The only issue I can see people having is the lack of a alternate Upper Hand proc'ing ability. Right now, after the initial Shoot First, you rely solely on Blaster Whip to proc stacks of your UH buff. And because you want a stack of 2 up at all times AND Pugnacity rolling at all times this limits your use of Wounding Shots.
Question here from a 24 level scrapper. Is it not better to spend the upper hands on cheap shots whevever they are up? I pretty much just blaster whip to get UH and then immediately spend it on cheap shot if I already have pugnacity up. I'm guessing this changes? If so, with cheap shot having no cooldown why wouldn't I just keep throwing them if I have UH. Is the 2% better than the damage coming from cheap shot?
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Lightning Barrier? Seeping Darkness for some free crit? If you're not ever ever going to use shock, isn't any bonus going to be better than having those 2 in Chain Shock?
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Lightning Barrier? Seeping Darkness for some free crit? If you're not ever ever going to use shock, isn't any bonus going to be better than having those 2 in Chain Shock?
If you did that, you wouldn't be able to get up to Creeping Death.
Well, looking at that tree, if Shock is worthless, I'd move the 3 points out of that, put 1 in either Oppressing Force or Sith Defiance just to open the next tier then throw those 2 free points anywhere you want. Subversion, Devour, or Lightning Barrier probably.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Well, looking at that tree, if Shock is worthless, I'd move the 3 points out of that, put 1 in either Oppressing Force or Sith Defiance just to open the next tier then throw those 2 free points anywhere you want. Subversion, Devour, or Lightning Barrier probably.
None of those three choices are valid.
Like, not that they're suboptimal or anything, but they're actually literally mechanically not choices you can make.
Well, looking at that tree, if Shock is worthless, I'd move the 3 points out of that, put 1 in either Oppressing Force or Sith Defiance just to open the next tier then throw those 2 free points anywhere you want. Subversion, Devour, or Lightning Barrier probably.
None of those three choices are valid.
Like, not that they're suboptimal or anything, but they're actually literally mechanically not choices you can make.
You're right, I wasn't paying attention to that skill gap at 4th tier.
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
and the chain shock talent points are utterly wasted since you should never ever ever be casting shock
I dunno, with two Voltaic Slashes it hits pretty hard and is very cheap. It seems that's the only worthwhile spec to use it in, though. In addition, if you have explosive strikes (the +crit from force crits), it procs off EITHER double-shock critical, and with 30% crit, it means that it will be up for a fair amount of any given fight.
and the chain shock talent points are utterly wasted since you should never ever ever be casting shock
I dunno, with two Voltaic Slashes it hits pretty hard and is very cheap. It seems that's the only worthwhile spec to use it in, though. In addition, if you have explosive strikes (the +crit from force crits), it procs off EITHER double-shock critical, and with 30% crit, it means that it will be up for a fair amount of any given fight.
Shock is fine for deception specs because its so cheap and you're using mostly maul / thrash(voltiac)/ discharge. But they are talking about a pretty deep madness build... also, a sorcerer build. So really deception comparisions are irrelevant to the discussion.
cptrugged on
0
Options
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
tried a full lightning spec as a reward for levelling in madness all the way to 40
holy shit it is so much weaker and i really missed having death field
0
Options
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
So has anyone really tried the trooper shared tree? I'm vaguely interested in hearing if and how it works.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
So what's the word on secondary stats for a Sentinel? Specifically, a Combat specced one.
I've been mainly going with Crit and Surge so far.
Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
I've been told the shared tree is the tree of choice for leveling DPS Vanguard/Powertech, since the middle tree evidently takes awhile to come into its own.
As a Commando/Merc I wouldn't touch it though. Grav Round/Tracer Missile is just that good.
0
Options
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
So what's the word on secondary stats for a Sentinel? Specifically, a Combat specced one.
I've been mainly going with Crit and Surge so far.
