just not running the Osprey Gunner anymore. Half the time, it gets shot down before I can even drop the payload. I wouldn't mind so much, if I could actually damage the enemy team, but they've given players some kind of bonus health or limited invincibility against air support after spawning. I know this for a fact, even though I can't find any information about it online, because sometimes it makes me hover directly over the enemy team, and I can literally see them beneath me, aiming Stingers up, but I can't score any kills. It just feels like hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit, flares, hit-hit-hit-kill, lock-on, hit-hit-hit-hit, down.

    I may just start running Juggernaut, instead. It'll prevent me from ever scoring a MOAB, but at least it won't feel like a complete waste of time.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited February 2012
    If Blind Eye was competing for the same perk slot, maybe that argument would hold some water.

    milk ducks on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote:
    I'm considering just not running the Osprey Gunner anymore. Half the time, it gets shot down before I can even drop the payload. I wouldn't mind so much, if I could actually damage the enemy team, but they've given players some kind of bonus health or limited invincibility against air support after spawning. I know this for a fact, even though I can't find any information about it online, because sometimes it makes me hover directly over the enemy team, and I can literally see them beneath me, aiming Stingers up, but I can't score any kills. It just feels like hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit-hit, flares, hit-hit-hit-kill, lock-on, hit-hit-hit-hit, down.

    I may just start running Juggernaut, instead. It'll prevent me from ever scoring a MOAB, but at least it won't feel like a complete waste of time.

    300% health to killstreaks for 4sec, I believe.

    Maybe it's 300% BONUS health, making it 400%.

    Dunno

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I get the idea behind the protection, and I even sort of agree with it, but it's just really frustrating right now, and it gives players little-to-no incentive to reach for those higher kill streaks. It's sort of a coin flip, really: sometimes I call it in, and absolutely wreck; othertimes, I'm down before I can even drop my packages. I'd say it's close to 50/50. I feel like the fact that players don't generate a red square to target for a few seconds after spawning is a fair amount of protection, all by itself. To have 4-5 times as much health in addition to that is just overkill.

    There's added frustration involved, because most of the time, I can actually see the people underneath me, and there's nothing I can do about it. I can see the guy searching for me, pull out his Stinger, and lock on, all while I'm absolutely tearing into him with fully-automatic fire from one of the highest assault streaks in the game. And he's tanking it like he just blew fucking shield wall.

    Maybe a solution would be to grant top-tier streaks like the Osprey additional flares, so it takes more than just one guy with a Stinger to take it down? I don't know, but I don't feel like it's at a good balancing point right now. There's just not a lot of incentive to run those streaks, when you can get more consistent performance with middle, or even low-tier streaks.

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote:
    There's added frustration involved, because most of the time, I can actually see the people underneath me, and there's nothing I can do about it. I can see the guy searching for me, pull out his Stinger, and lock on, all while I'm absolutely tearing into him with fully-automatic fire from one of the highest assault streaks in the game. And he's tanking it like he just blew fucking shield wall.

    Yup.

    I made the same complaint a long time ago.

    It's pretty fucking annoying having literally no options oter than the watch yourself get shot down.

  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    crap, i hate it when i come late to an argument.

    i'll say that I agree that assassin is overpowered, and I'd love to see it only make you immune to the UAV. CUAVs would still block them, and blackbirds would still pick them up. I will say this though, and im sure it wont be popular opinion: i kind of think the blackbird is overpowered. everything in these games has a counter. that counter is not always ideal, but it exists. the only counter to the blackbird is a CUAV, which few people run, and it can be shot down in seconds, while the blackbird cant. dont get me wrong, I love the blackbird, and whenever one goes up I know im gonna have a nice streak, but thats just how I feel about it.

    yes, recon is a counter to assassin, but as someone who's been using it a lot, I can say that it was a more useful perk on paper than it turned out to be. you only get 2 flashes and a grenade per life making the pro version a grind to get, recon only picks people up if the explosion was right next to them, and pubbies never check their maps so they never even see that bright red arrow walking behind them.

    with all that being said, im happy they split blind eye and assassin into 2 perks. I'd like to see them split it into 3, so that if you really wanna be a bitch stealth clown, you have to sacrifice every perk slot. I also love hardline pro, I use it on most of my assault and specialist classes. I have 2 assault SMG classes, one has assassin and one has hardline. whenever I have to switch to assassin because of the UAV spam I get frustrated cuz having a UAV at 2 kills pretty much rocks.

    finally. brutle, if youre really saying that you hardly run into lobbies where more than 1 person is using assassin, I choose to believe you, but I will say that I have never once had that experience. I routinely get into lobbies where everyone on the other team is running assassin, and I'd know cuz I run UAV on almost all of my classes. and we both play alone a lot, so i'd love to get into some of your lobbies. :)

    I'm glad treyarch is looking to tweak the perk(s), and im pretty confident that they're learning not only from their mistakes, but from IW's as well. One of the best things about MW3 is its perk balance (i think we can all pretty much agree on that), and i'd like to see that continue into the next games.