This is for any Sentinel: First, 100% accuracy on your character sheet (for 110% accuracy on specials), then 250 Surge and 400 Crit rating, which is about when their diminishing returns kick in hard, then Power while trying to get Crit and Surge evenly to avoid diminishing returns. If you start getting extra accuracy, don't worry about it since it still increases the chance of your off hand hitting.
I'd actually go with this setup for any ranged/melee dps class.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
0
Options
Spenzkriegeh's a pretty cool guyRegistered Userregular
So has anyone really tried the trooper shared tree? I'm vaguely interested in hearing if and how it works.
For a level 50 Commando I don't see the advantage over Gunnery. Especially for PvE. However, Trident (Vanguard, to jog your memory) is going to give it a shot, I believe, after his tanking run through EV tonight. When we move onto HM OPs as a guild an emphasis on having more DPS and a well geared tank will be priority.
As both grenades provide good attack power and are both instant cast... I can see a huge advantage to that tree in PvP. I can also see a 10/31 split for a Vanguard being a pretty decent DPS/off-tank like how a 31/10 split between Gunnery/CM still makes you a half-decent medic as you retain 2 heals and you're already build around crit/surge. Pulling off a 4.5k heal in an Ops on a healer who is about to faceplant is a good feeling.
The ability to off-tank, for a Vanguard, would be useful in instances:
where in EV if your only tank is mind-trapped *bam* you hit Ion Cell and the healers redirect to you. You aren't a fully fledged tank but you're definitely the most geared for it. I was even able to tank Soa as a Commando for long enough to pull off the final pylon drop we needed thanks to good healing and my damge reduction shield. I think for 15 seconds I was mitigating ~68% damage?
Assault spec for vanguard is fun. It's much more of a medium range skirmisher type build than the other two trees which are more melee focused. Stockstrike does give more damage if you work it in, but isn't completely necessary for a rotation. You can kite within 10m with only a small damage decrease for being out of melee. It's much like a shorter ranged WOW hunter before steady strike became a major part of their rotation.
I don't know how to build the spec, but I know my buddy who used to do full TK switched to it, and his DPS is berserk now. The combination of the double speed ticking TK throw, almost every TK throw proccing an instant cast TK wave, etc. is all just ridiculous.
Idea is to use plasma cell, grav round, HIB, and incendiary round and ignore charged bolts and full auto. Basically, as much tech and elemental damage as possible. Lose out on more frequent and free HIBs, but grav round gets +10% acc as tech and gives 20% armor debuff for grouping vs charged bolts. Never tried the assault tree, so I don't know how well the ability DPS compares to full gunnery or how important that HIB is to keeping the DOT up.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Seems a little unfocused and lacking compared to a full Gunnery build to me. Losing out on Cell Charger also seems pretty huge for ammo consistency.
Also, even if you're not talented for it, it's basically never a good idea to ignore Full Auto because of how ridiculously ammo efficient it is. Even without the benefit of Cell Charger it's a nearly ammo-neutral attack. Likewise at that point I think you'd be better off taking the two points out of Nightvision Scope, which does nothing for your DPS, and putting at least 2 points into Ionic Accelerator (if not three, by taking point point out of Rapid Recharge)
I dunno, Gunnery is just so incredibly good from start to finish that I'd have a rough time convincing myself to skimp on it.
Just got to 50 on Berserker, my Marauder. Leveled the last 3-4 levels on pvp, so came into 50 with a full Rage Spec. Considering respeccing to more pve damage. I played annihilation for a bit, but didn't really like the constant upkeep on the bleeds and what not. Is carnage way more pve dps than rage? I wish I had a dps meter, or even combat log to help me decide.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Just got to 50 on Berserker, my Marauder. Leveled the last 3-4 levels on pvp, so came into 50 with a full Rage Spec. Considering respeccing to more pve damage. I played annihilation for a bit, but didn't really like the constant upkeep on the bleeds and what not. Is carnage way more pve dps than rage? I wish I had a dps meter, or even combat log to help me decide.
Carnage is much better dps than Rage, and a lot less micromanagement than Annihilation (from personal experience). I'd recommend it, I'm playing the Sentinel equivalent (Combat) and love it.