    PSN: DW_Drummer22
    XBL: MightyManotaur
    PA: TheSecretSeventh
    wait....
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    I said I generally don't run into lobbies where half or more of the enemy team is using assassin, not that only one person uses it. I said most games have 1-3 assassins on the other team, which is about where it should be.

    And I don't play alone anymore. This isn't blops.

    Edit: An addition, from what me and vacorsis were talking about on Steam.

    Just because you only die to assassins doesn't mean that the entire enemy team is running assassin. Doesn't even mean the majority of the enemies are using assassin.

    Burtletoy on
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote:
    I said I generally don't run into lobbies where half or more of the enemy team is using assassin, not that only one person uses it. I said most games have 1-3 assassins on the other team, which is about where it should be.

    And I don't play alone anymore. This isn't blops.

    Edit: An addition, from what me and vacorsis were talking about on Steam.

    Just because you only die to assassins doesn't mean that the entire enemy team is running assassin. Doesn't even mean the majority of the enemies are using assassin.

    yeah but when you call in a UAV and no one shows up, it pretty safe to assume everyone is using assassin. but you have some good points and i respect your opinion so im not gonna argue with you. (like some people) :rotate:

    PSN: DW_Drummer22
    XBL: MightyManotaur
    PA: TheSecretSeventh
    wait....
  • jonny439jonny439 Registered User regular
    I don't even care about perks with the overpowered akimbo secondaries, type 95, and increased ease of quick scoping you certainly don't need any perk to do well or at least annoy your opponents.

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    Burtletoy wrote:
    I said I generally don't run into lobbies where half or more of the enemy team is using assassin, not that only one person uses it. I said most games have 1-3 assassins on the other team, which is about where it should be.

    And I don't play alone anymore. This isn't blops.

    Edit: An addition, from what me and vacorsis were talking about on Steam.

    Just because you only die to assassins doesn't mean that the entire enemy team is running assassin. Doesn't even mean the majority of the enemies are using assassin.

    yeah but when you call in a UAV and no one shows up, it pretty safe to assume everyone is using assassin. but you have some good points and i respect your opinion so im not gonna argue with you. (like some people) :rotate:

    I literally have never seen that outside of blops.

    I mean, I remember one game on Downturn there were only 2 non-assassin guys! Which meant, the majority of the time the UAV passed over there was only 1 dot (and one dead non-assassin)

    But that is the closest I have seen.

    Not counting games where everyone rage quits except 1 or 2 people, both of which happen to be using assassin, cause I don't want to count those :P

    Edit: I hope you guys know that me disagreeing with you and arguing with you doesn't mean I don't respect your opinions (except for some people)

    Burtletoy on
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    not to turn into a Mod, but you and ducks need to chill out sometimes, you guys can get pretty heated and its kind of annoying.

    we're all passionate about our call of duty, and rarely do our opinions match up exactly, but its nice to have debates (not arguments) about our differing opinions. brutle, you tend to be suuuuper sarcastic (which I can appreciate cuz im like that IRL) and sometimes it feels like you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. not a judgement, thats just how it seems.

    so yeah.
    MW3 is a bad game, but we're all dumb enough to keep playing it. some of us are even dumb enough to convince ourselves that we're having fun.

    PSN: DW_Drummer22
    XBL: MightyManotaur
    PA: TheSecretSeventh
    wait....
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    Assassin sure is a hot topic suddenly...

    Its kind of funny though, I mean... none of it matters. Its very rare that we lose a match when there's a PA group going, and all the PA guys (not me) have crazy KDRs by the end of the match too.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    In MW3 you never run into a group of pubbies who are all using assassin, but you would run into that in Blops. Some clans may all run Assassin, but it's nowhere near as prevalent as it was in Blops. Blind Eye seems more common, but splitting ghost into two perks makes it seem less annoying, and the person is sacrificing much better perks.

    I agree with Brutle that hardline is the best second perk and outside of my anti-air class and dropzone class it's on every class. 8 out of 10 rock hardline because it's phenomenal.

    MW3's real problem is the Type-95 and akimbo FMG-9s.

  • KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    I'd have to agree with Brutle that less than 50% of players are running Assassin. I run UAV the vast majority of the time because i usually play solo due to my odd hours, and UAV at least sometimes improves the play of my pubbie teammates. Anyway, games when more than 2-3 enemies are running Assassin are rare. I've only played 2 games thus far in MW3 where an entire team ran Assassin - I definitely saw more than that with whole teams running ghost in Blops, despite playing less games in Blops than I have in MW3.

    It really isn't as bad as Ghost was in Blops. Partially because of Blind Eye being split off, and moreso because camping is way less prevalent in MW3 due to the increased routes of access throughout most maps.

    I'd also agree that things like the T95 and overpowered machine pistols are far worse than Assassin or anything else to do with perks. Heck, i'd prefer to see certain support streaks get neutered or removed to seeing Assassin changed. Stealth bombers and EMPs affect me far more often than Assassin does. And unlike high level assault streaks, which I can usually prevent by hunting down and killing anyone who's on a roll, there's nothing I can do to stop a support streak from being called in short of running support myself for EMP...

    Yeah, Assassin wouldn't crack my top 5 OP/need to change list. Maybe not even my top 10.

  • joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    Anyone on right now want to roll through the last six spec ops?

    Right now.

    does it?
  • 0Replace4Displace0Replace4Displace The best girls are ships and guns. Registered User regular
    dinoarus wrote:
    They made assassin immune to blackbirds.
    Then they made assassin vulnerable to EVERY offensive killstreak in the game. Which are much easier to get than blackbirds.

    Except the blackbird is a 12 support streak.

    u4OkoEI.png
  • joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    dinoarus wrote:
    They made assassin immune to blackbirds.
    Then they made assassin vulnerable to EVERY offensive killstreak in the game. Which are much easier to get than blackbirds.

    Except the blackbird is a 12 support streak.

    You can have like half of that within 30 seconds of a dom game though.

    does it?
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    dinoarus wrote:
    They made assassin immune to blackbirds.
    Then they made assassin vulnerable to EVERY offensive killstreak in the game. Which are much easier to get than blackbirds.

    Except the blackbird is a 12 support streak.

    no it isnt. the advanced uav is barely better than a regular uav. it doesn't pick up assassin, it can be shot down, and it really doesnt seem to last all that long.

    PSN: DW_Drummer22
    XBL: MightyManotaur
    PA: TheSecretSeventh
    wait....
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    FMG9s is worse than OMADCs

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited February 2012
    The MW3 perk set-up is the best we've seen. I have three small complaints for an otherwise perfect list:

    1)Please refill my nades Scav!
    2)Make explosions better and Blast Shield better, because...
    3)Stalker Pro shouldn't counter claymores and betties. That's Blast Shield's job. You turn a corner like a bat out of hell you get burned. With Blast Shield you should survive, but the guy who placed it should now know you're there and have a health advantage.

    Edit: Ok 4: Overkill should be better somehow. Like you run at your fastest weapon speed not slowest. Or you can have two lethals or two tacticals instead of 1 and 1. Or Warlord Pro. Yea, Warlord Pro. That'd be fantastic, and work with Recon.

    Imagine! Two noob tubed ARs, two 'texes and three flashes. Grrr baby very grrr!

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • mFiendmFiend l33t quarkscooper America's HatRegistered User regular
    Wait, I've been sleeping for the last 70 or so pages... someone mentioned changes to Hardline in MW3. Recent changes? Like in the last month? Or just general changes from Blops?

    I ran an update recently but never looked at patch notes.

    PS4: mFiend
  • mFiendmFiend l33t quarkscooper America's HatRegistered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote:
    FMG9s is worse than OMADCs

    That's just crazy talk.

    PS4: mFiend
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    mFiend wrote:
    Wait, I've been sleeping for the last 70 or so pages... someone mentioned changes to Hardline in MW3. Recent changes? Like in the last month? Or just general changes from Blops?

    I ran an update recently but never looked at patch notes.

    General changes. It's the first Hardline Pro that's worth it. Makes it competitive in its tier.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote:
    FMG9s is worse than OMADCs

    seek help, I think you have a mental deficiency.

    PSN: DW_Drummer22
    XBL: MightyManotaur
    PA: TheSecretSeventh
    wait....
  • sPider817sPider817 Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2012
    I wish mommy and daddy would stop fighting, you drove me to my alcoholism!
    I just think we all need to agree that CoD is a poorly made game and we are a huge collective of masochistic assholes. Yet, each year we happily drop our cash for a re-skin of a re-skin in hopes that they've honestly addressed the past issues. We will continue to do this no matter how much we say "we're done". Welcome to Hell, welcome to the flock.

    sPider817 on
    Battlenet: s314der#1279 XBL: s314der YouTube
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  • Mr.SunshineMr.Sunshine Registered User regular
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  • MrVyngaardMrVyngaard Live From New Etoile Straight Outta SosariaRegistered User regular
    sPider817 wrote:
    I wish mommy and daddy would stop fighting, you drove me to my alcoholism!
    I just think we all need to agree that CoD is a poorly made game and we are a huge collective of masochistic assholes. Yet, each year we happily drop our cash for a re-skin of a re-skin in hopes that they've honestly addressed the past issues. We will continue to do this no matter how much we say "we're done". Welcome to Hell, welcome to the flock.

    You sir, have won the thread and some internets.

    "now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
    camo_sig2.png
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    All I did was post a link to a video where Tmartn talks about Treyarch looking to make tweaks to Ghost, to improve gameplay. Not only are we still yelling and arguing about Ghost / Assassin two pages later, but we don't show any signs of slowing down or stopping. I'm not sure what other proof you need that it's a mechanic that needs to be adjusted.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    mFiend wrote:
    Burtletoy wrote:
    FMG9s is worse than OMADCs

    That's just crazy talk.

    I hate FMG9s as much as the next guy, but yeah; this is silly. OMADCs made MW2 unplayable, and there was no counter to it. FMG9s are ridiculous, but not game-breakingly so. If I can hold an enemy at arm's length (which tends to be a tactic we use a lot), they never even get a chance to use them. In MW2, guys could just stand in their spawns, firing tubes out randomly, and have a pretty good chance of going positive.

This discussion has been closed.