Is my current spec. Its a bit of a pve/pvp mix. Move the points in Malice to Unbound (Force Camo removes roots/snares) for a more pvp focused build.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Idea is to use plasma cell, grav round, HIB, and incendiary round and ignore charged bolts and full auto. Basically, as much tech and elemental damage as possible. Lose out on more frequent and free HIBs, but grav round gets +10% acc as tech and gives 20% armor debuff for grouping vs charged bolts. Never tried the assault tree, so I don't know how well the ability DPS compares to full gunnery or how important that HIB is to keeping the DOT up.
I have tried this spec (though only 13 points in. Rest is useless). Instead of spamming Grav round/Full Auto, you will be focusing on keeping up your dots. Your rotation becomes more of a priority system where you spend most of your time spamming Hammer Shot for the Plasma Dot (which procs a lot. Heard of a 42% chance with Hammer Shot).
Ammo-wise you will struggle a bit. High Friction Bolts will never make you ammo efficient, it is merely a band-aid on a gaping wound. You will use Recharge Cells somewhat more often than usual with this build.
Damage wise you're going to be happy. Instead of BIG HITS OMG!, you are going to see smaller hits and whittle down your targets. In my experience the amount of time is the same, but the experience is different. You won't have the ammo to spam Grav Round, but you aren't tied down to a stationary position throughout the fight. Kiting around an elite/similar target and spamming Hammer Shot and an incendiary round once in a while is a viable strategy and one I have used plenty of times.
Just got to 50 on Berserker, my Marauder. Leveled the last 3-4 levels on pvp, so came into 50 with a full Rage Spec. Considering respeccing to more pve damage. I played annihilation for a bit, but didn't really like the constant upkeep on the bleeds and what not. Is carnage way more pve dps than rage? I wish I had a dps meter, or even combat log to help me decide.
My buddy levelled and stayed Combat(Carnage) until 50 and hard modes, then switched to Watchman(Annihilation) and his DPS went up quite a bit. The ramp up time is slower so on trash and AoE it's not as good, but his single target on bosses pretty much skyrocketed.
0
Options
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
So, gunnery commandos. Lack of combat log aside, has there been any theorycrafting on rotations? I don't have a solid stick to this forever rotation, but I've been opening with 3 grav rounds to get a max stack on the vortex debuff, followed by hitting Full Auto/HIB/Demo round as they go off cooldown, using charged bolts when the vortex stack isn't close to expiring, with the odd grav round thrown in to keep the stack up, and an occasional hammer shot if I think far enough ahead to try and keep ammo regen high.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
My commando is still low level and a healer, but I would think you'd only use HIB when you get to a 5 stack of the buff that grav round gives you, then you'd use Demo on CD. As for full auto, it's probably good enough to use on CD but based on the talents it seems like you might hold it until the thing procs that makes it hit even harder. And because of the HIB buff you get from grav round, I'd think you'd always use that and not charged bolts.
Again, this is just based on having looked at the tree, so I can't speak from experience.
0
Options
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
My commando is still low level and a healer, but I would think you'd only use HIB when you get to a 5 stack of the buff that grav round gives you, then you'd use Demo on CD. As for full auto, it's probably good enough to use on CD but based on the talents it seems like you might hold it until the thing procs that makes it hit even harder. And because of the HIB buff you get from grav round, I'd think you'd always use that and not charged bolts.
Again, this is just based on having looked at the tree, so I can't speak from experience.
If full auto finishes its CD without Curtain of Fire procing, may as well use it so when CoF DOES proc, it finishes the cooldown. As a channeled attack, it gives you time to regen ammo.
As for using Charged Bolts, it doesn't give the HIB buff stack, but it theoretically does more damage than grav round shot for shot, though it is also white damage instead of yellow damage, so there's probably differences beyond the tooltip damage numbers being different.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited January 2012
In action, I find that Grav Round does more than Charged Bolts.
It may have something to do with weapon vs kinetic, I dunno. It's just what I've noticed though.
I'm not quite high enough level to comment on a solid rotation though, since I have neither Cell Charger or Demo Round, but I usually start off with 3x Grav Round, then HIB, followed by Full Auto into more Grav Rounds
I find that generally speaking, you don't want to go Grav Round straight into Full Auto because on cast time abilities the cost occurs at the end, whereas channeled abilities take the cost at the beginning of the channel. So if you do Grav Round into Full Auto you instantly drop 5 ammo, which can easily drop you into a slower regen state.
I try to make sure that Full Auto is preceeded by either HIB (only costs 1 ammo and puts a GCD inbetween), or Hammer Shot. (Free + GCD)
EDIT: Was off on my math a bit because I was posting from my phone at work, Grav Round->Full Auto is an instant 4 ammo dump. Not 5. Still bad though.
Maddoc on
0
Options
AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
In my case, Tracer Missle (grav round) does do more damage than Rail shot (HIB) in most cases, even with a full stack of 5.
However, Rail Shot is actually free instant DPS once you get the 4 piece, so that makes it very valuable to use.
Unload (full auto) does the most damage as long as it's a procced unload. Regular unload isn't as good as a tracer missle.
0
Options
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Having looked closer at things, I noticed that charged bolts isn't included in the ability that gives ammo back on a crit, so I've basically dropped that shit. Still on my bar though, because I'm too lazy to reorganize the thing.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
0
Options
DarcsteelWildcardNC United StatesRegistered Userregular
Just got to 50 on Berserker, my Marauder. Leveled the last 3-4 levels on pvp, so came into 50 with a full Rage Spec. Considering respeccing to more pve damage. I played annihilation for a bit, but didn't really like the constant upkeep on the bleeds and what not. Is carnage way more pve dps than rage? I wish I had a dps meter, or even combat log to help me decide.
My buddy levelled and stayed Combat(Carnage) until 50 and hard modes, then switched to Watchman(Annihilation) and his DPS went up quite a bit. The ramp up time is slower so on trash and AoE it's not as good, but his single target on bosses pretty much skyrocketed.
The Fact that Annihilation can use berserk to make all of it's bleeds crits gives it an incredible edge in single target damage and sustained damage. I've run annihilation from start and groups can cause me some trouble I always perform better against bosses. The damage from the constant bleeds is well worth the effort nad honestly the management is not as bad as you might think. Just rememebr Deadly Saber is critical to an Annihilation build (makes the next three physical attacks cause a bleed effect)
Some confusion I'd like to get cleared up, please. I'm currently level 20, Sentinel, going Watchman. Are Cauterize and Overload Saber my only sources of burn damage?
Some confusion I'd like to get cleared up, please. I'm currently level 20, Sentinel, going Watchman. Are Cauterize and Overload Saber my only sources of burn damage?
Yes. Also note that the talent that increases Burn critical damage is bugged and isn't functional at the moment.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
So, I've been 50 for a bit on my Gunslinger, done a fair bit of PvP and PvE (more PvE). Right now I'm geared in a mix of Columi and Rakata, with a few hold over daily mod's in the oranges I still have (boots and chest). I've tried just about every spec open to the Gunslinger, and have finally started to settle in.
My perspective is that Dirty Fighting is the highly mobile "Focus on bleed damage, amplifying that, and then trying to burst people." It really hinges on sticking 4 skills (Vital, Shrap, Hemorrhaging, Wounding) on one guy. It's pretty good, but not optimal. It works well in PvP, no idea how it performs in end-game PvE. You can level with DF spec easily enough.
Sharpshooter is the classic spec. It can drop some pretty good damage, but is HUGELY energy intensive. I ran this for the longest time, it's traditional, successful, fine and dandy. Just requires a good rotation in PvE. I do not really feel this is a good PvP spec, since it renders you immobile and the core skills (Charged, Speed, Aimed) take far to long to apply damage.
Saboteur, I really feel like this is "the spec". Yes, a part of it comes from it being slightly new to me, and a part of it comes from how ridiculous it can be. Sabo (or as I call it, Grenadier) spec is predicated on AoE damage, and your grenades. At face value, Shooter looks better. Do a little digging, and Saboteur is a much more energy efficient built, that generates very similar damage to a single target, and ridiculous damage to groups. Since there is no log to really get any hard facts, I can simply say this:
In PvP Sabo build just wrecks face. You can totally mess up your rotation, or just hammer Thermal Detonator and easily wrack up 200k in damage and dozens of kills. In PvE, against trash, you'll quickly wipe them out, and against bosses you have just as many tools as Shooter build, while being very energy efficient (AoE's are 30% more damaging for the same cost, core single target skills have reduced costs, etc).
Sorry to glow, but Sabo is really the hidden build. All slingers should be sabo (unless you really hate grenades).
I am going to actually conter Anon here. Just a few parts. Sabo is one of those builds you have to be at least 40 before it shines so not a great one to level with. Dirty Fighting is a great pvp spec due to the mobility, the aoe slow and just in general being able to use defensive screen and such more often makes you a really great pvp character. I actually do fine as a sniper but that requires knowing a map and using it to be successful. Also abusing your instant charge shot and ballistic dampeners.
Sharpshooter is the classic spec. It can drop some pretty good damage, but is HUGELY energy intensive.
Sharpshooter is very efficient with a good rotation. I rarely drop below two bars on long fights. Crouch giving you one more energy a tick adds up fast. Also timing a rotation is great for keeping you going. The only time I start dropping down is if I am constantly standing up and crouching in a hard fight to increase my burst dps. In reality I hit my cool head as a sharp shooter compared to my sabo and DF builds.
Though Sabo is a great build, just not for leveling, it just doesn't hold up to the speed you can solo as a sharpshooter when you get your healer or even DF before hand. Both work really well for leveling. Though I do miss my fast grenades for pvp, love those things.
0
Options
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Yeah, as a Sniper I haven't really felt that Sharpshooter/Marksman is energy intensive.
Maybe if you're trying to mix in Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge and Corrosive Dart/Vital Shot, but past a certain point you'll probably be leaving those out of your normal rotation. (Basically, once you get Followthrough/Trickshot you won't really have the time or incentive to use either of them)
Posts
Question here from a 24 level scrapper. Is it not better to spend the upper hands on cheap shots whevever they are up? I pretty much just blaster whip to get UH and then immediately spend it on cheap shot if I already have pugnacity up. I'm guessing this changes? If so, with cheap shot having no cooldown why wouldn't I just keep throwing them if I have UH. Is the 2% better than the damage coming from cheap shot?
Oh, the ones I've seen posted in this thread go up further in Lightning than that
That's actually rather decent, though I'd hardly call it a "hybrid", since it puts 28 points in Madness. It's basically just a PvE Madness build.
What's the reasoning behind dumping 3 into chain shock, then? We only need 1 to get to the next tier.
If you did that, you wouldn't be able to get up to Creeping Death.
None of those three choices are valid.
Like, not that they're suboptimal or anything, but they're actually literally mechanically not choices you can make.
You're right, I wasn't paying attention to that skill gap at 4th tier.
I dunno, with two Voltaic Slashes it hits pretty hard and is very cheap. It seems that's the only worthwhile spec to use it in, though. In addition, if you have explosive strikes (the +crit from force crits), it procs off EITHER double-shock critical, and with 30% crit, it means that it will be up for a fair amount of any given fight.
Shock is fine for deception specs because its so cheap and you're using mostly maul / thrash(voltiac)/ discharge. But they are talking about a pretty deep madness build... also, a sorcerer build. So really deception comparisions are irrelevant to the discussion.
holy shit it is so much weaker and i really missed having death field
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I've been mainly going with Crit and Surge so far.
As a Commando/Merc I wouldn't touch it though. Grav Round/Tracer Missile is just that good.
assault spec is pretty decent and a more 'ranged' tree than tactics (you still need to use stockstrike as part of your rotation so enjoy!)
but tactics has the most important talent for levelling out of any tree; +15% movespeed that stacks with sprint
you want that bad boy
This is for any Sentinel: First, 100% accuracy on your character sheet (for 110% accuracy on specials), then 250 Surge and 400 Crit rating, which is about when their diminishing returns kick in hard, then Power while trying to get Crit and Surge evenly to avoid diminishing returns. If you start getting extra accuracy, don't worry about it since it still increases the chance of your off hand hitting.
I'd actually go with this setup for any ranged/melee dps class.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
For a level 50 Commando I don't see the advantage over Gunnery. Especially for PvE. However, Trident (Vanguard, to jog your memory) is going to give it a shot, I believe, after his tanking run through EV tonight. When we move onto HM OPs as a guild an emphasis on having more DPS and a well geared tank will be priority.
As both grenades provide good attack power and are both instant cast... I can see a huge advantage to that tree in PvP. I can also see a 10/31 split for a Vanguard being a pretty decent DPS/off-tank like how a 31/10 split between Gunnery/CM still makes you a half-decent medic as you retain 2 heals and you're already build around crit/surge. Pulling off a 4.5k heal in an Ops on a healer who is about to faceplant is a good feeling.
The ability to off-tank, for a Vanguard, would be useful in instances:
RC: Ais
I'm pure telekinetics now and feeling like something's missing.
Idea is to use plasma cell, grav round, HIB, and incendiary round and ignore charged bolts and full auto. Basically, as much tech and elemental damage as possible. Lose out on more frequent and free HIBs, but grav round gets +10% acc as tech and gives 20% armor debuff for grouping vs charged bolts. Never tried the assault tree, so I don't know how well the ability DPS compares to full gunnery or how important that HIB is to keeping the DOT up.
Also, even if you're not talented for it, it's basically never a good idea to ignore Full Auto because of how ridiculously ammo efficient it is. Even without the benefit of Cell Charger it's a nearly ammo-neutral attack. Likewise at that point I think you'd be better off taking the two points out of Nightvision Scope, which does nothing for your DPS, and putting at least 2 points into Ionic Accelerator (if not three, by taking point point out of Rapid Recharge)
I dunno, Gunnery is just so incredibly good from start to finish that I'd have a rough time convincing myself to skimp on it.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Carnage is much better dps than Rage, and a lot less micromanagement than Annihilation (from personal experience). I'd recommend it, I'm playing the Sentinel equivalent (Combat) and love it.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bcZhGMbddrorsZG.1
Is my current spec. Its a bit of a pve/pvp mix. Move the points in Malice to Unbound (Force Camo removes roots/snares) for a more pvp focused build.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
I have tried this spec (though only 13 points in. Rest is useless). Instead of spamming Grav round/Full Auto, you will be focusing on keeping up your dots. Your rotation becomes more of a priority system where you spend most of your time spamming Hammer Shot for the Plasma Dot (which procs a lot. Heard of a 42% chance with Hammer Shot).
Ammo-wise you will struggle a bit. High Friction Bolts will never make you ammo efficient, it is merely a band-aid on a gaping wound. You will use Recharge Cells somewhat more often than usual with this build.
Damage wise you're going to be happy. Instead of BIG HITS OMG!, you are going to see smaller hits and whittle down your targets. In my experience the amount of time is the same, but the experience is different. You won't have the ammo to spam Grav Round, but you aren't tied down to a stationary position throughout the fight. Kiting around an elite/similar target and spamming Hammer Shot and an incendiary round once in a while is a viable strategy and one I have used plenty of times.
My buddy levelled and stayed Combat(Carnage) until 50 and hard modes, then switched to Watchman(Annihilation) and his DPS went up quite a bit. The ramp up time is slower so on trash and AoE it's not as good, but his single target on bosses pretty much skyrocketed.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Again, this is just based on having looked at the tree, so I can't speak from experience.
As for using Charged Bolts, it doesn't give the HIB buff stack, but it theoretically does more damage than grav round shot for shot, though it is also white damage instead of yellow damage, so there's probably differences beyond the tooltip damage numbers being different.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
It may have something to do with weapon vs kinetic, I dunno. It's just what I've noticed though.
I'm not quite high enough level to comment on a solid rotation though, since I have neither Cell Charger or Demo Round, but I usually start off with 3x Grav Round, then HIB, followed by Full Auto into more Grav Rounds
I find that generally speaking, you don't want to go Grav Round straight into Full Auto because on cast time abilities the cost occurs at the end, whereas channeled abilities take the cost at the beginning of the channel. So if you do Grav Round into Full Auto you instantly drop 5 ammo, which can easily drop you into a slower regen state.
I try to make sure that Full Auto is preceeded by either HIB (only costs 1 ammo and puts a GCD inbetween), or Hammer Shot. (Free + GCD)
EDIT: Was off on my math a bit because I was posting from my phone at work, Grav Round->Full Auto is an instant 4 ammo dump. Not 5. Still bad though.
However, Rail Shot is actually free instant DPS once you get the 4 piece, so that makes it very valuable to use.
Unload (full auto) does the most damage as long as it's a procced unload. Regular unload isn't as good as a tracer missle.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The Fact that Annihilation can use berserk to make all of it's bleeds crits gives it an incredible edge in single target damage and sustained damage. I've run annihilation from start and groups can cause me some trouble I always perform better against bosses. The damage from the constant bleeds is well worth the effort nad honestly the management is not as bad as you might think. Just rememebr Deadly Saber is critical to an Annihilation build (makes the next three physical attacks cause a bleed effect)
Yes. Also note that the talent that increases Burn critical damage is bugged and isn't functional at the moment.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
My perspective is that Dirty Fighting is the highly mobile "Focus on bleed damage, amplifying that, and then trying to burst people." It really hinges on sticking 4 skills (Vital, Shrap, Hemorrhaging, Wounding) on one guy. It's pretty good, but not optimal. It works well in PvP, no idea how it performs in end-game PvE. You can level with DF spec easily enough.
Sharpshooter is the classic spec. It can drop some pretty good damage, but is HUGELY energy intensive. I ran this for the longest time, it's traditional, successful, fine and dandy. Just requires a good rotation in PvE. I do not really feel this is a good PvP spec, since it renders you immobile and the core skills (Charged, Speed, Aimed) take far to long to apply damage.
Saboteur, I really feel like this is "the spec". Yes, a part of it comes from it being slightly new to me, and a part of it comes from how ridiculous it can be. Sabo (or as I call it, Grenadier) spec is predicated on AoE damage, and your grenades. At face value, Shooter looks better. Do a little digging, and Saboteur is a much more energy efficient built, that generates very similar damage to a single target, and ridiculous damage to groups. Since there is no log to really get any hard facts, I can simply say this:
In PvP Sabo build just wrecks face. You can totally mess up your rotation, or just hammer Thermal Detonator and easily wrack up 200k in damage and dozens of kills. In PvE, against trash, you'll quickly wipe them out, and against bosses you have just as many tools as Shooter build, while being very energy efficient (AoE's are 30% more damaging for the same cost, core single target skills have reduced costs, etc).
Sorry to glow, but Sabo is really the hidden build. All slingers should be sabo (unless you really hate grenades).
This is where I think Anon is really wrong.
Sharpshooter is very efficient with a good rotation. I rarely drop below two bars on long fights. Crouch giving you one more energy a tick adds up fast. Also timing a rotation is great for keeping you going. The only time I start dropping down is if I am constantly standing up and crouching in a hard fight to increase my burst dps. In reality I hit my cool head as a sharp shooter compared to my sabo and DF builds.
Though Sabo is a great build, just not for leveling, it just doesn't hold up to the speed you can solo as a sharpshooter when you get your healer or even DF before hand. Both work really well for leveling. Though I do miss my fast grenades for pvp, love those things.
Maybe if you're trying to mix in Explosive Probe/Sabotage Charge and Corrosive Dart/Vital Shot, but past a certain point you'll probably be leaving those out of your normal rotation. (Basically, once you get Followthrough/Trickshot you won't really have the time or incentive to use either of them)